Old Timey Music for Howard and DC

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:55 am

Sam Andrew was my favorite of the three primary guitar players who played with Janis Joplin.

But there was a fourth who cut a primitive rehearsal tape, prior to Joplin joining Big Brother, in a San Francisco kitchen while someone was typing nearby. This is the famous 'typewriter tape.' What if Joplin and her friend Jorma Kaukonen had formed a band together, instead of her joining Big Brother and him joining Jefferson Airplane? Well, the world would probably be a better place.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:43 am

Woke up early on Sunday and watched a good bit of a documentary on George Harrison. That led me to this video, and song, that I can't stop watching.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:24 pm

Those are a couple of gems. Thanks for posting, DC and Chedda.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:29 pm

Nice little number, though the lyrics seem a bit off. What is this 'younger than that now?' thing? The math doesn't actually work.

Band was okay. But couldn't they do with several fewer guitar players? Especially the old guy on the acoustic. You can't even really hear him. And he's not much of a singer. The guy in the white tennis shoes seemed to have a hard time getting a clear tone on his guitar. Perhaps an amp problem? Standards have really fallen -- he seemed to be grinning about it.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:38 pm

Speaking of guitar players...

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:59 pm

Cool. I've heard of this recording, but never heard it.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:01 pm

I've got it in the electronic format if you'd like to hear the whole thing.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:02 pm

That was quite a group, eh Rush?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:16 pm

Yeah, not too bad.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:30 pm

Rush2112 wrote:I've got it in the electronic format if you'd like to hear the whole thing.

Love to.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:55 pm

Here ya go [Link is only good for 2 weeks from this post]

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:04 pm

I have loved this song for 40 years.

That's old time!

Though you came with sword held high.
You did not conquer, only die.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:59 pm

The 70s spawned a bit of poor orchestral rock. But this is a great example of the way an orchestra can add to a rock composition. This version is far superior to the band only version (which is pretty good itself). This is majestic.

One thing I like about it is that the band and orchestra are 'on' at the same time. In many attempts to merge rock and orchestra they basically took turns playing. Not here.

Another high point is the drumming. This is full-on, rock and roll drumming. I have no idea who he is, but this drummer is killing it. And he's way up in the mix, so he's not subsumed by the orchestra. I'm also fond of the brass section. Many times 'orchestra' just means that they had a bunch of strings. The trumpet players doing the 'Spanish theme' sound great. But they're not there just for this obvious effect. For example, half way through they also add a lot when playing behind the guitar solo.

I wonder what other rock band + orchestra recordings -- not just mixing in some strings or a harpsichord part -- are this memorable?

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:29 pm

DC47 wrote:This is majestic.

Robin Trower shreads.

Proper pronunciation - not so much.

In a way it is a shame that Martin Scorsese (and his many imitators) caused Whiter Shade of Pale to be indelibly linked to a cinematic scene. Between the Hammond organ voiced like a big church organ and the Bach-like step-down progression, this tune sounds/feels quite orchestral w/o the orchestra. Or, with an orchestra:

(here is Joe Cocker's distinctly non-orchestral cover of WSOP:

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:36 pm

Pruitt wrote:I have loved this song for 40 years.

That's old time!

(Music starts at 1:00)

Though you came with sword held high.
You did not conquer, only die.

Not sure if I'm allowed in here (born in '78), but just wanted to chime in to say...fuck yes, this song. Heard it for the first time a few years ago on a classic rock station and was floored that it somehow doesn't get more regular play. It's a masterpiece. Enough to forgive that he mispronounces the title word.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:02 pm

howard wrote:
DC47 wrote:This is majestic.
Robin Trower shreads.

Proper pronunciation - not so much.

(here is Joe Cocker's distinctly non-orchestral cover of WSOP

I'm not sure that's Trower. Not his tone. At the least not his tone on the solo albums. And Procol Harum had massive turnover apart from Booker; Trower wasn't there long.

As usual, Cocker can really cover a song. I like the original better for it's dominant, majestic organ playing. But Cocker nails the vocal, and has a nice band. The soulful backing vocals add a new touch. Nice guitar solo. And the drummer is avoiding a bunch of drum cliches and instead quietly doing some good things.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:15 pm

Unrestrained power-trio Robin Trower.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:44 pm

DC47 wrote: I'm not sure that's Trower. Not his tone. At the least not his tone on the solo albums. And Procol Harum had massive turnover apart from Booker; Trower wasn't there long.

