More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:22 pm

rass wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:07 pm
Ah, puberty. I didn’t mean that. More that if she plays up, once the girls one year older hit HS she might very well be out a team, at least for the fall.
If she goes club, she'd play at her age, and if she stays travel and plays older, she'd play for the high school team (reigning State Champions!) in the fall, so no issue there. And I'm sure she could return to 2009 for her senior year spring season.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:01 am

The Sybian wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:22 pm
rass wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:07 pm
Ah, puberty. I didn’t mean that. More that if she plays up, once the girls one year older hit HS she might very well be out a team, at least for the fall.
If she goes club, she'd play at her age, and if she stays travel and plays older, she'd play for the high school team (reigning State Champions!) in the fall, so no issue there. And I'm sure she could return to 2009 for her senior year spring season.
The amount of club teams that stick together through senior season, especially through the spring is pretty small. Keeping a team through spring of junior year is a huge challenge. A lot of these girls will start to really examine how much longer they want to play (college ball) and start to really resent slogging through practices once the realization/decision about college soccer sets in.

We folded our B team after Junior year and kind of regretted not doing the same with the A team. We had built the A team around a mix of juniors and seniors and 90 percent of the seniors were done after their high school season ended.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:16 pm

This whole tryout process is driving me nuts now. Signed my daughter up for 2 elite program tryouts (STA and PDA). She was having anxiety issues over STA, and didn't want to go. She was freaking out because it was the same time as her first practice with her team's new trainer. The old trainer got a job with Man City's youth academy, and somehow chose that over a suburban NJ travel team, so they had to bring in reinforcements from England. We now have a female trainer, and if not for her wearing her company's shirt, you couldn't pick her out from the 11 year old players. I let her skip STA, and she agreed to go to PDA, but she insists she won't consider any clubs, but will only stay with her current team.

This year is going well, but I'm really stressed over what is going to happen. My daughter is a 2009, playing 2008, and our club has a mixed 2008/2009 B team. That team plays in the same flight as Rass' youngest, and they are a complete shit show. They get mercy ruled within 10 minutes most games. (Not to take away from Rass' daughter scoring 4 goals against them). I think a lot of those girls must be considering quitting. The coach told all the 2009 girls they will all move to the 2009 A team, despite that not having a chance in hell of working out, and the 2009 coach didn't mince his words on that. He is afraid they will stick him with too many kids, and the 2009s on the B team are worse than playing a man down. For real.

Anyways, my daughter went to PDA tryouts, and she held her own, but I don't think she would thrive in their style. They play extremely physical, often crossing the border on dirty. There were about 50 girls at tryouts, 5 or 6 stood out as tremendous talents, about 10 were clearly out classed, and the rest were hard to differentiate. No idea how they make that decision from 3 hours of watching 50 girls scrimmage. My daughter had a teammate there with her, the other 2009 girl playing up. Her mother pointed out one superstar girl who was at least 6 inches taller than every other kid. She said, "I follow her Instagram page. She is training one-on-one with a trainer in Long Island." Super.

Back to my point, the best player on my daughters team showed up to the 2008 PDA tryout, and her mother said she got called back for NJ Elites, and she is trying out for the town 2007 team. Now I hear another girl on our team is trying out for 2007. Our goalie is moving, and she has a sister on the 2009 team, so that's 2 definitely gone. A friend went to the CenterCourt tryouts, and there were 3 more girls from our town there. I'm panicking about what we are going to be left with. We won't have enough for 3 teams, and I'm worried about the club making us take every player, so we will have huge rosters, and lots of the B team girls joining my daughters team. I can't stress enough how bad some of these girls are. I could also see the club making my daughter go back to the 2009 team, because the numbers won't work out otherwise. She played a scrimmage with them, and the gap has grown, and other parents are annoyed having her there. I'm sending my daughter to the second CenterCourt tryout just to have an option. My impression is that they charge a ton of money, and it isn't a great program, but I could be wrong there. On the plus side, it is a hell of a lot closer than the elite clubs.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:04 am

Thanks for the shout out!

It's nuts that with as many kids as BH has playing soccer that they're in danger of not being able to field a competitive team at that age.

I don't know much about CFC (I did some basic scouting when my older daughter's team was supposed to play them in an eventually cancelled due to snow Spring kickoff tourney) other than the fact that their top level 06 girls team is top 10 in the state (that appears to be the case for their 08 team, too). But they have locations all over the place, so I don't know where the higher level teams practice. Have you looked at any other town clubs, just for more options? NP teams have always been pretty good every time we've played them, if they allow out of town kids. You're really going to push the bounds of the work at home dad with this, huh?

