More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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testuser2 wrote:I hate parents that park their fucking chairs two feet from the field. God damn does it piss me off.


Every single game! What's wrong with these people?
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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testuser2 wrote:I hate parents that park their fucking chairs two feet from the field. God damn does it piss me off.


Thank our club's rules such as
* Parents are required to be on the far side of the field
* No dogs on site (I am pro dog but this just makes things easier)
* No chairs on our game fields (the nice grass) or any turf field (which automatically pushes parents back off the field if they want to sit).

Oh an F' rec referees who think they are Howard F'ing Webb but wear Tan sneakers and have their socks bunched around their ankles. I am fine if you want to be a pro for every game, but then be a F'ing pro from top to bottom.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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rass wrote:U12 kid has three practices a week, 4 hours total. One hour of that is with the parent coach, and not the trainer, for speed/agility training.

U10 kid has two for 3 hours total.

Older kid tied 1-1 today. She played out of her mind on defense. The sort of game I wish we had recorded. One girl who has been beat up and missed last Sunday's game and all three practices this past week showed up today so they ended up with one sub.



U9: We have one professional trainer session a week, where they do mostly skills with a short scrimmage at the end. One coach training session, but we play 5v5 festivals some weeks instead of coach session. We do a mix of skills, positioning and scrimmage, but the kids don't have much attention span for instruction. If it isn't incorporated into an activity or challenge, they won't listen.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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The Sybian wrote:
Been wanting to ask some advice on the recent complaints we got from 2 parents, but I don't have time right now. My wife took a couple short videos of a game 3 weeks ago, and I was shocked at all of the screaming from our parents. I said, "no wonder the kids don't listen, they are being told to do 4 different things at the same time." My daughter said it really bothers her, and I'm sure she isn't alone. We sent out an e-mail after that game, and I'll just post the reply of one parent below, who had a lot of other things to say:

Thank you for sending this email regarding the parents "sideline coaching". We've been surprised by what we have been seeing the past couple weeks. Parents walking up and down the sidelines coaching, parents screaming like maniacs, parents going over to the team during the game and at half time, kids coming over to parents during the game. We've never seen anything like this. My son is in his 6th year playing for the league and the coaches have given us very specific league rules from day one. And if the parents don't follow the rules they will be asked to leave.

Some parents on this have even said to me, "you're so calm." Perhaps some of the parents new to this league don't realize there are specific rules. Yes, I am much calmer than most parents on the sidelines because I know the league rules and I also appreciate the fact that these are 7 and 8 year olds and that this is not the World Cup.
I thank you for bringing that up because I do believe it needed to be said.


I thought it was great when we had half of the fathers volunteer to assistant coach, and we have 7 fathers with F-licences on the team. We have 2 head coaches, one being me, and 2 assistants that are there at half the practices, and most of the games. We are only allowed 3 coaches on the bench, so one of the assistants goes to the parents side when we are all there. I'm thinking the assistant on the parents side will have to police our parents. One father in particular is brutal to his daughter. I'm always surprised, because he is such a low key, cool guy, but he is so tough on his daughter. She is our second best player, by a long distance, but every mistake she makes gets him screaming. I missed our last game, but she gave up a couple soft goals, and my co-coach said she looked at the sidelines like she knew a beating was coming. The father used to joke about it last year, saying he would love to coach, but knows he gets too frustrated, but now it's not funny. I don't think he yells at any other girls, but he tells me afterwards how frustrated he gets at them, and has to remind himself they are 7 and 8 years old. Not sure if I had a point there, or just venting, but I think we need to lay down the law, and limit parents from coaching.



So this situation blew up last weekend. We played a Halloween tournament last Saturday, and the father apparently crossed the line in our last game. I wasn't aware of this, until my wife came over to tell me and the other coach. The two obnoxious parents went off on the father. He had been screaming instructions, and making audible annoyed noises when kids made bad plays. His daughter missed a shot, and he yelled, "that kick was crap." The two mothers went off screaming at him, he fought back because he believes it's fine to yell the kick was crap, because it was his daughter. His wife joined in, defending him, and made a rude dig at one of the obnoxious mothers, because she met with us to bitch about her complaints.

My partner talked to the father, he admitted to everything, acknowledged he needs to control himself, and on Sunday he and his wife sat far away from the rest of the parents. We also decided to position his daughter on the coaching sideline, so she can't hear her father. The unfortunate thing is, I really like this couple, and outside of soccer, they are really cool and laid back. They both played, and understand the game, and get frustrated when the girls don't make the right play. This father offers to help at practices, and he has a couple times, but we told him we can't have him at practices.

On the plus side, our team made a huge jump in play. They are starting to pass, most of them stay in position, and they generally know what to do. We won our first game 7-6, with my daughter scoring this game winning goal with 20 seconds left.

https://youtu.be/EOnq2xUov2o


Seeing that video, I need a short rant at the first mother who complained about coaching decisions. She bitches about the team not passing it to her daughter enough. Her daughter was the other forward on this play. Actually, my daughter was in midfield, her daughter was forward. I see 3 defenders, where is you precious girl for my daughter to pass to? On Sunday, my wife heard that mother make an annoyed noise as my daughter ran to get a ball that was in the vicinity of the other girl, while the girl's father yelled "get out of her way" to his daughter.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Those girls are too young for all this bullshit. I'm not trying to minimize your issues, but geezus... Get a grip people.

