The Mass Shootings Thread

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Damn.

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Naturally, this moron had takes:



I'm just happy she's a laughing stock and punching bag for everyone:

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by TT2.0 »

A_B wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:16 pm
TT2.0 wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:33 am
Moreta wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:59 am And now two kids are dead.

You don’t solve this by shooting a shooter first. You solve this by disarming shooters. You can also make a dent in the rate of completed suicides in this country.
I think there are flatout too many guns already made and out in the country for this to be realistic. If you stopped firearm production and sales today there are enough guns floating around to arm everyone heavily for the next five generations. It just strikes me as an idealistic fantasy. Im not proposing a solution. I dont think there is a solution. People are shitty and are going to continue to murder people and there isnt a lot we can do about it
I think you are an idiot. This isn’t a wash your hands of it situation. Do something or don’t. There are two sides. Pick one.
let me clarify something...i said it earlier. im not opposed to these measures. you want assault rifles bans, im good with that. ammo restrictions, any of it, gomahead. i agree the shit needs to stop, and im fine with trying any and everything. What im saying and apparently failed to convey is that I dont think these ideas will work. its just my opiniom, from living in Texas literally surrounded by guns, that the genie is out of the bottle. Im not proposing an alternate plan because I cant imagine what will work. Im not washing my hands, just sayimg I dont think any of this will fix anything and thats sad. Am I not allowed skepticism? Again Im not opposed to trying but there has to be more. Any measure at all will probably save lives. fantadtic, im all for it. If the government wants to buy back everygun I have at areasonable markwt value ill turn them in tomorrow. by all means save lives....but my overriding point is this shit will keep happening....not "lets not do anything because this shit will keep happening" but "I dont think this idea you have will accomplish what you are expressing that you are trying to accomplish. For the fiftieth time as a gun owner Im tired of it. Im tired of defending the culture....im tired of being lumped in as some retarded southern republican redneck because I live in Texas and carry a gun and think its really fucking fun to take a shotgun and shoot skeet....fucking take them all I no longer really give a shit. Im not going to whine about it. ..just stop calling me names everytime I express a thought
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Shirley »

I think TT has a reasonable point. It's something to discuss. I think everyone here understands that a change in laws today won't result in a change in outcomes tomorrow. It will take some time. Actually, I think the vast majority of folks calling for gun control understand that, but the language of protest doesn't usually allow for subtlety. So you have to say STOP NOW or call for action NOW, even understanding that the effect will take time.

As others have pointed out, while there are gazillions of guns out there already, there's a reason why gun sales are still strong. For most folks who want guns, the easiest way to get them is to go to Walmart or some place like that. Eliminate the easy route, and things get harder, prices go up, etc.

Moreta says folks turn in guns all the time. I'm sure others fall into disrepair. If we added a buyback program, that would reduce numbers as well.

There's no way to snap our fingers and eliminate guns in the US. And that's OK. The trick is understanding that "solving" the problem in this case doesn't mean 100% elimination. Any reduction in gun violence is a good thing.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by A_B »

People are shitty and there’s nothing we can do is not a good point. That’s the whole point of the stupid guns don’t kill people people kill people sloganeering. TT may be more reasonable than most but he’s said the above AND said he isn’t turning in guns without a realistic buyback. You can’t have it all three ways.

And then he turned into a fucking snowflake. It’s mind blowing to be honest based on the safe spaces stuff he said. I’ve been called out for opinions people don’t agree with. It happens it’s a discussion. His point is idiotic.

If you’re tired of defending the culture either make your peace and stop defending it or get out of the culture so you don’t have to feel like you need to defend it.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.

I originally bought my first gun because of an event in my life that had me caught out there. A woman frantically ran into my home panicked saying "there's a man with a gun and he's going to kill me." (The reason she was able to run in was because my buddy - the owner - left to run an errand and didn't lock it because the neighborhood was that safe. He never locked it. Force of habit.)