Just looked it up. It's a guy named David Ball who was with them for two years.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:52 pm

DC47 wrote: I'm not sure that's Trower. Not his tone. At the least not his tone on the solo albums. And Procol Harum had massive turnover apart from Booker; Trower wasn't there long.

I didn't know if it was him. Yet, my statement stands - he shreds, as you have linked.

Jorma and Janis, wonderful. Could've been a helluva band, with Cassady on bass.

ETA: I might've been at that Trower Winterland show, if that was during spring break freshman year.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:15 pm

Pruitt wrote:
DC47 wrote: I'm not sure that's Trower. Not his tone. At the least not his tone on the solo albums. And Procol Harum had massive turnover apart from Booker; Trower wasn't there long.
Just looked it up. It's a guy named David Ball who was with them for two years.

Then David Ball shreds. I suppose it's no surprise. They weren't going to hire a bum to replace Robin Trower.

There were so many good rock guitar players in the '70s. I suppose that the Beatles saw to that. What could be more inspiring, on so many levels?

And so many of them seem to have disappeared without a trace, at least from my view. It can only be explained by there being a mid-sized Pacific island where guys like David Ball now reside. Hundreds, thousands of now-old, bedraggled guys laying in hammocks in the shade near the beach, washing their vintage Mustangs, hanging around the replica pub. Smoking a joint out back in the lot, drinking a cold one over there in the corner with some mates. When they're back home, each of them with an amp plugged into an outlet and their choice of electric guitar just a few paces away. Ready to play some hot licks and rockin' riffs. Like they did in that second band that folded too soon, after the one that had the hit record, that they were in for six months.

But they now live apart, in isolation from society, as they have no place at all in popular music. Perhaps this is the best option, in a cruel world.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:17 pm

howard wrote:I didn't know if it was him. Yet, my statement stands - he shreds, as you have linked.

Jorma and Janis, wonderful. Could've been a helluva band, with Cassady on bass.

ETA: I might've been at that Trower Winterland show, if that was during spring break freshman year.

That would be some kind of awesome. Time to review every audience shot.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:51 am

DC47 wrote:
I wonder what other rock band + orchestra recordings -- not just mixing in some strings or a harpsichord part -- are this memorable?

ELO?

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:44 am

Rush2112 wrote:
DC47 wrote:
I wonder what other rock band + orchestra recordings -- not just mixing in some strings or a harpsichord part -- are this memorable?
ELO?

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:19 am

Rush2112 wrote:
DC47 wrote:
I wonder what other rock band + orchestra recordings -- not just mixing in some strings or a harpsichord part -- are this memorable?
ELO?

Moody Blues?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:31 am

I have very mixed feelings about ELO and Jeff Lynne. They produced a lot of shite among their output, and Jeff Lynne's over-produced style was a pox on much of the pop music he touched in the early 80s. But, having said that, ELO did issue one great album imho (A New World Record), and I liked what Lynne did with Roy Wood when they were in The Move, pre-ELO.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:37 pm

ELO was my favourite band before New Wave/Punk hit.

Still listen to Eldorado on occasion.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:27 am

Been going down the late 60s-early 70s rabbit hole this evening.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:54 am

Those guys are great. Here's another:

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:42 am

Crazy how that record is structured. Awesome stuff split between Kooper and Bloomfield on side A and Stills and Bloomfield on the other.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:59 pm

Sat at the dentist with my youngest daughter for almost three hours this morning. After hearing some sort of Carpenters greatest hit collection play twice, it went into some sort of 70s/80s soft rock mix. Normally, I'm More accepting of that than others might be, but I forgot to make myself coffee before we left and my head was pounding and I was sleepy and it just wore on me. Then a a life line:

Yeah! Except after a couple of songs, including "I Can't Fight This Feeling Anymore" for at least the second time, "Eye in the Sky" played again. Just give me the drill next time.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:02 pm

Rush2112 wrote:Crazy how that record is structured. Awesome stuff split between Kooper and Bloomfield on side A and Stills and Bloomfield on the other.

Oh yeah, these are great cuts! Stong material, fine band, and room for Bloomfield to unwind. He was a monster. He studied at the feet of the great Chicago blues guitarists of the 1950s, and then took it somewhere all his own.

It's funny how sometimes great art comes out of sheer chance. The Super Session record is one of those cases.

As I understand it, the always entrepreneurial Al Kooper booked some session time in San Francisco after he was booted from Blood, Sweat and Tears (of which he was a founder). His idea was to try to cut an album on the cheap with Bloomfield and guys he knew from Chicago who were in Electric Flag (which was effectively broken up by Bloomfield).

