World Cup 2018 Qualification

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:57 pm

Just one last thing... Arena and Gulati both out with quotes last night saying nothing is fundamentally wrong, no need to make any changes.

Fuck those guys.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:09 pm

Anything to the lack of a "fuck you" (but still capable) player like Jones or is that just dumb narrative searching?

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:13 pm

Canada played in Korea last year! Forgot about that one.

I think the US is going to the Copa America in Brazil in 2019, unless they back out. That tournament has kept it's expansion of 16 teams. One rumor out there is that the 6 invited teams will be USA, Mexico, Spain, Portugal, Japan and China. We'll see.

I think friendlies help keep the line of players active and allows the coach to experiment with different players, different formations AND different atmospheres. It's not just the game itself. It's flying, logistics, hotels, food, training grounds, weather.. everything. Teams bond on the road and sure out of 23 players that go to a road friendly, you may not see 15 of them again, but the few that get good, that experience is invaluable.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:29 pm

To be clear, your argument is the US needs more road friendlies like Canada does so they can increase their success?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:34 pm

mister d wrote:To be clear, your argument is the US needs more road friendlies like Canada does so they can increase their success?

In Degen's defense...Canada plays a LOT more meaningless games so he's got a lot of experience in the subject matter.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:34 pm

The next 20 months of friendlies really do need to be about reestablishing the culture and leadership and all that crap, and specifically putting that burden on the 17-22 year old group that is going to be the core in 2026. Obviously it will not be feasible to just throw a U-23 team out there for every game, but they need to be careful about which older players to invite back and when.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:36 pm

So obviously my choice for manager is Paul Azinger.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:47 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:and....the MLS is part of the problem. The league's growth and GMs have created a great opportunity for our CONCACAF foes to play high level. The minows are playing alongside our US Stars instead of for Joe Public, Saprissa, and such because they are a great value against the MLS salary cap but better than staying at home. Not sure how to solve that one.

Just something I came across that hits on this point

DC United wrote:D.C. United U-19 Academy midfielder Alexis Cerritos made his debut with the El Salvadoran National Team on Sunday, entering the match in the 89th minute in a 1-0 friendly win over Canada in Houston. The 17-year-old came in for Chicago Fire midfielder Arturo Alvarez and played sparingly, but reached a career milestone few players achieve at such a young age.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:52 pm

mister d wrote:To be clear, your argument is the US needs more road friendlies like Canada does so they can increase their success?

Everybody plays road friendlies. I was using Canada as an example that even a shitty team like them, tries to play away from home.
Why go to Austria when they could play a bunch of games in Toronto and Vancouver. Only exception might be your other neighbors Mexico who don't have any home or away friendlies. They just play all their games in the States.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:12 pm

my favorite thing i heard today

So if every other result still happened the same, Chile’s Appeal of their game against Bolivia, earned them two more points in the standings, but cost them a spot in the playoff.

Chile would have 2 fewer points, Peru would have three fewer points, but that would have placed Chile in the playoff spot.

The crazier thing is that Peru's goal was scored on an indirect free kick. It wouldn't have counted except Ospina touched it on the way by.

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:You don't fucking quit. You're a G-D American soccer player. You don't quit.

Nice rant. I agree with all your points, Don't get me started on the "softness" issue. I live in a college town in the middle of coal/steel country.

We haven't even talked about the problems in the under u12 development. Technical skills are completely lacking. Big, strong, and fast 8-10 year old kids get on the better teams with the better coaches.

I'm not sure where to get started, but I don't like where we are at and the direction we are heading.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:52 pm

This talk always makes me nervous because the part I agree with ("we're too soft, we've become too entitled") always seems to get conflated or combined with a knock on what was, until recently, continuing societal evolution over my lifetime ("we're too soft, we've become too empathetic towards others").

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:03 pm

And I hear that concern. I really do.

But I am on record here calling the "everyone gets medals" trope a pile of dogshit. So when I talk about the MNT, that just doesn't enter into my head.

I, obviously, can only speak for myself on this, but I'm very specifically talking about a team and culture I've watched very closely for almost 30 years.