Up until then I didn't care much for guns. They were tools of war and tools required for police for protection. I changed my mind after that though and decided to get one. This was in Louisiana, so it was easy. I always had it, but never used it. Never went to the range or did my due diligence in actually being a decent gun owner, honestly. I just "had one." Then I moved to Arizona some time later. It was there I got into shooting as a hobby. Not for competitions or anything. I just liked going to the range and shooting targets. My friends liked doing the same and everyone seemed knowledgeable about them.

In my immediate bubble there was no negative connotation with shooting firearms. We're mostly military dudes who've been through some training and we understand the respect that you have to show a weapon. But...when you go to a gun show in Arizona, sweet Jesus. What a damn gagglefuck. There are certainly gross humans hellbent on "big gub'ment takin' our guns." What I found as an enjoyable hobby is wrought with crazies.

But I'm not giving up my guns. I want the regulations tightened to the point that those people give up theirs. Maybe that's selfish and maybe that's hypocritical, but here's the thing. The military doesn't provide me enough training monthly to justify me losing mine.

You know what I have to do to qualify? For the M9 (Beretta M92) it's shoot at a paper silhouette that has two circles drawn on it. One for the face, one for the stomach. Hit the paper something like 28 times out of 45 (on top of the 45 you've already shot for practice) from various distances. If you get enough in the circles and enough on the paper, you're a marksman. All shots are from the standing position, IIRC.

For the M4 (short barrel AR-15) it's more convoluted. There are 4 positions. The silhouettes you're shooting at are smaller on the paper to simulate distance. You have to use a red dot and iron sites. You have to wear a gas mask. You end up shooting like 160 rounds total. That's to site the rifle and qualify. With enough in each silhouette plus enough on the paper computed a certain way, you get marksman.

And that's it! For the year if you're in a certain arming group. Or two years in another. (Hell, security forces who carry both weapons daily do it every 6 months.) Pending any additional deployment requirements, that's literally all you need, according to the Air Force.

That's not enough fucking training. So, on my own dime at least twice a month, I would go to the range. It's a perishable skill. And wouldn't ya know it, here I am in Afghanistan carrying my M9 everyday.

So, I'm not saying this to "defend the culture." I hate the culture and I agree with the protests. The NRA is scum that profits off of dead Americans under broken logic. I'm just giving perspective. If the Air Force provided me weekly range time, I probably wouldn't own guns and ammo. But since they don't and I do, I'm not giving them up at all.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:21 pm Damn.

I was in the other room working while my wife had this on TV. Holy shit it got dusty in here.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:21 pm Damn.

This girl is unbelievable.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by degenerasian »

The GOP and NRA keep pushing this ridiculous narrative that these kids are trying to take their precious guns away, which isn't the case at all. While a total ban would obviously be ideal, it's also not realistic, and the kids know that. They've made it perfectly clear that they're talking specifically about military-style guns (AR-15s), and that they're simply asking for more serious, comprehensive, and common sense legislation in regards to these weapons.

And yet slimy dirtbags like Santorum and Rubio keep pushing this bullshit that their 2nd amendment rights are being threatened, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by TT2.0 »

A_B wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:47 am People are shitty and there’s nothing we can do is not a good point. That’s the whole point of the stupid guns don’t kill people people kill people sloganeering. TT may be more reasonable than most but he’s said the above AND said he isn’t turning in guns without a realistic buyback. You can’t have it all three ways.

And then he turned into a fucking snowflake. It’s mind blowing to be honest based on the safe spaces stuff he said. I’ve been called out for opinions people don’t agree with. It happens it’s a discussion. His point is idiotic.

If you’re tired of defending the culture either make your peace and stop defending it or get out of the culture so you don’t have to feel like you need to defend it.
i cant make where i stand any clearer so im done trying to explain myself to you. Fuck you and your stereotypes and insults directed at my intelligence. Im not a fucking snowflake you prick
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Post by rass »

If I'm still holding what TT said immediately after Sandy Hook against him is it worth going back and reading what he wrote in this thread?
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:21 pm Damn.

Leadership. Powerful. Inspirational. Frankly, this is how you get people to run through walls for you.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Shirley »

EnochRoot wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:06 am
Johnnie wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:21 pm Damn.

