More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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The Sybian wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:28 pm
testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:38 am Both of the kids teams are in a league for the spring. I'm doing the scheduling for one of the teams and I'm finding that teams don't want to make the trip, but they don't seem to care much about us having a long drive. The farthest away game is in NJ. Probably 3.5 hours away.

It sounds like several of the league members are pushing to make us use a field in lancaster for all of our home games(1.5 hours away), but still travel to their fields for home games. We already picked a field that's 45 min closer for all of them, but they it's not good enough. One team wanted us to come down for a 6pm game on a tuesday. It's maddening.
What level league is that? That is some crazy travel for league games.
It's the APL. As far as I can tell it look's like it's a mid/high level league out of something like the EDP. We've played a few EDP teams and that seems about right for level of play. My kids aren't that high of a level, but there aren't many options for kids that want to play a lot and take it seriously. The other clubs in the area are either very casual or in it for the money. They both love to play and do their best, but they aren't going to become future pros. There are worse places we could spend money.

You guys are in some huge clubs. It has to be a mess to find what team/coach to work with. Being in separate soccering circles... are there any good summer camps you would recommend? The oldest is doing the Messiah College overnight camp this summer for the first time.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

testuser2 wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:49 pm
The Sybian wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:28 pm
testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:38 am Both of the kids teams are in a league for the spring. I'm doing the scheduling for one of the teams and I'm finding that teams don't want to make the trip, but they don't seem to care much about us having a long drive. The farthest away game is in NJ. Probably 3.5 hours away.

It sounds like several of the league members are pushing to make us use a field in lancaster for all of our home games(1.5 hours away), but still travel to their fields for home games. We already picked a field that's 45 min closer for all of them, but they it's not good enough. One team wanted us to come down for a 6pm game on a tuesday. It's maddening.
What level league is that? That is some crazy travel for league games.
It's the APL. As far as I can tell it look's like it's a mid/high level league out of something like the EDP. We've played a few EDP teams and that seems about right for level of play. My kids aren't that high of a level, but there aren't many options for kids that want to play a lot and take it seriously. The other clubs in the area are either very casual or in it for the money. They both love to play and do their best, but they aren't going to become future pros. There are worse places we could spend money.

You guys are in some huge clubs. It has to be a mess to find what team/coach to work with. Being in separate soccering circles... are there any good summer camps you would recommend? The oldest is doing the Messiah College overnight camp this summer for the first time.
Don't know anything about Messiah's camp but their D3 soccer teams on both the men's and women's side our powerhouses. They go deep in the tourney each year and have won a few national championships.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Our club had another big deal news this week. One of the 01s got an academy deal with Port Vale. Supposed to be a very good academy.....but it is the same league as Blackpool.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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The Sybian wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:32 am
rass wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:41 am https://mnjweb.azurewebsites.net/

Franklin has a pretty nice facility. Just porta-potties, though. At least as of last fall.

Older kid is due to play in BH on 3/18. The woman managing that team was unsure whether you guys would be playing yet or not at that point. I’ll let you know the details when I get them if you want.
Definitely let me know, my daughter likes to watch older kids play. We are in Milburn that day, time not set. I'll need pictures and a full review of the porta-potties.
Need you to go clear off the Snyder Ave Park turf. If it's snow-free, we'll be there at 1:30 this Sunday.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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rass wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:19 am
The Sybian wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:32 am
rass wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:41 am https://mnjweb.azurewebsites.net/

Franklin has a pretty nice facility. Just porta-potties, though. At least as of last fall.

Older kid is due to play in BH on 3/18. The woman managing that team was unsure whether you guys would be playing yet or not at that point. I’ll let you know the details when I get them if you want.
Definitely let me know, my daughter likes to watch older kids play. We are in Milburn that day, time not set. I'll need pictures and a full review of the porta-potties.
Need you to go clear off the Snyder Ave Park turf. If it's snow-free, we'll be there at 1:30 this Sunday.
They used to get shovel brigades to clear the field, but the County found out and flipped out. Apparently that voids the warranty on the turf. Looks like we are cancelled for Sunday, so that just might work out.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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I did my f-license training there. It’s a nice field.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

nearly 40 text messages and counting..

all because i would not vote to cancel today's training sessions since last night(9p)

i'm generally all for playing as long as its above freezing without rain. the kids are generally fine (u9 and above, so no 'little' kids) with the right gear on -- the parents stay in their cars and the coaches freeze their nads unless they participate.
so i waited until 330p to cancel it based on multiple source forecasts of snow starting within the hour going until 9 or so (then beginning again around 5a)

games aren't called for Cold. why would training be?
wasted beginning of the season as it is -- three weeks in, we've had one training session and one game (although the other club my son trains with, CSA, has gotten most of their sessions and games in and they're only 30mins away)

bahhh. least i'll get to continue sampling my sam adam's sampler at a decent hour instead of starting @10ish.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:09 pm
rass wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:19 am
The Sybian wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:32 am
rass wrote: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:41 am https://mnjweb.azurewebsites.net/

Franklin has a pretty nice facility. Just porta-potties, though. At least as of last fall.