(fucking old fart)

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm

This group seemed to be unusually hard to motivate. And they are clearly lacking in that 1-2 strategically placed assholes that you find everywhere else in CONCACAF and frankly in better teams as well. Once Jones and Beckerman got too old/bad to keep playing for them, nobody took over that role.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:55 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:And I hear that concern. I really do.

But I am on record here calling the "everyone gets medals" trope a pile of dogshit. So when I talk about the MNT, that just doesn't enter into my head.

I, obviously, can only speak for myself on this, but I'm very specifically talking about a team and culture I've watched very closely for almost 30 years.

(fucking old fart)

I think you nailed it in your FB rant. Throughout the 90s and early 2000s, the US was rarely the more talented team, at least individually talented players, but they always fought for every ball, and fought for each other as a team. They were always, without exception, the more fit team. How many games were the US outplayed, but held on until the final 5 minutes, and pulled out games when the opponents began to tire? I've noticed in recent years, we can't play for shit in humid conditions. I don't recall that ever being a problem in the past.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:34 am

I'm still not ready to move on.

http://www.espnfc.com/video/espn-fc-tv/86/video/3226999

If you don't have time or inclination to listen to the whole thing, ffwd to Shaka's comments around 3:30. Straight fire. The arrogance and hubris of US Soccer and Bruce Arena was disgusting down in Trinidad.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:07 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:I'm still not ready to move on.

http://www.espnfc.com/video/espn-fc-tv/86/video/3226999

If you don't have time or inclination to listen to the whole thing, ffwd to Shaka's comments around 3:30. Straight fire. The arrogance and hubris of US Soccer and Bruce Arena was disgusting down in Trinidad.

can listen to Shaka all day

Full podcast worth a listen
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRAm6XthRVc[/youtube]

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:29 am

I've had several comments from people trying to make soccer small talk because they know I'm interested in. Typically the conversation goes... "The men's team should just do what the women are doing" How do I explain that it's a completely different situation without sounding sexist? I usually respond with a simple "the rest of the world is catching up or already caught up and they may have the same problem as the men very soon".

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:31 am

Finally able to type a bit ---

I still can't believe this happened. At least, not like that. Arena is a joke.

That said, on the overall development issues of US talent and the "pay for play" club system, I think that the latter is getting a bit of a bad rap. It costs to have coaches, especially coaches that know what they are doing. That is, in some cases, literally their only job. They can't be expected to volunteer their time (some do, but it is not a reasonable expectation). That said, I think the development of US soccer players from U7 through U14 is generally fine. It is what happens from ages 15 to 21 that is the US problem. The most precocious of potential US talent when they hit those years probably need to be in Europe (like Pulisic was able to do). That most cannot go until 18 means they miss on 4 years of high level training at a particularly important time, and it puts them behind the rest of the world. You simply cannot get enough good quality training and competition here in the states at those ages, in my opinion, to keep them from falling a bit behind. And then, for those who choose to stay here and go to college, the collegiate system is a complete disaster for training 18-21 year olds. Not enough games and not enough training.

If you want to "fix" US development, you would want your best players at age 15 to be able to go to Europe and see if they can cut it. Until that happens, I believe we will remain a step behind as a country in terms of developing talent.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:56 am

tennbengal wrote:That said, on the overall development issues of US talent and the "pay for play" club system, I think that the latter is getting a bit of a bad rap. It costs to have coaches, especially coaches that know what they are doing. That is, in some cases, literally their only job. They can't be expected to volunteer their time (some do, but it is not a reasonable expectation).

I may have misread or something, but aren't they running at an unbelievable surplus right now? The money to pay coaches is there, but they're still having the player families do it direct.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 am

mister d wrote:
tennbengal wrote:That said, on the overall development issues of US talent and the "pay for play" club system, I think that the latter is getting a bit of a bad rap. It costs to have coaches, especially coaches that know what they are doing. That is, in some cases, literally their only job. They can't be expected to volunteer their time (some do, but it is not a reasonable expectation).

