Greatest fucking classic rock radio single of all time

[tennbengal]

I'm not a fan of the Dead per se, but that is a good song.

it's on my top 5 worst songs. Just fuckawful.

[DC47]

For the haters. Hint: it's not the Eagles

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I lived in Northern California in the '70s, so I suffered from an extreme overdose of the Dead.

My first house-mate was a Jerry-phile. Wore the glasses, did the drugs, used lines from the songs. thought it was cool to drop acid before reporting for work as a machinist working on nuclear subs at Mare Island. I was astonished to find that his 8 foot long record collection contained every record that Jerry had ever played on (and he was a prolific side-man) as well as every record by anyone who had ever played on a Dead album. He must have had more Merl Saunders albums than the number of records the Beatles had every put out. And he played them. Merl Saunders. This record collection was a religious object, not a record collection. I parked my meager cassette collection off in the corner.

So while I had been baptized at a tremendous acid-drenched Dead concert at Roosevelt Stadium in New Jersey, circa 1975, I moved in the other direction when confronted with radical Dead worshippers everywhere I looked. Still, people assumed I was part of the cult. Perhaps it was the ponytail and baby-blue VW bus. A typical conversation circa 1978:

"Hey man, we're going down to Santa Cruz to see the ..."
"No."

But that said, 'Truckin' is a fine song. Great lyrics, melody, arrangement, musicianship. It's amazing that the Dead, or all people, produced a radio hit like this that is a classic rock staple. I heard it too often, so it's not even my favorite song from American Beauty ('Box of Rain', 'Candyman', 'Sugar Magnolia', 'Til The Morning Comes').

I really, really don't like at least 80% of the Dead's recorded output. But they put out some classics in the early to mid 70s that don't rely on being a member of the cult to be appreciated. And while there was a lot of crap in what they played, there was legit musicianship and improvisational skill as well.

[Rush2112]

I'm not a fan of the Dead per se, but that is a good song.

it's on my top 5 worst songs. Just fuckawful.

Scottie?

[DC47]

Here's a nominee for the category, just came on radio. Although arguably only the second best from this artist for this category.

The juxtaposition of Isaac Hayes in his full Black Power mode with tunes like 'Walk On By' and 'The Look of Love' used to kill me. He had a lot of nerve to do this material as it's not what his core audience expected of him. But as a producer and writer (which came way before his 'Shaft' personna) he recognized the greatness of his peers Bacharach and Jimmy Webb, and wanted to play with it. Here's a full-on Hayes deconstruction of a pop classic.

[DC47]

Currently listening to the Derek & The Dominos album "The Complete Jams" I think any of these are better than Layla, and I bet George Harrison would agree. :)

Duane Allman was said to be totally captivated by playing on the Layla sessions, and seriously considering Eric's band. They no doubt would have done some amazing things together. Of course, that would mean that the Allman Brothers wouldn't have happened. True believers such as myself could go back and forth on this one forever without coming to a resolution as to which path would be for the better.

[howard]

I was following a different train of thought. But now that you mention it, there is one huge problem.

Which tune?

Three number one hits (Everyday People, Thank You (Falettinmebe mice elf again), and Family Affair.

Or the one with the best hook (I Want to Take You Higher). Or the most anthem-like, (Stand!, Hot Fun in the Summertime, charted at #2). Or flat out greatness (Everybody is a Star (failed to chart! but was the B-side to Thank You), If You Want Me To Stay).

The Sly votes are hopelessly split. What a horrible loss, w/o actually dying young.

[howard]

True believers such as myself could go back and forth on this one forever without coming to a resolution as to which path would be for the better.

That's easy. The path that does not have him riding his motorcycle that day.

Got something for you in the old timey thread.

[Tom 1860]

Not sure if this counts, but it was pretty much as rock as they got and is one of the best songs going...

[Giff]

If anyone has ever driven from New Orleans to Houston with an awful hangover, they'll know that the Dead are full of shit on that song.

That line is in reference to the band getting busted in New Orleans, and having to pay almost 40K to get everyone out of jail.

I know.

[howard]

That was my cell phone ring-tone (Joy Division).

(Until last year, when the Giants post game radio show started using a cut from a Sly Stone tune: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5921209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

[Pruitt]

"Walk On By" is a great tune.

But this is the classic version. (And one of the greatest cover versions of all time)

[Rush2112]

If we're talking Stranglers.

[DC47]

"Walk On By" is a great tune.
But this is the classic version. (And one of the greatest cover versions of all time)

Ten seconds in I was prepared to hate this, as I love the song and this immediately sounded all British and punky -- not my things in general.

