Random Thoughts About Thoughts Random

[degenerasian]

Libraries! It used to be a quiet place. Now kids just run around inside it.

Kids dont play outside except for mobile/temporary skateboard parks. Those have become a really popular in Calgary but the city is cutting back on them. Dumb.

[bfj]

I hate it at restaurants. Just gives the appearance you wish the kid didn’t have to be there at all.

You have it backwards with teens. They’d rather be anywhere than out to dinner with their parents, at least mine feel that way.

Here’s the rub, what else do you want them to do? I’ve tried to suggest things to my teen and I get blank stares. Nobody goes outside to play. Nobody meets up to go bike riding or play ball anymore. This is the way kids (teens) “socialize” now. Watch Wall-E if you want to see where we are headed with screens.

It's something I struggle with. Yes, it's a part of life and we have to adjust, but right now there is so much exploitation (by companies and bad people). My hope is the generation that grew up with cell phones finds a way to use them better.

Also, don't take your kids out to dinner. Yes, that's an insensitive answer to people that can't afford childcare or who have children that can't be watched by others. However, compare how often your parents took you out to restaurants to how often children are taken to restaurants now. Hell, every microbrewery I go to now has kids running all over the place. Now get off my lawn.

Perhaps consider eating at nicer establishments?

[EdRomero]

I hate it at restaurants. Just gives the appearance you wish the kid didn’t have to be there at all.

You have it backwards with teens. They’d rather be anywhere than out to dinner with their parents, at least mine feel that way.

Here’s the rub, what else do you want them to do? I’ve tried to suggest things to my teen and I get blank stares. Nobody goes outside to play. Nobody meets up to go bike riding or play ball anymore. This is the way kids (teens) “socialize” now. Watch Wall-E if you want to see where we are headed with screens.

It's something I struggle with. Yes, it's a part of life and we have to adjust, but right now there is so much exploitation (by companies and bad people). My hope is the generation that grew up with cell phones finds a way to use them better.

Also, don't take your kids out to dinner. Yes, that's an insensitive answer to people that can't afford childcare or who have children that can't be watched by others. However, compare how often your parents took you out to restaurants to how often children are taken to restaurants now. Hell, every microbrewery I go to now has kids running all over the place. Now get off my lawn.

Perhaps consider eating at nicer establishments?

But Chuck e Cheese makes the best pizza

[A_B]

Bfj restaurant shaming. Cool.

[rass]

I hate it at restaurants. Just gives the appearance you wish the kid didn’t have to be there at all.

You have it backwards with teens. They’d rather be anywhere than out to dinner with their parents, at least mine feel that way.

Here’s the rub, what else do you want them to do? I’ve tried to suggest things to my teen and I get blank stares. Nobody goes outside to play. Nobody meets up to go bike riding or play ball anymore. This is the way kids (teens) “socialize” now. Watch Wall-E if you want to see where we are headed with screens.

It's something I struggle with. Yes, it's a part of life and we have to adjust, but right now there is so much exploitation (by companies and bad people). My hope is the generation that grew up with cell phones finds a way to use them better.

Also, don't take your kids out to dinner. Yes, that's an insensitive answer to people that can't afford childcare or who have children that can't be watched by others. However, compare how often your parents took you out to restaurants to how often children are taken to restaurants now. Hell, every microbrewery I go to now has kids running all over the place. Now get off my lawn.

Perhaps consider eating at nicer establishments?

But Chuck e Cheese makes the best pizza

*in Kentucky

[bfj]

Bfj restaurant shaming. Cool.

Perhaps I should have said pricier.

Get off his lawn.

[EdRomero]

I am not bothered by screaming, whining children in restaurants --25 years of working with them builds an immunity. The off my lawn comment was about the breweries -- I don't care how family friendly some of these tap rooms try to be, it's a place where your child will be surrounded by beer and drunks (and hipsters). So when I see it, I'm thinking what the hell are the parents doing.

My comment for going out to eat less often was based off of Mr. D's comments about parents in restaurants. When I hear them say a phone is the only way their kids can survive going out to eat with them, I see it as a problem, no matter how cheap the restaurant is. And going out to eat way too often, when it has a negative impact on a child's development because the child is staring at a screen for a long time rather than interacting is concerning.

[Pruitt]

Yeah, the problem is the phone - kids can't be pacified without one. I've seen toddlers wielding phones to keep them calm.