I may have misread or something, but aren't they running at an unbelievable surplus right now? The money to pay coaches is there, but they're still having the player families do it direct.

I can't speak to the finances - but even a 100 million dollar surplus, how would US soccer organize training for U7-U14 kids across the country? How would that even work? Would US soccer pay for a training center in West Baltimore and East Baltimore to try and reach the kids in those neighborhoods? Would they do that in every large US city? How large a city would it have to be in order to get this kind of program? Would it just be in urban areas? How many coaches would they have to hire? How would the instruction be standardized? I just don't know exactly how to change that part of it...

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:06 am

tennbengal wrote:If you want to "fix" US development, you would want your best players at age 15 to be able to go to Europe and see if they can cut it. Until that happens, I believe we will remain a step behind as a country in terms of developing talent.

What you are describing is almost the Argentina or Uruguay model. The MLS wants those players though. Would the MLS succeed as a business if it didn't have a single US national team member in it's league?

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:07 am

degenerasian wrote:
tennbengal wrote:If you want to "fix" US development, you would want your best players at age 15 to be able to go to Europe and see if they can cut it. Until that happens, I believe we will remain a step behind as a country in terms of developing talent.

The MLS wants those players though. Would the MLS succeed as a business if it didn't have a single US national team member in it's league?

There are oodles of players for MLS. The elite of the elite at U15 should be in Europe, to try and take the next step. Pulisic is not gonna play in MLS. That's fine. MLS can be what it is now, a league for non-elite US players. Problem is, the system as is currently set up practically guarantees that all US players will be non-elite. That part is not ok.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:11 am

tennbengal wrote:
degenerasian wrote:
tennbengal wrote:If you want to "fix" US development, you would want your best players at age 15 to be able to go to Europe and see if they can cut it. Until that happens, I believe we will remain a step behind as a country in terms of developing talent.

The MLS wants those players though. Would the MLS succeed as a business if it didn't have a single US national team member in it's league?

There are oodles of players for MLS. The elite of the elite at U15 should be in Europe, to try and take the next step. Pulisic is not gonna play in MLS. That's fine. MLS can be what it is now, a league for non-elite US players. Problem is, the system as is currently set up practically guarantees that all US players will be non-elite. That part is not ok.

Would the league survive? Do Us fans need to see US stars or are they past that?
As I edited above, Uruguay accepts this. A Luis Suarez is groomed to play abroad. He played a handful of games in the domestic league as an 18 year old just to get ready.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:17 am

I don't think US fans give a shit about seeing US national team players on MLS teams. I am not sure why you are hung up on that.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:44 am

I wanted that until I started watching PL and now if Pulisic came back I'd be furious. Maybe some of the roster filler from MLS as fan favorites but the top players should be somewhere where the foreign people live.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:55 am

testuser2 wrote:I've had several comments from people trying to make soccer small talk because they know I'm interested in. Typically the conversation goes... "The men's team should just do what the women are doing" How do I explain that it's a completely different situation without sounding sexist? I usually respond with a simple "the rest of the world is catching up or already caught up and they may have the same problem as the men very soon".

Really depends on who you are talking to and how much they really want to listen and absorb. US women's soccer benefited massively from Title IX, where an entire generation (probably at least 2 generations) were afforded opportunities to earn scholarships that simply didn't exist before Title IX. So, suburban parents woke up to the realization that soccer wasn't just a fun activity.. If you had a gifted athlete, soccer was now a viable path to lop off huge chunks of tuition. You had coaches out there now, searching for talent. This expansion and the incentives simply never would've happened without Title IX.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, soccer was thought of as primarily a man's sport. There was very little opportunity to even play the game, let alone a path to a viable career (or college scholarships). In many countries, they didn't even field a national team up until the 90s. The English FA had banned women from playing soccer up until somewhere in the 70s (I think, maybe 60s.) They didn't play the first women's world cup until 1991. Only 12 teams participated for at least the first 2 or 3 cycles.