The youngest casually dropped in conversation this week that she was talking with a friend at school who plays for another club (*Ironbound) and she thinks she could play for them if she tried out. Her team is not very good, and I don't know that it's going to get better. Our current club has two 07 girls teams (at least one with numerous 08 players, which is a team that came over intact from Kenilworth soccer in the middle of the fall season) and then her 08 team. Ideally, with the 07 teams going 11v11 in the fall, they should end up with one solid 07 team with the best 07 kids and then have the younger girls go back to the 08 team, but I think they're going to try to keep all three teams and end up with three mediocre to bad products. My kid is not ready to play full field in the fall.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by testuser2 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:58 am

Why do they have that team in that flight? Is it an ego thing that they won't play in a lower division?

Guesting on teams may be an option if you like your training sessions. Does your club offer anything like that? We have relationships with a few other clubs that we reach out to for guests in tournaments. Leagues typically don't allow guests. My youngest is on a coed 2009 team. We have two guests for a tournament this weekend. We have another 4 kids on our team that guest elsewhere.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:48 am

rass wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:04 am
Thanks for the shout out!

It's nuts that with as many kids as BH has playing soccer that they're in danger of not being able to field a competitive team at that age.

I don't know much about CFC (I did some basic scouting when my older daughter's team was supposed to play them in an eventually cancelled due to snow Spring kickoff tourney) other than the fact that their top level 06 girls team is top 10 in the state (that appears to be the case for their 08 team, too). But they have locations all over the place, so I don't know where the higher level teams practice. Have you looked at any other town clubs, just for more options? NP teams have always been pretty good every time we've played them, if they allow out of town kids. You're really going to push the bounds of the work at home dad with this, huh?

The youngest casually dropped in conversation this week that she was talking with a friend at school who plays for another club (*Ironbound) and she thinks she could play for them if she tried out. Her team is not very good, and I don't know that it's going to get better. Our current club has two 07 girls teams (at least one with numerous 08 players, which is a team that came over intact from Kenilworth soccer in the middle of the fall season) and then her 08 team. Ideally, with the 07 teams going 11v11 in the fall, they should end up with one solid 07 team with the best 07 kids and then have the younger girls go back to the 08 team, but I think they're going to try to keep all three teams and end up with three mediocre to bad products. My kid is not ready to play full field in the fall.
I'm only looking at CenterCourt Gillette, not willing to drive further than that. CenterCourt Mount Olive has some relationship with Arsenal,which tempts me, but no way I'm driving that far. My niece plays periodically for CC Chatham. I think they pay, and show up once every 2 months for a tournament.

My daughter is playing Union County FC this summer, and they start full year at U12, so that's an option for 2020. I hear it's primarily the Westfield A team moves into that program, but it'll be good to play there for a summer and get a feel.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:11 pm

Just got off two separate hour long calls with soccer buddies. I'm seriously considering hopping into the goalkeeper training biz as a side hustle.

Need to figure out some logistics and pull together a bio, but after posting a fairly casual update about training the other day, I have 3 separate parents reaching out trying to schedule something.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:16 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:48 am
My daughter is playing Union County FC this summer, and they start full year at U12, so that's an option for 2020. I hear it's primarily the Westfield A team moves into that program, but it'll be good to play there for a summer and get a feel.
I would believe that. They used to have signs for both clubs up at the big turf field complex in Westfield.


We have some friends who have taken their kids to Parma (in Edison?). Not sure how good they are. Oldest kid's team played and beat them in the fall (including a girl who they're all still friends with who left the U for Parma, so maybe there was some extra motivation on our side). The other family we know that went there (two girls, U14 and another a couple of years older) are pretty competent and I don't think they would have bothered for just a lateral move.

Talked it over with my wife and might take the youngest to Ironbound tryouts next week just to see. They play in NCSA and I have no idea what that is like.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:17 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:11 pm
Just got off two separate hour long calls with soccer buddies. I'm seriously considering hopping into the goalkeeper training biz as a side hustle.

Need to figure out some logistics and pull together a bio, but after posting a fairly casual update about training the other day, I have 3 separate parents reaching out trying to schedule something.
I saw your wistful post on FB. Good luck.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:17 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:11 pm
Just got off two separate hour long calls with soccer buddies. I'm seriously considering hopping into the goalkeeper training biz as a side hustle.

Need to figure out some logistics and pull together a bio, but after posting a fairly casual update about training the other day, I have 3 separate parents reaching out trying to schedule something.
You can charge $100 an hour and the parents won't blink.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:32 pm

tennbengal wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:17 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:11 pm
Just got off two separate hour long calls with soccer buddies. I'm seriously considering hopping into the goalkeeper training biz as a side hustle.

Need to figure out some logistics and pull together a bio, but after posting a fairly casual update about training the other day, I have 3 separate parents reaching out trying to schedule something.
You can charge $100 an hour and the parents won't blink.
That's what one of the guys I referenced above said. And do an incremental amount if it's more than one kid. But I need to cap it at 3 kids because you get 5 or 6 and now you're herding cats. I'd have to build up to doing clinics.

