More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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tennbengal
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal »

Just move her. There's no reason to hold her back, and if she's got a chance to someday play high level soccer in HS and maybe college, you might as well start giving her the tools now.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Yeah, you gotta move her.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by DC47 »

At U8 the games barely matter, in terms of player development. They should properly be seen as primarily a fun activity for the kids. Practices, of all types (not only team-based), are what matter. That's true, though to a decreasing extent, past U8 as well.

I coached teams with quite a bit of skill and athletic diversity up to age U-11. Each year we had a couple of players with modest ability, and several who eventually played at the "college recruiting offer" level as older teens.

I don't think the stronger players were any worse off for having been on these teams up to that point, rather than on high-level club teams where they would have had better teammates and professional coaching (which varies greatly in suitability). Eventually I moved my daughter to a U-10 club team coached by a highly experienced Peruvian with an intense focus on ball skills, as opposed to a focus on athletic ability or winning games. It was a considerably better team but not a high level one -- my daughter was the best player. That was the right time for her, and exactly the right coach. Every year after that she moved up to better teams, most often playing up a year or two. She eventually played alongside players who got college offers, competing in the second league below the age group national team. Her opponents included players I now recognize on the USA U-20 team.

I don't think my daughter would have been better if she had gone the high-level club route earlier in her soccer career. But the key variable was the quality of training she was getting at the rec-level at ages 4 through 9. It was the right kind -- skills focused -- and conducted by coaches who were good enough for that level. The team was a happy one. Even the parents were happy (never true on subsequent teams). The fact that many of the players weren't very good and weren't going to go far in soccer (however some of the weak players did very well in H.S. at softball, water polo, distance running) didn't substantially detract from the training. It's quite possible that the training was as good or better from a skills point of view than that of many higher level club teams that devoted a lot of attention to things that would have a more immediate pay-off in terms of winning games.

It was once amazing to me how much time high-level professional coaches of even very young teams will spend on conditioning, practicing free kick tactics, and "motivation." It became less amazing when I realized their primary concern was advancing their careers, and that winning games was almost the exclusive currency.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

I lost the plot a little and thought Syb's daughter was U10, making next year U11. So, yeah, DC makes good points. Under the age of 10, it's all about skill development and most importantly building and maintaining a love for the game.

At that age, you might not really have too many options that make sense anyways.

So, I retract the "you gotta move her." And I assume you're looking down the road at options when she gets to U10, U11.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian »

Nonlinear FC wrote:I lost the plot a little and thought Syb's daughter was U10, making next year U11. So, yeah, DC makes good points. Under the age of 10, it's all about skill development and most importantly building and maintaining a love for the game.

At that age, you might not really have too many options that make sense anyways.

So, I retract the "you gotta move her." And I assume you're looking down the road at options when she gets to U10, U11.
I was surprised when you said I have to move her. She is U8. I like that she is gaining confidence and took over as a leader on the field. She is the most outgoing kid when she is comfortable in a situation, but has major anxiety in new situations, especially if she doesn't know anyone. If she went to try out for a select team without a friend with her, she would probably break down and cry. I was planning on having her do the travel program in town next year, then figure it out. Tryouts are next month for the regional teams. We've played against some of them, and she would be one of the better players, but have other players on her level.

Yesterday at practice, she was clearly bored and frustrated by some of the other players. For this age group, the kids are required to do a "Soccer Development Academy" in order to play on the festival team. There are only a couple of girls in the SDA who are not on my team, so it is basically practices run by professionals. I thought my daughter liked it, as she loves hanging around the 20-something English guys who coach in this program. She was pissed when I told her SDA is starting up again this week, and said it is too easy and her and 2 or 3 better teammates shouldn't have to go. My fear now is that she might lose some of her passion if she is bored by the program, or doesn't have teammates on the same level. I'm not concerned about her development being delayed at this age. I think the ideal situation would be putting her on the boys team. She is friends with most of them, and would be the third best player on their team. They have SDA sessions at the same time, on the same field. They even combined the girls and boys to scrimmage a couple of times, and it was great to watch her push herself.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

Is she in the BH travel program, or are you still doing that small-side tournament thing? If not, have her try out? You guys definitely have at least one U9 girls team, if not a U8. I'm not sure how many kids try out in your town, but our program allows kids to play up (thrives on it in fact, since for girls there are U9, U11 and U12 teams, but no U8, U10 or U13).

I feel like we might have to make some sort of decision with our 11 y.o., but even putting aside $$ and any emotional ties to the current team finding her some where else to play that we can get her to on a regular basis is a pain. Best bet might be a better quality local travel team? I really hope she comes back around on track. She's more exceptional there and it's an easier and cheaper process to get training and into competitions.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by DC47 »

Playing up a year can open up strong options at any age, as long as a kid can deal with playing with relative strangers. This is no small thing, especially on the girls side, as there will be cliques. There can be really harsh behavior both on and off the field.

My daughter played up all but two years of her 12 year career. One year she played up two years. Being willing to do this essentially doubled her options. We're in a soccer-rich part of Michigan, so there are a lot of teams within ~30 minutes driving range. Doubling the options gave her a lot of choice.

