The Swamp

This guy is such a fucking cunt.

But just think about how things might be worse if we didn't let him hold the entire party hostage on every single fucking issue.

In a 50-50 Senate, it's worth him being a Democrat in name only even if he literally voted against every single bill if for nothing else in a 51-49 GOP Senate it would be impossible to even get a bill to the floor. At least in a 50-50 Senate, the Dems can bring bills for a vote and try to swing a couple of Republicans (as unlikely as that usually is).

Not gonna defend him because he's an asshole, but anyone pretending someone more liberal can win in WV is on drugs. It was a minor miracle Manchin was even re-elected in 2016 and he's absolutely gonna be voted out of office in 2022 if the GQP nominates anyone other than a child molestor (and maybe not even then). Hopefully the Dems can pickup Johnson's seat in Wisconsin and a couple others to maybe get a 52-48 edge and get rid of the filibuster in 2022. But I think the GOP is gonna take back the House and score some upsets in the Senate (like in NV with Cortez Masto) to take back control.

The US is fucked.

ETA: Just realized he's up in 2024, which is moderately good news if the Dems can somehow marshal a good performance in the midterms and the filibuster can be brushed aside without him, though I wouldn't bet on that especially if the inevitable economic downturn hits here in the next 12 months.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:55 am

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:27 am Do *most* of them even come out alive? I have the perception that they don't but I don't really know.

I don't even know, maybe I just focus on the ones who do?

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:27 amThere certainly is value in shaking them down for motive, planning, background, etc that you can't get if they're not alive. Also, I'm sure victims' families would rather see justice carried out. (Again just speculating)

See, I'm the total opposite. If anything ever did happen, I'd want the closure of knowing they're dead. The public deification of that Kyle motherfucker or even just me imagining them enjoying their fame while being protected by other white supremacists in prison would drive me insane.

My perception is that most of these mass shooters are mentally ill and motivated by delusions or paranoid psychosis and are beyond the thoughts of their legacy or infamy. Some do it thinking they will get glory or are serving some greater good or doing God's work or going to impress Jodi Foster, but I think most are just ill. If I had to guess, I'd say about half of these guys die in the act, and I think a lot go in with the idea of suicide by police.

brian wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:08 pmIn a 50-50 Senate, it's worth him being a Democrat in name only even if he literally voted against every single bill if for nothing else in a 51-49 GOP Senate it would be impossible to even get a bill to the floor. At least in a 50-50 Senate, the Dems can bring bills for a vote and try to swing a couple of Republicans (as unlikely as that usually is).

I guess that's the question right? How often has Manchin given us 50-50 versus how often do we pre-cave to him or lose with him on the other side. If he's steering the entire ship, he does more harm than good even if you can find a real win in there.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:52 pm

brian wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:08 pmIn a 50-50 Senate, it's worth him being a Democrat in name only even if he literally voted against every single bill if for nothing else in a 51-49 GOP Senate it would be impossible to even get a bill to the floor. At least in a 50-50 Senate, the Dems can bring bills for a vote and try to swing a couple of Republicans (as unlikely as that usually is).

I guess that's the question right? How often has Manchin given us 50-50 versus how often do we pre-cave to him or lose with him on the other side. If he's steering the entire ship, he does more harm than good even if you can find a real win in there.

I think the bigger issue (and Brian's point) is without Manchin, McConnell and not Schumer decides what Bills get to the Senate, which appointees get nomination hearings, which Judges get hearings... If Manchin flips, Biden doesn't get a Judicial Nominee through.

I'm old enough to remember when Manchin cast the deciding vote on a bill that Bernie Sanders described as "the most significant legislation for working people that has been passed in decades."

Like hell he did. It was 50-49 and Harris obviously breaks that tie if needed. We need to stop framing this as "Manchin helped the Dems" when he stays with the party versus "Manchin fucked everyone again" when he either blocks legislation or personally waters it down.

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:42 pm Like hell he did. It was 50-49 and Harris obviously breaks that tie if needed. We need to stop framing this as "Manchin helped the Dems" when he stays with the party versus "Manchin fucked everyone again" when he either blocks legislation or personally waters it down.

Wait. What?

The American Rescue Plan passed 50-49 with Manchin's vote. If Manchin had voted against it, the bill would've been defeated 50-49. There's no tie for Harris to break.

If Manchin had abstained, then Dan Sullivan, the R Senator from Alaska, would've stuck around for the final vote and voted against it. In which case the bill would've been defeated 50-49.

Either way, if Manchin (or Sinema or Feinstein or any other Dem) doesn't vote for something, and the Rs stand firm against it, then it will be defeated and there won't be a tie to break.

There’s this giant disconnect between what we know about mental health and why young men drop a few hundred dollars on an AR-15 to play the leading role in their very own disaster porno.

The shit manifests in childhood, right? There's probably a link of abuse from a young age due to either bullying or garbage parenting. It creates a young, hateful person. Then once this type of person starts getting rejected by women, it's over. This downward spiral doesn't stop. And since America has easy access to guns, he takes it out on everyone else.

That's a broad generalization. Not all dudes become psycho murderers. Some become cops or military members or lawyers or whatever else.

I'm skeptical we'll ever find any reliable link to anything. These random AR-15 mass-casualty shootings are too rare for any kind of certainty.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Is that even a crime in Georgia?

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:00 pm The shit manifests in childhood, right? There's probably a link of abuse from a young age due to either bullying or garbage parenting. It creates a young, hateful person. Then once this type of person starts getting rejected by women, it's over. This downward spiral doesn't stop. And since America has easy access to guns, he takes it out on everyone else.

That's a broad generalization. Not all dudes become psycho murderers. Some become cops or military members or lawyers or whatever else.