No wonder Mindfulness is a (probably) billion dollar business, no one it seems can deal with what is going on around them, they are too busy with their screens. It is the least surprising thing that young kids whose parents barely look up from their phones have issues when they don't have phones.

But in terms of little kids in restaurants, I just don't get it. I mean, how much of a good time can it be for a parent to be in public with a shrieking child? What's the point?

[mister d]

The off my lawn comment was about the breweries -- I don't care how family friendly some of these tap rooms try to be, it's a place where your child will be surrounded by beer and drunks (and hipsters).

Maybe I'm projecting what I want, but it seems like 9 out of every 10 breweries I've been to would rather have a family there than two drunks.



(Brooklyn and any of the tiny closet sized ones being the 10th.)



(Also, I recognize some of this is entitlement of the generation that helped fuel the craft boom aging into parenthood and not wanting to give up the chance to stop in.)

[A_B]

But in terms of little kids in restaurants, I just don't get it. I mean, how much of a good time can it be for a parent to be in public with a shrieking child? What's the point?

You have kids...were yours always 100 percent angels? If so, you should be writing parenting books, as well! It's no fun, but sometimes you have to be out of the house for a bit and shit happens. I try not to get upset with parents about stuff like that. So long as you're not actively disrupting my meal in some way other than a bit of noise, I can deal with it.

My kids (now 18 &15) mostly grew up without phones during the formative years. But we wore out those placemats where you color and play games. Which of course, is much more interactive. These days, both of them pretty much never pull out a phone while we are eating. Did one thing right, I guess.

[A_B]

2 of my top 3 most recent text message threads are with swampers and swampers are also 7 and 8. I have a problem.

[BSF21]

2 of my top 3 most recent text message threads are with swampers and swampers are also 7 and 8. I have a problem.

Hey buuuuddy.

[A_B]

2 of my top 3 most recent text message threads are with swampers and swampers are also 7 and 8. I have a problem.

Hey buuuuddy.

You're about 25th

[brian]

Can't enter a bar in Nevada if you're under 21 -- period -- so kids in breweries is not something I've contemplated, but it does strike me as weird when I go to another state and see it.

[BSF21]

2 of my top 3 most recent text message threads are with swampers and swampers are also 7 and 8. I have a problem.

Hey buuuuddy.

You're about 25th

Hey caaaasualll acquaaaaintanceeeee

[BSF21]

Can't enter a bar in Nevada if you're under 21 -- period -- so kids in breweries is not something I've contemplated, but it does strike me as weird when I go to another state and see it.

Wisconsin is the weirdest I've been in. In IN you can have kids in a bar but they have to have a rail up or have the bar in a separate area from a dining room or whatnot. In WI, KIDS JUST SIT AT THE BAR. It's weird.

[Giff]

All the breweries in the Houston area that I've been to are very family friendly. We have our soccer parties at the one in Katy. I mean, I guess the playground equipment could be for adults and people go the wrong message so the brewery just went along with it, but I doubt it.

What a fucking weird thing to be annoyed by. I swear the worst part of being a parent is people judging, especially those without kids or those who obviously are far removed from the toddler days. And yes, our kids use phones at tables. CLUTCH YOUR PEARLS!!! Fuck off.

[A_B]

I think in Kentucky kids are allowed in until a certain time of night if you don't have a certain percentage of your revenue come from food. I guess whatever that line is separates Restaurants from bars.

Like I said, kids don't bother me, and they especially don't if it's during the day at a brewery with a decent outside area. I think it's fine that parents want to take their kids to places they want to go instead of Applebees.

[brian]

Most of the breweries here also don't serve food so it's mostly what I've become conditioned to. All there really is even for adults is to sit there and drink.

I know of breweries in other states that have huge outdoor patios with stuff for kids to do (like some basic playground equipment and whatnot), so that's not really that strange, but in this case it's mostly what I've become accustomed to.

[Pruitt]

But in terms of little kids in restaurants, I just don't get it. I mean, how much of a good time can it be for a parent to be in public with a shrieking child? What's the point?

You have kids...were yours always 100 percent angels? If so, you should be writing parenting books, as well! It's no fun, but sometimes you have to be out of the house for a bit and shit happens. I try not to get upset with parents about stuff like that. So long as you're not actively disrupting my meal in some way other than a bit of noise, I can deal with it.