Older kid is due to play in BH on 3/18. The woman managing that team was unsure whether you guys would be playing yet or not at that point. I’ll let you know the details when I get them if you want.
Definitely let me know, my daughter likes to watch older kids play. We are in Milburn that day, time not set. I'll need pictures and a full review of the porta-potties.
Need you to go clear off the Snyder Ave Park turf. If it's snow-free, we'll be there at 1:30 this Sunday.
They used to get shovel brigades to clear the field, but the County found out and flipped out. Apparently that voids the warranty on the turf. Looks like we are cancelled for Sunday, so that just might work out.
Yeah, and for good reason. What happens when you shovel it off is that all of those little rubber pellets stick to the snow and you are basically scraping the field clear of its cushion.

Bethesda SC paid for a good chunk of our high school field and of course those assholes scraped all the pebbles off (no one stepped up to tell them to cut it out). The following fall (after a particularly bad winter) WJ's field had a border of pebbles 2 yards wide and an inch thick.
Last edited by Nonlinear FC on Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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We had a fun little parents v. kids soccer game Sunday since most were still on vacation. One of the parents kicked a ball directly to my kid's face. I immediately ran over to her knowing she's very dramatic. She shed some tears, but overall was pretty cool about it. She liked the marks on her face like they were battlescars.

The funniest part about it is yesterday when she's getting ready for her first practice since, she says "I can't put on these clothes without thinking of that soccer ball hitting me in the face." She didn't like us bursting out laughing.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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So not soccer but still youth sports. Team does a fundraiser to pay for entry fee and coach travel for national tournament. Estimated at about 2 k. Team raises 2130( as of now)in fundraiser. Now it’s an issue because some parents thought whatever they raised went against their kids cost to go to nationals (including their personal hotel costs) whereas some thought it was a team thing and would apply to all team costs even if one girl raised more. My daughter raised money but there were a couple who raised more. I assumed it was all split even regardless. But two moms are hell bent on their money going to them. Well hell, just have the people that donated give you money instead of going through the online fundraiser, right?


We are going regardless but I really think The other moms are crazy because the fundraising is going to the club and I cannot imagine they will cut them refund checks to cover their expenses. It specifically says Additional money raised goes to the club for equipment and other fees.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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I look at it like school fundraisers. Everyone sells candles, but selling a hundred just helps school not your kid when it comes to fees for competitions or field trips. Some kids sell nothing and get ben fits of others. It happens.

(Also, apparently one kid raised nothing because they knew they weren’t going. Another kid raised money despite knowing they couldn’t go and she was very confused where her money was going. It is a ckisterfuck!)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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A_B wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:04 pm I look at it like school fundraisers. Everyone sells candles, but selling a hundred just helps school not your kid when it comes to fees for competitions or field trips. Some kids sell nothing and get ben fits of others. It happens.

(Also, apparently one kid raised nothing because they knew they weren’t going. Another kid raised money despite knowing they couldn’t go and she was very confused where her money was going. It is a ckisterfuck!)
100%. Never heard of it happening any other way. If a parent raised more money than the cost for their kid, do they think they get cash back, or free meals or something?
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B »

That seems to be the mindset of at least two parents, yes.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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So had for the first time had an issue with the other coach. U-12 low level travel (basically rec against other clubs). We have a rule when your team goes down by 5 the other team takes a kid off and another kid goes off after each additional goal. Opposing coach refused to take a kid off. I did not care but my league rep was there and was yelling at the high school ref and linesman. Made a scene. Also the team we are playing had kids with taped on numbers on random shirts (my kids think they had non-roster kids playing). I wrote it up in the required game report because our club rep was going nuts, but really..it is rec soccer.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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The Sybian wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:09 pm
A_B wrote: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:04 pm I look at it like school fundraisers. Everyone sells candles, but selling a hundred just helps school not your kid when it comes to fees for competitions or field trips. Some kids sell nothing and get ben fits of others. It happens.

(Also, apparently one kid raised nothing because they knew they weren’t going. Another kid raised money despite knowing they couldn’t go and she was very confused where her money was going. It is a ckisterfuck!)
100%. Never heard of it happening any other way. If a parent raised more money than the cost for their kid, do they think they get cash back, or free meals or something?
Typically, the way this is all mitigated is to provide some type of reward for raising money above a certain level. You get a club t-shirt when/if you raise the minimum, you get a draw sting tote bag if you raise x amount more, etc.