The other guy is super plugged into one of the biggest clubs in the area (Bethesda) and also knows Sasho at MD really well. If he goes to those guys and they push my name around just a little bit, I'd pretty quickly have to start scrambling to cover the gigs. Not sure I want to go there just yet.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:56 pm

rass wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:16 pm
The Sybian wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:48 am
My daughter is playing Union County FC this summer, and they start full year at U12, so that's an option for 2020. I hear it's primarily the Westfield A team moves into that program, but it'll be good to play there for a summer and get a feel.
I would believe that. They used to have signs for both clubs up at the big turf field complex in Westfield.


We have some friends who have taken their kids to Parma (in Edison?). Not sure how good they are. Oldest kid's team played and beat them in the fall (including a girl who they're all still friends with who left the U for Parma, so maybe there was some extra motivation on our side). The other family we know that went there (two girls, U14 and another a couple of years older) are pretty competent and I don't think they would have bothered for just a lateral move.

Talked it over with my wife and might take the youngest to Ironbound tryouts next week just to see. They play in NCSA and I have no idea what that is like.
Shit gets even more complicated. My co-coach from last year too his daughter to CenterCourt yesterday (I missed the first tryout), and he already got a call offering his daughter a spot on the first team. His daughter is probably the best player remaining on the town 2009 team, but it worries me if she is getting a first team offer halfway through tryouts. He has 3 days to make a decision, with a non-refundable $700 deposit. I think he is going to take the spot, because he is sick of the problems on his team, and worried about who the club will make him take. I thin we will be left with one 2009 team, 1 2008 team, and no B team. The other 2009 playing up with my daughter has been trying out for teams, despite telling me he wasn't when I sent him a link to some tryouts. Kind of disappointing, as we are friends, but he gets super competitive with his daughter's sports, and this isn't a shock. He pulled some similar shit last year.

So speaking of Parma, the other 2009 girl got an offer with Parma Scotch Plains' 2008 team. They don't have a 2009 team. If she is leaving, I really think I need out of the town club. I just heard 2 girls from the 2009 team are trying out for my daughters team. One is ranked 10 out of 12 on every coach's evaluation form for the 2009 team, no idea WTF her parents are thinking, but her mother was extremely jealous and upset when my daughter and her teammate moved up last year.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:30 pm

Hm. Parma tryouts are tonight.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:38 pm

These stories make me glad my daughter "retired" from volleyball.

Was recently around some parents that still have kids playing and were on the same middle school team as my youngest. There was always this one kid who seemed to play more than her talent warranted, but I figured she was just a teachers pet or better in practice or something. Didn't play same position as my daughter so it didn't affect us, but it was clear there were a couple of other girls that deserved some of this girls playing time. Anyway, fast forward, and I was told last weekend that her grandparents always made a 500 dollar donation at the beginning of the year for a "car wash" at the annual fundraiser. So, it may not be the reason, but it sure smells like it could be a reason.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by duff » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:56 pm

Didn't know Lori Laughlin had grandkids living in Kentucky.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:03 am

The Sybian wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:56 pm
My co-coach from last year too his daughter to CenterCourt yesterday (I missed the first tryout), and he already got a call offering his daughter a spot on the first team. His daughter is probably the best player remaining on the town 2009 team, but it worries me if she is getting a first team offer halfway through tryouts. He has 3 days to make a decision, with a non-refundable $700 deposit.
And concerns are confirmed. Sounds like just about everyone got an offer. Saves me the hassle of going to this tryout tonight.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by A_B » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:13 am

The Sybian wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:03 am
The Sybian wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:56 pm
My co-coach from last year too his daughter to CenterCourt yesterday (I missed the first tryout), and he already got a call offering his daughter a spot on the first team. His daughter is probably the best player remaining on the town 2009 team, but it worries me if she is getting a first team offer halfway through tryouts. He has 3 days to make a decision, with a non-refundable $700 deposit.
And concerns are confirmed. Sounds like just about everyone got an offer. Saves me the hassle of going to this tryout tonight.
We had a "club" war two seasons ago. A new club was started by a splinter group from the main one in town. So the main one added teams and guaranteed players "floor" spots on certain teams before tryout. Which means they might make a higher team but would be no lower than the one offered. I think I mentioned this at the time, actually.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:48 am

Tryout Time!

i had a whole rant. then deleted it. will come back to that once they're over in three weeks.

Syb.. good luck.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:58 pm

Yeah, reminiscing with my good buddy and former co-coach (referenced in the OP to this thread.) And I mentioned this very post and we laughed... I don't miss this time of year and all the scrambling. I mean, it was really fun when we pulled huge numbers in for the two teams, but then the hassle and haggling.

