Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby sancarlos » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:28 am

You've had quite some fun experiences in your background, DC!
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Pruitt » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:55 am

Seriously. That is way beyond cool.
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Me, Thad, Mel and Dee Dee

Postby DC47 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:14 pm

Dee Dee and the best jazz band around in 1974 were indeed cool. But really only to the very small number of people who were/are really into jazz. This genre was even more dead back then than it is today.

In my limited teen high-school drop-out circle, that meant almost no one. I did the gig, went home, and it's possible that this is the first time I've mentioned the event to anyone else. The memory is so faded, I wondered just how real it was. So I searched the magical web, and what do you know -- they were just as amazing as I remembered. I know more about jazz now, so actually I find them even more amazing than I did 43 years ago. At the time, I was just desperately trying to play the fourth trombone part without being too audibly out of my league.

I was even more out of my league when face-to-face with the best singer I had ever heard, who was also the most stunningly beautiful woman I had ever met.

I suppose if Ms. Bridgwater hadn't been married to Cecil Bridgewater, one of the several great trumpet players in that band, my suave 17 year old self would have quickly won her over. But alas, it would have been dishonorable to sever that relationship. Band brotherhood, you know. So I stood down.

I can't find the sarcasm font, but you might read the last bit in that light.

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Re: Best musician I've played with

Postby howard » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:36 pm

DC47 wrote:Circa 1974 I played trombone one night with the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis band.


WOW!

The lead singer was a young Dee Dee Bridgewater. The band was astonishing; she blew my mind. She was also the most attractive woman I've ever met. Quite a night to remember at age 17.


fucking outstanding. Didn't realize you were such a serious player as a teenager (as well as serious musician)
Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

Those days are gone forever
Over a long time ago
Oh yeah…

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Me and Dee Dee

Postby DC47 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:33 pm

It was WOW for me too. The Thad Jones-Mel Lewis band is largely unknown now. But back then they were the best working big band around. Better than the far better known Basie and Ellington bands.

Not that this mattered, because big bands were so far out of the cool zone that people in my generation barely registered them as still existing. Because of the TV show, Lawrence Welk's band was the one most people thought of when "big band" came up. But of course, to a musician this was like comparing a crow to an eagle. Both are birds. But one is a bit more majestic.

To me, playing fourth trombone for one night somewhere northeast of NYC with Jones-Lewis was analogous to standing in the shadows next to the amps struggling to play the rhythm guitar part to Gimme Shelter while Keith, Mick Taylor and the other Mick tore it up out front on a Tuesday night in an anonymous Hartford auditorium. That is, I was very much a trivially small part of the event. But what an event! What a place to be for a 17 year-old drop-out wannabe jazz musician.

In stark contrast, my best gigs after this were playing Basie and Ellington and Miller charts at dances at Italian social clubs around metro NYC. The old timers loved to shake a rug to the dance music of their youth. I loved to play it. We got paid. But there wasn't much creativity. Soloing beyond the minimum of the recorded originals was not great for dancing. These were the very best nights. But they were vastly outnumbered by nights where my instrument was a handful of over-priced menus and a corkscrew. Or off-off-Broadway non-union pit orchestra gigs. Almost as bad as waiting tables.

After a year or so of this, I put down the trombone forever, and moved on to other things. Northern California, here I come.

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Rush2112 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:30 am

You're my fucking hero 22.

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Pruitt » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:46 am

Did you just see "Rumble?" (about Native rock musicians)

Was wondering if it's worth watching.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Rush2112 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Pruitt wrote:Did you just see "Rumble?" (about Native rock musicians)

Was wondering if it's worth watching.


No sir. I had sort of forgotten about Davis and saw him listed on an old-timey music blog I frequent so went a-listening.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby sancarlos » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:04 pm

I'd heard/read the name Jesse Ed Davis a lot, so I looked up his wiki. Man, the guy rubbed elbows with a lot of rock royalty. Alas, another casualty of the fast lifestyle.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby DC47 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:55 am

Jesse Ed Davis is one of those guys who seemed to frequently show up on record labels when I was wondering who played that sweet guitar line. Some of the legendary guitarists swore that he was someone they looked up to.

