The Mass Shootings Thread

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The Sybian
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by The Sybian »

Johnnie wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:34 pm I do active shooter drills.

School children in America should not be doing active shooter drills.

This is making me tear up and I'm the one who's deployed.

Fuck, both my kids were talking non-chalantly about their lockdown drills today, and it shocked me. I knew they did lockdown drills, and I' glad they do, but it disturbed me hearing them talk about it so matter of factly. They were shocked we didn't do lockdown drills. In retrospect, we did fire drills, and while you knew there could be a fire, it was just what you did, so it wasn't a big deal. It's the same for them, practicing hiding from a gunman with a semiautomatic rifle roaming the halls of their school. My daughter was talking about how upset her teacher was, because she didn't get the bookcases in place and door locked before the police officer opened the door. Knowing they have police officers on site pretending to be gunmen for timing purposes disturbed me. My son then told about the lockdown drill where he was hiding in a closet, and the janitor got into the room because his teacher forgot to lock the door, and he was scared, thinking he was going to die, until he saw it was just the janitor. Fuck, man. If only we let God back into the schools, we wouldn't have these problems.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by sancarlos »

The Sybian wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:15 am Fuck, man. If only we let God back into the schools, we wouldn't have these problems.
You joke, but I saw that comment posted in a meme on FB today. Sheesh.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by The Sybian »

sancarlos wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:25 am
The Sybian wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:15 am Fuck, man. If only we let God back into the schools, we wouldn't have these problems.
You joke, but I saw that comment posted in a meme on FB today. Sheesh.
Oh yeah, that is a prime GOP talking point. I saw a Congressman say the solution to school shootings is to make kids watch Andy Griffith, let principals hit kids, and bring back prayer in schools.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by duff »

I don't remember if I have posted this yet or not, so if I repeat myself I am sorry.

A couple of months ago the school my wife teaches at and my youngest daughter attends had an unannounced intruder test. It wasn't an active shooter drill, just testing the schools to make sure that someone could not get past the security measures they have in place. The district has their own police department, but only 2 or 3 officers to cover 4 elementary schools (k-4), an intermediate school (5-6), junior high (7-8), and high school. So if there ever was an intruder or active shooter, the officers wouldn't be much help if they were at another school. And let's be honest, they wouldn't be that much help in an active shooter situation anyways.

So during this unannounced drill (not even the principal or vice-principal knew) this lady entered into the school saying she had a backpack for a known student. As the front office was filling out the paperwork she bolted out the second door to the hallway. As the front office was getting ready to call a lockdown one of the officers told her to wait. He said it was a drill and to give her a few minutes headstart.

At this time, my wife was walking her class to art. That means my daughter was headed to gym since she is the same grade but different class. My wife hears a co-worker asking this lady if she needed assistance which is protocol if someone is in the school and doesn't have a visitor's badge. At that time my wife approach also. She noticed the lady did not have a badge and was acting a bit skittish. She was holding a backpack out to the side of her. My wife starts to walk her back to the office but quickly checks in the window to the art room to see if any students might possibly be in harm's way. At that point, the intruder takes a break for the library doors which is on the opposite side of the hallway. My wife runs after her along with her co-worker that first asked the intruder if she needed assistance. The grab her by the arms and my wife yells down the hall the the head custodian to call for a lockdown. At that point it goes out over the speakers. Other teachers in the hallway are corralling students into other rooms and following procedures for this type of situation. My wife and the other teacher are pushing this women down the hallway. The only thought my wife has is that this lady has a bomb in her backpack and she needs to get her outside before she detonates it. As she passes the office she yells at the vice-principal (who is an awful cunt) to open the damn doors. At that point she sees two of the officers in the office. Once she gets the lady outside the officers come out and tell her that they will take it from there, and that it was all a drill. The office didn't know until he told them, and not all of them were in there at the time (VP and principal).

It was a huge clusterfuck. Since this wasn't approved by the school building or the teacher's union, the school district administration had a big sit down with everyone involved to make sure they knew that it wouldn't go down like that ever again. My wife had nightmares for a couple of days dealing with that shit. My daughter and her classmates were bawling their eyes out b/c they saw my wife dragging that lady down the hall.

So on top of the PTSD, the school didn't really even debrief after the fact. My wife talked with the officers for maybe 3 minutes, the assistant superintendent for 30 minutes or so. No actions on how to handle the after affects. Nothing on how to address the students. My wife was back teaching 5 minutes after escorting a possible bomber/gunman out of the building.

To say the least, this school year has been pretty rough on her.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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The collosal stupidity.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by rass »

If I'm reading that correctly the police officer new it was a drill, and even though the front office was about to handle the situation correctly and call for a lockdown he stopped them? Jeez.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by duff »

rass wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:58 am If I'm reading that correctly the police officer new it was a drill, and even though the front office was about to handle the situation correctly and call for a lockdown he stopped them? Jeez.
Yup. He wanted to see how the teachers would react.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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*ugh knew


Was it fun for him?
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by duff »

rass wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:08 am *ugh knew


Was it fun for him?
My wife did say that she saw him smiling and possibly laughing as she was dragging his soon to be sister-in-law out the front door. Of course that is what she observed while in a state of panic. It is hard to say what his true reactions were. He did talk with her a couple of days later, and did show remorse for putting her through the ordeal. That may have been required from the administration.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by BSF21 »

I'm sure this is a point that has been made and perhaps I've just missed reaction to it or it's been glossed over, but this thing about armed guards and arming teachers has to stop.