But cutting a check for excess or anything other than "it goes into the big pool" is people being insane.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B »

Based on an e-mail from the director, it looks like it will be applied to each kid and not to the team as a whole. But it isn't clear how any excess over what the cost for the nationals tournament will be handled. Which, whatever, like I said we were going anyway and it isn't going to be a huge deal because my kid did raise some money. But I could see it affecting some others who didn't raise at all.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Tryouts started last week...
lots of changes coming ..
new teams will have game day trainers, parent managers and roster to be based SOLELY on tryout rankings (not who the coach is, etc... although the 2011 team to be formed... the mayor's kid may get on it.. and he's called me multiple times this year to talk about this... ugh.. small town)... all for a team that will play 4v4 with no goalies int he fall..

current teams are encouraged to switch to game day trainer... but they are technically grandfathered... can't wait to get rid of the old guard coaches.. all about winning. lots of yelling.. think of their teams as THEIRs not the clubs...

true a/b teams.. where numbers allow it... the c team will play intercounty in a joint effort with the other club in town (same intials, but they are rec we are travel.. all one club 25 yrs ago.. Spencer Rockman anyone in NJ?)

it's not about winning but development - we are comfortable with our teams playing .500 ball as they go through middle school -- when they get to the hs they should be prepared (only on hs in town)
so the big question comes to this (and there are many.. good thing we're using website emails and my gmail is no longer out in public).. if we follow US Soccer (and we kind of have to) we play true age group teams.. but seems most parents don't give a crap and want their kids to play with their friends.. we have some of this.. but the kids that play up tend to struggle... the really good kids go off to the academies ..and most that have gone off to teh for-profit clubs are coming back disillusioned ... so does it really matter? is there a benefit for true age group teams? we're a small club (about 210 kids now), 15 teams..
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

So our club just quit the us soccer development academy and instead is an innagural ECLN boys club (ECLN was basically DA but only girls until next fall). The big reason.... High school soccer prohibition for DA teams.

Mixed feeling. Like kid playing high school ball but on my area that means these top notch kids playing both will take roster spots and pt from kids who are not DA quality but varsity level at our 2 local high schools.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:07 pm So our club just quit the us soccer development academy and instead is an innagural ECLN boys club (ECLN was basically DA but only girls until next fall). The big reason.... High school soccer prohibition for DA teams.

Mixed feeling. Like kid playing high school ball but on my area that means these top notch kids playing both will take roster spots and pt from kids who are not DA quality but varsity level at our 2 local high schools.
Just read a couple interesting takes on this:

https://socceramerica.com/publications/ ... occer.html


https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/y ... nl-status/

I became overwhelmed while researching the various academy options and leagues. It sounds like the DA system is phenomenal for those looking to go pro, but there are probably far too many DA teams, and it's draining the HS programs of top players. I see a plus side to having more kids in the DA program, casting a bigger net and missing fewer prospects for the National Teams, but it probably waters down the talent the top players play with and against. Who fucking knows, in some ways, this country is too damned big to properly scout and develop talent for a National Team.

After doing all my research, and taking advice from you guys and a dozen or so parents with kids in academy programs, we decided to keep my daughter on her travel club for another year. My wife and I both felt good about the decision, but now that the Spring season has started, we both feel like we might have made a mistake. I think the gap between my daughter and her teammates has grown. It didn't help that in our second game, it was 35 degrees, windy, and started raining. Most of my team quit on us. Some refused to go back in, and none of them played D. I was feeling like I made a huge mistake, and dreaded the thought of coaching this team for another year. My daughter was furious in the car home, as we were tied at the half, outplaying the other team, and then we gave up 5 goals in the second half.

We have 3 girls who are equivalent to playing down a player, a few others who have potential, but just don't have a concept of the game yet. I've been trying to get parents to get their kids to watch soccer on TV to get an understanding of positioning and movement off the ball, but they won't watch, and can't translate the concepts into games. To make it worse, we have only had one coaches practice all year, because the grass fields are still closed. My daughter is getting frustrated, because she is looking to pass, and usually has nobody to pass to. She is in a clinic now where she is the youngest kid, and it's mixed girls and boys. Playing with older boys, it's amazing watching her pick out passes, hit through balls, and splitting 3 defenders to hit a long pass. She is loving playing as a playmaker, but in her games, her only option is to try and dribble through the other team, and like she said, it isn't soccer, it's dribbling and shooting.

I was hoping we could get enough players to have B team, but I'm not optimistic. If nothing else, we should get a few more players, and since we have a maximum allowed roster, we could drop the bottom 3. We have 14 players for 7v7, which is way too many, but the club didn't want to cut anyone. Ideally, we get 20-24 players, and can run with a smaller roster.

Anyways, last minute panic last week, as my wife insisted we can't leave our daughter on this team. I thought we missed all of the academy tryouts, but we had time for sign up for one (STA). Signed up, reworked my schedule to make it possible, but its a 30 minute drive for a 4:00 tryout 2 days this week. Then, my daughter changes her mind and doesn't want to go. I didn't want to force her. She asked if she could tryout for the older team in our town travel program, so we are going to give that a go. In some ways, I think her current team would be better off without her, and dropping from Flight 1 to Flight 3 or 4. Most of the girls on the team don't belong in Flight 1.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Looking for a reality check on our expectations...

My co-coach sends out reminders before every game, telling the parents what time the game is, which uniform to wear, and a reminder that jewelry is not permitted. We always tell parents they need to be at the game 30 minutes early, because we have to check in with the refs and get warmed up.

My partner is off-the-charts Type A, so he insists on scripting the entire substitution chart for the game, and ensures the minutes are as close to even as possible. I used to review the lineups, as he would create intervals with no passable defenders or something similar. I keep telling him not to bother, because there is always one girl who doesn't show, or one who said they weren't coming, switched their attendance on the team management app to show they aren't coming, and then appear at the game anyways without notice.