So, Title IX was enacted in the early 70s. The first generation of US soccer women that were allowed to grow under it came of age in the 80s and 90s. To say we had a head start on most of the world is a massive understatement.

=-=-=-=-=

I was ranting about last week, on the men's side, they've been playing professionally in Europe and South America since at least the 1860s/70s. We didn't start truly pulling our shit together until the 1980s/90s. And we're still not fully up to speed.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:58 am

mister d wrote:I wanted that until I started watching PL and now if Pulisic came back I'd be furious. Maybe some of the roster filler from MLS as fan favorites but the top players should be somewhere where the foreign people live.

Correct. I was pissed when Bradley and Dempsey came back. In Bradley's case, his fall off as a good midfielder seemed to coincide with him leaving Italy...

Anyone buying a ticket to watch Wondo play?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:10 am

Some points in response to some posts:

* The US has a Development Academy system, which is now 10 years old. Every MLS team, a number of European clubs (AS Roma) and NASL and USL teams have them and they all play in one league. They just added the U12 division last year. The best ones are free, though this isn't across the board (and needs to change). The players are training 5 days a week and playing 25-30 games spread out over a 10 month season. These are professionally run and the incentive is to either develop the player to eventually play on the full side, or to sell them off for profit... Like every academy system in the world.

* Just to say it out loud - You can't just up and leave and go join a European academy. It is much harder than that, requiring a version of a youth work visa from that country's govt and approval from that country's FA. Pulisic had access to a Croatian passport. The kid that went to my high school and got picked up by Arsenal had a German passport.

We can talk about wanting our players to go abroad, but the reality is that they need to be truly exceptional because the barrier to entry is high. Euro clubs need to really want that player to invest the extra time/labor to get them to the academy. And in some countries, they require at least one parent to move. That's asking an awful lot.

=-=-=-=-==-==

* I have no real polling data, but my gut tells me US fans don't really give a shit who is on their MLS team... they just want them to win. Yeah, it's nice when you can cheer for Jordan Morris or a Nagbe or whatever, but I really don't think that has much of anything to do with rooting interests. I guess I could be wrong, and I don't hang out with "supporters" anymore. But just knowing the history of DCU pretty intimately... It was a sign of the strength of the club to have Pope and Harkes and Olsen.. But it was just as awesome to cheer on Moreno and Etcheverry and Raul Diaz Arce.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:17 am

It can be a disadvantage to have usmnt (or other nt) players since the MLS calendar doesn't line up with the international breaks. (The solution of course is to sign Giovinco's, Valeri's, etc. who are much better than other MLS players but not good enough for their respective NT's).

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:27 am

And just to add to the Development Academy and pay-to-play discussion:

There is a growing and probably intractable tension between MLS (and other professionally-owned academies) and non-MLS (solely youth soccer operations) that revolves around the whole poaching of players. Even if an MLS team has fees, they are typically MUCH lower than their non-MLS academy counterparts. You are also now entering a situation where turning your talents into a profession seem much closer to reality than if you are on a non-MLS academy.

The reality is probably somewhere closer to "it depends" in terms of future success. If you look at the current U17 and U20 rosters, almost all of them play on or played for an Academy team. But the breakdown of MLS and non-MLS is fairly even.

At any rate, there have been rumblings about MLS teams breaking off to form their own league. Right now it's just not logistically feasible. That move would also have to be approved by USSF and if you know the politics involved... That's a non-starter.

But, the main point I want to make is that while the Academy system is very young in the US, it DOES EXIST. Not talking about this thread, but just in general, a surprising number of people that talk about soccer in the US seem completely oblivious to this 10 year old league and the fact that all MLS teams have this, along with the Homegrown Talent program.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
* Just to say it out loud - You can't just up and leave and go join a European academy. It is much harder than that, requiring a version of a youth work visa from that country's govt and approval from that country's FA. Pulisic had access to a Croatian passport. The kid that went to my high school and got picked up by Arsenal had a German passport.

We can talk about wanting our players to go abroad, but the reality is that they need to be truly exceptional because the barrier to entry is high. Euro clubs need to really want that player to invest the extra time/labor to get them to the academy. And in some countries, they require at least one parent to move. That's asking an awful lot.

