Backpacking thread (even if I just talk to myself)

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:20 am

So, in December, just kinda realized that I want to learn and begin backpacking. Also, after a brief investigation, realized how much I don't know about backpacking. In any event, general goal is to be ready for a weekend overnight or two nights trip over memorial day weekend with Jen. So far, have a good book on "how to" and a really good book on "where to" and a backpack, and will begin accumulating the other stuff needed over the next six months (along with working on long walks and adding weight etc to the practice walks).

I have gotten what seems like good advice from some friends so far:

---don't skimp on rain gear and protection for packs
---extra shoes for when you make camp
---etc.

Was wondering if any of the swampers still around have ever really done this kind of overnight backpacking? I would guess Mr. C was one who did, but haven't seen him around since I got back.

In any event, just turned 44, and seems like a good time to learn something new and do it before I get to old to. Feels weird to realize that the clock is ticking, but, in some respects, I guess it is.

Kinda looking forward to something completely new in terms of experience in any event.

Unless I walk off a cliff, then, not so much.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:37 am

My great uncle (dead ringer for Kevorkian) stayed fit as he got older by mall walking. I imagine they'd let you bring a backpack along.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:39 am

mister d wrote:My great uncle (dead ringer for Kevorkian) stayed fit as he got older by mall walking. I imagine they'd let you bring a backpack along.

They get mad if you pitch a tent by the fountain though.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:41 am

tennbengal wrote:
mister d wrote:My great uncle (dead ringer for Kevorkian) stayed fit as he got older by mall walking. I imagine they'd let you bring a backpack along.
They get mad if you pitch a tent by the fountain though.

Only if children are nearby.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:42 am

Gunpowder wrote:
tennbengal wrote:
mister d wrote:My great uncle (dead ringer for Kevorkian) stayed fit as he got older by mall walking. I imagine they'd let you bring a backpack along.
They get mad if you pitch a tent by the fountain though.

Only if children are nearby.

Nice. You already won the swamp day with that.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:53 am

"Wow, 4 replies from your internet friends already! What did they say?"

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:58 am

I never ever share what my internet friends say.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:02 am

Looking forward to your stories. My oldest will be a boy scout in a few years, and I'll likely borrow some of your knowledge.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:36 am

What kind of distance are you doing?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:48 am

P.D.X. wrote:What kind of distance are you doing?

Low and slow appears to be the best course for just starting out is my guess. Hoping to cover maybe 10-12 miles a day for our first excursion. Some elevation change with the route I am considering in western maryland.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:22 am

On that short of a trip I don't think you can screw up too badly to be honest. This would be horrible advice on a longer trip but first time out take anything you might think you need and post-trip evaluate what you didn't really need (and then weight the items in question.) This will help you pare down your weight for future trips. You'll be surprised what you don't really need and what it weighs.

(Obviously don't be an idiot about packing heavy stuff, but you know what I'm saying.)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:29 am

yeah if there's not much elevation change you should be ok. Otherwise bring extra layers due to temperature change at higher elevations.

My dilemna is always water. 10 miles is quiet a trek so you'll need lots of water, but water is heavy.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:34 am

Aimed date for first overnight trip is Memorial Day weekend - hoping not too much worry about cold then - but won't assume that it cannot get coldish that late. Total for the trip I want to do is 37 miles - so two night sleeping out in the circuit.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:35 am

degenerasian wrote:yeah if there's not much elevation change you should be ok. Otherwise bring extra layers due to temperature change at higher elevations.

My dilemna is always water. 10 miles is quiet a trek so you'll need lots of water, but water is heavy.

Filters are your friend.

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:14 pm

I think this book has been talked about here, but it seems relevant. A Walk in the Woods.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:19 pm

Naturally:

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:20 pm

I haven't done any overnight backpacking trips yet, but it's always been a goal of mine. I've been reading up on stuff and accumulating equipment over the last few years to eventually make it a reality.

Here are a couple of other suggestions based on my own camping experiences or from what I've read:

- Invest in a good camping mat. It will provide a modicum of comfort, but the main benefit is it gets you off the cold earth under your tent. The waffleboard ones are OK, but you can get a good self-inflating one for about $50 or so.