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One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby DC47 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:02 am

Lawrence Welk was always on the cutting edge of the counter-culture. We all took our cues from his show.

Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Pruitt » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 am

Catchy "Modern Spiritual!"
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Shirley » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:03 am

Ah, a different Dick Dale. I was confused. Still, that's pretty funny. It can't be possible that nobody who worked on the production knew what a "toke" is, right? Or was that term not well known at the time?
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby rass » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:29 am

DC47 wrote:Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


Trying to figure out if you're kidding, but google isn't helping because of Garcia's apocryphal involvement with the original recording. The second part seems less likely, so I'm leaning towards deep cut joke. Nice!
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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby EnochRoot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 am

rass wrote:
DC47 wrote:Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


Trying to figure out if you're kidding, but google isn't helping because of Garcia's apocryphal involvement with the original recording. The second part seems less likely, so I'm leaning towards deep cut joke. Nice!


Well, From the Mars Hotel was released in '74, and that video was from '71...

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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby rass » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:52 am

EnochRoot wrote:
rass wrote:
DC47 wrote:Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


Trying to figure out if you're kidding, but google isn't helping because of Garcia's apocryphal involvement with the original recording. The second part seems less likely, so I'm leaning towards deep cut joke. Nice!


Well, From the Mars Hotel was released in '74, and that video was from '71...


Like I said!
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Rush2112 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:15 pm

Love me some Mars Hotel...


also from '74

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby sancarlos » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm

That clip is from '74, but the song was on CSNY's Deja Vu, released in 1970. I remember because it was the first album I ever purchased.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Shirley » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:30 pm

Such a great album. Too bad Crosby (at least) is such an asshole and the guys hate each other. So much talent in that group.

Update - It's interesting to me that Neil took the guitar lead in that song. I assumed that Crosby would play lead, as it's essentially a solo song for him. Did he ever play lead in that band? I get that when you have Neil Young and Stephen Stills, you're never going to be the best guitarist on a song, but I just assumed they played lead on their own songs.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Rush2112 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:53 pm

Stephen Stills a good guitarist?

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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby DC47 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:16 pm

Well, it was a strange trip, in addition to being lengthy.
Last edited by DC47 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby DC47 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:50 pm

DC47 wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:
rass wrote:
DC47 wrote:Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


Trying to figure out if you're kidding, but google isn't helping because of Garcia's apocryphal involvement with the original recording. The second part seems less likely, so I'm leaning towards deep cut joke. Nice!


Well, From the Mars Hotel was released in '74, and that video was from '71...


Garcia played pedal on the B side to the One Toke single. Several Bay area musicians who played with him regularly (e.g., Jerry Garcia Band) did a lot of the backing tracks for the Tarkio album, which contained One Toke. Paul Butterfield was on some cuts -- but on electric guitar rather than harp.

Gail and Dale were part of the Acid Tests in SF, opening for the Dead. That's where they first hung out with Brewer and Shipley. However, they fell out with Kesey over the poster controversy (they were pro-Mouse) and politics (pro Trotsky). A few turns of the musical wheel later (Blue Cheer, The Seekers, replacing Lou Reed with the Velvet Underground) and they were singing with Welk as their regular gig.

Mars Hotel was indeed released in '74. But as insiders would surely know, the tracks for several songs were laid down in winter of '71 at a motel near Joshua Tree. Gail and Dale were part of that wild scene, which included Gram Parsons, The Kingston Trio, and "The Happy Norwegian" Myron Floren, who had the accordian chair in the Welk band. He introduces Gail and Dale in that video clip of them singing One Toke. He struggled to get the words out, obviously wasted.