I'm lucky to have had only one or two parents that needed to be sorted out in all my years of coaching. Even with the girls, as we took them up to a pretty high level of play, never really had an issue with anyone. I mean, we've had the occasional off-line talks with various parents about position preference or style of play. And, to me, that's fine. We don't come across as tyrants and we'd rather have an open line than a my way or the highway approach.

But yelling that kick was crap? It's mind boggling to me that these parents don't understand the atmosphere they are creating with that kind of negativity. And knowing the game? I'm sorry, but, again, at that level of play... Things need to be very very basic. There just shouldn't be all these voices and any sort of drama. It's ridiculous.

There's a little park that is about a block from my house. You can hear the shouting from the soccer games all Saturday morning. I actually love it from afar. But I go down there with my wife last weekend, just to soak it all in a bit and... Holy shit. EVERY parent is shouting at the kids. Both teams have 3 coaches, and they're all shouting instructions.

The one's closest to us... "Kick it!" guy next to him "Kick it!" guy next to him "Kick it!" Sequentially. And this happened every 5-10 seconds. "Pass it!" "Pass it!" "Pass it!"

My wife, who has had the honor and privilege of listening to my soccer ramblings over the years, looks at me and she just knows... "Let's go.. This is bad for your blood pressure."
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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rass wrote:We had a parent on the opposing team not only call out our parents multiple times on Sunday ("where are # XX's parents?"), he also pulled the same shit while directly addressing one of our players ("hey # XX, where are your parents? We're going to get # YY on you"). Despite all SAGE suggestions to never initiate a confrontation, I shouted him down after he talked to our kid.

I sent a note to our club, so no idea if anything will be done. Thankfully we don't play them again this fall.


Another one of our teams (boys U12, the anecdote above was from U10 girls) had an issue with a team from this same town (if they were in a pretend internet baseball league their team nickname would the Offenders) last weekend. The kids on the other team had been cursing all game long. Towards the end of the game one of them slapped one of our kids in the face, so our kid decked him. The opposing parents rushed the field, the refs had problems getting them to back off, so our coach pulled his team off the field and quit the game (I believe they were losing at the time as it was). Again, really glad we don't play them again.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Nonlinear FC wrote:Those girls are too young for all this bullshit. I'm not trying to minimize your issues, but geezus... Get a grip people.

I'm lucky to have had only one or two parents that needed to be sorted out in all my years of coaching. Even with the girls, as we took them up to a pretty high level of play, never really had an issue with anyone. I mean, we've had the occasional off-line talks with various parents about position preference or style of play. And, to me, that's fine. We don't come across as tyrants and we'd rather have an open line than a my way or the highway approach.

But yelling that kick was crap? It's mind boggling to me that these parents don't understand the atmosphere they are creating with that kind of negativity. And knowing the game? I'm sorry, but, again, at that level of play... Things need to be very very basic. There just shouldn't be all these voices and any sort of drama. It's ridiculous.



Last year we didn't have a single complaint or issue. We had as many as 22 girls, sometimes taking 3 squads to 5v5 festivals. I mentioned that the parents "know the game," because their frustration comes out of the kids not getting the game yet. He has joked about needing to realize they are 7 and 8 years old, and don't understand strategic positioning yet, and don't read the game well. I think this is worse in some ways than an ignorant parent, because it's stupid to expect 7 year olds to think to make a through ball pass on a give and go. On a selfish level, I don't want to push this guy away, because his daughter and my daughter are the only two players who can work some plays, and our daughters were instant besties in a way I've never seen my daughter bond with another girl. It's interesting, because they bicker on the field constantly, and are super competitive and aggressive with each other at practice, but are all hugs off the field.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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So the other drama issue revolves around our substitutions. We play 7v7, and have 14 players. I think 10 would be ideal. The plan at tryouts was to have 2 teams of 10-12 girls, divided by skill levels. Our league plays with flights, so they two teams would have played against evenly matched opponents. We had 14 girls try out, and the league wanted us to take everyone. We had a couple late signups we turned away, as 14 is the max roster, so we desperately need 4 or so more for a second team for the Spring, so if you know any 2009 girls looking to play....

Last Winter we took a clear "A" and "B" squad to a 3v3 tournament, as detailed upthread. IMO, it was extremely successful. Some of the B girls who are timid when playing with better players, really stepped up their game to a shocking degree. The main person here, we will call her Ava, since half my team is named Ava. Ava played her ass off, took on players and scored some goals. Normally, Ava is stationary, and only moves if you yell her name and tell her it's her ball. Ava's dad, who I coached with 2 years ago for rec, raved about how great the separate teams worked out, and how Ava really stepped up because she had to. He gets frustrated with her, because he says she is good when they play around in their yard, but she goes into a shell during our games and just stands there.