My kids (now 18 &15) mostly grew up without phones during the formative years. But we wore out those placemats where you color and play games. Which of course, is much more interactive. These days, both of them pretty much never pull out a phone while we are eating. Did one thing right, I guess.

My point was more about parents who know their kids can't behave properly.

[govmentchedda]

The off my lawn comment was about the breweries -- I don't care how family friendly some of these tap rooms try to be, it's a place where your child will be surrounded by beer and drunks (and hipsters).

Maybe I'm projecting what I want, but it seems like 9 out of every 10 breweries I've been to would rather have a family there than two drunks.



(Brooklyn and any of the tiny closet sized ones being the 10th.)



(Also, I recognize some of this is entitlement of the generation that helped fuel the craft boom aging into parenthood and not wanting to give up the chance to stop in.)

Agree with all of this.

[govmentchedda]

Most of the breweries here also don't serve food so it's mostly what I've become conditioned to. All there really is even for adults is to sit there and drink.

I know of breweries in other states that have huge outdoor patios with stuff for kids to do (like some basic playground equipment and whatnot), so that's not really that strange, but in this case it's mostly what I've become accustomed to.

This. Many, but not all of the breweries around here are either essentially set up like restaurants, some have table games, some have full indoor and outdoor activities that are just short of a McDonald's playground.

[Rush2112]

The two big points of contention here are dogs at breweries and kids at breweries.

I think (as a parent with two small kids) that kids are fine as long as they are contained and not being assholes. We typically go for a beer with the kids in the early afternoon (11-2 range) or from 4-6. Never there when the "real" drinking is going on. It's a taproom, not a bar, hence the games, playground area, etc. etc.

My get off my lawn thing about taprooms is when the music is too damn loud. Again, not a bar so you don't need that shit cranked up. I'd like to have a conversation while enjoying a pint or two.

[The Sybian]

Only time I kept my kids in a brewery for more than 5 minutes was a meetup prior to a St Paddy's Day Parade my wife made us march in repping the hospital in that city. Lots of kids and dogs in the place that day (Czigmeisters). Otherwise, I've just bought cans/bottles with the kids, or stayed for one 4oz pour while buying bottles. I've been in tap rooms where other people brought kids, and it's never bothered me in slightest. I think it's been almost exclusively babies, as none of the breweries I've been to have activities for kids. Never had a kid crying or making a scene. It's a constant debate on local beer groups, as NJ toys with passing laws banning kids or dogs. Seems like a pretty even split in the debates, and I really don't care either way. I think there is a very strong argument on both sides. I have kids and love dogs, but I get that others don't and want to enjoy a brewery without dogs and kids causing problems.

As for the phones/iPads in restaurants, I think it's a major problem. We never let our kids use devices in public, and never had a problem. I know I'm lucky, and my kids are both fairly well behaved, and easy to manage. I don't judge parents who give their kids devices to distract, because I don't know their kids situation, like maybe that have severe ADHD and can't sit still, or maybe the kid is having a bad day and needs to chill for an hour. I've just seen issues with one of my son's friends in particular. They are 13. The kid constantly has his phone out in social situations. I used to drive them to school every morning, and my son would try to talk to him, but he was either watching Youtube clips or playing games, and was barely responding. We let my son invite this kid as his one guest to my daughters birthday party, and he spent the entire 2 hours on his phone while my son sat there stuck with a bunch of 9 year olds. We went out to lunch with 2 other families a couple weeks ago, and every kid other than mine spent the entire time not talking to each other, on their phones. It was really bizarre. 5 kids, 3 13 yo boys, 2 10 yo girls, and my kids just looked confused, trying to engage their friends. It's really sad, and worrying, as they looked like fucking junkies unable to put down their phones.

The weird thing, I feel like it is going to be an easy transition for these kids to voluntarily live in the Matrix or a VR world. Our generation, for the most part, would resist jumping in or implanting tech into our bodies, but shit, that generation is already halfway there. I remember talking to a friend in college who had a sister 8 years younger, and he would worry about his sister because she would come home from school, and spend the rest of the IMing friends who lived in their neighborhood. He would tell her just to walk across the street or invite the friends over, and his sister would act like he was crazy and tell him he doesn't get it. Technology is very clearly changing the way we function as a society, and our brains. I know I find it much more difficult to concentrate on a book than I ever did before, and I can't watch a TV show without also doing something else. Not sure where this goes, but if Sci-Fi has taught us anything, it's not good.