I know everyone wants to be gung ho about working together to stop things, only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy, etc, and all I see is "I bet if they knew teachers were carrying they'd think twice".

How many of you know a schoolteacher that signed up for that shit? Why does this never come up? Bunch of 25-40 year old women who went to school to educate children. How many of them are raising their hands going "yea, give me a 9mm, I'll shoot a kid". No one signed up for that shit. Not one. Why is it so nonchalantly thrown around that teachers in this country are just commandos in waiting? It makes me so angry.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by testuser2 »

BSF21 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:21 am How many of you know a schoolteacher that signed up for that shit?
I knew a few teachers that would have loved to carry a gun in schools. Most of them shouldn't even be teachers. The next logical step is for students to carry guns to protect themselves from the teachers.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Don't worry, the teachers will get better training.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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BSF21 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:21 am How many of you know a schoolteacher that signed up for that shit? Why does this never come up? Bunch of 25-40 year old women who went to school to educate children. How many of them are raising their hands going "yea, give me a 9mm, I'll shoot a kid". No one signed up for that shit. Not one. Why is it so nonchalantly thrown around that teachers in this country are just commandos in waiting? It makes me so angry.
So teachers who are having to dig into their own pockets to buy school supplies will be expected to buy their own firearms? What about training? Ammo?

And I have nothing but respect and admiration for my kid's teachers. They are doing important work....but there is no way in hell I want them carrying around loaded weapons at school. And I bet none of them want to do that either.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Avram »

This post says it all

and i lose it every time i see the cartoon at the bottom

http://www.pajiba.com/politics/armed-te ... chools.php
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Christ. It just fucking dawned on me that my sister is a teacher and I just asked her if she has active shooter drills.

And now I'm fighting tears. What the fuck, man.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:20 pm
BSF21 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:21 am How many of you know a schoolteacher that signed up for that shit? Why does this never come up? Bunch of 25-40 year old women who went to school to educate children. How many of them are raising their hands going "yea, give me a 9mm, I'll shoot a kid". No one signed up for that shit. Not one. Why is it so nonchalantly thrown around that teachers in this country are just commandos in waiting? It makes me so angry.
So teachers who are having to dig into their own pockets to buy school supplies will be expected to buy their own firearms? What about training? Ammo?
Just a few of the questions in this twitter thread, Dave...

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by HaulCitgo »

My kids have these drills fairly often. They know to barricade and hide. Have had maybe two or three lockdowns (that I know of) in six years. I'm all for the drills even though everyone is a little skittish afterwards. Feel like that stuff helps a lot when the non-active shooter unforseeable event occurs. The daughter in particular is pretty detached at this point. "That's so that less of us die."
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

I've asked the same thing about going to war.

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Noli Timere Messorem
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Ryan wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:31 amWine snob
SHEESH!
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DaveInSeattle »

If you value your sanity, avoid David Brooks' inane op-ed today in the NYTimes: Respect First, Then Gun Control

It pretty much boils down to 'Please don't upset Gun Owners during this difficult time for them'.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DaveInSeattle »

And now the right-wing trolls are going after the survivor kids, calling them "crisis actors" and that they are being fed lines by the "anti-gun" lobby.

Those are people that David Brooks says we have to wait to take the lead in the gun-control fight.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

You see Jack Kingston's spot on CNN? He made a disgusting tweet and tried to justify it.

The tweet:



The spot:



He's been responded to in many ways since the comments, but the questions I have to ask are when will CNN take his fucking paycheck away? Why is there an insistence that every minute of every "news channel" needs to be incendiary, batshit conspiracy takes at every turn? Why was this normalized? When did the Jerry Springer-ization of NEWS take precedence over actual news? It's horseshit. Kingston needs to be fired.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DaveInSeattle »

And here comes Convicted Felon and 'Christian' Dinesh D'Souza to join in on the fun:



note: He's talking about the shooting survivors reacting after the Florida Legislature voted not to open discussion about an assault rifle ban.

Just for fun though, the Legislature did later declare the pornography is a health risk.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DaveInSeattle »

Lets take a look at Trump during his "listening session" on gun control:
Image
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by degenerasian »

I watched most of it. I think I heard from maybe 3 people in that room who actually had intelligent, common sense ideas that would involve either a ban on assault rifles, or at least limiting the ability to obtain them.

The rest were people talking about putting armed military-trained personnel in all the schools for protection, or training and arming teachers. Trump suggested this as well at one point.

One dude stood up and used the usual GOP argument that if there had been an armed person protecting the school, the outcome wouldn't have been as bad. I just shake my head when I hear crap like that. It's awesome seeing all these students protest and keep the conversation in the spotlight like they are. But you just get the sense that it might be a lost cause at this point.