But it's actually terrific. They may be punks, but they can actually play. I especially dig the groovy power keyboard work. These Strangler blokes are clearly a legit part of the Bacharach cult, and deserve full respect. I've never heard of them, so I suppose I'll look up some of their originals, expecting to be left filled with disgust. But this song at least is a keeper.

I loved the Dionne Warwick and Isaac Hayes versions of 'Walk On By' so much that I worked up an arrangement for a jazz band, featuring (naturally) a trombone lead. This was at the same time that I was trying to work out how to add a trombone part to Coltrane tunes. Kind of a bi-modal approach to jazz, but that's a teenage boy for ya. Tri-modal, as I was beginning to play along with Allman Brothers jams, which I considered just guitar-oriented, bop-influenced blues numbers. If Duane had lived, surely he would have wanted to add a trombone to the band to complete the sound.

I knew better than to ever try to get my peers to play my 'Walk On By' arrangement. This would have been the pinnacle of non-cool in 1973; akin to wearing a t-shirt with The Monkees on the front. They were busy working out arrangements of Frank Zappa and Mahavishnu Orchestra tunes (I mostly hid my hatred of this shit). But I sure enjoyed playing my impassioned trombone improvisation over the 'Walk On By' melody in the privacy of my bedroom. Perhaps the Strangler guys were doing the same, in their own way, in their bedrooms in Oxforshire-on-Stoke or wherever they were stuck at the time. I salute these fellow travelers!

[DC47]

True believers such as myself could go back and forth on this one forever without coming to a resolution as to which path would be for the better.

That's easy. The path that does not have him riding his motorcycle that day.

Sadly, both paths probably come to the same end. That's true of many counter-factual histories, right? If he had gone on tour with Eric, perhaps both would have died with needles in their arms in a Howard Johnson's in Cleveland.

[howard]

Trombone register is ideal for Walk On By. (Is register the correct term?)

Big cult, that brit Bacharach group. Including secret agents.



Elvis Costello did an album as well as some live shows with Burt; here's a clip:

Elvis even did an Austin Powers cameo:

[DC47]

Trombone register is ideal for Walk On By. (Is register the correct term?)

Absolutely. And speed too. Too many of those Coltrane songs were just too fast to keep up with unless your last name was Johnson or Winding.

Big cult, that brit Bacharach group. Including secret agents.

When I eventually caught up with the English wing of our cult I was first thrilled and then annoyed. Thrilled to see others recognize the brilliance, outside of the original audience. Annoyed because these Brits were going to make Bacharach too much of a popular fad.

There is a certain level of discovery that cult members find reinforcing, but that doesn't produce forms that are overly disgusting. It's a narrow band, and this was way outside it.

I may not survive if I discover that Marshall Tucker songs are being used to sell cars somewhere. '24 Hours at a Time' would absolutely kill on a TV ad for Lexus though.

[DC47]

Elvis even did an Austin Powers cameo: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw this movie only a few years ago. And of course I hated this scene. It would have been brilliant if it had been done without introducing Bacharach and Costello. Just play it like they were part of a band, playing a song in the cafe.

Even better, have someone utterly unrecognizable (e.g., John Mayall) do the singing, and have Costello be playing guitar with Robert Fripp in the background.

But I suppose that some studio exec destroyed the beauty of the scene by pointing out to the writers that only 1% of the audience would 'get it.' That's (a small part of) the problem with mass media.

[P.D.X.]

It's as if Ace Ventura and Cannibal Corpse has taught us nothing.

[DC47]

Ah, another band I've never heard. Did Ace ever tour as a solo act? Perhaps I saw him play on Letterman.

[MaxWebster]

great thread...i might back Baker Street for my vote. i like that entire G Rafferty album but in terms of one song to pick, i couldn't pick one from a band that had tons of hits (e.g. Who, Queen, Zep, etc). Baker Street. gets me every time.


and dammit i know i'll get crucified and i'm a child of the 70s but i fucking hate Eric Clapton. almost everything. even as a little kid, back of the station wagon, dad had the radio on, some of that horrible shit from his greatest hits album would come on and i'd be howling for him to change the station.

sorry.



(i think i dislike more of those "classic" artists than i probably should, given my "above age 40" status)

[DC47]

great thread...i might back Baker Street for my vote. i like that entire G Rafferty album but in terms of one song to pick, i couldn't pick one from a band that had tons of hits (e.g. Who, Queen, Zep, etc). Baker Street. gets me every time.

and dammit i know i'll get crucified and i'm a child of the 70s but i fucking hate Eric Clapton. almost everything. even as a little kid, back of the station wagon, dad had the radio on, some of that horrible shit from his greatest hits album would come on and i'd be howling for him to change the station.

sorry.