Good thing for me is my co-coach is a sales guy and he loves all that shit. I just liked working with the players and had very little to do with parents in that setting.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 pm

elflaco wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:48 am
Tryout Time!

i had a whole rant. then deleted it. will come back to that once they're over in three weeks.

Syb.. good luck.
good friends were with NJElite for a long time -- just left them for Copa (also looked at CSA) because apparently NJE has lost a lot of trainers and becoming run of the mill
NJElite partnered with DTS. All NJElite teams will have DTS trainers, and they changed the name to NJPremier. Then a week ago, I got an email that DTS is starting a new program called NJLions. Not sure what the deal is, or if DTS is still putting out teams in their own name. NJ Premier tryouts ended at 9:00 on Sundays, after my daughter had games, and we wouldn't get home until close to 10:00. Way too late on a school night for a 10 year old. Fuck that.

Going back to PDA tomorrow, and STA added a tryout date on Thursday, so going there, too. Just not sure I want to drive 30 minutes (without traffic) 3 days a week for practices.

Email came out today from the town club training director. They are combining 2009 and 2008 tryouts, likely going with 2 mixed aged teams, which means they would have to play 2008. I can't see how this isn't a horrible idea. Plus, the 2007 team is losing a couple players and moving to 11v11, so they are poaching 2 or 3 of our best players, and our only dedicated goalie is moving. Again, I can't see how this isn't a complete shit show. Within an hour of the email going out, the 2009 coach got 5 concerned calls. 3 worried about their kids being forced to play up, 2 worried about their kids being forced to play with Baby Coogs (that's for Rass), a kid who is worse than throwing on a traffic cone instead of a player. I get it that the club doesn't want to turn anyone away, but the town has a rec league for this reason.

If my daughter and the other 2009 playing up went back to 2009, and we kept only the best 12 2009s, we would have a very competitive Flight 1 team, but then what do they do with the other 4 or 5 2009s? Won't have enough for a third B- team to dump the chaff from both groups, and I can't imagine they will fuck over the 2008s with the 2009 dregs. I just don't see any viable solution here.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:58 am

The Sybian wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 pm
If my daughter and the other 2009 playing up went back to 2009, and we kept only the best 12 2009s, we would have a very competitive Flight 1 team, but then what do they do with the other 4 or 5 2009s? Won't have enough for a third B- team to dump the chaff from both groups, and I can't imagine they will fuck over the 2008s with the 2009 dregs. I just don't see any viable solution here.
Rec? It's bullshit that you have enough 09 girls for a team and they are going to force everyone to play up. You either need to raise hell about that or get out.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:14 am

rass wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:58 am
The Sybian wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 pm
If my daughter and the other 2009 playing up went back to 2009, and we kept only the best 12 2009s, we would have a very competitive Flight 1 team, but then what do they do with the other 4 or 5 2009s? Won't have enough for a third B- team to dump the chaff from both groups, and I can't imagine they will fuck over the 2008s with the 2009 dregs. I just don't see any viable solution here.
Rec? It's bullshit that you have enough 09 girls for a team and they are going to force everyone to play up. You either need to raise hell about that or get out.
They haven't decided anything, and there are a lot of girls who haven't decided on staying vs going to a club. It all depends on who plans on staying, and where we are at numbers wise. I'm frustrated, because we were planning on moving up to EDP next year, but I think we lose 2 or 3 top players either to club, or the 2007 team, who is short players. And we are losing our goalie, and we aren't going to EDP with rotating everyone in goal. I would have been happy if things could have stayed the same.

If we keep a 2009 team, the powers that be have said (not to me) that my daughter would stay up with 2008s. If they are forced to have a huge roster, they are stuck with 3 kids who really bring down the level, and the 2008s will be much, much weaker than the current A team. Or we could have a very strong 2009 team, and one very bad 2008 team, or the two mixed teams, which the B team will be stronger but half 2009s, and the A team will be much weaker than the current A team, with 5 or 6 2009s. No matter how they slice it, someone is getting fucked.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Fri May 03, 2019 11:51 am

The situation is rapidly deteriorating here. We went to the second tryout at PDA, and my daughter put out her best effort. She had a lot of the ball, and it was amazing watching her with an elite group, just a different level of passing and positioning than I've ever seen. She kept going out wide on the wings, and teammates would draw the defence, dish it to her, and she scored at least 10 goals. Then I looked at the second field, and it was pretty clear they separated the best girls onto the other field. Every 15 minutes, they would swap out a girl or two. My daughter even noticed, saying she thought she played well, but never got onto the field with the best players. At 10 years old, there were at least 6 girls who could hang on a HS varsity team for sure. The intensity and physicality is definitely beyond my daughters ability. No final decision, but we are not expecting that call.