This year we moved up to 7v7. We started the year with a 4 game tournament, and lost all four. 3 of the 4 we got shellacked. With 7 subs and 7 on the field, we decided to make 2 evenly matched lines, and sub 7 at a time. We mixed up the lines a bit, but nothing worked out. Our first league game we played a team that crushed us at the tourney the week prior. We decided to start our best 7, as we didn't want to get crushed early and demoralize the girls. We subbed on all 7 of the lesser skilled players, and they held their own. We all thought they played much harder together than when mixed. We finished out the game, and the "B" line held tough. They gave up 2 goals, and hit the side of the net with a shot. The "A" line scored one, held a clean sheet.

The following weekend, we played a festival, 5v5. We brought 2 teams, one with 6 players, one with 7. We had evenly mixed squads, but the day before, two kids bailed, and we got the schedules. One team played 3 out 4 games against older teams, while the other played all games against the same age. Seeing this, and knowing one squad had no subs, we split the squad so the girls best suited to play older teams were all together. The A-team looked incredible. Tons of passing, played positions better than ever, and we won 3 out of 4, losing to an older team's A-team by one goal, and beating their B team. Our B-team got crushed. We have 2 head coaches, 2 assistants. The HCs both stayed with the A team, since our daughters were both on that team, and the B Team had the 2 ACs, since their daughters played on B. All our games were at the same time except one, and the HCs decided to sit on the parent side for the B game we watched, so we didn't overload the coaching, or pushout the ACs. The next day we had a league game, and used the A/B lines again, and it worked out really well.

The following week after practice, Ava's mother went off on me about how the girls don't pass enough, and don't play as a team. Then she went off on segregating into a A and B line (they were one of the two who skipped the festival, so they weren't aware of that). Her precious Ava can't get better if she doesn't play with the better players, and she is wasting so much money on private lessons... She was furious we segregate the girls instead of being one team (we never segregate at practice at all). I tried to explain her husband's observation, that Ava never goes for the ball if there are better players on her team, as she shrinks away from the game. She is one of the biggest girls on the team, but she turns her back whenever the ball is near her (I didn't say that). This went on for literally 45 minutes. The other HC wasn't aware at the time, but his wife came over and got fired up defending us, which only made it worse. The next day, the other HC got a long e-mail that included the complaint about parent coaching, but railed against us subbing 7 at a time, and dividing the girls for the festival, and how we didn't even care enough to watch the B team... In her sons 7 years of travel, she has never once seen anything like it!

I can understand the upset over the A/B squads at the festival, but I stand by that decision. Older opponents with one sub, and evenly mixed squad would have been demoralized. It was hot and humid as fuck that day, too. I can even understand the gripe about our stacked lines, which we didn't plan on continuing anyways. But with 7 subs, it's impossible to get everyone equal playing time and sub 2 or 3 at time. We would have to sub every time the ball goes out, and it slows the game. Bitch Mom #2 complained about how subbing 7 killed the flow of the game, and was just unheard of! She passive aggressively offered a time keeping app, and commented that even with our subbing lines, we didn't give equal time. I should note, in a second game, we had two PKs called on the same line, and the ref spent 4 minutes on the two kicks, and we play 6 minute shifts, so it fucked up the timing, and we evened it up in the second half, but she claims she kept track, and we played favorites.

The dynamics are fascinating, as Ava's mom, Bitch #2 and a third mother who is their lackey, all went to HS together in our town. Ava's mom was the head cheerleader and Queen Meangirl. Now she is pushing 300 pounds, and fake sweet to people, but clearly and angry miserable person. It's hilarious, as she still holds some weird psychological power over the women she went to HS with who still live in town. It's a weird female political dynamic, and my wife is very attuned to not pissing her off, because she has minions and will seek vengeance.

The moral of he story, I need to convince my daughter to tryout for an academy team. She is scared of not knowing anyone, and not being the best. We listened to a kids podcast about soccer, and they interviewed Alexi Lalas, who said "if you are the best player on your team, you need to find a new team." I'm hoping that sinks in.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Well, Alexi is right. (blind squirrel/broken clock/yadayadayada).

The other stuff is just... Blech.

I think a 7v7 squad carrying 14 is pretty rough. My daughter plays travel softball, with 10 playing at any given time, and they max the roster out at 14. I know they are very different sports, but doubling up the amount of players that can play at any given time is a nightmare for coaches. And I would do exactly what you are doing in that spot. There's NO WAY you could keep track of playing time if you did it in 2s and 3s. No way. (I mean, I have attention deficit, so... Maybe somebody else could deal with that, no way in hell i could.) I know it's out of your control, I'm just sympathizing.

And I know your more venting than looking for advice, but...

One thing where my profession helped with my coaching was that I like to communicate with the parents. Particularly, I liked to write emails, especially when conveying something that might cause confusion or consternation among the parents. When we were going to divide the team up, that was a HUGE deal. So, I kept the parents updated on why we were doing it, what the tryouts were going to look like, opportunities for kids to move up and play for the EDP team, etc.