Despite the volume of choices, and the care we took to scout the options (e.g., guest playing and practicing), selecting a team each year was no more than moderately successful. So many of the teams were obviously unsuitable. Others had serious hidden flaws. For example, the coach's daughter -- a terror who ran the team, and hated my daughter -- who we missed as she didn't play when my daughter guested on that team. Or the star attacking player who my daughter wanted to play with -- but who moved up to ECNL on tryout day without her knowing it. Pitfalls abound, even when there are many apparently reasonable (e.g., level of play, coaching resume) options.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian »

rass wrote:Is she in the BH travel program, or are you still doing that small-side tournament thing? If not, have her try out? You guys definitely have at least one U9 girls team, if not a U8. I'm not sure how many kids try out in your town, but our program allows kids to play up (thrives on it in fact, since for girls there are U9, U11 and U12 teams, but no U8, U10 or U13).

I feel like we might have to make some sort of decision with our 11 y.o., but even putting aside $$ and any emotional ties to the current team finding her some where else to play that we can get her to on a regular basis is a pain. Best bet might be a better quality local travel team? I really hope she comes back around on track. She's more exceptional there and it's an easier and cheaper process to get training and into competitions.
It's part of the BH travel program, but playing small-sided festivals. The BH travel officially starts next year, but they provide us with practice fields/times, uniforms, etc... We schedule our own festivals and tournaments, though. We brought her to the tryout for the older team, but the two girls she knew didn't show up, and she panicked, so we didn't force her onto the field. A parent of a girl on my team is the coach for the older team, and he was saying my daughter would thrive playing up. Since I am coaching, it seems wrong to ditch the team midseason, even if the program let me.

I see the NJ Elites team plays home games in Warren, which is 5 minutes from me, but training is at the Dutch Total Soccer center in Somerset, which is 30 minutes. We played winter tournaments there, which is fine, but that's a bit far for practices. The guy who runs the Soccer Development Academy has a daughter 2 years older than my daughter, who is phenomenal. She plays for PDA, which seems to have the best teams from what I've seen. Their facility is about 35 minutes away. On the plus side, they got to walk out onto the pitch holding hands with England's Lady Lions against the US Womens' Team in the We Believe Cup. The father is English, actually she was born before they moved here, I think. He was stoked she got to walk out with England's captain. As they waited in the tunnel, Carli Lloyd and the US walked up first, and Carli grabbed the girls hand and started talking to her. The father was telling me his daughter knew Carli went to the wrong mascot line, but tried to pull off a switch. He was heart broken, and said she will only play for the US. England won the game that day, but we won the war!
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by testuser2 »

The number of options some of you have is mind-boggling. Our club doesn't play in any leagues because the travel isn't worth it and instead enters in open tournaments. Driving 2 hours to Pittsburgh for one game is a non-starter. We used to form a team under one of the local Pittsburgh teams and then schedule double-headers. This worked until a local club lobbied to make a rule that only one game could be played in a day.

We played a small-sided tournament in Philly this past weekend. Unfortunately, it wasn't the best competition. Aggregate over the three games was around 30-0. Oh well. At least the kids got to see the liberty bell, Franklin Institute and a MAGA rally we accidentally ran into. I've never seen so many police in one area.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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We gave my daughter the choice of trying out for a regional team, and she didn't want to do it unless a friend went with her. We didn't push, and decided to have her play a year on the town travel and see how that goes. Tryouts are next week, and I am very likely going to coach with the same father as this year, unless someone else comes out of the woodwork and challenges us. Then it goes to an interview process. The beauty of the tryouts, is that the Association Board members choose the team, not the parent/coaches. This is such a great thing. We know the 2 board members selecting our team, and I get the sense they are deferring to our judgment, but taking the responsibility for the selections. They asked for a write up on all of the girls trying out who played on our festival team, then sent us an evaluation form to rate the girls in about 10 categories. I felt very weird rating my daughter and the other coaches', but fortunately he gave my daughter top mark across the board, and is realistic to his daughter's flaws. He ranked her 3rd best, I'd put her 4th, but I'll let it go.

Starting to doubt the decision now. My wife flipped, and thinks we made a mistake, but it could have been a combo of PMS and waking up at 6:00 to drive to an early morning festival, and playing on a balanced squad rather than A-team. My daughter gets really frustrated when she doesn't have another star player on the field with her, but we only have 3 or 4 other good players, and 3 squads to split them between. We put her with our second best player every week, because the two of them play tremendously together. They pass to each other all over the field, where no other player sees the game the way they do.

Then, the past 2 weeks, a professional coach we play against every week has been telling me I need to put my daughter in an older age group. During the game we played against her, she came over at least 5 times after a nice play saying she is more than good enough to play up. The good news, we get to whittle down our 22 players to 12 or so. We have maybe 7 or 8 with potential, so hopefully we can work on developing their understanding of the game, and it won't be frustrating for my daughter.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

I'm by no means an expert at this, but I think MNJYSA can be competitive enough that as an 8/9 year old you aren't going to damage her development or lose her interest. If I'm reading the listings correctly, it looks like BH has two U9 girls teams this season, one of them in flight 2 and one in flight 5. The flight 2 team was flight 4 in the fall, so the league can be pretty proactive keeping the flights balanced. If they field a comparable level team to that flight 2 one in the fall and that's what she's on, I think she'll be fine.