So in addition to the e-mailed reminder, we have an app listing all games, including which uniform to wear. Almost 2 full years in, parents still get get this shit down. Yesterday, we had the assistant coach and his daughter no-show, and of course she was slated to start. He is always late, so we expected him to show up at game time. He didn't answer his cell, but sent an e-mail 10 minutes prior to arrival time, which we didn't see. We reminded all the players to take out jewelry before warming up, and make sure they all have water, and to get anything they need from parents, because every game at halftime, 1 minute before we restart, 2 of them suddenly need something from their parents. We have even told parents to give their kids everything they need before the game. So we can't start one girl because she forgot she had earrings in, another couldn't find her water in her bag mid-game, so another girl walked off the field while playing to get an extra water bottle for her. Another girl showed up 25 minutes late, wearing the wrong uniform. We are blue and white, playing a red team, so she shows up with the wrong shirt, and red socks. Again, she was supposed to start, but her mother had to slow motion saunter back to her car to drive home and get the right shirt. This same girl showed up late out of uniform earlier this year. The ref said she couldn't play in pants without her team shorts. She said they were in her car, then sat on the bench staring at me. I told her she needed to get them, and apparently her mother was complaining that I yelled at her. Mind you, she missed referee check in, and walked to the ref as we were kicking off, and he said she couldn't play in pants. Same kid shows up to practice 15 minutes late everyday, often without shin guards, which we won't let her play anymore. Her father coaches lacrosse, and was making fun of the idiot parents who sent their kids without pads to his first practice. Asshole, your kid is the worst offender on our team! And the mother is trying to be team manager now! Like we can trust her to schedule fields, coordinate with opposing coaches when she can't get her fucking kid to the game on time or in uniform?

Wow, didn't realize that rant was welling up. My partner is way more angry than I am about this, too. So my question, do all teams deal with this level of irresponsible parents? The girls are 8 and 9, so I don't put too much responsibility on them, but this isn't difficult.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

Definitely worse than what I deal with. People are sometimes late, especially on my younger kid's team, but everyone is pretty considerate. Haven't even had to fight with anyone about fundraising yet.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Man... Watching a lot of the girls I coached graduate in a month.. Seeing them at the pre-prom, others on Facebook as they start to commit to schools. I was talking to the parents of a couple of girls and they were saying really nice things about the team and how much they enjoyed having me as a coach. Got a little misty, and I got to missing the old days.

Holy shit do these posts remind me that I'm also VERY happy to be free and clear of it now. I'm not saying that to be discouraging... I'll never regret a second of my time coaching. But, yeah, I was pretty tired of the bullshit by the end.

=-=-=-=

With that said...

I think at 8/9, you actually do have to just accept that the players, but more importantly the parents, don't understand the repercussions of all of these "little" mis-steps and infractions. You have to be super patient... Until you feel like it's team meeting time. You ask all the parents to hang out after a game, you say this isn't about any one person, but you need to reset expectations. This is a travel team, and when people show up late, wearing the wrong socks/shirts, don't communicate about their whereabouts, it all adds up to a team culture that isn't focused on the right thing... not winning, but being in the mindset to play soccer and learn.

Dicking around with water bottles and hair ties and what socks are on my feet... That's not a player that is in the right place mentally.

Yeah, they're young... All the more reason to not have them stressed out about unimportant bullshit. And that's on the parents, 1000 percent.

And I think if you can frame it that way (without all my snark, of course), you can get the parents to understand the potentially positive role they can play (while obviously leaving the opposite implication pretty clearly on the table.)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Giff »

Man, I'm the assistant and I have a hard time getting there on time. I had an awesome mini meltdown two Saturdays ago when we were actually going to be on-time, but we somehow forgot her water.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

if you don't get the parents in line... the kids won't either.

your partner should get together w the head coach on my son's team -- he'd scrip everything he could.. as long as it resulted in a 5-0 win including a punt assist from the keeper.
scripting... it ain't the nfl.. you start your best team at each half.. go for at least ten minutes before making subs.. keep track of the time (good apps for that) so that at end of season when it comes up you can point and say look... your kid avg 20+min a game.. (or whatever time league and/or club require)

you get everyone on teamsnap -- set up game time on there to allow for 30min warm up/check in -- include notes on location and uniform (always bring both!!!)... oh yeah.. if they're late (they aren't starting...)

your girls are 2009s...some of that is expected... but for how much longer? as for the parents..

the teams i've been involved in .. have been very fortunate..w the parents but as nonlinear said.. got to set the tone.. set the culture and expectations.. then be able to make the hard choices (which no one ever wants to do in the suburbs, they rather rant about it on fb or some other forums)
and... always stick a bottle or two in the ice cooler/first aid kit -- someone either forgets it, loses it or spills it.. so good to have anyway.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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elflaco wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 3:59 pm if you don't get the parents in line... the kids won't either.