The good thing about email is that everyone gets the same message, at the same time. Now, some people are stupid... and some people hear/read what they want to, regardless of how careful you are with your wording. But, generally, it just saves you a lot of headache AND you alleviate a lot of the hen pecking bullshit that you are describing. If she wants to engage in a 45 minute bitch session AFTER you've already explained a bunch of stuff in an email, that's just her wasting your time, and you're free to tell her so.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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The Sybian wrote:The dynamics are fascinating, as Ava's mom, Bitch #2 and a third mother who is their lackey, all went to HS together in our town. Ava's mom was the head cheerleader and Queen Meangirl. Now she is pushing 300 pounds, and fake sweet to people, but clearly and angry miserable person. It's hilarious, as she still holds some weird psychological power over the women she went to HS with who still live in town. It's a weird female political dynamic, and my wife is very attuned to not pissing her off, because she has minions and will seek vengeance.


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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Nonlinear FC wrote:Well, Alexi is right. (blind squirrel/broken clock/yadayadayada).

The other stuff is just... Blech.

I think a 7v7 squad carrying 14 is pretty rough. My daughter plays travel softball, with 10 playing at any given time, and they max the roster out at 14. I know they are very different sports, but doubling up the amount of players that can play at any given time is a nightmare for coaches. And I would do exactly what you are doing in that spot. There's NO WAY you could keep track of playing time if you did it in 2s and 3s. No way. (I mean, I have attention deficit, so... Maybe somebody else could deal with that, no way in hell i could.) I know it's out of your control, I'm just sympathizing.

And I know your more venting than looking for advice, but...

One thing where my profession helped with my coaching was that I like to communicate with the parents. Particularly, I liked to write emails, especially when conveying something that might cause confusion or consternation among the parents. When we were going to divide the team up, that was a HUGE deal. So, I kept the parents updated on why we were doing it, what the tryouts were going to look like, opportunities for kids to move up and play for the EDP team, etc.

The good thing about email is that everyone gets the same message, at the same time. Now, some people are stupid... and some people hear/read what they want to, regardless of how careful you are with your wording. But, generally, it just saves you a lot of headache AND you alleviate a lot of the hen pecking bullshit that you are describing. If she wants to engage in a 45 minute bitch session AFTER you've already explained a bunch of stuff in an email, that's just her wasting your time, and you're free to tell her so.


Advice is always welcomed. Except from Mr. D, I ain't moving to south Orange. (actually, a much cooler town to live in...)

My co-coach writes so many e-mails, most of the parents would be annoyed. Other than these 2 mothers, the rest of the parents are great. They just appreciate that we are coaching so they don't have to. We are close to recruiting enough girls to form a second team, which would be split by ability levels. Next year, I need to find an academy team for my daughter to play for. It's a hassle, as they are all 20+ minutes away, but I set my own work schedule, so I can leave for a few hours and get my work done at night.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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3 items
First my Rec team. Breakthrough weekend. They actually put what we have been working on at practice together. We defended as a team, attacked wide and hit crosses, marked correctly, didn't just boot the ball out of the back. 3-3 draw but it was GREAT U-12 soccer. I even did not have to scream too much. They kids communicated to each other. Best to worst players, they just generally did it right and hustled for all 60 minutes. I love it when it clicks.

I am also coaching the All Star team. It was raining but we have a lighted turf field. I send a note to parents, that we are practicing if the field is open and the weather is not ridiculous. Told them to dress for the weather. 51 and raining when we get on the field, I have parents who are emailing that their kids won't be at practice because it is raining. WTF...we won't melt and it did not start to rain until 30 minutes into practice. Then I have kids in shorts and t shirts with no sleeves, gloves, pants, etc. So we practice and kids are cold. Ended early because I am not nuts but WTF. Basic parenting here.

Last Ref Question
My kid gets fouled outside the box. Ref talks to the player who hacked our kid. Okay I teach my kids to set the ball and look for the fast restart and then settle but respect the official wanting to stop and keep things under control. But then the other team puts 2 kids in a wall 2 feet from the ball. Ref just stands their waiting for my kids to ask for 10. I know we can request 10 but I was under the impression that still should be a yellow for not giving somewhat reasonable distance...that is just delaying our ability to play. I am not talking about 7 yards or a bit too close. That was just stand in front of the ball. Am I right about that one.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Congrats on the game. WTF with the practice. Gotta send out a note being really specific, I guess. Especially for an all-star team, there needs to be a commitment from the parents. Saturday night? If that was the night, it really wasn't that bad around here... That's unacceptable.

WRT to that reffing situation, it's a bit more fluid in soccer than it is in, say, lacrosse or field hockey, where you guys (refs) just don't put up with much bullshit regarding encroachment on set pieces/restarts.

It's really on the ref to set a tone and a standard. But it is VERY rare for a ref to just straight up card someone for standing too close to the ball. They tried making a thing out of that, but the culture is just kind of set that unless your player goes very quickly, the other team is going to step on the ball (parlance.) What they do at the higher levels now is use the foam to mark off 10 yards. But, as you know, that is at least a 5-10 second process, depedning on how obstinate the wall is being. There are funny clips of refs just spraying the tops of cleats when guys don't move.