(i think i dislike more of those "classic" artists than i probably should, given my "above age 40" status)

As one of the 'Clapton is God' people from the '70s, apology accepted. Once in a college psych lab my partner and I named our rat 'Clapton' and used Skinnerian techniques to try to get him to play 'Crossroads' (as I recall) on a tiny guitar we had made and put in the corner of his cage. We did get him as far as pawing the thing, but he was just beginning to get the hang of soloing in pentatonic mode when the semester ended.

I'm curious what you dislike about the deity?

Personally, he fell off the pedestal for me the second time I heard "I Shot the Sherriff." The first time I didn't recognize it as Clapton.

I still recognized that he could play a mean guitar when he wasn't trying to be a crooner or sell records. But he spent the next few decades primarily doing these things. So I just played the Cream, Blind Faith and Derek & records, and tried to wait him out. He's done interesting things recently, so I am back on the God thing, but with a 'kind of, sometimes' in between 'is' and 'God.' I mean, he's got as good a case as anyone still alive.

[MaxWebster]

woo. well i don't know that i'm going to be popular here but aside from his (TO ME!) lame songwriting, emotionless vocals, pedestrian blues licks...i think he grew a mean beard while on smack? so he's got that going for him. which is nice.

i don't know, i guess i've always had the feeling that if he weren't CLAPTON then he'd be a dime a dozen among the countless similar players from that era. For example I thought Blackmore had far more of a style and flair (although was shit-all for a rhythm player to be honest so if Ritchie were talked about in the same tones i'd be here saying "come on..." - maybe i'm just an iconoclast at heart...). Jimmy Page was actually kinda shitty to me too but nobody else could put a chord structure together like that guy so i love him for that, the songwriting. trying to think of an opposite...great player but meh on the songs... i'm sure i'll come up with one eventually.

file under "there's no right or wrong in art" because i just don't like him but hey i know people think Alex Lifeson is a boring guitar player. they're WRONG but that's ok.

however i will give huge props to the opening to Layla, that's flat-out ballsy. blind squirrel and all HA

great thread...i might back Baker Street for my vote. i like that entire G Rafferty album but in terms of one song to pick, i couldn't pick one from a band that had tons of hits (e.g. Who, Queen, Zep, etc). Baker Street. gets me every time.

and dammit i know i'll get crucified and i'm a child of the 70s but i fucking hate Eric Clapton. almost everything. even as a little kid, back of the station wagon, dad had the radio on, some of that horrible shit from his greatest hits album would come on and i'd be howling for him to change the station.

sorry.

(i think i dislike more of those "classic" artists than i probably should, given my "above age 40" status)

As one of the 'Clapton is God' people from the '70s, apology accepted. Once in a college psych lab my partner and I named our rat 'Clapton' and used Skinnerian techniques to try to get him to play 'Crossroads' (as I recall) on a tiny guitar we had made and put in the corner of his cage. We did get him as far as pawing the thing, but he was just beginning to get the hang of soloing in pentatonic mode when the semester ended.

I'm curious what you dislike about the deity?

Personally, he fell off the pedestal for me the second time I heard "I Shot the Sherriff." The first time I didn't recognize it as Clapton.

I still recognized that he could play a mean guitar when he wasn't trying to be a crooner or sell records. But he spent the next few decades primarily doing these things. So I just played the Cream, Blind Faith and Derek & records, and tried to wait him out. He's done interesting things recently, so I am back on the God thing, but with a 'kind of, sometimes' in between 'is' and 'God.' I mean, he's got as good a case as anyone still alive.

[MaxWebster]

there should probably be a Musical Confessions thread for this, i fear i've hijacked this into the wrong direction. Sorry! we should keep it positive...hm...

not sure this made it to the thread yet, but it'd be in my top 10 (taking out the # of times I heard it as an adolescent, which is difficult...)

[DC47]

How many great instrumentalists can also sing and compose really well? I mostly come up with people who were great at one or two, and only kind of good at the rest.

I don't think Hendrix, Duane, Allman, Dylan, Lennon, McCartney, Young, Stills, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Pete Townsend, Roger McGuinn, Jerry Garcia, Brian Wilson, or Keith Richards met this standard. Not based on what I mean by 'great' and 'really well.' So it's a tough hurdle.

