The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:32 am

P.D.X. wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:29 am
Speaking of, why haven't I seen any snarky responses from Norwegians yet??
Too busy sitting on a trillion-dollar wealth fund and laughing at us.
"As the saying goes: The house always wins in Vegas," Schmidt said. "The city doesn't look like this because the visitors are winners."

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by EnochRoot » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:47 am

Unsourced, and they misspelled guaranteed...But it’s a collection of reasons as to why Norway has little to no reason to emigrate here.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:49 am

We also have >10 gun deaths annually.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by sancarlos » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:51 am

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Johnnie » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:07 pm

P.D.X. wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:29 am
Speaking of, why haven't I seen any snarky responses from Norwegians yet??
Here you go:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a58 ... 0dc4c5b6dc
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:11 pm

brian wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:16 pm
The Republican establishment isn't dumb. I wish they were, but they're not. They know Trump is an anchor around their necks and they're shitting their pants about the election in November. That's another reason they're ramping up the voter suppression to new levels. But even that won't be enough to stop what's coming.

They might look at getting the tax bill passed as a win and call it a Congress since the outcry over dumping Trump means almost no legislation gets passed until the next Congress. If they cut him loose around the end of the year the media circus starts to die down around the end of January with still enough time to maybe pull some of their asses out of the fire. (If they were REALLY smart they could impeach him over the Russia scandal and they would have the benefit of looking like they really care about democracy to low-information voters, but I know they don't have the spine for that. Also it would take too long given the timeline above. With the 25th Amendment solution, he could literally be out of office by end of the day.)

I really, really, truly get that Trump remains popular with a decent-sized group of the base, but those people are going to vote Republican no matter what. They're the same ones that are still voting for Moore in Alabama. But cutting Trump lose helps potentially bring moderates back before it's too late.

It's the smart move. I just don't know if the GOP has the stones to pull off what some could consider a coup d'etat.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 pm

"Any day now" is never going to come with Republicans. It never was and there's less than zero reason to think it will. They'll distance themselves the second he's dead or quits or is voted out, but until then, they'll obey like the good little authoritarians they are.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by rass » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:18 pm

I felt aswirl with warm secretions.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

mister d wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 pm
"Any day now" is never going to come with Republicans. It never was and there's less than zero reason to think it will. They'll distance themselves the second he's dead or quits or is voted out, but until then, they'll obey like the good little authoritarians they are.
Agreed. It’s also worth noting that the GOP Congressional delegation has been getting more and more conservative for years now due to gerrymandering, aggressive primary challenges and other factors. So while the GOP may be embarrassed by Trump’s crassness, I doubt many of them disagree with the underlying sentiments or policies. Rather than waiting for the “reasonable Republicans” to ride to the rescue, the Democrats need to aggressively tie every single GOP elected official to Trump’s racism, ignorance and kleptocracy.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 pm

mister d wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:14 pm
"Any day now" is never going to come with Republicans. It never was and there's less than zero reason to think it will. They'll distance themselves the second he's dead or quits or is voted out, but until then, they'll obey like the good little authoritarians they are.
My assessment still remains true though. In public they play the good Nazi, but in private they're freaking out over what a disaster Trump is. They know they're in for a destruction in November, but they don't have any mode other than lapdog to whomever is in power and don't have the balls to stand up to him, so they're going to earn their defeat. I was just saying it doesn't have to be that way.
"As the saying goes: The house always wins in Vegas," Schmidt said. "The city doesn't look like this because the visitors are winners."

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:02 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

Agreed. It’s also worth noting that the GOP Congressional delegation has been getting more and more conservative for years now due to gerrymandering, aggressive primary challenges and other factors. So while the GOP may be embarrassed by Trump’s crassness, I doubt many of them disagree with the underlying sentiments or policies. Rather than waiting for the “reasonable Republicans” to ride to the rescue, the Democrats need to aggressively tie every single GOP elected official to Trump’s racism, ignorance and kleptocracy.
Completely agree. Dems seem to be taking the approach of sitting back and letting Trump's action speak for themselves, and hope there is a backlash against Trump in November. I'm not sure this will work. I would love to see Dems push the "reasonable Republicans" and call them out, saying they either stand up to Trump, or we conclude they are with him. Once Trump is gone, the moderates are all going to distance themselves from him, but fuck that. You have the power to stop him now, vote against his policy ideas, speak out against his bullshit now, or forever wear your complicity to him around your neck.
I hear Syb is a big fan of the old judicial overreach around.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:35 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:38 pm
The Sybian wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:07 pm
Joe K wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:46 pm
Not that it wasn’t already clear but is there any doubt that racism is the defining principle of Trump’s politics?
Brontoburglar wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:08 pm
where does the shithole go? here? other thread?
Yet his base won't see how this is racist. It's gotten to the point where this is the conversation:

Trump Supporter: "I hate black people."
Liberal: "That's racist."
Trump Supporter: "Stupid Libtards, anyone who disagrees with them must be a racist."