Leadership. Powerful. Inspirational. Frankly, this is how you get people to run through walls for you.
Yeah, that was incredible, and uncomfortable, and just really, really ballsy. How many kids would have the spine to stand there like that, silent in front of a huge crowd that didn't know what you were doing, expecting you to do something and getting antsy? I can't even imagine that kind of poise.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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bfj wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:04 am Image
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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degenerasian wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:53 pm The GOP and NRA keep pushing this ridiculous narrative that these kids are trying to take their precious guns away, which isn't the case at all. While a total ban would obviously be ideal, it's also not realistic, and the kids know that. They've made it perfectly clear that they're talking specifically about military-style guns (AR-15s), and that they're simply asking for more serious, comprehensive, and common sense legislation in regards to these weapons.

And yet slimy dirtbags like Santorum and Rubio keep pushing this bullshit that their 2nd amendment rights are being threatened, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
This "all or nothing" approach would be doomed to failure. There are thousands of gun owners, particularly in rural areas, who love their hunting rifles, but could be persuaded to support a ban on automatic and semi-automatic "assault-type" weapons. That would be a first step with a good chance of success. Then, the second step (which would be harder), would be a ban on new sales of handguns. But, the only way of success and widespread support, imho, is to take hunting rifles out of your proposed ban.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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sancarlos wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:41 amThis "all or nothing" approach would be doomed to failure. There are thousands of gun owners, particularly in rural areas, who love their hunting rifles, but could be persuaded to support a ban on automatic and semi-automatic "assault-type" weapons. That would be a first step with a good chance of success. Then, the second step (which would be harder), would be a ban on new sales of handguns. But, the only way of success and widespread support, imho, is to take hunting rifles out of your proposed ban.
I agree with this. Hunting is a big part of the culture in a lot of places. Plus, are hunting rifles really a big part of the gun violence problem?
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
It really is a huge societal price to pay just because people are so attached to their toys.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:42 am
sancarlos wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:41 amThis "all or nothing" approach would be doomed to failure. There are thousands of gun owners, particularly in rural areas, who love their hunting rifles, but could be persuaded to support a ban on automatic and semi-automatic "assault-type" weapons. That would be a first step with a good chance of success. Then, the second step (which would be harder), would be a ban on new sales of handguns. But, the only way of success and widespread support, imho, is to take hunting rifles out of your proposed ban.
I agree with this. Hunting is a big part of the culture in a lot of places. Plus, are hunting rifles really a big part of the gun violence problem?
I completely agree with this as a process, but that's only beacause gun owners are the problem. We wouldn't need to do it in stages if they gave them up easier. To me that means they are part of the problem.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
There is a huge discussion here in Calgary about pitbulls. If a pitbull bites somebody (especially a child) there is outrage that pitbulls should be banned.
Same arguments are made such as 'is there any reason to own a pitbull other than to injure or kill?' Then the dog people some out and argue the other side.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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Problem is if you say you're going to do it in stages you're giving some credence to their argument that any firearm ban will ultimately result in all guns being banned, which isn't even close to the truth.

I think the right move is the message these Parkland kids and the other youth leaders have espoused. Ban assault weapons (or however you want to characterize military-style rifles), fund the federal government to be able to research gun violence again, get rid of the gun show background check loophole and raise the age to purchase weapons to age 21.

Then let's see what happens. Gun deaths will still happen of course, but if you getting rid of the tools and weapons that make massacres like Las Vegas, Orlando, Parkland et al easier to accomplish you're saving hundreds of lives right there alone.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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degenerasian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:51 am
testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
There is a huge discussion here in Calgary about pitbulls. If a pitbull bites somebody (especially a child) there is outrage that pitbulls should be banned.
Same arguments are made such as 'is there any reason to own a pitbull other than to injure or kill?' Then the dog people some out and argue the other side.

There are many reasons to own a dog and I have yet to see one that's a killing machine. Not so with guns. This is just a typical way to distract from the actual argument that guns are 100% lethal and designed to kill/injure.
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I think it's important to acknowledge there are legitimate reasons to own most guns. Hunting rifles if you're a hunter, obviously. Certain rifles for target or trap shooting, etc. Even handguns, as problematic as they are to the overall picture for gun violence in the US are a legitimate method of home defense and can also be used for target shooting.