The closest I get is Chuck Berry. And I'm stretching the 'great instrumentalist' criteria because I think he developed a new style of guitar playing. So innovator's bonus points there.

You may be asking too much from his holiness. He can play guitar, though there are those who I like better. I think he wrote quite a few good songs (and of course a lot of filler). But he could never sing more than passably.

I think Clapton had exactly the right idea (less the heroin habit) when he just stood to the side and played licks when Delaney or George or Mayall nodded to him.

It would have worked out fine if Blind Faith had continued, with him only sharing the spotlight with Winwood. Or if Derek & had made it as a continuing band, and someone of the stature of Duane Allman had joined in (e.g., Roy Buchanan, from the Oldies thread, Joe Cocker, Bonnie Bramlett after dumping Delaney). But sadly, Clapton became successful as a solo act after that dreadful shooting of the sherrif thing.

[MaxWebster]

no, as with anything in the realm of art it just comes down to what you like or don't. I've never been a tried and true blues fan (excepting maybe the ACTUAL blues, ala Willie Dixon himself). e.g. i'll take Pete Townshend over Clapton in everything but that's what i like, i prefer the artsy or moody over the bluesy.

I honestly never really liked Hendrix much at all either until i heard Band of Gypsys (liked it SO much more than the Experience). they made me appreciate him so much more as a player since i wasn't focusing on the vocals or lousy production or songs that didn't really hit me too hard.

and it's funny you bring up 'Sheriff because that was easily my most-hated song as a kid on classic rock radio. :) i didn't want to be the one to bring it up bc even i know that's not really representative of his stuff...

...OR WAS IT?!?

[DC47]

Obviously, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Sadly, I think Clapton 'sherriffed' away for the next couple decades. At least he didn't go full disco.

I think a lot of people reject Clapton as a great rock musician because while they loved some of what he did, they hated the rest. That is what I'm calling an excessively high standard. For whatever reason, he tried to do a lot. But there are no great rock instrumentalists who are also really good singers and composers. He too failed at this. Still great in my book -- I just have to remember that not liking vast amounts of his output doesn't negate this. Much of what Abe Lincoln did probably was pretty bad too. Still a great president. And at least he didn't try to defend Yes and Rush, just slaves. He took the easier route on that one.

[Pruitt]

"Walk On By" is a great tune.
But this is the classic version. (And one of the greatest cover versions of all time)

Ten seconds in I was prepared to hate this, as I love the song and this immediately sounded all British and punky -- not my things in general.

But it's actually terrific. They may be punks, but they can actually play. I especially dig the groovy power keyboard work. These Strangler blokes are clearly a legit part of the Bacharach cult, and deserve full respect. I've never heard of them, so I suppose I'll look up some of their originals, expecting to be left filled with disgust. But this song at least is a keeper.

Stranglers are one of my favourite bands of all time. Kind of hit and miss though.

their greatest album is "Feline" which is an absolute masterpiece.

For the heavier punky stuff, check out "Rattus Norvegicus" or "No More Heroes."

[MaxWebster]

ok that is hilarious.

... And at least he didn't try to defend Yes and Rush, just slaves. He took the easier route on that one.

[howard]

Hey Webster:

When you were a lad, and your disdain for Clapton was developing via the classic rock radio, did you hear (and dislike) much of the Cream/Blind Faith stuff?

I did not worship at the altar of EC. Although I always liked him, when he returned from his heroin hiatus I figured his best was behind him, and I share the 'I Shot The Sheriff' view expressed here. I was too young to dig the Mayall/Cream/Faith stuff when it was current, but I came to love that stuff in adulthood.

I have a high regard for him because of his high profile embracing of his recovery from drugs, and his founding two rehab facilities (if not more.)

But I am curious what you think of that pre-Layla stuff.

[A_B]

There are certainly better guitarists than Clapton. I just can't name you any that I could listen to all day long. his late seventies early eighties stuff is weak, but I love some of the eighties rock type shit he did. It's in the way you use it totally captured zeitgeist.

Unplugged is on my desert island mix. Pilgrim represented a growth in his personal and playing life. That album is excellent. From the cradle is a fun romp.

And he puts on an awesome live show.

[tennbengal]

And he puts on an awesome live show.

An understatement. Saw him in 1990 on his Journeyman tour in Nashville (outdoor amphitheater), he walked on the stage at 8:00, no warm-up, and walked off at 11:00. Among the best shows I have ever been to.

[A_B]

And he puts on an awesome live show.