[bfj]

What a fucking weird thing to be annoyed by. I swear the worst part of being a parent is people judging, especially those without kids or those who obviously are far removed from the toddler days. And yes, our kids use phones at tables. CLUTCH YOUR PEARLS!!! Fuck off.

Sheeeeit. Try that with a kid with a disability. It's a miracle I haven't gotten into a fist fight with all the assholes I've dealt with. For fuck's sake, you're at a pizza place, is there really decorum? All my kid did was cheer when the Orioles scored a run, it doesn't happen all that often. I remember getting into it with a certain Canuck who told me he would tell my kid to fuck off if he made noise in a library.

[mister d]

I can't fathom saying something to a parent about their kid or directly to some other kid in public unless its like "holy shit, get down from that ledge" if the kid is about to kill themselves.

[brian]

I grouse to myself about asshole parents who do shit like let their kids run around unsupervised in a casino (where they're not supposed to be in the first place), but I'd never say something to someone. I can't imagine what would possess someone to think their opinion is necessary there. Anything I say to an asshole parent (and I realize that sometimes it's the circumstances, not the parent -- so I do get that, but let's assume for the sake of argument that I'm right and the parent is just legitimately an asshole) isn't going to change their parenting or shame them in any way.

[Pruitt]

I grouse to myself about asshole parents who do shit like let their kids run around unsupervised in a casino (where they're not supposed to be in the first place), but I'd never say something to someone. I can't imagine what would possess someone to think their opinion is necessary there. Anything I say to an asshole parent (and I realize that sometimes it's the circumstances, not the parent -- so I do get that, but let's assume for the sake of argument that I'm right and the parent is just legitimately an asshole) isn't going to change their parenting or shame them in any way.

One thing you learn pretty quickly when you have kids is that people are not in the least bit shy about giving parenting advice.

[brian]

I spend a lot of time by myself in casinos and bars (well, not a LOT but much, much more than most people I'm pretty sure) and have become an interested observer in things like how people interact with their kids and the relative supervisory skill people use in relationship with their kids and the results are a little skewed because anyone who is traipsing around a Las Vegas casino with toddlers/pre-teens in tow is immediately suspect, but all that said -- European/foreign parents are way worse than American parents when it comes to keeping their kids in line. I don't know how much of that has to do with American norms versus wherever they come from, but I find it fascinating indeed to see some Danish prick on his phone while his kids are running willy-nilly around a bank of slot machines and security has to come over to remind Vegetable Lasagna that you're not allowed to have kids in a casino.

(In the same way, I'm always interested in seeing how long it takes security to react. Usually not long since that's the kind of stuff that the Nevada Gaming Commission will really fuck over a casino operator on. The only thing they take more seriously is underage drinking/gambling.)

[mister d]

One thing you learn pretty quickly when you have kids is that people are not in the least bit shy about giving parenting advice.

I can think of exactly one (1) time where I was happy someone did and it altered my behavior. An ER nurse came up and was super apologetic but still wanted to let me know she sees about a kid a week with a dislocated shoulder from doing the lift-me-up or helicopter thing.

[A_B]

One thing you learn pretty quickly when you have kids is that people are not in the least bit shy about giving parenting advice.

I can think of exactly one (1) time where I was happy someone did and it altered my behavior. An ER nurse came up and was super apologetic but still wanted to let me know she sees about a kid a week with a dislocated shoulder from doing the lift-me-up or helicopter thing.

I did that to my kid one time too many! The last time when we were at the doctor we got the same admonition.

[Sabo]

One thing you learn pretty quickly when you have kids is that people are not in the least bit shy about giving parenting advice.

I can think of exactly one (1) time where I was happy someone did and it altered my behavior. An ER nurse came up and was super apologetic but still wanted to let me know she sees about a kid a week with a dislocated shoulder from doing the lift-me-up or helicopter thing.

I did that to my kid one time too many! The last time when we were at the doctor we got the same admonition.

It's still OK to do pro wrestling moves on a four-year-old though, right? Especially if it isn't your kid?