It depends what Euro league you're talking about. Does the American player want to play in Holland or Turkey or Ukraine? Or would they rather play in either a bigger league or MLS? Go big or go home. I'm reminded of Onyewu. A guy who at 20 went to Metz then loaned out everywhere then to Milan and eventually back in MLS. Altidore too. Are there enough of those guys?

The smaller leagues will take anyone. The Belgian League is an African factory.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:43 am

One last thing. Pulisic played for Michigan Rush for a year, and then played for PA Classics from around the age of 9 until he left at 16. Throughout that time, he got to train for weeks at a time with Barca and a handful of other Euro clubs.

But the idea that the PA Classic development academy had NOTHING to do with the player he is today (which I hear a lot of people saying, even if indirectly) is pretty silly. I'm not saying they produced the player we see today... But they sure as Hell didn't fuck him up (which is what a lot of anti-US soccer people seem to claim about ALL of youth soccer in this country.)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:45 am

degenerasian wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
* Just to say it out loud - You can't just up and leave and go join a European academy. It is much harder than that, requiring a version of a youth work visa from that country's govt and approval from that country's FA. Pulisic had access to a Croatian passport. The kid that went to my high school and got picked up by Arsenal had a German passport.

We can talk about wanting our players to go abroad, but the reality is that they need to be truly exceptional because the barrier to entry is high. Euro clubs need to really want that player to invest the extra time/labor to get them to the academy. And in some countries, they require at least one parent to move. That's asking an awful lot.

It depends what Euro league you're talking about. Does the American player want to play in Holland or Turkey or Ukraine? Or would they rather play in either a bigger league or MLS? Go big or go home. I'm reminded of Onyewu. A guy who at 20 went to Metz then loaned out everywhere then to Milan and eventually back in MLS. Altidore too. Are there enough of those guys?

The smaller leagues will take anyone. The Belgian League is an African factory.

We're not talking about the same issue. I'm talking very specifically about players at 13-17 choosing a Euro-based academy over a US one.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:47 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
degenerasian wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:
* Just to say it out loud - You can't just up and leave and go join a European academy. It is much harder than that, requiring a version of a youth work visa from that country's govt and approval from that country's FA. Pulisic had access to a Croatian passport. The kid that went to my high school and got picked up by Arsenal had a German passport.

We can talk about wanting our players to go abroad, but the reality is that they need to be truly exceptional because the barrier to entry is high. Euro clubs need to really want that player to invest the extra time/labor to get them to the academy. And in some countries, they require at least one parent to move. That's asking an awful lot.

It depends what Euro league you're talking about. Does the American player want to play in Holland or Turkey or Ukraine? Or would they rather play in either a bigger league or MLS? Go big or go home. I'm reminded of Onyewu. A guy who at 20 went to Metz then loaned out everywhere then to Milan and eventually back in MLS. Altidore too. Are there enough of those guys?

The smaller leagues will take anyone. The Belgian League is an African factory.

We're not talking about the same issue. I'm talking very specifically about players at 13-17 choosing a Euro-based academy over a US one.

gotcha, sorry.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:19 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Some points in response to some posts:

* The US has a Development Academy system, which is now 10 years old. Every MLS team, a number of European clubs (AS Roma) and NASL and USL teams have them and they all play in one league. They just added the U12 division last year. The best ones are free, though this isn't across the board (and needs to change). The players are training 5 days a week and playing 25-30 games spread out over a 10 month season. These are professionally run and the incentive is to either develop the player to eventually play on the full side, or to sell them off for profit... Like every academy system in the world.

* Just to say it out loud - You can't just up and leave and go join a European academy. It is much harder than that, requiring a version of a youth work visa from that country's govt and approval from that country's FA. Pulisic had access to a Croatian passport. The kid that went to my high school and got picked up by Arsenal had a German passport.

We can talk about wanting our players to go abroad, but the reality is that they need to be truly exceptional because the barrier to entry is high. Euro clubs need to really want that player to invest the extra time/labor to get them to the academy. And in some countries, they require at least one parent to move. That's asking an awful lot.