Once you start defending military rifles is where you lose me.

ETA: And in case it needs to be said, certain people should be permanently banned from gun ownership regardless of those reasons -- those who have committed spousal abuse, any kind of violent crime, the mentally ill, etc. If you want to get really angry, consider that someone who has been arrested numerous times for beating his wife can walk into any gun store in Nevada and legally purchase any kind of gun whereas I by virtue of being on the medical marijuana registry cannot.
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brian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:02 am... whereas I by virtue of being on the medical marijuana registry cannot.
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testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
I can't say I agree with you as far as all gun owners being the problem and that if every one of them doesn't want to give it up in a buyback program that they're enabling gun violence.

I've gone back and forth on buying a handgun for a long time for a couple reasons. I like to target shoot. I am afraid that at some point there will be a change in which I may not be allowed to purchase one, and I do live in an area that has pockets around it prone to crime. I'm out of town a fair bit and my fiance is here alone sometimes. It certainly is a nice safety blanket that I don't want to ever imagine using to protect myself or my family. That said, I don't want to purchase one because I don't want to support gun manufacturers with one penny of my money. I don't believe in how they market, I don't believe in the 2A message, etc.

I do own a shotgun which I use for trap shooting. It's a fun hobby. I can sit here and say "I'm not the problem", but I'm also someone who would be absolutely fine with locking my gun up at a range and only using it while I'm there. It serve as much purpose as a tennis racke to me.

The nuance is what matters,so I'll agree with Johnnie to a point. That said, I'm all for whatever we can do to make it safer. It's entirely too easy to purchase a firearm. I'd be fine with a LONG waiting period, registration for every gun you own, tracking every purchase of any gun related item including ammunition. But with that said, I feel the same way about my shotgun as I do about my golf clubs. I don't want people saying I can't have them because it's a hobby of mine, but I understand why people feel threatened.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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degenerasian wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:53 pm The GOP and NRA keep pushing this ridiculous narrative that these kids are trying to take their precious guns away, which isn't the case at all. While a total ban would obviously be ideal, it's also not realistic, and the kids know that. They've made it perfectly clear that they're talking specifically about military-style guns (AR-15s), and that they're simply asking for more serious, comprehensive, and common sense legislation in regards to these weapons.

And yet slimy dirtbags like Santorum and Rubio keep pushing this bullshit that their 2nd amendment rights are being threatened, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
You are learning, Degen. The GOP arguments on most topics are bullshit. They lie about what the Dems believe, and twist it to stoke fears and emotions in their base. Protecting gay rights is an attack on Christianity! They won't stop until every Church in America is shuttered. (And, it's illegal to celebrate Christmas in America). Tax cuts for the rich will trickle down and make everyone wealthy! Dems hate business owners and want to keep everyone poor, otherwise they will lose their voters' support. Dems want healthcare for every American because they are jealous of rich people, and want to take away rich people's advantages. Social safety nets are nothing but lazy brown and black people living high on the hog off of your hard earned money!

I could go on forever. Watch a little bit of FoxNews, or read Breitbart, and almost everything is a strawman of a ludicrous idea "all Liberals believe," and they believe it because they hate/want to destroy America.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by degenerasian »

The Sybian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:52 pm
degenerasian wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:53 pm The GOP and NRA keep pushing this ridiculous narrative that these kids are trying to take their precious guns away, which isn't the case at all. While a total ban would obviously be ideal, it's also not realistic, and the kids know that. They've made it perfectly clear that they're talking specifically about military-style guns (AR-15s), and that they're simply asking for more serious, comprehensive, and common sense legislation in regards to these weapons.