And one of my favorites, Former Congressman Jack Kingston makes the argument I expected from internet trolls. "If Donald Trump were racist, we would know it by now! Where are the lawsuits?" Umm, didn't he lose major lawsuits for discriminatory practices in the past? If you aren't aware of the history of the Central Park Five, that is a fascinating and disgusting look into Trump's soul.

One of the first things of note in Trump's real estate career is being sued by the DOJ for discriminatory housing practices. It's, like, a fact and all that.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:00 pm

Anyway, Norway didn't seem to like Trump that much summer before last. This is from Bergen:


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And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:03 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:02 pm
Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

Agreed. It’s also worth noting that the GOP Congressional delegation has been getting more and more conservative for years now due to gerrymandering, aggressive primary challenges and other factors. So while the GOP may be embarrassed by Trump’s crassness, I doubt many of them disagree with the underlying sentiments or policies. Rather than waiting for the “reasonable Republicans” to ride to the rescue, the Democrats need to aggressively tie every single GOP elected official to Trump’s racism, ignorance and kleptocracy.
Completely agree. Dems seem to be taking the approach of sitting back and letting Trump's action speak for themselves, and hope there is a backlash against Trump in November. I'm not sure this will work. I would love to see Dems push the "reasonable Republicans" and call them out, saying they either stand up to Trump, or we conclude they are with him. Once Trump is gone, the moderates are all going to distance themselves from him, but fuck that. You have the power to stop him now, vote against his policy ideas, speak out against his bullshit now, or forever wear your complicity to him around your neck.
Dude, I like you man, but you're driving me crazy with this Eeyore shit. :D

Don't wanna be a broken record, feel like I've been saying it for over a year now. And we've had a number of elections to show that a backlash is well under way.

I'll leave it there.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:09 pm

Which election do you feel comfortable extrapolating out to say the tide has already turned?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:03 pm
The Sybian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:02 pm
Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:22 pm

Agreed. It’s also worth noting that the GOP Congressional delegation has been getting more and more conservative for years now due to gerrymandering, aggressive primary challenges and other factors. So while the GOP may be embarrassed by Trump’s crassness, I doubt many of them disagree with the underlying sentiments or policies. Rather than waiting for the “reasonable Republicans” to ride to the rescue, the Democrats need to aggressively tie every single GOP elected official to Trump’s racism, ignorance and kleptocracy.
Completely agree. Dems seem to be taking the approach of sitting back and letting Trump's action speak for themselves, and hope there is a backlash against Trump in November. I'm not sure this will work. I would love to see Dems push the "reasonable Republicans" and call them out, saying they either stand up to Trump, or we conclude they are with him. Once Trump is gone, the moderates are all going to distance themselves from him, but fuck that. You have the power to stop him now, vote against his policy ideas, speak out against his bullshit now, or forever wear your complicity to him around your neck.
Dude, I like you man, but you're driving me crazy with this Eeyore shit. :D

Don't wanna be a broken record, feel like I've been saying it for over a year now. And we've had a number of elections to show that a backlash is well under way.

I'll leave it there.
I'm not saying the Blue Wave won't happen, I'm just saying Dems can't sit back and assume it will happen automatically. My other point is that waiting another 10 months to hold "reasonable Republicans" to the fire is wrong, and allowing Trump to continue being Trump for another 10 months. Publicly challenge GOP Senators and Reps to stand up to Trump. Realistically, if a very small number of them do, Trump can be somewhat contained. I don't see a downside to this. If Dems come out guns blazing shrieking against Trump every day, that loses effectiveness and can draw strength to a Far-Right challenger, but calling on a GOP Rep in a purple district to stand up to Trump can only spur some Members to actually do something, or paint themselves as a Trump supporter in a District that is anti-Trump.
I hear Syb is a big fan of the old judicial overreach around.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Pruitt » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 pm

Just a thought - isn't Trump only a 1st generation American?
What type of prick doesn't stand up to shake another man's hand?