Depends on the causality. Most mental illness like schizophrenia hit in the early 20s. With schizophrenia, there is a genetic predisposition and it usual requires some sort of triggering event, but the signs of the illness are rarely present before 20. Personality disorders like psychopathy sociopathy are present from birth, as it is the absence of mental processes. There are just too many possible causes to generalize.

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:44 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Is that even a crime in Georgia?

Unsure. Stone Mountain was the first place I ever saw someone open carry in public.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:53 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:00 pm The shit manifests in childhood, right? There's probably a link of abuse from a young age due to either bullying or garbage parenting. It creates a young, hateful person. Then once this type of person starts getting rejected by women, it's over. This downward spiral doesn't stop. And since America has easy access to guns, he takes it out on everyone else.

That's a broad generalization. Not all dudes become psycho murderers. Some become cops or military members or lawyers or whatever else.

Depends on the causality. Most mental illness like schizophrenia hit in the early 20s. With schizophrenia, there is a genetic predisposition and it usual requires some sort of triggering event, but the signs of the illness are rarely present before 20. Personality disorders like psychopathy sociopathy are present from birth, as it is the absence of mental processes. There are just too many possible causes to generalize.

I guess not knowing exactly what causes people to go batshit means that you can only control what you can.

Which is to limit gun ownership. As a gun owner, I want this to happen. I'm having to unfollow gun pages on Instagram because they are spinning the hits again.

ObAmA BiDeN iS gOiNg To TaKe OuR gUnS!1!1!!

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:44 pm

sancarlos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Is that even a crime in Georgia?

Carrying the guns is not a crime. Carrying them into Publix is a violation of store policy, so I’m guessing they can have him arrested for disturbing the peace.

Dp

That is a horrible bathroom. Exactly the kind of place one would go to load weapons. CNN atrium is also a horrible bathroom. Also a likely place to load weapons.

And now we are a 2nd amendment fringe group message board.

Well, you don't need to worry about the NRA making a big cause out of this one.

Good to see he was associate of the week.

Rex wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:47 amWell, you don't need to worry about the NRA making a big cause out of this one.

Just like every time you read about a cop being fired immediately over some abuse of power, you can be sure the accompanying picture won't be a white dude.

They took a guy into custody at UK hospital today with guns, body armor and potential explosives. No one hurt so far as I know.

And overnight, Virginia Beach. At least 9 shot, 2 dead, including a suspect.

My "Libertarian" friend that some of you have argued with on Facebook is really chucking hard at becoming a politician one day.

GUEST COLUMN: Banning ‘assault weapons’ will not stop mass shootings

I just wish he'd grow up.

From Johnnie's friend ...

Common sense and historical observations dictate that even with an outright ban of weapons like the AR-15, determined monsters will still commit mass shootings with whatever firearms are accessible, and with largely similar outcomes. And then what? More and more bans until law-abiding citizens are entirely divested of their right to bear arms?

If you insist.

When you know what the bad faith arguments going to be right from the title

Love the argument that removing military weapons from the equation won’t stop mass shootings. No shit, Sherlock but you can’t kill 58 people in 9 minutes from a quarter mile away with a Glock.

My friend linked this article he wrote on Facebook and a person commented "it's nice of you to say what won't work, but you don't propose anything, in your opinion, as to what can work. I look forward to your follow up column where you propose solutions. Let's say the Democrats aren't proposing the best solutions, at least they are trying something. The Republican response is literally nothing."

Made me feel good.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:16 pm My "Libertarian" friend that some of you have argued with on Facebook is really chucking hard at becoming a politician one day.

GUEST COLUMN: Banning ‘assault weapons’ will not stop mass shootings

I just wish he'd grow up.

Back in the days before I realized most people can't be reasoned with.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:16 pm My "Libertarian" friend that some of you have argued with on Facebook is really chucking hard at becoming a politician one day.

GUEST COLUMN: Banning ‘assault weapons’ will not stop mass shootings

I just wish he'd grow up.

Back in the days before I realized most people can't be reasoned with.

And back before I realized "Libertarian" was simply just a front for "Republican, but younger and trendier."

I actually kinda identified with it. Pro gun, pro weed, pro LGBT. Sounds good. Then you get into their economic theory and governance ideology and it falls apart. Then it's like, wait do you care more about weed legalization and LGBT rights or ARs for everyone? Oh, you're voting Trump. Gotcha.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:57 pm

The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:42 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:16 pm My "Libertarian" friend that some of you have argued with on Facebook is really chucking hard at becoming a politician one day.

GUEST COLUMN: Banning ‘assault weapons’ will not stop mass shootings

I just wish he'd grow up.

Back in the days before I realized most people can't be reasoned with.

And back before I realized "Libertarian" was simply just a front for "Republican, but younger and trendier."

I actually kinda identified with it. Pro gun, pro weed, pro LGBT. Sounds good. Then you get into their economic theory and governance ideology and it falls apart. Then it's like, wait do you care more about weed legalization and LGBT rights or ARs for everyone? Oh, you're voting Trump. Gotcha.

I'm right there with ya, Johnnie. (Although I was never pro-gun). But, I used to identify with some the other things such as pro weed, pro LGBT, not religious... but it really fell apart after the tea party dicks took up the mantle.

"Assault weapons" in quotation marks in the headline tells you all you need to know.

Reaper wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:55 am And overnight, Virginia Beach. At least 9 shot, 2 dead, including a suspect.

This story is just more confusing now. The dead "suspect" is no longer a suspect in the overall shootings, may or may not have been armed, killed by a cop whose body camera was turned off, and happens to be Pharrell's cousin. Three people have been arrested, but not for the killing of the other woman who died from a "stray" bullet.

Apparently a car rammed two cops and then they shot the driver.