Though if I'm going to be honest, flight 5 can be a little hit or miss. That's where my youngest ended up for the spring (after being in 4 in the fall), and they lost their first game 6-0 (opponent had one awesome player who could dribble circles around the other 13 players on the pitch) and then won their second game 5-1. And to pull this all together, the BH flight 5 team contacted me just this week because they don't have enough girls available to play our game scheduled for 5/21. I can let you know when the ends up being rescheduled if you want to being her to the U and see a game. Or just go see one of the current flight 2 team's games in town.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian »

rass wrote:I'm by no means an expert at this, but I think MNJYSA can be competitive enough that as an 8/9 year old you aren't going to damage her development or lose her interest. If I'm reading the listings correctly, it looks like BH has two U9 girls teams this season, one of them in flight 2 and one in flight 5. The flight 2 team was flight 4 in the fall, so the league can be pretty proactive keeping the flights balanced. If they field a comparable level team to that flight 2 one in the fall and that's what she's on, I think she'll be fine.

Though if I'm going to be honest, flight 5 can be a little hit or miss. That's where my youngest ended up for the spring (after being in 4 in the fall), and they lost their first game 6-0 (opponent had one awesome player who could dribble circles around the other 13 players on the pitch) and then won their second game 5-1. And to pull this all together, the BH flight 5 team contacted me just this week because they don't have enough girls available to play our game scheduled for 5/21. I can let you know when the ends up being rescheduled if you want to being her to the U and see a game. Or just go see one of the current flight 2 team's games in town.

Not a bad idea. Let me know when you have a game in BH. I have friend with a daughter playing U-12 at Westfield, and my daughter really wanted to watch when they played in BH, but it didn't work out. Are you coaching your younger daughter's team?

I'm not worried about my daughter falling behind girls playing on the regional teams, just worried about her getting bored or frustrated with teammates. She makes passes to space between several defenders that would be perfect, but nobody on her team is moving to space, and she gets upset at times. Or one time she went to take a corner, and the other three girls decided to go back into their own goal box. We were talking to a parent with three older boys playing at STA in Morristown, and she made a big deal about getting my daughter to play there. I'm not sure it was an actual offer, but I think she offered to drive my daughter to practices. It's too late now, so I'm going to try not to think about it. I'm hoping we get a few more girls at tryouts to unseat a couple more of my dead weight players.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

BH is coming to us this season, youngest daughter's team, and as I said flight 5. Your daughter may not be impressed.

I'm team mom/manager for both of their teams. May get my F license over the summer to help out with the oldest daughter's team, as requested by the coach.

To boil down what I said, BH has been able to field high quality teams in the past, and the competition in the higher flights in MNJYSA has been quality, too. Hopefully she'll be OK and not go all Peyton Manning on her teammates.


I'd really like find out how good my oldest is, but I can't find a way to make a non-local team work. Her team bumped down to flight 4 this spring (they lost a couple of girls and replaced them over the winter, and after a not great fall season with what was basically a 1/2 new team due to the age criteria change the coach thought they could use an easier go of it) and they(and she) are rampaging (17 goals for, 1 against in four games).
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

chickens have come home to roost

the changes wrought by US Soccer are finally truly being felt in our club.

The club decided to let it's 17 teams make the decision whether to play age appropriate, or allow players to play up one year. We did make recommendations where we felt a player playing up would be unwise. There were few such recommendations.

So the 2016-17 season began with two less teams. One folded as players graduated, one ceased to exist as parents decided in over 50% of cases not to play up.

The team i coached (last year 4th graders) decided to stay together and play up. So 05 (U12)... with a handful of 06s and a bunch of 05s (including from Gladiators, the dissolved team)... whereas the other U10 team stayed 06 and played this season as u11...

on to this spring... there is only enough 02/03 kids for one team... the 04 team has taken most of the 05s.. my team, the 05.. is losing 6 kids, 5 of them to 'academies' but there aren't enough other 05s (or 06s who will play up) to make up for the loss of six players plus the need to have a full 16-18 man roster as we go full sided in the fall..

as of last night's training session.. i have 13 kids.. a handful of 5th graders, a 4th grader and some 6th graders. 10 2005s and 3 2006s... but not enough (plus the 06s would be the center of the team.. and will get killed size wise playing full sided)... so parents and kids and club people asking what to do.
nothing. we're fucked. well the 05s are.. and in reality, 7 of them are really good.. but parents dont' want to go to academies and pay $2000+ out of town.
the 06s.. including my son.. were also recruited by the 06 team (the same team that cut my kid back in u8s, now has him rated at #2 in the age group... want him, and i'll get to be a soccer dad.. not on the coach's side).. but the 05s.. man, i feel for them.

to top it off... eletiosn are next month and i'm likely to be nominated (and seconded) as president .. currently in charge of training and player dev... obvioulsy not good at it as we keep losing kids to Valencia and Jersey Knights and Copa (don't feel bad about losing kids to PDA or NJ Elite)

oh, and the boy wants to try out for knights.

no back deals.
sort of a mini rant.
kind of sad we can't find a solution.. and wary of the fact that the 2006 team will go full sided in 18... and there aren't enough kids at that level in town to do so.

time to raid Edison and Woodbridge. maybe westfield.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

So my son will finish up another year of rec soccer. He is really frustrated with his teammates. It is rec soccer so the commitment level is not what he wants. He is frustrated by kids who show up right at game time, skip practice/games, don't work hard at practice, etc (I am the coach and am losing my mind but do remember this is rec and am just proud of the kids who do it the right way..including my boy). I encouraged him to try out for the end of season all-star team but he was a bit nervous. This week the field was wet and we moved fields for practice next to where the Academy team was working. My son was very impressed and now has a bit of ambition goal now. Skill wise he is not ready for the Academy team but may be able to make one of the 2 travel teams (although he missed tryouts so he likely has a year to develop).