Now, as to what the ref should have done after talking to the player... You don't need to/shouldn't have to ask for 10. That's not in the rule book anywhere. The ref is supposed to enforce it. Period. You may need to get on the ref occasionally, but really, that's just a center not doing his job.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B »

The saturday night before halloween is a shitty night to spring a practice on people, IMO.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Our practice was Sunday night and it was cold and wet. I am not a complete dick. I cancelled practice last year on Halloween. But my All-star team only has 4 practices before our tournament and I was clear on commitment. Did not select a good kid because he would miss every practice due to basketball but could play the tournament.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B »

I don't know why i assumed saturday. I can't read today. Brain fried. Carry on, taskmaster!
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Nonlinear FC wrote:WRT to that reffing situation, it's a bit more fluid in soccer than it is in, say, lacrosse or field hockey, where you guys (refs) just don't put up with much bullshit regarding encroachment on set pieces/restarts.

It's really on the ref to set a tone and a standard. But it is VERY rare for a ref to just straight up card someone for standing too close to the ball. They tried making a thing out of that, but the culture is just kind of set that unless your player goes very quickly, the other team is going to step on the ball (parlance.)


I always wondered why the officials did not just crackdown on delaying quick restarts. Growing up I played a ton of indoor and the rules at the time were if he was within the distance and not actively trying to get back it was 2 minute power play and got hit with the ball.

I think attacking soccer would benefit greatly from quick cards for throwing the ball away, grabbing it and walking away slowly, delaying a restarts in really not subtle ways. In a low scoring game, I would just rather see the expectation that the offended team gets the benefit to go and go fast. It would not take long for the change if the refs just got tough. Rugby seems to have figured that out and it is all Euro too.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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wlu_lax6 wrote:Our practice was Sunday night and it was cold and wet. I am not a complete dick. I cancelled practice last year on Halloween. But my All-star team only has 4 practices before our tournament and I was clear on commitment. Did not select a good kid because he would miss every practice due to basketball but could play the tournament.



Oh. Yeah. Sunday was a bit gnarly.

That said, we NEVER canceled practice unless there was some serious lightning in the forecast. We've practiced in the snow multiple times once our club gave us access to the turf.

Lightening fucks things up, obviously. Especially when most of the parents work out a car pool deal and don't sit there for 90-120 minutes. (Because fuck that. I don't understand folks who do that on the reg.)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Nonlinear FC wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:Our practice was Sunday night and it was cold and wet. I am not a complete dick. I cancelled practice last year on Halloween. But my All-star team only has 4 practices before our tournament and I was clear on commitment. Did not select a good kid because he would miss every practice due to basketball but could play the tournament.



Oh. Yeah. Sunday was a bit gnarly.

That said, we NEVER canceled practice unless there was some serious lightning in the forecast. We've practiced in the snow multiple times once our club gave us access to the turf.

Lightening fucks things up, obviously. Especially when most of the parents work out a car pool deal and don't sit there for 90-120 minutes. (Because fuck that. I don't understand folks who do that on the reg.)


Yeah the lightning sucks. At least in our association that ends practice/games at my level. In lacrosse I have to sit in some press box or high school and do the 30 minutes from the last flash/bang.

I do have the advantage (like when I ended last night) that I can take the kids into the Police HQ lobby..Yup the turf field we practice on is connected to the local Police Annex. Nothing like having a bunch of loud U-12 boys in cleats on well polished floors with Grumpy 5-0s super excited we are making a mess of the place.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

a couple of thoughts...

last year i coached a u12 boys team. we had 16. that meant 7 on the bench. the league has a requirement that kids play certain amount of time over the season (so does our club, but that's a whole 'nother rant). i had two assistants -- one of them held a tablet each game - used a time keeping app for subs. end of the season, yeah... we had kids playing 50+ minutes (60min game) ... but no one played less than 20min per game... most were in the 25-35 min per game. hard to do. yeah. but doable.

we did play one team with 18 (max roster size for age group) -- they switched all 9 at a time - so every kid got to play half the game. they lost. a lot. no continuity.

current team, also a u12... we carry 15. head coach refuses to lose.. winning is everything kind of guy... subs every 3 to 5 minutes... we're only undefeated because the core 5 players play 50+ minutes ... the kind of guy who won't stop yelling directions at every player all game long... with teh kind of parents who despite some kids not playing a lot.. won't complain because they are, you know, winners... ughh..can't wait to get him out next season.

this sunday was monsoon sunday..so naturally started getting calls/emails/texts from friday from our coaches (and some parents) as to whether we would cancel our home games (half of our teams were at home this weekend).. we have turf fields (may not like them, but they are playable, not unhygienic and unless it snows, we never cancel)... all through sunday during the storm we had questions and requests to cancel. would not cancel. it was 60 degrees. yeah, it rained. rules are specific... unless we cancel 3hrs before the game, its up to the ref... and i made sure that the refs knew it was on them. told the coaches and parents to suck it up butter cup, take your tents and chairs off the turf and enjoy the game... heck, the kids like playing in the rain.. sure they would like it better if it was mud. i think one game was cancelled -- visiting team wouldn't come play in the rain. so points to us.
on the plus side, baseball was cancelled cause they can't play in the rain.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

elflaco wrote:last year i coached a u12 boys team. we had 16. that meant 7 on the bench. the league has a requirement that kids play certain amount of time over the season (so does our club, but that's a whole 'nother rant). i had two assistants -- one of them held a tablet each game - used a time keeping app for subs. end of the season, yeah... we had kids playing 50+ minutes (60min game) ... but no one played less than 20min per game... most were in the 25-35 min per game. hard to do. yeah. but doable.

current team, also a u12... we carry 15. head coach refuses to lose.. winning is everything kind of guy... subs every 3 to 5 minutes... we're only undefeated because the core 5 players play 50+ minutes ... the kind of guy who won't stop yelling directions at every player all game long... with teh kind of parents who despite some kids not playing a lot.. won't complain because they are, you know, winners... ughh..can't wait to get him out next season.