As most of you have said, when Sandy Hook changed nothing, nothing will change.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by brian »

I've actually got legitimate hope that there's a chance for meaningful action, but it's not going to happen until the Republicans are the minority party in Congress again. For the time being, hopefully these young activists will keep reminding voters of that.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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degenerasian wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:03 pm One dude stood up and used the usual GOP argument that if there had been an armed person protecting the school, the outcome wouldn't have been as bad. I just shake my head when I hear crap like that.
Shake your head, because there was an armed guard at the school. Never even saw the shooter.

And seriously, anyone who suggest arming teachers needs to be fitted for a clown suit and laughed out of the room. The very notion is beyond ridiculous.

And look at Trump's notecard from the event...



He needs to be reminded to show some empathy!

And as some on Twitter have noted, that's not his handwriting.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by P.D.X. »

Just read the transcript. He's a goddamn lunatic. Referred to it as "your problem" when addressing them.

And naturally:

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:10 pmAnd seriously, anyone who suggest arming teachers needs to be fitted for a clown suit and laughed out of the room. The very notion is beyond ridiculous.
On one hand, sure. But on the other ... think about the absolutely massive government contract(s) and revenue it would create for gun companies.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by degenerasian »

mister d wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:09 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:10 pmAnd seriously, anyone who suggest arming teachers needs to be fitted for a clown suit and laughed out of the room. The very notion is beyond ridiculous.
On one hand, sure. But on the other ... think about the absolutely massive government contract(s) and revenue it would create for gun companies.

Arming teachers with AR-15s or any gun is such a stupid idea. I used to give teachers a tough time about leaving their school keys lying around; if keys went missing, the entire building had to be re-keyed with a cost in the thousands. I can just see it now. Ms Smith, why did you leave your AR-15 lying around? I don’t care that you are helping a kid learn to read, you need to be holding on to your gun so a kid doesn’t touch it.
 
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by A_B »

degenerasian wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:15 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:09 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:10 pmAnd seriously, anyone who suggest arming teachers needs to be fitted for a clown suit and laughed out of the room. The very notion is beyond ridiculous.
On one hand, sure. But on the other ... think about the absolutely massive government contract(s) and revenue it would create for gun companies.

Arming teachers with AR-15s or any gun is such a stupid idea. I used to give teachers a tough time about leaving their school keys lying around; if keys went missing, the entire building had to be re-keyed with a cost in the thousands. I can just see it now. Ms Smith, why did you leave your AR-15 lying around? I don’t care that you are helping a kid learn to read, you need to be holding on to your gun so a kid doesn’t touch it.
 
I don’t think that would be the weapon of armament.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

It's exactly what the Broward Co. Sheriff says that school resource officers in that county will now carry.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by A_B »

govmentchedda wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:38 pm It's exactly what the Broward Co. Sheriff says that school resource officers in that county will now carry.
Well I retract in hat case. That’s absurd.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

Unbeliveably so.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by The Sybian »

govmentchedda wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:38 pm It's exactly what the Broward Co. Sheriff says that school resource officers in that county will now carry.
School resource officers are police personnel, not teachers. My town was debating hiring one so I read up on the definitions. It was a newly passed state legislation, so maybe it's different in Florida, but it had to be an officer with substantial experience on a police force and a list of specific training. The role is more of a counseling position, to identify troubled kids, provide support, and IMO, earn the kids trust so they rat on each other.

I still think it is stupid as fuck, because it isn't meant for aiming at one individual in a crowd, it's meant for rapidly hitting multiple targets. Why not just give them a sawed off shotguns? Throw a spray of bullets into a crowd, and you are much more likely to hit your intended target. Sure, you are going to hit everyone in the room, but that is a small price to pay for our freedom to legally shoot targets with a really fun gun, instead of guns that are somewhat less fun to shoot.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Square Rob »

Guys, drug laws clearly don't work because junkies will still want to get high, so we should just get rid of drug laws.

Guys, speed limits clearly don't work because everyone still speed, so we should just get rid of speed limits.

Guys, DUI laws clearly don't work because drunk drivers will just drive anyway so we should get rid of DUI laws.

Guys, bad guys who wanna kill people are just gonna do it anyway so it doesn't make sense to implement gun control.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by The Sybian »

Square Rob wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:02 pm Guys, drug laws clearly don't work because junkies will still want to get high, so we should just get rid of drug laws.

Guys, speed limits clearly don't work because everyone still speed, so we should just get rid of speed limits.

Guys, DUI laws clearly don't work because drunk drivers will just drive anyway so we should get rid of DUI laws.

Guys, bad guys who wanna kill people are just gonna do it anyway so it doesn't make sense to implement gun control.
Remember when they made seat belts mandatory? People freaked the fuck out that the government was robbing them of their freedom, but once it happened, is it really that big of a fucking deal? Compared to the number of lives saved, and the cost savings from all of the injuries and deaths avoided, putting on a seatbelt is a small cost. Same shit with gun regulations. Sure, you will have to register guns bought used or at a show, or have to wait a little bit longer or answer more questions to get a license, but so fucking what? That is a very small price to pay, even if it keeps guns out of the hands of only some of the would-be mass shooters.
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