STA, the second best club added a tryout date for yesterday. I was fool, and didn't force my daughter to go to the initial tryouts, because she was dead set on staying with her current team. We went yesterday, and they had about 5 girls joining in the STA team's practice. I don't know if it was the heat, but my daughter just didn't play well. Really lazy and sluggish. It went from 80 to 60 in about 10 minutes, as we were just outside of a huge thunderstorm. Totally crazy weather. I got sunburn in the first hour, and it suddenly turned black, and really strong winds came out of nowhere. As it cooled off, she came to life and played ok, but not great. Looking at the team, I don't think any of the 30 or players (3 squads combined) were any better than my daughter.

So last night we found out the other 2009 girl playing up with my daughter got an offer at STA. Her father knew someone who is friends with the coach, and asked for a private tryout. The shady fucker didn't tell us until after. 4 more 2008s decided to leave. Our second best player made the idiotic decision to go to CenterCourt, who is relentlessly pursuing mediocre kids by continually dropping the price. This girl has serious skills, and she is paying $3000 to play with kids who didn't make her current team.

ETA: Just checked my inbox, and my daughter was given a second chance at STA. Asked her to come back to their training on Monday. If she plays like she did at PDA, I think she has a great chance at getting a spot. If she play like she did yesterday, I can't imagine her getting a spot.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Tue May 07, 2019 9:03 pm

I've left you all in suspense for to long. Be glad I am sparing you most of the drama of the past week. Last minute signed up for NJElites. Learned that the team my daughter's age is extremely good, continually beating PDA and STA teams, undefeated in the top league. Super. Go to tryouts, my daughter did well, and she was really excited afterwards. She really liked the girls, she fit right in and they all passed and moved the ball well as a team. So Elites is part of a town travel program, but they have an academy teams. It's weird, because the town is next to mine, but most of their teams train and play 30 minutes away, because they partnered with a trainers there. The training company broke away, and formed a new academy this year.

On the field next to tryouts, there was an NJElite game going on, and when I went home, I realized it was the team I thought my daughter was trying out for. Thought it was weird, but it was a second tryout, we missed the first, maybe current players didn't need t go to both. The next day, I get a congratulations, you made the town travel team. After a lot of back and forth, wondering if they deemed her not good enough for Elite, it was a bait and switch, or I had the wrong tryout, I finally got an answer 5 minutes ago. Most of the Elite players are going to the new club, so they are not using the "Elite" name, but the town name. Playing in EDP (the better league), and planning on calling it Elite next year. So now I have 12 more hours to decide.

Looking at my town tryouts, we are looking at 2 teams with 3 or 4 players too many, and no possible team looks like a good fit. I don't know how I can justify to people on my town team that we are moving to what might be an equivalent neighboring town team, but this has potential upside that my town just doesn't have. On the one hand, I am avoiding a fuck ton of politics and bullshit with the local parents, but probably ostracizing us socially. If we were leaving for a big name academy, people get it, but to leave for another town might look like a dick move.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Wed May 08, 2019 5:57 am

The Sybian wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:03 pm
Looking at my town tryouts, we are looking at 2 teams with 3 or 4 players too many, and no possible team looks like a good fit. I don't know how I can justify to people on my town team that we are moving to what might be an equivalent neighboring town team, but this has potential upside that my town just doesn't have. On the one hand, I am avoiding a fuck ton of politics and bullshit with the local parents, but probably ostracizing us socially. If we were leaving for a big name academy, people get it, but to leave for another town might look like a dick move.
Assuming she'll be playing on an 09 team at NJElite? If so, giving her the opportunity to play at a higher level on an age appropriate team vs. the uncertainty of the situation in town (and even vs. the best case scenarios there) seems like a pretty easy choice to explain.

And hey buddy, if they treat you the way you fear they're going to, maybe they aren't really your friends?
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Wed May 08, 2019 6:03 am

(Not that I'm not worrying about the same thing right now. My oldest seems to be 99.9% set on this spring being her last soccer season, to allow her to concentrate more on training for track/running. She blew off soccer tryouts last night to run a fourth event at a big relay meet for her school. I guess we'll see if everyone still likes us when my kid is no longer one of the best players on a team with their kid, and I'm no longer the team manager.

The youngest has tryouts tonight, and barring something miraculous and unexpected at a concurrent parent meeting, she's going to Parma (08 B team) in the fall. After investing 5 years in that club it's going to be weird.)
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal » Wed May 08, 2019 6:18 am

Syb - next town over seems to me to be the only choice if soccer is really important to her.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Wed May 08, 2019 3:16 pm

rass wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:57 am
The Sybian wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:03 pm
Looking at my town tryouts, we are looking at 2 teams with 3 or 4 players too many, and no possible team looks like a good fit. I don't know how I can justify to people on my town team that we are moving to what might be an equivalent neighboring town team, but this has potential upside that my town just doesn't have. On the one hand, I am avoiding a fuck ton of politics and bullshit with the local parents, but probably ostracizing us socially. If we were leaving for a big name academy, people get it, but to leave for another town might look like a dick move.
Assuming she'll be playing on an 09 team at NJElite? If so, giving her the opportunity to play at a higher level on an age appropriate team vs. the uncertainty of the situation in town (and even vs. the best case scenarios there) seems like a pretty easy choice to explain.