I have a roster of 15. One kid only showed up for the first game and I have not seen him since (If he shows up for the tournament he won't play unless he says "My zipper was stuck"---yeah Summer School Reference you young punks). I don't get 14 at any of my games (usually 12). I am a sub every 5 to 7 minutes so that kids stay engaged on the sideline. We also play high energy and they exhaust themselves. However, I just basically rotate kids. I don't take quality of player into factor when substituting (I do balance positions, but try to just give kids about the same amount of playing time).

Oh and I am one of those crazy coaches who won't top yelling. However, I am more of the cheerleader type. No directions but rather the: great job keep the energy up, keep you heads up, and get the next one. Also the yell a kids name and give him an applause and thumbs up. Parents appreciate it but I do wish I could just shut up and let them play. The noise being yelled at them is just overwhelming and they are not listening. Which is why I was proud of the team and myself this weekend. The ability to have the team communicate to each other and have me just give some positive feedback on goal kicks and breaks in play was cool.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

wlu_lax6 wrote:
elflaco wrote:last year i coached a u12 boys team. we had 16. that meant 7 on the bench. the league has a requirement that kids play certain amount of time over the season (so does our club, but that's a whole 'nother rant). i had two assistants -- one of them held a tablet each game - used a time keeping app for subs. end of the season, yeah... we had kids playing 50+ minutes (60min game) ... but no one played less than 20min per game... most were in the 25-35 min per game. hard to do. yeah. but doable.

current team, also a u12... we carry 15. head coach refuses to lose.. winning is everything kind of guy... subs every 3 to 5 minutes... we're only undefeated because the core 5 players play 50+ minutes ... the kind of guy who won't stop yelling directions at every player all game long... with teh kind of parents who despite some kids not playing a lot.. won't complain because they are, you know, winners... ughh..can't wait to get him out next season.


I have a roster of 15. One kid only showed up for the first game and I have not seen him since (If he shows up for the tournament he won't play unless he says "My zipper was stuck"---yeah Summer School Reference you young punks). I don't get 14 at any of my games (usually 12). I am a sub every 5 to 7 minutes so that kids stay engaged on the sideline. We also play high energy and they exhaust themselves. However, I just basically rotate kids. I don't take quality of player into factor when substituting (I do balance positions, but try to just give kids about the same amount of playing time).

Oh and I am one of those crazy coaches who won't top yelling. However, I am more of the cheerleader type. No directions but rather the: great job keep the energy up, keep you heads up, and get the next one. Also the yell a kids name and give him an applause and thumbs up. Parents appreciate it but I do wish I could just shut up and let them play. The noise being yelled at them is just overwhelming and they are not listening. Which is why I was proud of the team and myself this weekend. The ability to have the team communicate to each other and have me just give some positive feedback on goal kicks and breaks in play was cool.


same or similar. lots of 'good effort' 'unlucky' -- been working with the defense to listen when i yell 'shape!'

biggest issue we have with the current u12 team is lack of communication -- no heads up, no 'man on'... and more importantly, no leadership. no one to hold others accountable. we have one player who will try to do it all-- but that is not good for the team (he'll go as far as take the ball away from his teammates) and no, i dont' think its entirely the age group -- team i had last year had a leader.. someone who would talk and yell out direction and others would listen to... interestingly enough -- this sunday we got up 5-0.. they knew not to score any more (league won't stand for scores higher than winning by +6)... and all of a sudden... all were talking. having fun. passing it.. directing each other. so i know they can do it.. and at the same time, the other coach was silent... something there i'm sure
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

This week's travel soccer club quandary.. brought to you by...

anyway.
questions flying around this week are when to cancel training and/or games due to weather.

had a parent coach tell me we should cancel all training tomorrow night because it will be in the 30s, and hey, COPA holds no activiites when under 40...

i'm good with no training in driving rain, or downpour, or rain + temp in 40s, or snow on ground.

but cold? nice crisp evening.. put on some gloves, a woolie hat, some underarmour (be prepared to take most of it off during the session) and a hoodie for afterwards.. and then run for 90mins.

oh.. but they're kids!
yeah, so?
games on saturday will go on in same temp.

i usually tell them to go play baseball if they're such pussies (well, not the kids.. can't talk like that to kids...)

am i alone in this? reasonable?
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal »

You are not alone.