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:41 pm

He's not anti-immigrant.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:44 pm

2018 will likely be a good election for the Dems no matter what they do, but it’s really important in the long term to hold all Republicans to the fire, and not just the most vocal Trumpists. The Bush Presidency was such a disaster, for so many reasons (Iraq, torture, mortgage meltdown, Katrina, etc.), that the GOP should’ve been out of power for decades. But instead, Obama played nice and naively sought bipartisanship. I worry that even if Trump loses in 2020, the rest of the GOP will once again be let off the hook and we’ll end up with something truly scary like President Tom Cotton in 2024 or 2028.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by degenerasian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:52 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:44 pm
2018 will likely be a good election for the Dems no matter what they do, but it’s really important in the long term to hold all Republicans to the fire, and not just the most vocal Trumpists. The Bush Presidency was such a disaster, for so many reasons (Iraq, torture, mortgage meltdown, Katrina, etc.), that the GOP should’ve been out of power for decades. But instead, Obama played nice and naively sought bipartisanship. I worry that even if Trump loses in 2020, the rest of the GOP will once again be let off the hook and we’ll end up with something truly scary like President Tom Cotton in 2024 or 2028.
If this is the case the Dems need to pass some real shit when they have control in 2020. They need to talk about this stuff now and then have it ready for 2020. Full Universal Healthcare would be the first one. That one is easy. Everyone get on board, not just Bernie Sanders visiting Toronto. Other initiatives like immigration law, universal income, higher minimum wage, lower college tuition, voting rights (I'm stealing from the Canadian playbook). Pass them in the first 100 daysand the Republicans can't ever touch it again and will have nothing to run on for decades. Those assholes pushed through a tax-bill in the first year and it could have been more. Dems should return the favor.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by tennbengal » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:56 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:52 pm
Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:44 pm
2018 will likely be a good election for the Dems no matter what they do, but it’s really important in the long term to hold all Republicans to the fire, and not just the most vocal Trumpists. The Bush Presidency was such a disaster, for so many reasons (Iraq, torture, mortgage meltdown, Katrina, etc.), that the GOP should’ve been out of power for decades. But instead, Obama played nice and naively sought bipartisanship. I worry that even if Trump loses in 2020, the rest of the GOP will once again be let off the hook and we’ll end up with something truly scary like President Tom Cotton in 2024 or 2028.
If this is the case the Dems need to pass some real shit when they have control in 2020. They need to talk about this stuff now and then have it ready for 2020. Full Universal Healthcare would be the first one. That one is easy. Everyone get on board, not just Bernie Sanders visiting Toronto. Other initiatives like immigration law, universal income, higher minimum wage, lower college tuition, voting rights (I'm stealing from the Canadian playbook). Pass them in the first 100 daysand the Republicans can't ever touch it again and will have nothing to run on for decades. Those assholes pushed through a tax-bill in the first year and it could have been more. Dems should return the favor.
LOL

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by degenerasian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:59 pm

tennbengal wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:56 pm
degenerasian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:52 pm
Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:44 pm
2018 will likely be a good election for the Dems no matter what they do, but it’s really important in the long term to hold all Republicans to the fire, and not just the most vocal Trumpists. The Bush Presidency was such a disaster, for so many reasons (Iraq, torture, mortgage meltdown, Katrina, etc.), that the GOP should’ve been out of power for decades. But instead, Obama played nice and naively sought bipartisanship. I worry that even if Trump loses in 2020, the rest of the GOP will once again be let off the hook and we’ll end up with something truly scary like President Tom Cotton in 2024 or 2028.
If this is the case the Dems need to pass some real shit when they have control in 2020. They need to talk about this stuff now and then have it ready for 2020. Full Universal Healthcare would be the first one. That one is easy. Everyone get on board, not just Bernie Sanders visiting Toronto. Other initiatives like immigration law, universal income, higher minimum wage, lower college tuition, voting rights (I'm stealing from the Canadian playbook). Pass them in the first 100 daysand the Republicans can't ever touch it again and will have nothing to run on for decades. Those assholes pushed through a tax-bill in the first year and it could have been more. Dems should return the favor.
LOL
I think if the Dems dominate both houses it should be easy. I would say most of the country is for it and it wouldn't be a money problem. All of you guys would support it. What obstacles do you see? The drug companies? The lobbyists?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:01 pm

The Dems.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Avram » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:05 pm

We could have had the public option but Joe Lieberman killed it when he took the insurance company money from Hartford

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:59 pm
I think if the Dems dominate both houses it should be easy. I would say most of the country is for it and it wouldn't be a money problem. All of you guys would support it. What obstacles do you see? The drug companies? The lobbyists?
The taxpayers, whose taxes will have to go way up to finance an expansion of federal health coverage.