An understatement. Saw him in 1990 on his Journeyman tour in Nashville (outdoor amphitheater), he walked on the stage at 8:00, no warm-up, and walked off at 11:00. Among the best shows I have ever been to.

I saw him in Nashville as well, but a few years later and in the arena downtown. Easily the best arena concert I've ever been to -and I saw Billy Joel and Elton John!

[Shirley]

I've always liked Clapton, but never quite put him on the God pedestal. Close, but I agree that his songwriting was always a bit weak.

But yeah, I saw him twice in around 1990 - might have been that same tour - and he was incredible. No theatrics, just incredible playing. He'd walk up to one side of the stage, and just stand there while absolutely shredding his guitar. There was no need to jump around or assume the power stance - he just played the hell out of it. Great show.

I agree that he'd have been better off settling in with a great band for a long time. And not fucking too many of their wives.

[MaxWebster]

funny, i was lying in bed this morning thinking about this - i definitely didn't discover his pre-solo stuff until later, probably high school, and by that time my thinking was already formed (see: "core beliefs": Therapy 201) - and yes, some of that stuff i definitely like. Of course in any topic you get confirmation bias so anything i'd hear by Clapton i didn't like i'd think "ha see? he's terrible" but that's not true. If i break it down it probably comes down to the fact that i drift off when hearing him sing (this from someone who has listened to Rush for decades, i know). Put Jack Bruce behind the mic and we're good.

(except Layla. despite having heard it roughly 94121 times it is a great song)

So yeah - similar path, Howard.



...but if you guys are going to try to make me like the Eagles, there's trouble ahead...

Hey Webster:

When you were a lad, and your disdain for Clapton was developing via the classic rock radio, did you hear (and dislike) much of the Cream/Blind Faith stuff?

I did not worship at the altar of EC. Although I always liked him, when he returned from his heroin hiatus I figured his best was behind him, and I share the 'I Shot The Sheriff' view expressed here. I was too young to dig the Mayall/Cream/Faith stuff when it was current, but I came to love that stuff in adulthood.

I have a high regard for him because of his high profile embracing of his recovery from drugs, and his founding two rehab facilities (if not more.)

But I am curious what you think of that pre-Layla stuff.

[DC47]

Despite the corrupt spectacle they became, the early Eagles were astonishingly good.

But if that's out, let's discuss early Insane Clown Posse. That band had incredible musicianship and creative songwriting. Kind of like a combination of Hendrix, Horowitz (Vlad), and Paul Simon, with maybe a touch of Kiss and Hank Williams.

Few people know about those days. I saw them at Wolf Trap opening for Joni Mitchell. When they joined her and Leonard Cohen for the encore of 'Circle Game' and the Northern Lights began to show in the night-time sky, people cried. In the throes of ecstasy, there were a few craft IPAs dumped on peoples' heads. But only a few. I think this started that whole thing for ICP.

I can't find any video clips, but the memory is indelible.

[sancarlos]

And, to think, I never pegged you as a Juggalo.

Magnets? WTF?

[DC47]

Well, just the early stuff. Before Sonny Rollins and David Grier left the band.

[MaxWebster]

now you've gone and done it - i'm loading up my iPod with Cream, Mayall, and Derek & the Dominoes today (for my family trip to Alaska aw yeah).

[howard]

Don't forget this



(pedophile album cover here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_Fait ... dFaith.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

[DC47]

As with most things artistic, I think a lot depends on how you come to the artist, not just the artist per se.

If I had first heard Clapton's post-Sherriff work, but not the earlier stuff, I would no doubt think of him roughly the way I think of Phil Collins. Years of mediocre FM radio ballads would be balanced against the brilliant but played-into-submission Layla, and net would not be good. He would just be another one of those guys who bore me. Playing songs I tune out. Who I heard was once good.

But I came to Clapton in the late 60s. By the mid 70s I had listened to hundreds of hours of Clapton with Mayall, the Yardbirds, Cream, Blind Faith, Delaney and Bonnie, Bangladesh, the Beatles, George Harrison, and Derek and the. I had tried my hand at his songs. So I had his brilliance firmly etched in my brain before listening (as little as possible) to him collapse into middle-age commercialism. I respected what Clapton had done. But didn't want to hear what he was doing now.

Decades passed. Surprisingly, I then got to exult in his later resurgence as an artist, with albums that were not aimed at radio play. More early stuff and concert material got released. Now Clapton is exciting to me again. I don't expect another Layla. Or a band like Blind Faith. But I want to know what he's doing, where he's going, as both an artist and entrepreneur (e.g., his rehab centers, guitar festival). It's an interesting circle of life.