My son is probably one of the best defensive players. 1 v. 1 the top kids can't beat him. He is also tough (and a tad dirty). His on ball skill is the place that needs the most work. We talked about what it would take to make one of these teams and he seems ready to go after it. He probably will be a regular at the informal pickup games that our association organizes over the summer. However, he also seems willing to take some time each day to just practice. Anyone have some good stuff that he can do alone or he and I can do together?

At his age I was introduced to Will Coerver's drills. I have also heard good stuff about the Soccer Beast Mode 25000 touches program. Thoughts, suggestions.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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wlu_lax6 wrote:So my son will finish up another year of rec soccer. He is really frustrated with his teammates. It is rec soccer so the commitment level is not what he wants. He is frustrated by kids who show up right at game time, skip practice/games, don't work hard at practice, etc (I am the coach and am losing my mind but do remember this is rec and am just proud of the kids who do it the right way..including my boy). I encouraged him to try out for the end of season all-star team but he was a bit nervous. This week the field was wet and we moved fields for practice next to where the Academy team was working. My son was very impressed and now has a bit of ambition goal now. Skill wise he is not ready for the Academy team but may be able to make one of the 2 travel teams (although he missed tryouts so he likely has a year to develop).

My son is probably one of the best defensive players. 1 v. 1 the top kids can't beat him. He is also tough (and a tad dirty). His on ball skill is the place that needs the most work. We talked about what it would take to make one of these teams and he seems ready to go after it. He probably will be a regular at the informal pickup games that our association organizes over the summer. However, he also seems willing to take some time each day to just practice. Anyone have some good stuff that he can do alone or he and I can do together?

At his age I was introduced to Will Coerver's drills. I have also heard good stuff about the Soccer Beast Mode 25000 touches program. Thoughts, suggestions.

Yes to both of those. There are ton of Coerver drills that are built for individual. You don't want/can't really have him do both, but if you do Coerver, build some daily stuff he can do that gets him to a goal of touches every day.

ETA: There also drills where you can work on his kicking (passing/shooting) technique. What I can't stress enough is to make sure whatever he is doing, he is doing with the proper technique. We've had some girls come to us in the last two years (high school age) where they have great skill, but someone either taught them jacked up technique or they (coach/parent) didn't know what they were doing was wrong... There's a point where we can't fix it.

If you feel like you need a "professional" to look at his technique, do it now. It's like golfing... you can move yourself around the golf course with messed up swings, but if you want to actually be good, you've gotta be in the right ballpark with the technique (Furyk aside.)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Nonlinear FC wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:So my son will finish up another year of rec soccer. He is really frustrated with his teammates. It is rec soccer so the commitment level is not what he wants. He is frustrated by kids who show up right at game time, skip practice/games, don't work hard at practice, etc (I am the coach and am losing my mind but do remember this is rec and am just proud of the kids who do it the right way..including my boy). I encouraged him to try out for the end of season all-star team but he was a bit nervous. This week the field was wet and we moved fields for practice next to where the Academy team was working. My son was very impressed and now has a bit of ambition goal now. Skill wise he is not ready for the Academy team but may be able to make one of the 2 travel teams (although he missed tryouts so he likely has a year to develop).

My son is probably one of the best defensive players. 1 v. 1 the top kids can't beat him. He is also tough (and a tad dirty). His on ball skill is the place that needs the most work. We talked about what it would take to make one of these teams and he seems ready to go after it. He probably will be a regular at the informal pickup games that our association organizes over the summer. However, he also seems willing to take some time each day to just practice. Anyone have some good stuff that he can do alone or he and I can do together?

At his age I was introduced to Will Coerver's drills. I have also heard good stuff about the Soccer Beast Mode 25000 touches program. Thoughts, suggestions.



Yes to both of those. There are ton of Coerver drills that are built for individual. You don't want/can't really have him do both, but if you do Coerver, build some daily stuff he can do that gets him to a goal of touches every day.

ETA: There also drills where you can work on his kicking (passing/shooting) technique. What I can't stress enough is to make sure whatever he is doing, he is doing with the proper technique. We've had some girls come to us in the last two years (high school age) where they have great skill, but someone either taught them jacked up technique or they (coach/parent) didn't know what they were doing was wrong... There's a point where we can't fix it.

If you feel like you need a "professional" to look at his technique, do it now. It's like golfing... you can move yourself around the golf course with messed up swings, but if you want to actually be good, you've gotta be in the right ballpark with the technique (Furyk aside.)
So Coerver, Beast mode, or other? Do you have a recommendation/link for a plan. I can create something but no reason to reinvent the wheel.
References to drill on passing/shooting technique?

and yes I hear you on technique. Teaching a kid technique to strike the ball correctly is hard. Some kids just don't have body understanding of what it means to really lock that ankle, plant correctly, follow through, and land etc. It is also something that is hard to teach when you have a whole team of boys (some of whom are not so focused and can disrupt others).
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

wlu_lax6 wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote:So my son will finish up another year of rec soccer. He is really frustrated with his teammates. It is rec soccer so the commitment level is not what he wants. He is frustrated by kids who show up right at game time, skip practice/games, don't work hard at practice, etc (I am the coach and am losing my mind but do remember this is rec and am just proud of the kids who do it the right way..including my boy). I encouraged him to try out for the end of season all-star team but he was a bit nervous. This week the field was wet and we moved fields for practice next to where the Academy team was working. My son was very impressed and now has a bit of ambition goal now. Skill wise he is not ready for the Academy team but may be able to make one of the 2 travel teams (although he missed tryouts so he likely has a year to develop).