If you listen hard, you can hear Floren in the left channel laying down some sweet accordian riffs on Unbroken Chain and Scarlett Begonias. Gail and Dale hated how Donna sang, so they split that scene, though they continued to jam with Garcia when he was playing outside the Dead. Floren did as well, sometimes credited on recordings as "Merl Saunders" on "keyboards" (clearly an accordian run through a rotating Leslie speaker) due to contractual complications due to his role in the Welk band.

In the late 70s Gail and Dale parted ways. Gail moved to a womyn's collective in the hills of Mendocino where she was part of a choral group that played songs for exclusively female audiences that contained no male references. She also worked as a logger.

Dale moved back to San Francisco where he changed his name to "Jello Biafra" and formed the group Dead Kennedys that had some success in the burgeoning punk scene. It's a little known fact that the first word in the band name was a reference to his time playing with the Grateful Dead. Dale collaborated with his old friend from the Joshua Tree days, Robert Hunter, on several songs, including "Nazi Punks Fuck Off," in which Hunter's opaque surrealism was highlighted. Garcia played guitar, english horn, and pedal steel banjo on a few tracks on the first three albums.

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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby Rush2112 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:51 pm

DC47 wrote: Dale collaborated with his old friend from the Joshua Tree days, Robert Hunter, on several songs, including "Nazi Punks Fuck Off," in which Hunter's opaque surrealism was highlighted.


Funny you mention Hunter's collaborations, I found this during a deep dive the other night...



Robert Hunter on vocals.

and if you're familiar with that Terrapin Station Suite. Hunter's fuller version* is interesting as it ties in more of the mythology from other Hunter/Garcia tunes
The version below contains part 1 (the part familiar to deadheads, aside from Terrapin Flyer which is a drum/percussion piece) and pieces of part 2.



*there is also the FULL version but it's never been recorded, supposedly it was performed by Phil Lesh's sons band, but to the best of my knowledge not recorded.
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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby rass » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:16 am

DC47 wrote:
DC47 wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:
rass wrote:
DC47 wrote:Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


Trying to figure out if you're kidding, but google isn't helping because of Garcia's apocryphal involvement with the original recording. The second part seems less likely, so I'm leaning towards deep cut joke. Nice!


Well, From the Mars Hotel was released in '74, and that video was from '71...


Garcia played pedal on the B side to the One Toke single. Several Bay area musicians who played with him regularly (e.g., Jerry Garcia Band) did a lot of the backing tracks for the Tarkio album, which contained One Toke. Paul Butterfield was on some cuts -- but on electric guitar rather than harp.

Gail and Dale were part of the Acid Tests in SF, opening for the Dead. That's where they first hung out with Brewer and Shipley. However, they fell out with Kesey over the poster controversy (they were pro-Mouse) and politics (pro Trotsky). A few turns of the musical wheel later (Blue Cheer, The Seekers, replacing Lou Reed with the Velvet Underground) and they were singing with Welk as their regular gig.

Mars Hotel was indeed released in '74. But as insiders would surely know, the tracks for several songs were laid down in winter of '71 at a motel near Joshua Tree. Gail and Dale were part of that wild scene, which included Gram Parsons, The Kingston Trio, and "The Happy Norwegian" Myron Floren, who had the accordian chair in the Welk band. He introduces Gail and Dale in that video clip of them singing One Toke. He struggled to get the words out, obviously wasted.

If you listen hard, you can hear Floren in the left channel laying down some sweet accordian riffs on Unbroken Chain and Scarlett Begonias. Gail and Dale hated how Donna sang, so they split that scene, though they continued to jam with Garcia when he was playing outside the Dead. Floren did as well, sometimes credited on recordings as "Merl Saunders" on "keyboards" (clearly an accordian run through a rotating Leslie speaker) due to contractual complications due to his role in the Welk band.

In the late 70s Gail and Dale parted ways. Gail moved to a womyn's collective in the hills of Mendocino where she was part of a choral group that played songs for exclusively female audiences that contained no male references. She also worked as a logger.