On balance, people should come out ahead because the amount spent on health insurance premiums should go down more than taxes would go up. But most people aren't paying their own health premiums now.

Let people start buying into Medicare at age 55, put in a public option (or allow people to buy into Medicaid where there aren't enough insurers for a legitimate market), and increase subsidies. That would go a long way toward closing the gap in medical coverage.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm
On balance, people should come out ahead because the amount spent on health insurance premiums should go down more than taxes would go up. But most people aren't paying their own health premiums now.
Isn't that just "raise corporate taxes", where they'll still come out ahead by not funding the current third-party plans or self-funding?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Johnnie » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:29 pm

Trump's lawyer arranged for $130k in hush money to silence an extramarital affair with former porn star Stormy Daniels.



This shit gets better and better.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:33 pm

mister d wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm
On balance, people should come out ahead because the amount spent on health insurance premiums should go down more than taxes would go up. But most people aren't paying their own health premiums now.
Isn't that just "raise corporate taxes", where they'll still come out ahead by not funding the current third-party plans or self-funding?
Perhaps. I seem to recall reading somewhere, a while ago, that raising the corporate tax rate wouldn't bring in nearly enough revenue to cover the costs of Medicare for All. But I have no idea where I read that, and of course with the rate just having been lowered, maybe there is more room to maneuver.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:37 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 pm
Just a thought - isn't Trump only a 1st generation American?
I looked it up - you're right. His mother was born in the UK (Scotland) in 1912 and came here at age 18.

He doesn't have any grandparents born in the US. He's even less of an American than I am.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Brontoburglar » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:41 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:37 pm
Pruitt wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 pm
Just a thought - isn't Trump only a 1st generation American?
I looked it up - you're right. His mother was born in the UK (Scotland) in 1912 and came here at age 18.

He doesn't have any grandparents born in the US. He's even less of an American than I am.
his dad was born in the US
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:33 pm
mister d wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm
On balance, people should come out ahead because the amount spent on health insurance premiums should go down more than taxes would go up. But most people aren't paying their own health premiums now.
Isn't that just "raise corporate taxes", where they'll still come out ahead by not funding the current third-party plans or self-funding?
Perhaps. I seem to recall reading somewhere, a while ago, that raising the corporate tax rate wouldn't bring in nearly enough revenue to cover the costs of Medicare for All. But I have no idea where I read that, and of course with the rate just having been lowered, maybe there is more room to maneuver.
Couldn’t you also combine higher corporate taxes with a progressive tax since the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy is at historically low rates? I’m not saying we’d have to bring back the 90% bracket that existed in the 50s, but it seems very possible to bring in a ton more revenue without significantly raising taxes for the vast majority of Americans. That shithole Norway, like the rest of Scandinavia, has substantially higher tax rates than the US. But that doesn’t stop it from faring better in health, happiness and quality of life metrics.

Of course, most Democratic legislators are very wealthy themselves, and spend most of their time around other wealthy people, which presents a significant obstacle.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:52 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:33 pm
Perhaps. I seem to recall reading somewhere, a while ago, that raising the corporate tax rate wouldn't bring in nearly enough revenue to cover the costs of Medicare for All. But I have no idea where I read that, and of course with the rate just having been lowered, maybe there is more room to maneuver.
I admittedly haven't ever looked into this, but logically if you keep the same "customers" and providers and cut out massive middle-man profits, there has to be excess somewhere, right?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:54 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:59 pm
tennbengal wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:56 pm
degenerasian wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:52 pm
Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:44 pm
2018 will likely be a good election for the Dems no matter what they do, but it’s really important in the long term to hold all Republicans to the fire, and not just the most vocal Trumpists. The Bush Presidency was such a disaster, for so many reasons (Iraq, torture, mortgage meltdown, Katrina, etc.), that the GOP should’ve been out of power for decades. But instead, Obama played nice and naively sought bipartisanship. I worry that even if Trump loses in 2020, the rest of the GOP will once again be let off the hook and we’ll end up with something truly scary like President Tom Cotton in 2024 or 2028.
If this is the case the Dems need to pass some real shit when they have control in 2020. They need to talk about this stuff now and then have it ready for 2020. Full Universal Healthcare would be the first one. That one is easy. Everyone get on board, not just Bernie Sanders visiting Toronto. Other initiatives like immigration law, universal income, higher minimum wage, lower college tuition, voting rights (I'm stealing from the Canadian playbook). Pass them in the first 100 daysand the Republicans can't ever touch it again and will have nothing to run on for decades. Those assholes pushed through a tax-bill in the first year and it could have been more. Dems should return the favor.
LOL
I think if the Dems dominate both houses it should be easy. I would say most of the country is for it and it wouldn't be a money problem. All of you guys would support it. What obstacles do you see? The drug companies? The lobbyists?
I don't know if most of the country is for universal healthcare, but the Money is sure as fuck against it. Pharma has a TON of power, and the health insurance industry is enormous. There will be an enormous push against universal healthcare, and the lobbyists and GOP will ramp up the fear and lies. Death Panels! Socialism! Your taxes increasing to pay for the healthcare of a lazy dark skinned people on Welfare! Millions of Canadians dying in lines at the hospital.
I hear Syb is a big fan of the old judicial overreach around.
-Rass