My son is probably one of the best defensive players. 1 v. 1 the top kids can't beat him. He is also tough (and a tad dirty). His on ball skill is the place that needs the most work. We talked about what it would take to make one of these teams and he seems ready to go after it. He probably will be a regular at the informal pickup games that our association organizes over the summer. However, he also seems willing to take some time each day to just practice. Anyone have some good stuff that he can do alone or he and I can do together?

At his age I was introduced to Will Coerver's drills. I have also heard good stuff about the Soccer Beast Mode 25000 touches program. Thoughts, suggestions.



Yes to both of those. There are ton of Coerver drills that are built for individual. You don't want/can't really have him do both, but if you do Coerver, build some daily stuff he can do that gets him to a goal of touches every day.

ETA: There also drills where you can work on his kicking (passing/shooting) technique. What I can't stress enough is to make sure whatever he is doing, he is doing with the proper technique. We've had some girls come to us in the last two years (high school age) where they have great skill, but someone either taught them jacked up technique or they (coach/parent) didn't know what they were doing was wrong... There's a point where we can't fix it.

If you feel like you need a "professional" to look at his technique, do it now. It's like golfing... you can move yourself around the golf course with messed up swings, but if you want to actually be good, you've gotta be in the right ballpark with the technique (Furyk aside.)
So Coerver, Beast mode, or other? Do you have a recommendation/link for a plan. I can create something but no reason to reinvent the wheel.
References to drill on passing/shooting technique?

and yes I hear you on technique. Teaching a kid technique to strike the ball correctly is hard. Some kids just don't have body understanding of what it means to really lock that ankle, plant correctly, follow through, and land etc. It is also something that is hard to teach when you have a whole team of boys (some of whom are not so focused and can disrupt others).
Depends on your son's age. We really liked Coerver and started our girls on it as soon as we kind of supplanted the two dads that were kind of half-assing their way through stuff (HEAVY reliance on sharks and minnows and shit like that.) My co-coach went through some Coerver training and so we had access to drills that way, but if you spend some time digging around on YouTube, you will be able to put together some nice plans that way.

In terms of kicking technique, we would pull 3 or 4 off to the side while the rest were doing something else. And we would give certain players homework: 1) Lay on your back, lock your ankle and kick the ball up in the air.. x50 each foot, every day. 2) Stand up, lock your ankle, kick the ball into the lower part of your couch (or where ever your parents decide is ok) x50, each foot, every day.

We "fixed" 6 or 7 girls that we brought onto the team with combo of at practice small group work, and if they did the HW... We saw marked improvement.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian »

I grew up on Coerver, and I think it is crucial for developing balance and ball control. It's not easy to get kids to do Coerver drills on their own. We used Coerver at practices after warmups. 7-8 yo girls were able to keep focused on it for 15 minutes, if you kept giving them feedback, and switched drills every minute or two. Just make sure he gets it right. They all try to go too fast at first. Go slow until he has the motions down, and then pick up speed. I'd recommend using Coerver drills to get warmup up, then add in drills that are more fun.

The camp I went to as a kid was Coerver based, and the man himself led morning warmups a couple of times. He scared the fuck out of me. A tiny skeleton in a tracksuit barking commands in Dutch.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

We're all but sure (going for a check up tomorrow) our oldest got concussed in the second half of the final game of a tournament her team played (and won their bracket) over the weekend. She came out on the wrong end of a collision with a hulking "11 year old" wearing 00, and hit the ground face first. Reviewing my photos from the game, I ended up taking a shot with them in close proximity and may post it if I stay angry enough. Ridiculous.

This is her second concussion in the last year. She recovered from the one last fall pretty quickly, and has been fine since. She took a hard fall yesterday, so I don't know that they are anyway related. We're just worried, and not sure how worried to be and what form that worry should take in order to be productive. I'm seeing protective headgear in her future...
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

That stinks...sorry to hear about that Rass. Take it careful, way too young to start with concussion problems.

I had a less than proud parent moment this weekend. The 3rd game of the U-12 rec team I coach was very physical and ref was letting them play. Arms up, elbows to heads, my son hacking kids who beat him without getting a foul called against him. The other coach starts telling his kids to play more physical. I was screaming for fouls, the other coach is yelling at my players, my assistant starts yelling at their coach, I am yelling at my assistant coach to zip it, I am yelling at the other coach to not talk to my kid or my assistant coach. Just Crazy. I got a talking to in the first half from the ref.

From that game, as half time I walk up to the official and explained that I thought the game needed to be called tighter. He said, "These are not fouls because there was no intention." I explained that last time I looked the rule book had rules and just because he did not mean to foul someone you still have to call it. He just waved me off. So I continued (And crossed the line) with, "I guess I am lucky I am not going to get further warning or ejected because, I don't intend to come off as a jerk, yelling and screaming at you, but how loose this rec game is being called that is the result." Then I walked away before seeing his response.