And hey buddy, if they treat you the way you fear they're going to, maybe they aren't really your friends?
If the team was labelled NJElite, I'd have no qualms, but right now, they are calling it by the town team name. We accepted the offer. Worst case scenario, she is playing on a town team equivalent to our town team. She will drop down to her own age, so maybe that is worse...

I did learn that the head coach of her current team brought her daughter to Centercourt yesterday, so I feel no guilt there anymore. Centercourt is letting kids double card, so they can play CC and town club. I read that is no longer allowed next year, but they seem to have a work around. This all went to shit, as they are focused on the bottom rather than the top. We have a rec league, but they refuse to cut anyone, and that ends up driving away talented players. They keep saying it works with the boys, as there isn't the same drop between the best players, the middle and the bottom. It's drastic for the girls. Boys 2009 has 4 teams. The A team competes with the best academies. It's a shame they can't get the same number of girls, but dance and softball are the big draws in my town.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by govmentchedda » Wed May 08, 2019 3:18 pm

My 2014 is expressing an interest in playing. January birthday and he likes watching Barca and Man U. What could go wrong?
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Wed May 08, 2019 10:32 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:16 pm
Centercourt is letting kids double card, so they can play CC and town club. I read that is no longer allowed next year, but they seem to have a work around.
in NJ.. under NJYS... except for academy teams.. all travel/edp teams/clubs are required to allow you to double card.. need to get signatures from club officials and coaches.. not allowed if in same league (two travel clubs, or two maps clubs or two edp clubs) or if both teams are playing in the state cup (can only play for one)

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Thu May 09, 2019 7:17 am

elflaco wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:32 pm
The Sybian wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:16 pm
Centercourt is letting kids double card, so they can play CC and town club. I read that is no longer allowed next year, but they seem to have a work around.
in NJ.. under NJYS... except for academy teams.. all travel/edp teams/clubs are required to allow you to double card.. need to get signatures from club officials and coaches.. not allowed if in same league (two travel clubs, or two maps clubs or two edp clubs) or if both teams are playing in the state cup (can only play for one)
I saw something in a recent NJYS email that double carding would no longer be allowed next year. I didn't read it, because I didn't care at the time, so there may have been ways around that.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Thu May 09, 2019 7:22 am

ja!
lots of folks read that email came away thinking that (at least i hope its the same email.. from april 9)

it cleaned up the process that was in put in place for this spring -- what it says is that you cannot have two primary passes.. it also said the policies for secondary permissions are made at the league level.. so confusing at best.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by rass » Tue May 14, 2019 6:45 am

Informed the coach that this spring will be the oldest's final season playing soccer. I don't think I've ever had a more miserable spectating experience than this past Sunday, 9:30AM game time in a drenching rain and temps in the 40s, so it was an appropriate day to make that official.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by wlu_lax6 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:11 am

My son is thinking about trying out for travel. He is good enough to make one of the 4 levels of teams but has to decide if he wants to make that kind of commitment. He likes the discipline of training and kids who are focused (not a consistent thing in the rec and all star teams). But he also has other things he likes to do and is concerned about time for other activities.

On another note, my club has not common sense. Two years ago we had games on Yom Kippur..okay it was a Saturday and fields, club scheduling, etc...I get it. This year they did ECLN and Travel tryouts during Ramadan. I am not sure how many kids that really impacts but on my rec team I have 5 kids who basically are no shows this month (happy for a roster of 19 right now).

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Tue May 14, 2019 7:47 am

Tryouts end tonight.
i should link the Slack channel where all details and issues are being discussed by the board.