your partner should get together w the head coach on my son's team -- he'd scrip everything he could.. as long as it resulted in a 5-0 win including a punt assist from the keeper.
scripting... it ain't the nfl.. you start your best team at each half.. go for at least ten minutes before making subs.. keep track of the time (good apps for that) so that at end of season when it comes up you can point and say look... your kid avg 20+min a game.. (or whatever time league and/or club require)

you get everyone on teamsnap -- set up game time on there to allow for 30min warm up/check in -- include notes on location and uniform (always bring both!!!)... oh yeah.. if they're late (they aren't starting...)

your girls are 2009s...some of that is expected... but for how much longer? as for the parents..

the teams i've been involved in .. have been very fortunate..w the parents but as nonlinear said.. got to set the tone.. set the culture and expectations.. then be able to make the hard choices (which no one ever wants to do in the suburbs, they rather rant about it on fb or some other forums)
and... always stick a bottle or two in the ice cooler/first aid kit -- someone either forgets it, loses it or spills it.. so good to have anyway.
I don't blame the kids, I blame the parents for not checking the kids before they leave. My daughter would forget water half the time, so I ask if she has it before we leave. I keep her bag packed in advance, so she only needs to grab it. We use TeamSnap, and all that info is in there.

My partner sends out too much info at times, which may cause people not to read his e-mails. He has gotten better about that. Since we didn't get enough players last year at tryouts, we have some kids and parents who are rec league players/parents. IMO, travel asks for a higher level of commitment. Some of the kids don't have it, and that's fine, their parents signed them up, so I don't blame the kids. The parents who aren't willing to put in the commitment to have their kids dressed properly is the problem. I'm hoping the club lets my daughter play up, and I won't have to deal with this. I'll miss coaching, but the older group has 2 teams, and from what I've seen, the girls on the A team are more serious.

That leads to another rant. The club doesn't like to move players up, and won't move them up if it means a kid loses a spot. I think the older group has enough for 2 teams, with a roster spot or 2 to spare, but my team only had 18 sign up. They want a minimum of 20 for two teams, so losing my daughter might mean no B team for the younger girls. I've heard that in order for a kid to move up, they have to be rated in the top 5 of the group. There were 22 girls there, not sure my daughter was top 5. She is clearly better than several of the A team girls, but I don't know if she is better than 7 A team players. The older (2008) tryouts were immediately after the 2009s, and the same professional trainers rated both groups. On the plus side, she put on a show at the 2009s and set the tone of their impression of her, but on the downside, she played hard for an hour with one water break and no subs, then went into a second tryout. She ran out of steam for the last 10 minutes.

On the plus side, my daughter played a game with the 2008 B team a couple weeks ago (unfortunately, the week after they played Rass' younger daughter). The score was 6-4, and my daughter scored all six goals. My partner's daughter played in that game, and he told me he made sure the club knew about her performance, so hopefully they give her the opportunity to move up. He has been fantastic on easing my guilt of trying to move up, and telling everyone at the club she belongs up, and mentioned he would take her to an academy if it was his daughter, and they don't let her play up.

ETA: WRT scripting, we have 14 kids for 7v7, but we are always missing a few, and the number always changes. We can't put the best 7 out, because the drop off after our top 5 is huge, and then another huge drop off after the top 10. If we put the bottom 7 out together, we would get destroyed in a matter of minutes.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

just because you start the best 7 that day doesn't mean you play the bottom 7 together at once. that's just silly.

as for tryouts, playing up and all that...
i'm spending easily 15hrs a week on that stuff...tryouts end this week.. oh, the drama...

even with professional trainers.. the ratings are never 100%.. and there's always discrepancies where someone showed well or didn't... of course coaches kids end up being the 'best' or the 'worst'.. and our own perceptual lenses get the vaseline treatment when it comes to our own kids, so there's always that...
our board agreed we'd let the top 2 or 3 play up... if htey want to.. but only on established teams. starting with the 2010s.. no one plays up.at least nto starting out..
as for numbers..it depends what hte long term strategy is for full sided games..
i'm off!
need to take teh boy down to CSA for training.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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elflaco wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:56 pm just because you start the best 7 that day doesn't mean you play the bottom 7 together at once. that's just silly.

When we have 7 subs, and we are supposed to give everyone equal playing time, starting the 7 best doesn't work. We decided to start the second half of each game with our 3 best offensive players together, and the first 2 games we tried this, we caught the other teams napping and hit them with a goal in under a minute.

One of the plans the club proposed for next year is forcing us to take all 18 players on one team, and bring a rotating group of 14 (the maximum) to each game. If they make us do that, I'm out. That is such a bad idea on so many levels. The ideal number to dress for a game is 10, so rostering 12 is the most I would want. Our town has a rec league, so it's not like these kids don't have another option. The bottom 3 drag down the level of play dramatically, and they get no benefit playing in Flight 1. At some point, you need to cut loose some kids who don't belong on the team. I suggested creating a team of 7 to play festivals, where it's 4v4 or 5v5 games. No refs, lo pressure, and a lot of touches. This would be so much better for the less talented kids to get time on the ball in a game situation, rather than standing on a field avoiding the ball when they are overmatched.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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I think I tried the scripted substitution thing once or twice, but like you said, you never get the kids there who you think are going to be there. Or some kid isn't there 2 minutes before game time, so I furiously update the plan ... only to have him show up 10 minutes after the game starts.