[Nonlinear FC]

1) I've raised two thoughtful, mostly aware of their surroundings-type kids. We don't have a lot of family dinners, so when we go out, it has always been a no device zone. That said, I don't have a huge issue with other parents that allow it. I don't think it's a great solution, but from a purely selfish standpoint, if you have a shitty kid that won't behave unless occupied by the device... Rather that than having a bunch of bullshit going on while I'm trying enjoy a meal.

I say this as a parent that had a toddler that was REALLY difficult at that age. Here's the thing, if my daughter was losing her shit, I'm immediately scooping her up and having a chat/scolding/calming down period outside of the venue. I have ZERO patience for parents that bring their kid out in public knowing they are prone to prolonged outbursts and tantrums. Sorry if that offends anyone, but if your kid has issues and gets super loud, I really don't think it's fair to the rest of the patrons to let that go on.

Again, I had that kind of kid. We cut back on going out, and again, if she started getting loud, we were going outside.

2) I don't have a HUGE issue with breweries and kids/dogs, however... There's one particular place I've stopped by and left twice now because it was a fucking zoo up in there. Just too many kids taking up chairs and spreading various games all over the floor and the vibe was like some block party, but you don't know anyone there, it's just overcrowded. I want to chill out and grab a craft brew, not dodge a bunch of kids playing tag near the bar FFS.

[mister d]

#1, same. Our youngest still has to be taken out once every ~3 meals.

2) I don't have a HUGE issue with breweries and kids/dogs, however... There's one particular place I've stopped by and left twice now because it was ... Just too many kids ... spreading ... all over the floor and the vibe ... party ... there, i...s just overcrowded. I want to chill out and ...f... a bunch of kids ... near the bar FFS.

Fucked up.

[BSF21]

1) I've raised two thoughtful, mostly aware of their surroundings-type kids. We don't have a lot of family dinners, so when we go out, it has always been a no device zone. That said, I don't have a huge issue with other parents that allow it. I don't think it's a great solution, but from a purely selfish standpoint, if you have a shitty kid that won't behave unless occupied by the device... Rather that than having a bunch of bullshit going on while I'm trying enjoy a meal.

I say this as a parent that had a toddler that was REALLY difficult at that age. Here's the thing, if my daughter was losing her shit, I'm immediately scooping her up and having a chat/scolding/calming down period outside of the venue. I have ZERO patience for parents that bring their kid out in public knowing they are prone to prolonged outbursts and tantrums. Sorry if that offends anyone, but if your kid has issues and gets super loud, I really don't think it's fair to the rest of the patrons to let that go on.

Again, I had that kind of kid. We cut back on going out, and again, if she started getting loud, we were going outside.

2) I don't have a HUGE issue with breweries and kids/dogs, however... There's one particular place I've stopped by and left twice now because it was a fucking zoo up in there. Just too many kids taking up chairs and spreading various games all over the floor and the vibe was like some block party, but you don't know anyone there, it's just overcrowded. I want to chill out and grab a craft brew, not dodge a bunch of kids playing tag near the bar FFS.

I'm with you there. And I understand and am more sympathetic to special needs children, but for your every day run of the mill "I'm trying to have an evening out with my wife" type of setting, you've got about a 30 second timer to get the kid calmed down or remove them from the environment. You don't get to take a phone call in the middle of a theater with 249 other paying customers, you don't get to ignore your kid in the middle of a 100 person restaurant/brewery. Same principle, take it outside. We all understand.

[Nonlinear FC]

Absolutely 1000 percent on special needs. All day, 'er-day.

[bfj]

You can’t look at my kid and know he has autism so that’s bullshit. He may scream or yell or curse and I’ve had people tell me how I should punish him, smack him, use a belt on him, etc. you have no idea what people are dealing with so getting pissy about it doesn’t help.

Again, I’m not talkin about parents who let their kids run wild. I’m talking about kids having behaviors. There’s a difference between undisciplined and struggling.

Reread this and didn’t mean to come off dickish. It’s a sensitive topic.

[mister d]

What you've shared here over the years has absolutely helped shape my knowing that I can't inherently know what's going on.

[brian]

What you've shared here over the years has absolutely helped shape my knowing that I can't inherently know what's going on.

Same.

[bfj]

What you've shared here over the years has absolutely helped shape my knowing that I can't inherently know what's going on.

Same.

My job here is done. Good bye everyone.