all issues come down to the decision by US Soccer to have all teams follow birth-year for Club and Travel players. Our club decided at the time (i was on the board) to allow each team to do as they wished. It was a weak move by a weak board. AT the time our club was just a shirt and a way for various teams to participate in league and tournaments. The club provided no guidance or assistance to teams. Oh, new coach? figure it out.. i'd just gotten on the board to begin to change this... at that time we also said, as we grandfathered existing teams, new teams would follow the US Soccer mandate..
fast forward to last year's tryouts.. all new teams were birth year teams.. and knowing we'd have the 07s go full sided in '19, approached the three coaches.. agreed we'd need to form no more than 2 full sided travel teams and (maybe) one intercounty team... all other discussions were similar -- move to birth year, don't fuck with teams going into their final two years.
so we come to the present
format went great, lots of folks (too many at times) volunteering to help out (as we're joining the Rec and Travel Programs into one, more folks to call on).. my role the first two sessions was to mainly watch over, answer questions from anxious parents, and parents who think their little johnny is the next tyler adams (i know he's a 2011 but he can play better than the 2010s.. why can't he play up?) and look presidential.. while fielding multitude of emails and texts from parent coaches who want exceptions... why can't so and so try out for this birth year while being younger, blah, blah, blah.
Slammed at work last two weeks, in crisis mode. Fecking tryouts. the time and energy spent in making it right.. only to have every decision questioned privately and publicly.. this doesn't pay enough... and even though my kid has said he isn't coming back (he plays club as well) to travel next year.. the board has asked me to stay...

meeting wed night to review 05,06,07 boys and girls teams.. board meeting (supposedly w coaches) to review all teams.
rant to come sometime after thursday.

i'd like to approach the other clubs in town -- two baseball, two football, field hockey, softball... and look to set up a working group towards field management and scheduling (all that goes through the Rec department, but they have no budget or any sense -- last year they wanted to charge us $15 per player fee so they could fund a turf field replacement..).. and will work for the Soccer club to hire out for a DOC and full time trainers for all. So prices going up!

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by The Sybian » Tue May 14, 2019 9:45 am

elflaco wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:47 am
Tryouts end tonight.
i should link the Slack channel where all details and issues are being discussed by the board.

all issues come down to the decision by US Soccer to have all teams follow birth-year for Club and Travel players. Our club decided at the time (i was on the board) to allow each team to do as they wished. It was a weak move by a weak board. AT the time our club was just a shirt and a way for various teams to participate in league and tournaments. The club provided no guidance or assistance to teams. Oh, new coach? figure it out.. i'd just gotten on the board to begin to change this... at that time we also said, as we grandfathered existing teams, new teams would follow the US Soccer mandate..
fast forward to last year's tryouts.. all new teams were birth year teams.. and knowing we'd have the 07s go full sided in '19, approached the three coaches.. agreed we'd need to form no more than 2 full sided travel teams and (maybe) one intercounty team... all other discussions were similar -- move to birth year, don't fuck with teams going into their final two years.
so we come to the present
format went great, lots of folks (too many at times) volunteering to help out (as we're joining the Rec and Travel Programs into one, more folks to call on).. my role the first two sessions was to mainly watch over, answer questions from anxious parents, and parents who think their little johnny is the next tyler adams (i know he's a 2011 but he can play better than the 2010s.. why can't he play up?) and look presidential.. while fielding multitude of emails and texts from parent coaches who want exceptions... why can't so and so try out for this birth year while being younger, blah, blah, blah.
Slammed at work last two weeks, in crisis mode. Fecking tryouts. the time and energy spent in making it right.. only to have every decision questioned privately and publicly.. this doesn't pay enough... and even though my kid has said he isn't coming back (he plays club as well) to travel next year.. the board has asked me to stay...

meeting wed night to review 05,06,07 boys and girls teams.. board meeting (supposedly w coaches) to review all teams.
rant to come sometime after thursday.

i'd like to approach the other clubs in town -- two baseball, two football, field hockey, softball... and look to set up a working group towards field management and scheduling (all that goes through the Rec department, but they have no budget or any sense -- last year they wanted to charge us $15 per player fee so they could fund a turf field replacement..).. and will work for the Soccer club to hire out for a DOC and full time trainers for all. So prices going up!
Turf replacement might be a good idea, I hear your turf is a bacterial petri dish. Ha!

I don't envy your position. Going through all the possibilities for the 2009s and 2008s in my town, they basically need to decide who they are going to fuck over, and they are going to have 10 angry parents no matter what they do. The only thing that made it easier to let everyone know I was taking my daughter out of the program was knowing I was making their job easier in not having to think about where to place her, and bringing down the roster numbers. Then again, with a lot more 2009s, it probably made it easier for them to keep her with the 2008s, since she was already there, and not bring others up. Now they might need to bring some 09s up, and the 3 best left the town. They had the 3 worst 09s playing up on the 08 B team, but with one 08 team, probably can't bring the worst up.The whole situation makes me sad. It's a great club, but the insistence on not cutting anyone (we have a PAL league in town) drives out the best talent.
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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Tue May 14, 2019 12:15 pm

yeah. that. the not cutting anyone.
by becoming one big club... we have Rec, Intercounty and Travel. no tryouts for rec. Tryouts/evaluations (one of the rec club members wants to call it a showcase because it may hurt some kids feelings if they don't do well... pussyfication of america)

basically anyone up to 5th grade can sign up to play rec
we'll assess/tryout kids from u8 up for travel -- no more than two travel teams per birth year (per gender)
everyone who doesn't make the cut, gets assigned to an intercounty team.