They got some great stuff down on day one. But Bloomfield, who had serious heroin problems and may have also have been bipolar, didn't show up for day two. So Kooper called Steve Stills, who was bailing from Buffalo Springfield and lived in the area. He played the second day of the sessions. Kooper took the tapes from the two days, did a lot of editing and added (dubious to me) horn over-dubs.

Voila, this casual studio jam, that was cratered by Mike Bloomfield, became a best-selling album circa 1969. Ironically, it was probably Bloomfield's biggest commercial success.

This was a very improbable outcome. Most un-rehearsed studio jams produce garbage. The odds would be long on getting a releasable album out of two sessions, much less one that sold. But the music on both parts of Super Sessions (an ironic record name if there ever was one) was often great. There may have been no rehearsals, but the rhythm section knew each other well and they were tight. And these sessions had the immense benefit of capturing peak Bloomfield and Stills. And man, at their peaks, they could really play. Bloomfield, of course. Witness his blues work with Paul Butterfield in the years prior. But this record also captures Stills when he was capable of producing some great blues-rock guitar; Hendrix liked to jam with him. This part of his career is over-shadowed by the success Stills had when he moved in the folk-rock direction with CSN&Y.

I suspect that much of the success of Super Session had to do with the production genius of Al Kooper. He had amazing ears. In addition to being a legendary session man on the organ and piano, he did great work behind the console in a wide variety of genres, including the early (and best) stuff by Blood, Sweat and Tears and Lynyrd Skynyrd. Talk about two distinctive musical styles, as well as musicians with strong personalities -- he had both situations down cold. So figuring out what to do with the crazy blues jam sessions that became Super Sessions was just his kind of thing. A more typical mainstream record company producer (rather than a hip musician/producer) of the late 1960s -- and that's who was in charge in almost every case at that time -- would never have dared to try these sessions, and most certainly could never have pulled them off.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:35 pm

That Super Session record is one example of spectacular music that I completely failed to appreciate in my youth. Too young for this particular record, too narrow in my tastes for rock generally, and the explosion of cool music within my favored style during my college years. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I began to go back in time and learn to appreciate such bluesy and non-motown soulful stuff like this. Better late than never.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:28 pm

Apart from his role as a sideman with Dylan, I found out about Mike Bloomfield only in the early 70s. It was only then that I heard much of what he had done years earlier with Butterfield and on his own. Here was a guy from roughly my generation, carrying on the Chicago blues tradition in an authentic way. But having the ability to both play the blues sound of early-60s Chicago and also a more psychedelic rock style, rooted in those blues. And he was clearly into Coltrane. It was entrancing.

Yet when I was living north of SF in the later 70s and 80s, not far from Bloomfield as I recall, I never saw him play. I saw people who were a big part of the blues scene and who frequently played with him (e.g., pianist Mark Naftalin was all over the Bay Area) -- but never Bloomfield himself. This had to do with Bloomfield's erratic schedule, but moreso the fact that as a blue-collar working man I didn't have much money or free time back then, and little connection to San Francisco where Bloomfield mostly played.

As I recall, by then Bloomfield was moving more into more traditional music (and not only blues), played acoustically as well as electrically. He was often a wreck -- drugs, bipolar disorder, who knows what -- but I imagine he still had a lot of what made him so good in his earlier incarnation as screaming blues-rock guitarist.

Bloomfield died young, presumably from a drug overdose (though this was often an erroneous claim with chronic users). I'm sorry to have missed hearing him in person. He was a great one.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:58 pm

This is fun

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:43 pm

One of the great songs. The overdubs are terrific. But the underlying track has some fine moments that I missed, and I've hear this song hundreds of times.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:05 am

You like that stripped-down version? Try Keith's roommate, Gram Parsons and his Burrito Brothers version:

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sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:26 am

I know it's a minority view, but if we're talking Gram-influenced Stones tunes, I much prefer Dead Flowers.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:27 am

Ginsburg + Dead. Nice.

Did they ever do anything together in the real world?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:35 am

howard wrote:You like that stripped-down version? Try Keith's roommate, Gram Parsons and his Burrito Brothers version:

That's tremendous, of course.

This is said to be Keith and a cassette recorder, circa early 1980s. The overdubs and especially the pedal steel playing are terrific on the Stones and Parsons versions. But this truly stripped-down version shows the essential brilliance of this song.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:47 am

Dead Flowers is way way up on my list. And that was decades before it appeared in The Big Lebowski. Making bets on Kentucky Derby day.