And yet slimy dirtbags like Santorum and Rubio keep pushing this bullshit that their 2nd amendment rights are being threatened, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
You are learning, Degen. The GOP arguments on most topics are bullshit. They lie about what the Dems believe, and twist it to stoke fears and emotions in their base. Protecting gay rights is an attack on Christianity! They won't stop until every Church in America is shuttered. (And, it's illegal to celebrate Christmas in America). Tax cuts for the rich will trickle down and make everyone wealthy! Dems hate business owners and want to keep everyone poor, otherwise they will lose their voters' support. Dems want healthcare for every American because they are jealous of rich people, and want to take away rich people's advantages. Social safety nets are nothing but lazy brown and black people living high on the hog off of your hard earned money!

I could go on forever. Watch a little bit of FoxNews, or read Breitbart, and almost everything is a strawman of a ludicrous idea "all Liberals believe," and they believe it because they hate/want to destroy America.
I've known that. I've described the 4 pillars (religion, taxes, immigration and guns) many times. But it's gone further than I ever imagined.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DSafetyGuy »

brian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:54 am Problem is if you say you're going to do it in stages you're giving some credence to their argument that any firearm ban will ultimately result in all guns being banned, which isn't even close to the truth.

I think the right move is the message these Parkland kids and the other youth leaders have espoused. Ban assault weapons (or however you want to characterize military-style rifles), fund the federal government to be able to research gun violence again, get rid of the gun show background check loophole and raise the age to purchase weapons to age 21.

Then let's see what happens. Gun deaths will still happen of course, but if you getting rid of the tools and weapons that make massacres like Las Vegas, Orlando, Parkland et al easier to accomplish you're saving hundreds of lives right there alone.
I would also be good with requiring all purchases to be made from registered government dealers (getting rid of all private sales) with all firearms being registered with the government (existing vendors get their inventory bought out at market value, no additional orders from gun manufacturers can be made within six months of the government dealers opening up shop so vendors can't just stock up in the waning weeks and turn an automatic profit at taxpayer expense). Some of the other things listed, such as no sale to people who have been convicted of a violent crime (I'm also fine with suspending the right to purchase if someone has been charged with a violent crime with the right being reinstated if charges are cleared), long waiting period, etc. are all positives in my opinion, as well.

After all guns are registered, the owner is responsible for any crime committed with the weapon. None of the "my gun was stolen, but I didn't report it because they would never find it" crap because it's already registered in your name with the government, so you're responsible for it. Potential of theft and subsequent penalties would lead to more guns and ammunition being locked up except when in actual use (hunting, target shooting, whatever).
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DSafetyGuy »

BSF21 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:26 amI've gone back and forth on buying a handgun for a long time for a couple reasons. I like to target shoot. I am afraid that at some point there will be a change in which I may not be allowed to purchase one, and I do live in an area that has pockets around it prone to crime. I'm out of town a fair bit and my fiance is here alone sometimes. It certainly is a nice safety blanket that I don't want to ever imagine using to protect myself or my family. That said, I don't want to purchase one because I don't want to support gun manufacturers with one penny of my money. I don't believe in how they market, I don't believe in the 2A message, etc.
Does your fiance want to have a gun in your home for her safety?
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by HaulCitgo »

The criminal liability part is kinda nuts. You could easily not know a gun has been stolen.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

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An honest question - is crime really that bad that so, so many people feel the need to keep guns in the house? Wouldn't a home alarm system scare burglars away? Or is this a fear of physical assault?
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by DaveInSeattle »

Pruitt wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:29 pm Wouldn't a home alarm system scare burglars away?
Or a dog?
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by sancarlos »

Pruitt wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:29 pm An honest question - is crime really that bad that so, so many people feel the need to keep guns in the house? Wouldn't a home alarm system scare burglars away? Or is this a fear of physical assault?
I think it makes guys feel tough. My parents never owned guns. I've never owned guns. Until recently, my brother had never purchased a gun. He is an attorney and lives in a nice suburb of Denver. But, when I got together with him at my folks' home for Christmas, he excitedly showed me a photograph of the new Glock he had just purchased, "for home security". Fuckin' A.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by The Sybian »

degenerasian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:12 pm
The Sybian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:52 pm
degenerasian wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:53 pm The GOP and NRA keep pushing this ridiculous narrative that these kids are trying to take their precious guns away, which isn't the case at all. While a total ban would obviously be ideal, it's also not realistic, and the kids know that. They've made it perfectly clear that they're talking specifically about military-style guns (AR-15s), and that they're simply asking for more serious, comprehensive, and common sense legislation in regards to these weapons.