=-=-=-=-==-==

* I have no real polling data, but my gut tells me US fans don't really give a shit who is on their MLS team... they just want them to win. Yeah, it's nice when you can cheer for Jordan Morris or a Nagbe or whatever, but I really don't think that has much of anything to do with rooting interests. I guess I could be wrong, and I don't hang out with "supporters" anymore. But just knowing the history of DCU pretty intimately... It was a sign of the strength of the club to have Pope and Harkes and Olsen.. But it was just as awesome to cheer on Moreno and Etcheverry and Raul Diaz Arce.

Re: the bold, I know you can't. I thought I referenced that above in my post when I said Pulisic was lucky. In a perfect world, that would change, and any US talent at age 15 that actually warranted it could go, not just someone who got lucky with the second passport like Pulisic did.

The development academy system is theoretically great? I guess? If you have a kid who lives near one, but so much of this county, that isn't the case. So I don't think that answers the criticisms thrown at "pay to play" (which, above, I defended as working relatively well for the u7-U14 crowd). The criticisms over "pay to play" seem to be that it leaves kids behind whose parents can't pony up the time and money to do it - and I don't know the answer to that - other than USSF setting up leagues and coaches in impoverished urban areas - but, again - how many, what areas, only urban? etc...

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:19 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:One last thing. Pulisic played for Michigan Rush for a year, and then played for PA Classics from around the age of 9 until he left at 16. Throughout that time, he got to train for weeks at a time with Barca and a handful of other Euro clubs.

But the idea that the PA Classic development academy had NOTHING to do with the player he is today (which I hear a lot of people saying, even if indirectly) is pretty silly. I'm not saying they produced the player we see today... But they sure as Hell didn't fuck him up (which is what a lot of anti-US soccer people seem to claim about ALL of youth soccer in this country.)

Did you even read my post, or no? I can't even tell what you are responding to. I specifically said I thought the U7-U14 development in the US is actually working fine, that the issue and problems start at 15 -21. So, yes, I agree that Pulisic's early experiences here served him well. My point was, he was lucky to build on that at age 15/16 where other US prodigies have to wait, and that delay is a REAL problem. For the true US prodigies, having to wait until 18 puts them behind the rest of their peers. It just does. I don't think this country does very well at training the 15-18 year old potential international level players - certainly not like the training they could receive by being overseas during those crucial years. It is a real problem that it is only a rare happenstance like with Pulisic and the second passport that he was able to go. As good as he is, I don't believe he would be what he at current if had had to wait until he turned 18 to head to Germany...

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:29 pm

Oh and don't forget that Pulisic's dad was a professional soccer player (George Mason Hall of Famer and 296 goals over 9 year career with the NPSL Harrisburg Heat). The stories I have read all say the kid was just always at practice and messing with the ball. The teams that his dad played on and coached would have guys challenge him to try a new thing with the ball and Christian would come back the next week mastering it. That is dedication you get from a kid who will succeed.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:31 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote:Oh and don't forget that Pulisic's dad was a professional soccer player (George Mason Hall of Famer and 296 goals over 9 year career with the NPSL Harrisburg Heat). The stories I have read all say the kid was just always at practice and messing with the ball. The teams that his dad played on and coached would have guys challenge him to try a new thing with the ball and Christian would come back the next week mastering it. That is dedication you get from a kid who will succeed.

Yes. No doubt he is special. But I am sure there are other soccer rats in the US who do similar things, who literally can't go to Europe when they are 15 or 16 and have to wait. And the waiting I think is a real issue for the few players in this country who might be able to think about that level, is my point. And depending on where they are in the country, if they are on a potential Pulisic type level, good luck finding training partners and coaching good enough on these shores to challenge them and help them develop at 15, 16 and 17 years old like they would be overseas.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:14 pm

It is deeply unsurprising to me that another US prodigy able to work in Europe during his 15-17 years showed well for the US today in the U-17 world cup (Weah).