I also (at younger ages) just started the first kids to show up. I don't know if that changed parents' behavior at all, but the kids quickly learned that it was better to get there early, and I think that helped. It also removed any subjectivity about who the starters are.

Another thing I did in rec (when they were younger) was brought a blanket to games. When a player wasn't in the game, they had to be on the blanket. When it was time to sub, any kid not on the blanket wasn't going in. That helped keep kids from wandering over to their parents to get water or whatnot.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

Before I forget, hey flaco Metuchen’s U12 girl’s team has some players.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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yes.. yes they do.
at least one of them plays EDP as well.

now for a mini rant...

in other news.. just got a call from the mayor.. this after he called me yesterday to advise we should move today's 2011 tryouts to friday due to baseball (no comment).. i agreed as it worked out better for scheduling purposes and gives us a chance to finalize assessments and get together w the new parent coach...
made all the changes in facebook and our website.. confirmed w the coach.. all set... then fb comments start.. some boys are going to a birthday partry...can't we start later (no, we have limited field space and other sessions begin @730)... i stand firm (but polite).

so mayor calls me to let me know it's HIS son's birthday party.. can there be a "mayor's exception"? WTF?

i told him we start at 6.. if they get there late no biggie --we've seen most of them 2x already... he says cool.. off we go....
of course not sure he knows we're not going with his suggestion for coach (ah, the emails about that, mostly vs his choice.. priceless.. ) i'm truly hoping my son makes CSA.. won't double card and i'll be able to walk away.. of course i'll be cursed as the guy who started a bunch of changes and then left travel to go EDP.... for some of these folks it's not about the kids.. its about them being able to say my kid plays travel soccer... wonder what will happen when we announce cuts (12 boys, 6 girls to join teams that play 4v4... they want us to have two 9 player teams.. everyone gets in....).. they just want a club they can put their kids in.. have them go to 'tryouts' that don't matter because the coaches choose(the very change i'm putting in place this year) their friend's kids and all are happy (while most don't get a chance to develop) not to mention then they want their teams flighted in mid-level flights so they don't get a chance to lose much less get creamed and they always come out roses.... wtf is wrong with america? oh yeah. bunch of pussies.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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elflaco wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 10:05 am yes.. yes they do.
at least one of them plays EDP as well.

now for a mini rant...

in other news.. just got a call from the mayor.. this after he called me yesterday to advise we should move today's 2011 tryouts to friday due to baseball (no comment).. i agreed as it worked out better for scheduling purposes and gives us a chance to finalize assessments and get together w the new parent coach...
made all the changes in facebook and our website.. confirmed w the coach.. all set... then fb comments start.. some boys are going to a birthday partry...can't we start later (no, we have limited field space and other sessions begin @730)... i stand firm (but polite).

so mayor calls me to let me know it's HIS son's birthday party.. can there be a "mayor's exception"? WTF?

i told him we start at 6.. if they get there late no biggie --we've seen most of them 2x already... he says cool.. off we go....
of course not sure he knows we're not going with his suggestion for coach (ah, the emails about that, mostly vs his choice.. priceless.. ) i'm truly hoping my son makes CSA.. won't double card and i'll be able to walk away.. of course i'll be cursed as the guy who started a bunch of changes and then left travel to go EDP.... for some of these folks it's not about the kids.. its about them being able to say my kid plays travel soccer... wonder what will happen when we announce cuts (12 boys, 6 girls to join teams that play 4v4... they want us to have two 9 player teams.. everyone gets in....).. they just want a club they can put their kids in.. have them go to 'tryouts' that don't matter because the coaches choose(the very change i'm putting in place this year) their friend's kids and all are happy (while most don't get a chance to develop) not to mention then they want their teams flighted in mid-level flights so they don't get a chance to lose much less get creamed and they always come out roses.... wtf is wrong with america? oh yeah. bunch of pussies.
How is Metuchen's 2009 girls team doing? What a shit show that was in the fall. We played in the same group as them at SoFive this winter, and they tied someone in the consolation game, and won in the shootout. We heard some parents saying that is the only game they won in any competition all year.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

they dropped down to flight 4 are are competitive -- think they've won't a couple of games. still don't have a standout player -- but they are playing vs kids somewhat near their level so no longer getting blown out.

of course the coach came up to me two weeks ago and said he is taking his kid to VSA (Valencia Soccer Academy) -- i told him he should look at them carefully as most kids in town who left to play there are coming back.. but hey.. it's his $3000.. so what do i care..

then find out he was recruiting his team to go to VSA.
so his assistants deposed him.
fuck that guy.

change in coaching is going to help them out -- plus we're assigning a game day trainer.
big problem with our program is that we're so small we have to make sure to plan for full sided teams from the get go --as they aren't coming in droves from edison (well, they have cricket..) to play futbol.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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elflaco wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 12:46 pm they dropped down to flight 4 are are competitive -- think they've won't a couple of games. still don't have a standout player -- but they are playing vs kids somewhat near their level so no longer getting blown out.