- When comparing equipment for a purchase, almost always buy the item that weighs less. Ounces can accumulate quickly, and the lighter your pack, the better. Titanium gear is your friend for this specific reason.

- Always leave a planned itinerary with someone you know, and always pack at least one more day's worth of food in case you get lost or injured.

- Practice using all of your gear before you hit the trail, especially your water filtration system and cooking gear.

- I have no idea what you're planning on doing for food, but I bookmarked this site a while ago and thought it was an interesting way to plan meals for the trail: http://sectionhiker.com/freezer_bag_cooking/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. That entire site is a great resource for useful backpacking info.

- Get some seam seal and seal the shit out of your tent and backpack.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:35 pm

Also, Grandma Gatewood's walk is a great read about the first female to do the entire AT.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:08 pm

I'm deeply envious! My backpacking days are likely done. But, oh, I've had some great times in the backcountry. I think of them sometimes when I can't get to sleep.

The most important advice I can offer is that you don't have to be in a Place With Famous Name to have a splendid adventure. Actually, more famous can be a bad thing. A Great Place with a crowd ceases to be so great. At least for me. So, for example, while I lived in California, I never went near Yosemite, the Pacific Crest Trail, or the Sierra Nevada. Anything I had heard of, I ruled out. However I had excellent California backpacking trips in the Trinity Alps east or Eugene/Arcata and on the Lost Coast in the King Range south of Petrolia. They had the great advantage of being devoid of company I didn't know. Back when Elvis still rocked, I did a four week trip in Wyoming. But in the Wind River Range rather than the Tetons. We saw one other party during that delirious time. None of these are obscure places. But they are obscure enough. And there are astonishingly great 'B list' spots everywhere in America where there are famous 'A list' places. It just takes a bit of research.

I echo the advice about water filtration devices. It's annoying to use any of them, but don't skimp on the technology. Whatever the rating, it will be slower, especially over time. I'd bring iodine ills, just in case the goddam thing goes on the fritz. Filters clog, plastic parts break. Don't get a lifetime case of giardia because a 50 cent part fails.

More rather than less sleeping pad. Anything will work, unless you are sleeping on granite. And packing a lighter pad looks like an obvious way to economize. But a better pad will pay for the extra weight you carry with less discomfort for the many hours you are on it. I prefer the kind that self-inflate and then are finished by being blown-up. Note, however, a short pad is fine. Padding below your knees doesn't matter much in most cases, and you can make a pillow for your head from spare clothes. But hips definitely matter, the more as you get older.

Consider a route with fishable bodies of water. But don't count on eating fish when you pack for the trip. After you catch a trout, it's a delight to be able to toss some now-uneeded dried potato flakes into the woods. And fishing is a very nice way to pass the time in the wilderness, whether or not you catch something edible. Note that this is not fishing at the cottage. Be prepared for persistent, unwanted company around the campfire unless you carefully dispose of entrails and scraps at a distance.

Topo maps. Can't have enough, and they can't be detailed enough. They allow you to go where others might not go. And they can get you out of trouble you just know you won't get in. GPS is optional; topos mandatory.

Matches. They fail. Even the expensive infallible kind, kept in a waterproof container. And they get lost. Take more. Split them between two packs. Consider also carrying a propane lighter for convenience. But don't count on this alone.

Make absolutely sure the tent seams are sealed, bottom to top. Don't depend on what a pal said about his tent that you're borrowing. Or about how your tent worked two years ago. Trust, but verify. Water where it doesn't belong can wreck a trip, and even threaten your safety. There is no trip where this doesn't matter. I've camped securely in snow above 10,000 feet without a tent. But I once had a little problem with hypothermia deep in the Everglades when my 'there's no winter in Florida' prep was a bit too casual. There were close encounters with rattlers and gators, but it was the tent that was the biggest safety problem. Though perhaps that's because I didn't see the gator that walked by my tent ('that's what a gator trail looks like?'), and didn't recognize the pygmy rattler sitting where I dropped my pack as a member of the rattlesnake family (of which I am quite terrified.)