And yet slimy dirtbags like Santorum and Rubio keep pushing this bullshit that their 2nd amendment rights are being threatened, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
You are learning, Degen. The GOP arguments on most topics are bullshit. They lie about what the Dems believe, and twist it to stoke fears and emotions in their base. Protecting gay rights is an attack on Christianity! They won't stop until every Church in America is shuttered. (And, it's illegal to celebrate Christmas in America). Tax cuts for the rich will trickle down and make everyone wealthy! Dems hate business owners and want to keep everyone poor, otherwise they will lose their voters' support. Dems want healthcare for every American because they are jealous of rich people, and want to take away rich people's advantages. Social safety nets are nothing but lazy brown and black people living high on the hog off of your hard earned money!

I could go on forever. Watch a little bit of FoxNews, or read Breitbart, and almost everything is a strawman of a ludicrous idea "all Liberals believe," and they believe it because they hate/want to destroy America.
I've known that. I've described the 4 pillars (religion, taxes, immigration and guns) many times. But it's gone further than I ever imagined.
My point was that you have frequently given credence to the made up bullshit reasoning from the far right.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Shirley »

Pruitt wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:29 pm An honest question - is crime really that bad that so, so many people feel the need to keep guns in the house? Wouldn't a home alarm system scare burglars away? Or is this a fear of physical assault?
In most cases, a gun is a lot cheaper. And, of course, makes you feel like a badass, which an alarm system does not.

The only scenario I've thought about buying a gun for is if my wife got her wish and we moved way the fuck out on a house with like 10+ acres. If you're in a big house that far out, an alarm system isn't going to do you any good if someone wants to come in. In that case, I'd consider getting a pump-action shotgun. That makes a nice, distinctive sound that might scare intruders off, you don't have to do too much aiming, and it's not going to go through several walls if you take a shot and miss.

That said, I haven't fired a gun since I shot a .22 at scout camp about 100 years ago.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

testuser2 wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:29 am
Johnnie wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm I don't think it's particularly fair to lump all gun owners into one category, say "change your culture," and step back from it. There's definite nuance.
I'm done with going halfway and trying to appease someone that just wants to own a device that's only purpose is to injure or kill. All gun owners are the problem. It's because you do not want to give up your guns that allows everyone to be able to buy guns. Until more gun owners start realizing that they are supporting the violence it will not change.

I really don't see the point of owning a gun. Other than hunting why do you want one? Do you need it to protect you from other gun owners? Do you like target shooting? Get a bow. Crossbows are alot of fun or go play laser tag.
You take the first sentence of my post that deliberately references nuance and quote it.

I then write about my nuance -- the story of a woman hearing for her life running into my home and the fact that I deploy to warzones and don't get enough training -- and you say all gun owners are the problem.

And you end your post with exasperated whys of my ownership?

What the fuck, man.
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Re: The Mass Shootings Thread

Post by Johnnie »

I agree with everything stated by Brian and DSafe upthread. Everything. Tighter restrictions. Longer waiting periods, everything. Make it as cumbersome as possible to attain a firearm.

I'll even go further. Mandatory fucking training. You own a gun? Prove you can use it.

That's the most tragically overlooked part of everything. You can never have enough training and it's a perishable skill.
HaulCitgo wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:24 pm The criminal liability part is kinda nuts. You could easily not know a gun has been stolen.
Actually, it's a thing. If you don't know where your guns are at all times and don't have a log of serial numbers to immediately give to law enforcement once you realize one has been stolen, you're a piece of shit gun owner.
DaveInSeattle wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:49 pm
Pruitt wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:29 pm Wouldn't a home alarm system scare burglars away?
Or a dog?
Depends upon the potential for break-ins in your area. Meth doesn't pay for itself.

Also, I don't have to feed, walk, or have a permanent anchor with a shotgun.

And next to my bed I keep a high power flashlight to supplement my firearms.
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