Earlier in the day my son picked up a yellow. So the ref swings by and I politely ask what the yellow was for (I did not have a good view of my sons behavior but pretty sure he deserved a card). He said "Revenge". I said, okay I will speak to him, but do have a question. How can it be revenge, there was no foul call on the other kid. It can only be "revenge" if the other kid did something, right? So what I think you just said to me is you missed making a call or choose not to call a foul and then my team was carded in part because of that decision. He bumble and stumbled trying to respond and I let him off the hook by responding with a big smile, "just giving you a hard time sir"

Like I said...not my proudest moment upon further reflection. I try to set a better example for the kids (and really as a lacrosse official should have a higher threshold as I know I have driven coaches crazy).
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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Here's the thing, though... You have every right to have that discussion. One of us ALWAYS has a chat pre-game with our refs after seeing too many games where the ref swallowed his/her whistle and shit gets totally off the rails. Our message is simple: Call a tight game, we are tired of seeing girls getting hurt. Call it on us, call it on them.

I often add in "just because they're girls, sure doesn't mean their not fouling." Because I have a really strong sense that male refs swallow their whistles when reffing girls games due to bias. I've seen more nasty off the ball stuff from girls than I saw playing / coaching boys.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Nonlinear FC wrote:Here's the thing, though... You have every right to have that discussion. One of us ALWAYS has a chat pre-game with our refs after seeing too many games where the ref swallowed his/her whistle and shit gets totally off the rails. Our message is simple: Call a tight game, we are tired of seeing girls getting hurt. Call it on us, call it on them.

I often add in "just because they're girls, sure doesn't mean their not fouling." Because I have a really strong sense that male refs swallow their whistles when reffing girls games due to bias. I've seen more nasty off the ball stuff from girls than I saw playing / coaching boys.
Well as someone who refs, I probably pushed right up against acceptable behavior. I also should have had that conversation before the game, not during it from the sideline. I was reasonable at half time.

The bigger issue is refs adjusting to the level of the game. The same ref who was working your top notch Developmental game will get a lower age/level game the next day. What is not a foul in one is a foul in another. For example, I had a Regional Semifinal in Loudon Co on Wed. Two great teams. Clean physical lacrosse. We were practically invisible. Then yesterday I was calling 4 U-10 lower B (which means younger in the U-10 bracket and lower skill level) playoff games. You want to call that tight but that switch is big. It is the reason that many of our officials stop doing youth games when they move up the ranks. I do it to mentor younger officials and ensure we train them so they don't get bad habits. But that is tough transition.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian »

wlu_lax6 wrote: Earlier in the day my son picked up a yellow. So the ref swings by and I politely ask what the yellow was for (I did not have a good view of my sons behavior but pretty sure he deserved a card). He said "Revenge"


and muttered "for his asshole father's behavior"
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

The Sybian wrote:
wlu_lax6 wrote: Earlier in the day my son picked up a yellow. So the ref swings by and I politely ask what the yellow was for (I did not have a good view of my sons behavior but pretty sure he deserved a card). He said "Revenge"


and muttered "for his asshole father's behavior"
I had actually not said anything to the Ref before that one. He called a very tight game and even. Parents did not like that fact that only 30% of throw ins were not called foul the first time...but I think it is good to teach the kids the right way.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by testuser2 »

For those with BTN... The PSU/UNC Women's team play tonight at 7pm. The younger boy's team(u9) is walking out with the players for the anthem and then scrimmaging each other at halftime. They may even make it on the TV broadcast.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

So coaching U-12 boys in a low level travel league this year, basically rec with other cross organization games. Rain out for my one practice before our first game (8:30 AM Saturday). I know 4 of the kids from last year and have a whole new bunch of players. Have to hand out uniforms, get them warmed up, get the goals moved into the right spots, and a starting lineup before the game.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

To coach heading or not?
Okay Swamp folks. My u-12 league now allows heading the ball. Have never been allowed to coach it before because of the US Soccer/League rules. Now I can teach it (limited amount in practice allowed). However, I am sure I will have some parents prefer if I put them in a bubble and just not teach it. My thought is I would rather teach them how to do it correctly than have them just wing it in a game (which has happened in our games to date). Thoughts?

Oh and back in my day we headed and headed and headed and it never hurt me (b.t.w. this is a joke..I recognize new knowledge in brain health...and you have seen my spelling).
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

Ugh.

We just realized last weekend that the NJ league we're in allows heading starting at U11 (we thought it was U13, so either it changed or we've been wrong). As a result, the trainer did a couple of basic drills last week, and we actually had a girl head a ball in game for the first time yesterday. Our kid has had two minor concussions (minor in that she seemingly fully recovered from them both in less than a month, and only began playing after clearing PT) in the past year so we're not super thrilled.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

so at last nights board meeting i was elected club president.. let the fun begin...

we have no bylaws (at least not a complete set) -- so the process of adding volunteers to the board (13 positions, only 6 on the board) is murky at best...
we have a quit a tidy sum of cash in the bank.. but no one has filed taxes in some time.. we are a 503c.. and do have a tax id#..
we have a bank account.. but no physical address (aside from either the president or treasurer's house)
haven't had an open meeting in ever. until last month we didn't even reach out to the parents (did it through the coaches... who of course failed to fwd emails most of the time)
we do have a cool new website.. but haven't finialized moving the domain over to us.