It can get a lot colder than you think. Hope is not planning. Be paranoid; look up the record monthly cold where you're going. Now imagine it being wet and windy as well. There are under-prepared fools who can testify that the Everglades can hit the 30s in winter. Anyplace high-up can hit the 20s in summer. But this is a general truth, about every place you can carry a pack. Prepare. Layers; skip bulky jackets. Hat. Gloves. Forego cotton.

Sneakers are dangerous. They're comfy, but you are taking a chance if you hike in them with a heavy pack or on rocky terrain. Consider the downside of 6 months of plantar fasciitis as a penalty for that cool only-two-hour day hike up of rock-hopping up the riverbed. What sneakers are good for: camp shoes, stream crossings (to keep boots dry), easy hiking on soft terrain. The newer, lighter hiking boot technology makes sneakers obsolete for many backpacking scenarios where they once were a reasonable risk in the era of the Really Big Leather Boots. I still have my fabulous pair from the aforementioned days of Elvis. I can't throw them away, just in case I need to strap on the crampons and execute a daring glacier rescue with the heli team. Until that day comes, they are just dark objects that get in the way at the back of the closet.

Moleskin and tape. Blisters happen, even with broken-in boots. For example, hiking can be wet. Rain, river crossing, etc. Wetness + friction = blisters. Many a trip has been ruined by them. Duct tape -- handy for other things -- works in a pinch.

It's not old school. But today I would break down and take a very small AAA LED flashlight, for both safety and convenience. Bad things can happen after dark.

Painkillers. Because things can happen anytime, to anyone. Cactus spines. Falling rocks. Falling you. Altitude. Sprains. Suffering is of course good in the course of a wilderness trip. Good for character, good for stories, good to make it feel terrific when it stops. But excessive suffering can spoil an otherwise sublime time.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:16 pm

Thanks all, much appreciated. Good help.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:57 pm

I used to backpack a crapload. I agree with the suggestions here, and wholeheartedly endorse the sleeping pad idea. You don't need a super expensive one, just a comfortable one. Try before investing. Also,check with your local EMS/REI for a beginning backpacking course. They are typically great classes and cover things that you (or us) wouldn't think of.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:51 am

My parents decided to get into backpacking when I was about 11. They started with this book:

Backpacking, One Step At A Time.

Probably the best trip we did was doing the High Divide in Olympic National Park back in '88. Took about 5 days and it was spectacular.

The only advice I would give is get a good pair of boots, and take a lot of day hikes/walks to get them broken in before you go.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:19 am

1. Put a black bin bag in your rucksack as a liner, it will protect everything in there from rain and is cheap.
2. Always pack your heavy stuff at the top of your rucksack and always tighten your pack belt, it helps with the load you carry.
3. Always take a few very high calorie bars with you, they are great when you are tired.
4. Always know how to pitch your tent before you leave and hang it to air when you get home.
5. You can never have enough water proof containers for whatever basics you have (matches etc).
6. Buy a decent map case, nothing worth than having a wet map and learn how to use a compass.
7. Don't rely on any technology, it can and will break at annoying moments.
8. Spend money good socks, you will never regret this.
9. If you are buying stuff, make it small. Torches etc...

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:01 pm

This is a hobby I'd love to take up as well. Just not in the cards for the fam at this point (or maybe ever for my wife, who much prefers a comfy hotel bed).

So, I'm enjoying by extension.

DC's post was fantastic, by the way. Just great stuff.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:47 pm

Who doesn't prefer a hotel bed? At least a good one. But the process of getting to the bed's locatin can be vastly superior in the wilderness. And waking up to a mountain lake is often superior to a hotel coffee shop.

There's also the popular argument from the 'doing it for the kids character development' angle. So too 'family bonding.'

There are ways to start the ball rolling towards full-scale wilderness backpacking without pushing the envelope that much. Consider car camping with a tent and a campsite, but in a place that is both cool and uncrowded. Then day hike from that base.