When Quinn played, we would cancel when it was below 20. Maybe.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

Meh. I don't feel like sitting around in the cold tomorrow night, and the youngest's team has a make up game on Saturday morning, so I was thinking of trying to nudge that coach to at least curtail tomorrow's practice.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

My wife and I got into a a bit of a heated argument last night. My team has a game at 8:30. Temps on Saturday at that time will probably be ~25F-~28F. I explained that we will bundle up and play some soccer. Hats/Earbands, Under Armour, Pants, and Gloves. Maybe even a sweatshirt under the jersey. She was all in a huff and puff about our poor little boy and the rest of the boys on the team. I have no sympathy and explained that kids have played in worse and this is about toughening the kids up. We play and get some warmth quickly after the game. She said she did not want to sit in the cold. I told her she did not have to come (that was the wrong response).

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by testuser2 »

We are in a tournament down your way wlu. First game is at Hammond CC with a 9am kickoff. This also happens to be the weekend the wife is in Vegas for the marathon. She is pretty happy with her choice. Game gear is similar. Under armor, sweatshirt, hat, gloves, etc... These games are always hardest on the goalies.

Thoughts and prayers...
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B »

OK, so this isn't soccer but it's youth sports.

My daughter has been playing club volleyball for several years now. There are two divisions: Regionals and Nationals, each with 3 teams. Nationals is the higher level. They have nationals tryouts one week, then regionals the next after the national teams are filled. You can try out for nationals if you want but you don't have to in order to play regionals. The past three seasons we have went ahead and let her try out for nationals and each year she hasn't made it but has been on the #5 team (3 national teams and the top regional team) the past two years. And it's ALWAYS the same people making the nationals. So we had decided this year that she would just try out for regionals because she took it really hard when she got cut from Nationals (I knew she wasn't gonna make those teams but she still wanted to, you know?) so we were hoping to lessen that burden. She'd have to jump AT least 3 kids at her position, because again, the same people make the teams every year and that seems unlikely.

This week was nationals tryouts. Same old same old, 3 teams at each level, coaches had been announced, yadda yadda yadda. Monday night is first night of tryouts. Director of the club tweets afterwards that it's the deepest year ever and he's considering adding national teams in certain age groups. Lo and behold, that's what ends up happening (it costs about $800 more at least in the jump from regionals to nationals) and so now there are FOUR national teams at our age level. So now, she'd only have had to jump one kid, which is obviously easier than 3 (And come to find out, one of the girls in her position actually jumped up an age level, so my daughter would have been "in line" for that last nationals spot.

I'm pretty pissed about it. We made a decision based on the information that was out there because we were trying to not hurt our daughter's confidence (which has not been great the past few months) but now we end up missing out on an opportunity to have helped her confidence a ton. (Obviously I'm kicking myself and just should have signed her up for Nationals tryout, so spare me that thought, I can't go back in time). I just think it's shitty to add opportunities after the deadline has passed to sign up.

Sorry just wanted to vent.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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wlu_lax6 wrote:My wife and I got into a a bit of a heated argument last night. My team has a game at 8:30. Temps on Saturday at that time will probably be ~25F-~28F. I explained that we will bundle up and play some soccer. Hats/Earbands, Under Armour, Pants, and Gloves. Maybe even a sweatshirt under the jersey. She was all in a huff and puff about our poor little boy and the rest of the boys on the team. I have no sympathy and explained that kids have played in worse and this is about toughening the kids up. We play and get some warmth quickly after the game. She said she did not want to sit in the cold. I told her she did not have to come (that was the wrong response).


If it helps, I'm as soft as they come and I think you're fine here.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

mister d wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:My wife and I got into a a bit of a heated argument last night. My team has a game at 8:30. Temps on Saturday at that time will probably be ~25F-~28F. I explained that we will bundle up and play some soccer. Hats/Earbands, Under Armour, Pants, and Gloves. Maybe even a sweatshirt under the jersey. She was all in a huff and puff about our poor little boy and the rest of the boys on the team. I have no sympathy and explained that kids have played in worse and this is about toughening the kids up. We play and get some warmth quickly after the game. She said she did not want to sit in the cold. I told her she did not have to come (that was the wrong response).


If it helps, I'm as soft as they come and I think you're fine here.


I blame your high school for making my wife a wuss...spring high school soccer is for commies and a joke. (yes soccer is a spring sport in Virginia too)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

First time my entire team was at the field ready to go 30 minutes before kickoff. Freezing out there. We warm up well, bit nervous about the kids mental focus. Game time comes and the refs are just hanging out. They are just chatting with the site admin. Other field kicks off. We stand there. I pop over. The other team did not have a paper copy of the roster. Refs won't let them play. Win by forfeit. Silly. They would not even let me say it was okay to play. Silly. Semifinals at 1:45
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

wlu_lax6 wrote:First time my entire team was at the field ready to go 30 minutes before kickoff. Freezing out there. We warm up well, bit nervous about the kids mental focus. Game time comes and the refs are just hanging out. They are just chatting with the site admin. Other field kicks off. We stand there. I pop over. The other team did not have a paper copy of the roster. Refs won't let them play. Win by forfeit. Silly. They would not even let me say it was okay to play. Silly. Semifinals at 1:45


3 words --Big A$$ Trophy (continues to remind me that the size of the trophy is inversely proportional to the relative value on winning it)
3 more words---Super Excited Kids
7 more words---Glad the Regular Season did Not Matter
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

testuser2 wrote:We are in a tournament down your way wlu. First game is at Hammond CC with a 9am kickoff. This also happens to be the weekend the wife is in Vegas for the marathon. She is pretty happy with her choice. Game gear is similar. Under armor, sweatshirt, hat, gloves, etc... These games are always hardest on the goalies.