it's a small-ish town.. 13k -- two clubs.. a rec club.. mtsc.. and a travel club.. mtsc.. both came out of .. mtsc.. if you are from 'central' nj ... you may know the name spencer rockman.. well apparently he was one of the founders... there's a movement from the rec side (well organized, over 350 players) to join up with travel (190 players) and make us one club again.. i'm in favor of it.. but of course, there's all kinds of factions... peopple who won't work with others because of their egos or perceived agendas.. there's the townies and those of us who have been here 10 to 20 yrs..

and we keep losing players.. i'm ok to losing them to the true academies.. Cedar Stars, Red Bull, PDA, NJ Elite.. but not to Copa, Jersey Knights, Valencia or any other such nonsense... why do we lose kids to the 2nd tier academies/clubs? lack of organization.. too much parent involvement ("no way my kid is playing for that guy".. "only reason that kid is on travel is because his dad is the coach/president/etc.") crappy trainers -- USA soccer for many years, then AP2T - both brought on due to personal relationships.. so no actual program.. and parent coaches.... but i have a plan to address that.. but first i need to get my people on the board.... and make sure that the $$ issues are taken care off.

any of you with related experience have any advice or experience in putting together a rec/travel program?

had some volunteers come out last night and tell the board why they want in.. of the six on now.. i have 3 votes to get everyone on.. the remaining four can't stand the volunteers who will actually help.. true, one of them is on the rec board.. but none on our board besides me asked any questions about conflict of interest or agenda.. so i'm of to the training pitch tonight... i'm no longer coaching a team (lost kids to valencia/jk and due to age change) but assisting on my son's team (a tale for another day).. so will be walking around getting feedback, complaints and trying to sway the remaining board members... at least two of them.

man.. i remember when my biggest worry on friday night was remembering to take my laptpop bag home from the bar after a long happy hour.

wtf.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass »

elflaco wrote:so at last nights board meeting i was elected club president.. let the fun begin...


Oh man. Good luck.

Just managing both of my kids' teams (which amounts to sending a lot of emails/texts and harassing our scheduler and the occasional parent) is more than enough for me.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Coached my son's rec team on Saturday morning before going to Yom Kippur services.....Let's just say the big man/gal/thing above was vengenful for that decision. Well that and a team of kids from annandale who were clearly not rec level...They scored one off a bicycle kick straight from a corner and another off a vicious side volley.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by testuser2 »

Good luck flaco. Parents suck. Our board only allows members with an actual responsibility for the club. Marketing, development, secretary, coaching director, treasurer, etc... We've been able to pull some really good coaches from the University that don't have kids in the club. Some grad students that played in college/professionally, faculty members that have UEFA coaching licenses, NCAA volunteer coaches that need income, etc... You might be able to get a few of those types of coaches to at least direct your training and be game coaches. We never allow parents to coach an actual game with their kid on it.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

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elflaco wrote:so at last nights board meeting i was elected club president.. let the fun begin...

we have no bylaws (at least not a complete set) -- so the process of adding volunteers to the board (13 positions, only 6 on the board) is murky at best...
we have a quit a tidy sum of cash in the bank.. but no one has filed taxes in some time.. we are a 503c.. and do have a tax id#..
we have a bank account.. but no physical address (aside from either the president or treasurer's house)
haven't had an open meeting in ever. until last month we didn't even reach out to the parents (did it through the coaches... who of course failed to fwd emails most of the time)
we do have a cool new website.. but haven't finialized moving the domain over to us.

it's a small-ish town.. 13k -- two clubs.. a rec club.. mtsc.. and a travel club.. mtsc.. both came out of .. mtsc.. if you are from 'central' nj ... you may know the name spencer rockman.. well apparently he was one of the founders... there's a movement from the rec side (well organized, over 350 players) to join up with travel (190 players) and make us one club again.. i'm in favor of it.. but of course, there's all kinds of factions... peopple who won't work with others because of their egos or perceived agendas.. there's the townies and those of us who have been here 10 to 20 yrs..

and we keep losing players.. i'm ok to losing them to the true academies.. Cedar Stars, Red Bull, PDA, NJ Elite.. but not to Copa, Jersey Knights, Valencia or any other such nonsense... why do we lose kids to the 2nd tier academies/clubs? lack of organization.. too much parent involvement ("no way my kid is playing for that guy".. "only reason that kid is on travel is because his dad is the coach/president/etc.") crappy trainers -- USA soccer for many years, then AP2T - both brought on due to personal relationships.. so no actual program.. and parent coaches.... but i have a plan to address that.. but first i need to get my people on the board.... and make sure that the $$ issues are taken care off.

any of you with related experience have any advice or experience in putting together a rec/travel program?

had some volunteers come out last night and tell the board why they want in.. of the six on now.. i have 3 votes to get everyone on.. the remaining four can't stand the volunteers who will actually help.. true, one of them is on the rec board.. but none on our board besides me asked any questions about conflict of interest or agenda.. so i'm of to the training pitch tonight... i'm no longer coaching a team (lost kids to valencia/jk and due to age change) but assisting on my son's team (a tale for another day).. so will be walking around getting feedback, complaints and trying to sway the remaining board members... at least two of them.

man.. i remember when my biggest worry on friday night was remembering to take my laptpop bag home from the bar after a long happy hour.

wtf.