of course the coach came up to me two weeks ago and said he is taking his kid to VSA (Valencia Soccer Academy) -- i told him he should look at them carefully as most kids in town who left to play there are coming back.. but hey.. it's his $3000.. so what do i care..

then find out he was recruiting his team to go to VSA.
so his assistants deposed him.
fuck that guy.

change in coaching is going to help them out -- plus we're assigning a game day trainer.
big problem with our program is that we're so small we have to make sure to plan for full sided teams from the get go --as they aren't coming in droves from edison (well, they have cricket..) to play futbol.
That coach was an asshole. Out of every coach we've dealt with in leagues, tournaments, festivals..., he was the only one we had any problems with. In scheduling, and during the game. Oh yeah, and telling us the turf field is a bacteria incubator so we better shower before driving home. That made me realize how lucky I've been with opposing coaches, not one has been super gungho competitive even playing in Flight 1 and against academy teams in tournaments. Actually, most of the Academy coaches like at DTS are really young, and clearly don't care about the outcome of the game, which is actually good. We've developed a great rivalry with Bloomfield, as every game has been a tie or one goal loss for us. They play very physical, but never dirty, and I'm surprised to see my team battles physically with them. Bloomfield games are the only games the competitive streak got the better of me, my partner went apeshit when his daughter saved a penalty shot in a zero zero game with 5 minutes left, but we all were giddy after our last 3 games over how exciting they were. Last week they beat us by one on a last minute free kick. They brought back a girl who went to an academy, and had her take the kick. The coaches apologized before the game for bringing her, but they were short handed, and again for her taking the kick.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Shirley wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 5:24 pm I think I tried the scripted substitution thing once or twice, but like you said, you never get the kids there who you think are going to be there. Or some kid isn't there 2 minutes before game time, so I furiously update the plan ... only to have him show up 10 minutes after the game starts.

I also (at younger ages) just started the first kids to show up. I don't know if that changed parents' behavior at all, but the kids quickly learned that it was better to get there early, and I think that helped. It also removed any subjectivity about who the starters are.

Another thing I did in rec (when they were younger) was brought a blanket to games. When a player wasn't in the game, they had to be on the blanket. When it was time to sub, any kid not on the blanket wasn't going in. That helped keep kids from wandering over to their parents to get water or whatnot.
Yeah we just did a rotation and watched the clock closely (that was my job, and I enlisted the girls on the bench to make sure I didn't get distracted.) With the iPhone timer, it was pretty easy.

And if you didn't start the game, you started the second half.

This stuff gets easier the more kids you can throw out there, btw. 14 kids for 7 slots means you're changing out your entire roster every shift (obviously). When you've got a full 18 but there are 11 slots to fill, even if you do a full substitution, you're still able to keep some continuity going. (And you are never going to have 7 subs once you get to that point.. Be happy with 4 or 5.)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian »

Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 3:50 pm
Shirley wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 5:24 pm I think I tried the scripted substitution thing once or twice, but like you said, you never get the kids there who you think are going to be there. Or some kid isn't there 2 minutes before game time, so I furiously update the plan ... only to have him show up 10 minutes after the game starts.

I also (at younger ages) just started the first kids to show up. I don't know if that changed parents' behavior at all, but the kids quickly learned that it was better to get there early, and I think that helped. It also removed any subjectivity about who the starters are.

Another thing I did in rec (when they were younger) was brought a blanket to games. When a player wasn't in the game, they had to be on the blanket. When it was time to sub, any kid not on the blanket wasn't going in. That helped keep kids from wandering over to their parents to get water or whatnot.
Yeah we just did a rotation and watched the clock closely (that was my job, and I enlisted the girls on the bench to make sure I didn't get distracted.) With the iPhone timer, it was pretty easy.

And if you didn't start the game, you started the second half.

This stuff gets easier the more kids you can throw out there, btw. 14 kids for 7 slots means you're changing out your entire roster every shift (obviously). When you've got a full 18 but there are 11 slots to fill, even if you do a full substitution, you're still able to keep some continuity going. (And you are never going to have 7 subs once you get to that point.. Be happy with 4 or 5.)
When we had a full roster a couple times last year, we did the full squad rotation. I wrote about it at the time, as it blew up in our face. We have one cunty parent who got into a very lengthy e-mail argument with my partner, and scheduled a 45 minute pregame chat. Her older son plays for a team that one the State Cup, and anything we do differently than his coach is wrong. This includes throwing a team party after the Fall season. She sent passive aggressive e-mails to the mother who volunteered to organize the party. "It's just not how it's done!" Meanwhile, another town club team had their party at the same time in the same restaurant... Anyways, she told us subbing 7 at a time is wrong, she had never seen it in her life, and she told one of the guys who runs the club (who called us laughing, saying that's what he would do). Even when we switched around the girls on the lines and kept them even, she complained that it ruined the continuity of the game. I don't see how subbing 2 players every 2 minutes is any better for continuity, then the ball doesn't go out forever and it's all fucked. This mother also complained about unequal playing time in a game when we were ready to sub, and the ref called a penalty kick, and spent 2 minutes setting it up, explaining the rules, then calling for a second kick when a player ran in early. It ended up being 4 minutes, and the ref didn't stop the clock or add time. So yeah, some kids got extra time, but it wasn't exactly productive playing time. This mother insisted we use the app her sons coach uses, which tracks playing time for every player. We didn't, but I think she tracks it during games. We have a couple girls with no stamina who ask for breaks, and a couple who never get tired, so the equal time thing is out the window. Kids who want to play and have the stamina get more time.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Shirley »