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:55 pm

mister d wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:52 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:33 pm
Perhaps. I seem to recall reading somewhere, a while ago, that raising the corporate tax rate wouldn't bring in nearly enough revenue to cover the costs of Medicare for All. But I have no idea where I read that, and of course with the rate just having been lowered, maybe there is more room to maneuver.
I admittedly haven't ever looked into this, but logically if you keep the same "customers" and providers and cut out massive middle-man profits, there has to be excess somewhere, right?
In addition to the middle man siphoning profits, a sizable amount of medical costs goes into medical providers having to deal with the insurance companies.
I hear Syb is a big fan of the old judicial overreach around.
-Rass

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:59 pm

Isn't that the argument that scares the shit out of the pharma companies as well? The government not only regulates them, but if they are the ones purchasing most of the drugs then they would be able to negotiate massive discounts.
"As the saying goes: The house always wins in Vegas," Schmidt said. "The city doesn't look like this because the visitors are winners."

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Johnnie » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:59 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm
Couldn’t you also combine higher corporate taxes with a progressive tax since the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy is at historically low rates? I’m not saying we’d have to bring back the 90% bracket that existed in the 50s, but it seems very possible to bring in a ton more revenue without significantly raising taxes for the vast majority of Americans.
America has an 18.57 trillion dollar GDP. We can do everything we want to. Everything. The idea we can't is bullshit.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:01 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm
Couldn’t you also combine higher corporate taxes with a progressive tax since the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy is at historically low rates? I’m not saying we’d have to bring back the 90% bracket that existed in the 50s, but it seems very possible to bring in a ton more revenue without significantly raising taxes for the vast majority of Americans. That shithole Norway, like the rest of Scandinavia, has substantially higher tax rates than the US. But that doesn’t stop it from faring better in health, happiness and quality of life metrics.

Of course, most Democratic legislators are very wealthy themselves, and spend most of their time around other wealthy people, which presents a significant obstacle.
I remember reading a fair number of articles ten years ago establishing that to really expand the welfare state, you have to raise taxes on the middle class, not just the rich. But we've spent the last 40 years telling the middle class that they should never have to pay any more in taxes.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:05 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:59 pm
Joe K wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm
Couldn’t you also combine higher corporate taxes with a progressive tax since the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy is at historically low rates? I’m not saying we’d have to bring back the 90% bracket that existed in the 50s, but it seems very possible to bring in a ton more revenue without significantly raising taxes for the vast majority of Americans.
America has an 18.57 trillion dollar GDP. We can do everything we want to. Everything. The idea we can't is bullshit.
Especially if we cut military spending in half and closed a bunch of overseas military facilities.
"As the saying goes: The house always wins in Vegas," Schmidt said. "The city doesn't look like this because the visitors are winners."

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:16 pm



This is actually a pretty good point. I'd have more respect for Trump if he had the balls to own some of these comments instead of denying or obfuscating. He obviously knows (or has been instructed) that it's offensive, but feels chastened somehow.
"As the saying goes: The house always wins in Vegas," Schmidt said. "The city doesn't look like this because the visitors are winners."

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by degenerasian » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:43 pm

I'm sure the same arguments/concerns were made when Johnson passed Medicare back in the 60s.
Would it be that much of a spending hike to expand the already existing system?

Image

Switzerland is at 64%, Canada at 70% not much higher than USAs 49%

It's not 100% like some people think. I have to pay for my own drugs, dental and eye care through my work insurance.
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