Another approach is renting a cabin in a wilderness area. The security of four walls and a metal roof may be a key sales point. And you can bring your own boat, bikes, luxury bedding, coffee maker, liquor collection, and cooler full of heavy perishables, if not a modern toilet. It's a wonderful option with kids who might preclude backpacking. In my experience, you have to rent a long in advance in the best of places. I've had some fabulous wilderness experiences in state-owned cabins. Great places and no crowds. We once spent a summer week on an idyllic shoreline of Lake Michigan without seeing another human being. That cost less than one night in a good hotel. An especially cool angle is renting a cabin in winter. You have to have the right approach to get in; check carefully on what they say about the roads in winter. We've managed unplowed roads in a Subaru with modest Thanksgiving snow cover. Another time, we parked at the end of a plowed gravel road and skiied in towing plastic sleds loaded with gear.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:43 am

I like camping, but not so much hiking. That's probably because beer is heavy. But I could see renting a nice cabin and then doing some hiking out, then be back for dinner.

I'd suggest taking as light a camera as possible. New phones are really good of course, but I am a camera snob. I like the little Nikons with the changeable lenses for this type of thing.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:24 am

The government-owned cabins I've been in aren't conventionally 'nice.' They typically have a single room, concrete floors, minimal windows, no electricity (so they're dark), wood stove heating, no plumbing (there's a pump outside), and non-luxury outhouses. But they are in locations that would cost you $50M if they were in the Hamptons. All yours for $100 or so.

And a dark, cold cabin can be converted into a wonderful, intimate place with some firewood, a few lanterns, and people you love. Also, good beer. Add a wonderful day hike in or kayak outing, and you come home to the nicest living quarters you've ever experienced. If you can cook, you'll have a tremendous meal. Peace and beauty are the unparalleled mood-altering drugs.

There are downsides besides the primitive aspects of government cabins. For example, being in the middle of an active deer hunting area. Nearby gunfire adds a certain adventure factor that's not for everyone. Bloody trails in the snow add a certain mystery that some would avoid, at least if they are with their kids. And if it rains for days at a time, you can get cabin fever. If you don't love your companions, or your beloved kids are not well-behaved, there's not much escape. Sitting by yourself in the car for a few hours might offer the only respite.

Also, if you're in a remote cabin, it will be less convenient to watch the Lions being jobbed by NFL management and their striped hit men. Not that this sinister conspiracy still bothers me.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:35 am

Right, I didn't mean well-appointed. Mostly just a shelter with a cot. Keep you out of any rains and give you a place to call the base for a couple of days.

Let it be noted I've never done this, but would not be against it.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:57 am

I've never seen a cot. Mostly big, heavy bunk beds and single beds with hard, four-inch mattress pads. I think they design criteria is to handle the maximum sleeping load possible, and to be indestructible. Also, in case of Indian attack you can stack these things up to block the door.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:47 pm

Rush2112 wrote:I used to backpack a crapload. I agree with the suggestions here, and wholeheartedly endorse the sleeping pad idea..

Yes. To make it simple, just get a Thermarest.

Also, if there's an REI around your neck, hit up their garage sale. Lots of stuff that was returned items that you can get for cheap.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:51 pm

Tom 1860 wrote:1. Put a black bin bag in your rucksack as a liner, it will protect everything in there from rain and is cheap.

If you're buying a new or newish-used pack, you should definitely get one that has a built-in waterproof cover. (This usually is housed somewhere in the pack and then you just pull it out and snap it over when it starts raining.)

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:21 pm

P.D.X. wrote:
Tom 1860 wrote:1. Put a black bin bag in your rucksack as a liner, it will protect everything in there from rain and is cheap.
If you're buying a new or newish-used pack, you should definitely get one that has a built-in waterproof cover. (This usually is housed somewhere in the pack and then you just pull it out and snap it over when it starts raining.)

Yes, but the new stuff is soooooooo boring...