Thoughts and prayers...



Meh. As you guys might know, I'm very much not a "our kids are getting soft/participation trophy is ruining sports" kind of person.

But on this front, I really do a softening and over-protectiveness. It's a little rain, it's cold, wind... whatever, go play the G-D game. That's one of the things we used to pride ourselves on as kids.. They might cancel a baseball game due to some rain, but never soccer. (This was in the days when soccer was seen as a communist threat, directly at odds with baseball.)

And wlu, your wife not wanting to sit in the cold is where most of the "concern" comes from... Not the kids as much as they don't want to freeze their asses off... And I totally get that. Sit in the car. Bundle up. And, really, it's ok to miss a game. Your kid is going to be running around and perfectly fine 10 minutes into the exercise. You are going to be sitting/standing still.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Congrats, man! As much as winning isn't everything... It sure is awesome to win a trophy.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Nonlinear FC wrote:Congrats, man! As much as winning isn't everything... It sure is awesome to win a trophy.

Yeah I was floating around yesterday afternoon. Not because of winning (which was nice) but the joy the kids had from achieving it. Our regular season put us in a less competitive end of year tournament, but the kids did not care. And in reality, the team just was starting to get what we were trying to teach (after a rough early part we were starting to dismantle teams by passing, checking to the ball, playing wide, hitting crosses, quick restarts, communication, and very organized defense). A shame the season is over.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Sabo »

Congrats on the hardware, wlu_lax!

Reading this thread has made me think about the organization and coaching (or rather lack thereof) I got when I played little league baseball. The organization itself wasn't bad, but I can honestly say my little league coach was a piece of shit. I mostly played shortstop and pitcher, and it was blatantly obvious he had no idea how to actually coach a pitcher. So instead, he just insulted me. These are quotes I vividly remember from my alleged coach:

Dumb, fuckstick coach wrote:Why aren't you throwing the ball over the plate? You should pitch like Warren Spahn or Sandy Koufax.


Keep in mind, this guy started coaching me in 1980, when I was eight years old. I never saw Spahn or Koufax pitch because both had retired before I was born. How the hell am I supposed to pitch like two Hall of Fame pitchers if I never saw them throw a ball?

Dumb, fuckstick coach wrote:You throw like Old Lady Bussmeyer.


Again, some context would be nice. I have no idea who Old Lady Bussmeyer is, let alone her throwing motion. Who knows, maybe she could sling it with the likes of a Spahn, Sain, two days of rain or Koufax. Guess I'll never know!

Dumb, fuckstick coach, while pointing at home plate wrote:Do you even know what the strike zone is? It's right there!


Cool. The strike zone is right above home plate. THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT, EINSTEIN.

Looking back, I don't think I got any instruction on pitching or hitting mechanics until I started playing junior high baseball, and even then, it was limited. The instruction I mostly remember was about keeping my elbow either the same height or slightly above my shoulder, otherwise I'd hurt my elbow. Well, that worked out well, mostly because I got some serious bicep tendonitis. That hurt so bad I went to the nurse's office for an aspirin, which they refused to give me. She literally said "If we gave out aspirin to everyone who had sore arms, we wouldn't have any aspirin."

So, I'm glad to read there are youth sports clubs out there who hire actual coaches who actually know what they're doing. It's good to know some progress has been made in the last 30+ years.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B »

I never had a coach tell me anything other than "don't step in the bucket".
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

That is one of my fears of coaching (and why I stepped up after my son's first rec coach had some things I thought were not so great for his love of the game). I played growing up, had a mix of coaches. Parents to Pros. I was worried that I just did not have the knowledge to pass on the sport in the correct way (teaching how to properly dribble, strike, move, defend, etc).

However, today there is no excuse for this in any sport. Parents who volunteer should at minimum get the basic level coaching education (web based and a few hours) and as the kids grow continue to take instruction or pass off coaching to someone qualified. I have picked up a few licenses for Soccer from NSCAA (now called United Soccer Coaches) and US Soccer. Plus each has short 5 minute videos they send out to get you thinking about coaching from basics, to a new drill, or high caliber tactics. Additionally, the ability to get basic instruction on "how to coach" is out there too. With Positive Coaching Alliance and a few other organizations on how to give feedback, show a technique, there is really no reason a parent can't give a great experience.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by mister d »

A_B wrote:I never had a coach tell me anything other than "don't step in the bucket".


I had better little league coaching than that, but it was of the one-size-fits-all-players variety and I was never really receptive. I always threw three-quarters at highest and lower whenever my arm hurt, I still line my knuckles up all weird and I release the bat with my top hand, all of which go against "the rules". And he called me lackadaisical weekly. But he was a good dude who was way ahead of his time with pitchers; I got pulled atleast twice my last season because he saw me flexing my arm even though I wouldn't admit it hurt. I only had one "tough it out coach" but that was in senior league and I sucked enough on the mound by then that there wasn't value in keeping me in anyway.
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