I may have your answer. We are playing your U-9 girls this weekend (you around Sunday afternoon?), and got a strange message from the team manager, telling us to make sure to have our players shower immediately after the game, due to poor field drainage on the field causing excessive bacteria growth. Super excited to play there!
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by mister d »

I call perv.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal »

mister d wrote:I call perv.


Yeah.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco »

The Sybian wrote:
elflaco wrote:so at last nights board meeting i was elected club president.. let the fun begin...

we have no bylaws (at least not a complete set) -- so the process of adding volunteers to the board (13 positions, only 6 on the board) is murky at best...
we have a quit a tidy sum of cash in the bank.. but no one has filed taxes in some time.. we are a 503c.. and do have a tax id#..
we have a bank account.. but no physical address (aside from either the president or treasurer's house)
haven't had an open meeting in ever. until last month we didn't even reach out to the parents (did it through the coaches... who of course failed to fwd emails most of the time)
we do have a cool new website.. but haven't finialized moving the domain over to us.

it's a small-ish town.. 13k -- two clubs.. a rec club.. mtsc.. and a travel club.. mtsc.. both came out of .. mtsc.. if you are from 'central' nj ... you may know the name spencer rockman.. well apparently he was one of the founders... there's a movement from the rec side (well organized, over 350 players) to join up with travel (190 players) and make us one club again.. i'm in favor of it.. but of course, there's all kinds of factions... peopple who won't work with others because of their egos or perceived agendas.. there's the townies and those of us who have been here 10 to 20 yrs..

and we keep losing players.. i'm ok to losing them to the true academies.. Cedar Stars, Red Bull, PDA, NJ Elite.. but not to Copa, Jersey Knights, Valencia or any other such nonsense... why do we lose kids to the 2nd tier academies/clubs? lack of organization.. too much parent involvement ("no way my kid is playing for that guy".. "only reason that kid is on travel is because his dad is the coach/president/etc.") crappy trainers -- USA soccer for many years, then AP2T - both brought on due to personal relationships.. so no actual program.. and parent coaches.... but i have a plan to address that.. but first i need to get my people on the board.... and make sure that the $$ issues are taken care off.

any of you with related experience have any advice or experience in putting together a rec/travel program?

had some volunteers come out last night and tell the board why they want in.. of the six on now.. i have 3 votes to get everyone on.. the remaining four can't stand the volunteers who will actually help.. true, one of them is on the rec board.. but none on our board besides me asked any questions about conflict of interest or agenda.. so i'm of to the training pitch tonight... i'm no longer coaching a team (lost kids to valencia/jk and due to age change) but assisting on my son's team (a tale for another day).. so will be walking around getting feedback, complaints and trying to sway the remaining board members... at least two of them.

man.. i remember when my biggest worry on friday night was remembering to take my laptpop bag home from the bar after a long happy hour.

wtf.


I may have your answer. We are playing your U-9 girls this weekend (you around Sunday afternoon?), and got a strange message from the team manager, telling us to make sure to have our players shower immediately after the game, due to poor field drainage on the field causing excessive bacteria growth. Super excited to play there!


wtf?
U9.. so you're playing Lightning... that means Mark. ese tipo es un pendejo hijueputa. if not Mark... either way, pm/email me!

you're likely playing at Charles #2 -- that's bs.. that's our 'newer' turf field. no drainage issues there.. besides the usual complaints about turf, have never heard anything like that. if we have you at Vidas... or Hampton.. those are grass fields with good drainage

that is a new team/coach... was driving previous president crzy. he volunteered for the board .. we didn't even interview him. was at the meeting last week.

and yeah, should be around. the boy's team is playing on saturday afternoon (because the team's hc is really a baseball guy and fuck that guy).. and as NYRB is playing at home saturday evening.. i'm going to the game with 2 extras.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal »

PS - after the game, ask for Jonathan, he's in charge of hosing off the younglings.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by HaulCitgo »

You might invest some of those fees on D&O insurance
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC »

rass wrote:Ugh.

We just realized last weekend that the NJ league we're in allows heading starting at U11 (we thought it was U13, so either it changed or we've been wrong). As a result, the trainer did a couple of basic drills last week, and we actually had a girl head a ball in game for the first time yesterday. Our kid has had two minor concussions (minor in that she seemingly fully recovered from them both in less than a month, and only began playing after clearing PT) in the past year so we're not super thrilled.



I missed this... Apologies for that.

Heading a soccer ball isn't/shouldn't be such a big deal. I think the issue is, especially for the little ones, is teaching them not to be afraid, because when you tense up your neck/shoulders, you are going to get hurt.

Teach them at first using rubber balls (like the ones you use to play dodge ball), and really drill the spot on the dome they want to focus on (right on or below the hair line, depending on whatever weird 'do they are rocking.)

And teach them to steer clear of trying to head punts. Do this by literally having them lineup and then punt balls at them, so they know what it's going to look like.

There's lots more to say, but the biggest issue is to erase the fear. Sometimes that even requires an email out to parents, chill the fuck out, we're going to teach them the proper technique and this is part of the game.

And, btw, you typically don't get a concussion from just heading a ball. The concussions come from players coming together (heads knocking, elbows flying.)
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