Dale moved back to San Francisco where he changed his name to "Jello Biafra" and formed the group Dead Kennedys that had some success in the burgeoning punk scene. It's a little known fact that the first word in the band name was a reference to his time playing with the Grateful Dead. Dale collaborated with his old friend from the Joshua Tree days, Robert Hunter, on several songs, including "Nazi Punks Fuck Off," in which Hunter's opaque surrealism was highlighted. Garcia played guitar, english horn, and pedal steel banjo on a few tracks on the first three albums.



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Re: One of the newer songs - a modern spiritual

Postby EnochRoot » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:45 am

DC47 wrote:
DC47 wrote:
EnochRoot wrote:
rass wrote:
DC47 wrote:Just off-screen is Jerry Garcia, sitting in with Lawrence's band to play that nice pedal steel part. He was reciprocating after his friends Gail and Dale sang background vocals on several tracks on the Grateful Dead's "Mars Hotel."


Trying to figure out if you're kidding, but google isn't helping because of Garcia's apocryphal involvement with the original recording. The second part seems less likely, so I'm leaning towards deep cut joke. Nice!


Well, From the Mars Hotel was released in '74, and that video was from '71...


Garcia played pedal on the B side to the One Toke single. Several Bay area musicians who played with him regularly (e.g., Jerry Garcia Band) did a lot of the backing tracks for the Tarkio album, which contained One Toke. Paul Butterfield was on some cuts -- but on electric guitar rather than harp.

Gail and Dale were part of the Acid Tests in SF, opening for the Dead. That's where they first hung out with Brewer and Shipley. However, they fell out with Kesey over the poster controversy (they were pro-Mouse) and politics (pro Trotsky). A few turns of the musical wheel later (Blue Cheer, The Seekers, replacing Lou Reed with the Velvet Underground) and they were singing with Welk as their regular gig.

Mars Hotel was indeed released in '74. But as insiders would surely know, the tracks for several songs were laid down in winter of '71 at a motel near Joshua Tree. Gail and Dale were part of that wild scene, which included Gram Parsons, The Kingston Trio, and "The Happy Norwegian" Myron Floren, who had the accordian chair in the Welk band. He introduces Gail and Dale in that video clip of them singing One Toke. He struggled to get the words out, obviously wasted.

If you listen hard, you can hear Floren in the left channel laying down some sweet accordian riffs on Unbroken Chain and Scarlett Begonias. Gail and Dale hated how Donna sang, so they split that scene, though they continued to jam with Garcia when he was playing outside the Dead. Floren did as well, sometimes credited on recordings as "Merl Saunders" on "keyboards" (clearly an accordian run through a rotating Leslie speaker) due to contractual complications due to his role in the Welk band.

In the late 70s Gail and Dale parted ways. Gail moved to a womyn's collective in the hills of Mendocino where she was part of a choral group that played songs for exclusively female audiences that contained no male references. She also worked as a logger.

Dale moved back to San Francisco where he changed his name to "Jello Biafra" and formed the group Dead Kennedys that had some success in the burgeoning punk scene. It's a little known fact that the first word in the band name was a reference to his time playing with the Grateful Dead. Dale collaborated with his old friend from the Joshua Tree days, Robert Hunter, on several songs, including "Nazi Punks Fuck Off," in which Hunter's opaque surrealism was highlighted. Garcia played guitar, english horn, and pedal steel banjo on a few tracks on the first three albums.


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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Shirley » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:13 pm

Rush2112 wrote:Stephen Stills a good guitarist?



Pretty impressive. He is ridiculously talented (go back to the beginning of that video for a great example of his playing, songwriting, and voice all at once). I was reading about them yesterday and was reminded that he played nearly all the instruments on the CSN album as well.
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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby sancarlos » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:06 am

When the bible is a bottle
And the hardwood floor is home
When morning comes twice a day, or not at all
If I break in two, will you put me back together?
When this puzzle's figured out, will you still be around?

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Re: Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

Postby Rush2112 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:03 pm

Killer.



The Gurvitz brothers band prior to the Baker Gurvitz Army. Buddy Miles plays a few tunes on this.
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