three big issues remain.
the 05s.. simply not enough boys in 8th grade next season, most going to 9th -- current coach, also rec club pres. insists we break up the 06 boys team and make an 05/06 team.. problem is the 06 is all 7th graders. so no room .. so 9 kids get no team. and Marko is not going happy. at all.

the 11/12s - the 11 team is 12 boys 1 girl. one of the boys is a 12. there are 12 boys trying out for a '12 team.. we bring down the one kid to play his birth year.. and move the girl to play 11 girls (next issue) but the '11 coach isn't happy because the '12 kid is his est player - scored al lthe goals and now the '12 team will have the benefit of an experienced player. bigger problem, the '11 coach is a friend and on the board.. not getting any favoritism.. really isnt' happy

the 10/11/12 girls. last year a board member pushed to have a '10 team... but ended up being combined...this year we have enough girls to have '10, '11, '12 girls teams.. so going to break up yet another team.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Wed May 15, 2019 6:16 am

we thought we had the 07 boys worked out....since last year we agreed w coaches .. when they go full sided, combine to make one strong 07 team... and either keep the other or fold it into an 08 team.
some noise the last few weeks, a few but hurt folks, some horse trading over the weekend.. and two others emerged interested in running the 08 team (from current pool of parents)
last night.. a long email from one mom (who btw, used to be parent coach/manager w her husband two years ago until they were told they coudln't anymore as they were assholes) claiming no transparency (because we have open meetings each month, minutes are (usually) published, agendas are known...and i'm on the friggin pitch for 3hrs each friday fielding questions and issues from parents/coaches... so she apparently took a polll and is upset that the team is breaking up (we're shuffling kids around to fit into 07 and 08 teams)and goddammit she wants answers.

i'll post her email here later. fecking idjiot.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by elflaco » Thu May 16, 2019 3:07 pm

the circle of life... we come back full circle...
US Soccer in an effort to do something or other, aligns with the rest of the world (and soccer academies) by declaring that effective august 2016, all youth teams should be formed based on birth year, not school grade... or something like that. regardless, NJ Youth Soccer puts it out to the various leagues.. and so it becomes policy or something.
forget the fact that many countries do the Feb-December school year and thus birth year is a great fit... but when school starts in aug/sept.. and birth year teams invariable go across grades... you end up with clubs in small towns (13k heartbeats, one of each elementary, middle and HS).. the results is that by 8th grade.. you are likely to end up with kids who followed the hallowed birth year edict in clubs that went along.. only to find that more than half of their team has gone on to 9th grade. oh no worry.. the leagues will run a u15 in the fall.. but if you ain't got the kids.. those are SOL.

so three years after it went into effect and we bought onto it (well honestly we did a half assed job of it, in full transparency as i was merely a young board member.. but i did vote to let the teams do whatever as long as we put it into effect over time).. only to realize fully what we have done... kids will miss out from travel soccer each year as long as we keep doing the birth year thing.

not the the alternative is appealing.. enough parents have qualms about their kids playing up.. little johnny wont' be challenged.. he'll be mauled by those mean big kids who by the way are likely to be in the same grade... and who says who plays up? the parent coaches who are more versed in the full count and split fingered fastball than understanding when to pplay 3-5-2 instead of 4-42? the trainer who ran the tryouts? who at best maybe saw 15 mins of each kid and magically decided they were the top of the age group?

so three years after i made a push to organize this club, to stop the bleeding to the pay to play clubs (no, not the big ones w academies and fields and full time staff but the ones happy to take your money to trian your kid at a rented facility and call it an academy), to put an operational framework that lasts a long time.. three years in.. the unerlying cutlure, which would take time to change regardless. the underlying culture is now bound to unravel the whole thing so we can go back to grade year teams.

what gets me is the personal attacks. i'm an unpaid volunteer, putting hundreds of hours a year in to this thing. but i'm personally responsible for not letting little johnny and tommy play in the same team because Caudio Fucking Reyna decided that all in the land should follow the academy path... in town we have three academy players in he u8-u17.. we have about 15 that play club and double card with us and another 5 that don't. but we have 300 kids playing travel.
so yeah... i get Syb's pain. i don't have that luckily, the kid was good enough to play edp and my schedule allows me to make sure i can drive the 30minute to training... but this side of it.. ain't no picnic either.

board meeting tonight.. to decided what to do about the above.
this work crisis is more palatable then those fucking meetings.

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Re: More Backroom Deals Than Tammany Hall - A Youth Soccer Tale

Post by tennbengal » Thu May 16, 2019 8:03 pm

Flaco - has us soccer stepped away from the birth year thing now? That was what kinda ruined it for quinn three years ago when his Club went ahead and split teams immediately - was never same after that.

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