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:10 pm

Tom 1860 wrote:
P.D.X. wrote:
Tom 1860 wrote:1. Put a black bin bag in your rucksack as a liner, it will protect everything in there from rain and is cheap.
If you're buying a new or newish-used pack, you should definitely get one that has a built-in waterproof cover. (This usually is housed somewhere in the pack and then you just pull it out and snap it over when it starts raining.)

Yes, but the new stuff is soooooooo boring...

Right? If you're not rocking a Kelty from 1986 with giant grommets and exposed aluminum pipes, what's the point?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:13 pm

My Kelty was made long before that, and worked great a few years ago. I expect it to be a museum piece some day. Good design, built right. That's timeless.

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:15 pm

DC47 wrote:Who doesn't prefer a hotel bed? At least a good one. But the process of getting to the bed's locatin can be vastly superior in the wilderness. And waking up to a mountain lake is often superior to a hotel coffee shop.

Yeah, I should say that my wife does love the outdoors and we've gone on many day hikes. I think she's just not too keen on sleeping in a tent. She's looked longingly at some of those glamping places online. I always balk at the price tag and the sort of icky idea of having a four-star chef prepare me a meal while I'm "camping."

Me, I'd love to be in the position in my life to take six months and hike the AT. I think that'd be an awesome adventure. Too bad jobs, kids, mortgages, etc. get in the way.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:20 pm

Shirley wrote:
DC47 wrote:Who doesn't prefer a hotel bed? At least a good one. But the process of getting to the bed's locatin can be vastly superior in the wilderness. And waking up to a mountain lake is often superior to a hotel coffee shop.
Yeah, I should say that my wife does love the outdoors and we've gone on many day hikes. I think she's just not too keen on sleeping in a tent. She's looked longingly at some of those glamping places online. I always balk at the price tag and the sort of icky idea of having a four-star chef prepare me a meal while I'm "camping."

Me, I'd love to be in the position in my life to take six months and hike the AT. I think that'd be an awesome adventure. Too bad jobs, kids, mortgages, etc. get in the way.

Yeah, I was just going to say I'm thinking about requesting a leave of absence in 2016 to hike the AT. Fortunately I don't have kids, a job I especially like or a crushing mortgage. Would be nice to disappear for four months. Anyone wants to go with (other than Bronto) just let me know. I'm thinking northbound leaving May 1 for about 130-ish days ending on my birthday (Sept. 10)

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:28 pm

I get that people like to do a thing with a name attached to it. Like run a marathon race rather than just run, on their own, a really long distance. I've done the latter, but have never been moved to do the former.

But those who do the whole AT, PCT and the like -- and I've known several -- have long puzzled me. If I had the time to do the entire AT, I could instead do many one to two week back-packs in a diverse variety of fabulous places. Granted, the AT covers a lot of ground, and it's not all the same stuff. Maine is not Georgia. And a lot is fantastic; I've done several segments in multiple states and thought they were really fine. But doing the whole AT is a far less diverse wilderness experience than what you could get if you moved around the country a bit during a similar time frame.

I'd go for the more fantastic wilderness spots, and the greater diversity of experiences. But of course there's no one best way to experience the wilderness. Perhaps it just comes down to personality type.

Tom 1860 · Post by **Tom 1860** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:30 pm

P.D.X. wrote:
Tom 1860 wrote:
P.D.X. wrote:
Tom 1860 wrote:1. Put a black bin bag in your rucksack as a liner, it will protect everything in there from rain and is cheap.
If you're buying a new or newish-used pack, you should definitely get one that has a built-in waterproof cover. (This usually is housed somewhere in the pack and then you just pull it out and snap it over when it starts raining.)

Yes, but the new stuff is soooooooo boring...
Right? If you're not rocking a Kelty from 1986 with giant grommets and exposed aluminum pipes, what's the point?

No, that is not what I am saying and I have never owned an exposed aluminum framed backpack.

My point is that there needs to be a noticeable element of 'roughing it' when you go hiking (including overnight camping) or, what is the point of leaving your house?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:34 pm

Perhaps today this means a weak cell phone connection.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:36 pm

Nothing says luxury like a pack with a built-in rain cover.