Man, thank dog I never had to deal with parents like that. I coached a bunch of my sons' teams - soccer, basketball, and lacrosse - and never had to deal with overbearing parents. My biggest problems were the parents who were the opposite - brought kids late, or missing something, or didn't show without telling us, etc.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Shirley wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 5:24 pm Man, thank dog I never had to deal with parents like that. I coached a bunch of my sons' teams - soccer, basketball, and lacrosse - and never had to deal with overbearing parents. My biggest problems were the parents who were the opposite - brought kids late, or missing something, or didn't show without telling us, etc.
What's funny is she is completely silent at games. Actually, she requested we inform the rest of the parents that the league prohibits parents from giving instructions during a game. When I heard video clips my wife took, I had to agree with her. She made a point of noting how she follows the rule and never gives instructions. Her daughter is the sweetest kid, and always eager to go wherever we place her, and with a big smile. She is on the cusp of making the A team if we get a B team. We'd be sad to see her go, but happy to lose her mother. I've never said a word to her husband. One practice he stayed and watched. He was the first one there, so my partner said a few words to him. The husband commented on all the shit we take as coaches, and basically apologized and subtly eluded to the fact that his wife is the problem. I assume he is completely browbeaten, as he comes across as an abused dog. Her older son is in my son's grade. I need to find her rant from the class Facebook forum. They did some sort of program where once a month, they meet in small groups to discuss issues they face and meditate. The school sent an e-mail to the students, but not the parents. She raged about the school experimenting on her child without her consent or knowledge. I was tempted to say they didn't tell the parents first, because they would get 200 different opinions on how to run the program.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

[....and breathe...]

man... last official night of tryouts (except we expanded for two age groups on friday...the aforementioned 'mayor's exception'...

so one of our board members emails me asking why did we cancel the 3rd session for the 10G tryouts... i tell her we only had 7 show up... none are very good so we're going to ask them to try out for the 09G team (being reformed.. thru thsi season a consistent flight 1 winner last three years but breaking up as the coaches are taking their kids to edp clubs)... i hear nothing else. go to the field at 7..set up for the 05B new team tryout...
just before it starts her husband comes at me... and proceeds to rant for 15+ minutes about not being able to be involved, the unfairness of it, why cant we form a new 10G team and have the 11G play up... is it a good idea to have boys and girls on same u8 team (play 4v4.. no issue at that age).. blah, blah, blah... i made promises... blah, blah.. i remind him that we introduced him as someone who wants to coach.. not that he has a team to coach.. regadless. he takes his bunched up panties and walks off.
i go run the tryout .. he eventually comes back and i give him a clipboard.
then his kid (yeah, one 05 boy and 10 girl... their 07 boy is the best player in town under 14 so of course he's EDP) throws a fit in the session and sits... then his mother shows up and is giving me the stink eye (she's Colombian too so that's a whole nother thing)..

then the rec president shows up -- he has 6 kids playing intercounty on the 05.. and is bringing them over (our joint plan to put clubs together as one in next year).. so of course this guy and the other don't get along...
what a cluster.
i need rec guy. would like to keep the other couple involved (she's a good board member, does a lot of volunteer stuff) but they are too much about their kids and not enough about the overall club (which i guess is hard to do and most people will make decisions based on how it affects them) and that's not good enough for me...hell i'm not letting my boy play up (and he can) as he would take a spot from an 05 and that would be wrong
[not saying i'm a saint -- far from it but if you're doing something as a volunteer then you better stick to your philosophy/beliefs)

attending rec board meeting tonight to show unity
have a board meeting next thursday that some want to have tomorrow (but missus is on her way to Balto so no chance)

and you know what... those 75+ minutes i spent running a session with 20 kids.. that was awesome. it was purely football. no town politics. no bullshit. just the kids and the ball and trying to acomplish something.. it was a tryout but more like a practice session. and that is why i got involved. everything else was just a byproduct and seeing all the crap around me and getting tired of people with no information or background making selfish decisions.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by testuser2 »

Our spring league was a disaster. For the younger squad the three teams we were supposed to play at home refused to travel. They only did this after we played two of our away games. So we won't do that again. The first tournament of the spring is this weekend. Both kids teams are in the top flight. I'm hopeful that they each win a game, but we haven't beaten any of those teams previously. It really comes down to depth. We have a starting lineup that can hang with nearly everyone we play, but as we sub in there is a big drop-off. Small town problems.

We don't even do tryouts. Families have self-selected right out of the club. We've had a few where the club director would talk to the parents of a kid that obviously didn't want to be there. Tournaments/leagues are were "making the roster" come into play. We have many kids that train with our club, but play on other teams or don't play games.
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