The Swamp

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:25 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:50 pm Got a full cash offer on the 3rd showing this morning up to $10k over asking. By 1400 tomorrow I'll know exactly what it's going for.

And one of my board games came in from Kickstarter today plus I tried this new pizza place and I had the day off work.

So yea. Today was a good day.

Happy birthday to me.

You catch the lights on the Goodyear Blimp?

That’s awesome.

And so is that.

We’re gonna list for $359K and I’d be thrilled to get $355K.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:25 pm

Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:50 pm Got a full cash offer on the 3rd showing this morning up to $10k over asking. By 1400 tomorrow I'll know exactly what it's going for.

And one of my board games came in from Kickstarter today plus I tried this new pizza place and I had the day off work.

So yea. Today was a good day.

Happy birthday to me.

You catch the lights on the Goodyear Blimp?

It said JOHNNIE AIR FORCE IS A PIMP.

Just threw out three garbage bags full of all kinds of random crap and it was amazingly liberating.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:31 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:09 pm This is where half of us go to a quiet place and sob.

Nooooo shit! I made the mistake of looking at taxes. I legit got nauseous. I'm going to doxx Rass and post his house next.

Those taxes... Before we built the house the 1/2 acre empty lot was $1K.

testuser2 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:47 am

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:31 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:09 pm This is where half of us go to a quiet place and sob.

Nooooo shit! I made the mistake of looking at taxes. I legit got nauseous. I'm going to doxx Rass and post his house next.

Those taxes... Before we built the house the 1/2 acre empty lot was $1K.

If my math is correct, the 1/2 acre lot my house sits on is taxed at over $7k. I don't know if you can take a percentage of land valuation towards total valuation and divide out. I need to move out NJ.

The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:04 am If my math is correct, the 1/2 acre lot my house sits on is taxed at over $7k. I don't know if you can take a percentage of land valuation towards total valuation and divide out. I need to move out NJ.

The kids school is the deciding factor for us. I could easily see the wife and I doing a house somewhere warmer in the winter and up north in the summer. Cost would be the same if we downsized and were smart about where we lived. It looks like I'll be remote permanently and the wife has had head hunters from Univ of Miami and Ariz State calling in the past year. So it's not much of a stretch.

we escrow about $450 a month to taxes and insurance. god bless middle america

...and the southwest.

It was cool growing up on the east coast, but I knew immediately I was never going back there full time once I joined the military. I'd never be able to save anything.

Its definitely a curse. I really like where we live now but its only because its central to where our parents and families are. If mine had moved to Florida or somewhere "away" from me, I'd have no issue re-settling somewhere off the east coast, atleast as a trial.

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:17 am we escrow about $450 a month to taxes and insurance. god bless middle america

I think that's almost enough to cover both houses for me. (Though Utah apparently has a higher income tax than most other states.)

It is absolutely ridiculous and frankly borderline shameful how much crap we have in our house. Even if the house doesn't sell this has been a good project to throw out and sell most of our crap.

brian wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:05 pm It is absolutely ridiculous and frankly borderline shameful how much crap we have in our house. Even if the house doesn't sell this has been a good project to throw out and sell most of our crap.

We said the same thing. Just imagine if you had kids, 75% of the crap in our house was theirs.

Yup. I live light and lean as much as I can. When you have to move all the time it's necessary.

Minor update for me: the buyer came back with a list of stuff to fix after their inspections. My ducts needed to be completely reconditioned. The sewer line had to be cleaned. And the 'penetrations' through the roof just needed an extra layer of goop applied. Unfortunately the ductwork and roof stuff will have to be listed as a credit on closing since there's nobody that can get to it by close. Very minor hit ($1,300 credit) compared with what I'm making overall, so no biggie.

All that's left now is the appraisal, which I'm not completely concerned about, but will absolutely be pissed off by if it comes in less than what we're under contract for. I still can't completely understand why this is done at the end instead of the beginning. And despite that the person is going to pay full cash for the house (and prepared to go 10k over asking if necessary), whatever it's appraised for should be 100% moot. I would really hate to lose a bunch of money because some guy said "nah." Very dumb.

(It's one thing in my mind that a bank giving a loan wants to know the value because it's a reality check to the buyer. But the buyer straight up? Completely dumb, IMO.)

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:22 pm Yup. I live light and lean as much as I can. When you have to move all the time it's necessary.

Minor update for me: the buyer came back with a list of stuff to fix after their inspections. My ducts needed to be completely reconditioned. The sewer line had to be cleaned. And the 'penetrations' through the roof just needed an extra layer of goop applied. Unfortunately the ductwork and roof stuff will have to be listed as a credit on closing since there's nobody that can get to it by close. Very minor hit ($1,300 credit) compared with what I'm making overall, so no biggie.

All that's left now is the appraisal, which I'm not completely concerned about, but will absolutely be pissed off by if it comes in less than what we're under contract for. I still can't completely understand why this is done at the end instead of the beginning. And despite that the person is going to pay full cash for the house (and prepared to go 10k over asking if necessary), whatever it's appraised for should be 100% moot. I would really hate to lose a bunch of money because some guy said "nah." Very dumb.

(It's one thing in my mind that a bank giving a loan wants to know the value because it's a reality check to the buyer. But the buyer straight up? Completely dumb, IMO.)

Well, there may be laws related to taxes that require it to prevent people from selling it for very low prices to a family member or whatnot so this acts as a check. But if the buyer is paying cash and have already agreed to a price, you should be OK. If it comes in WAAAY lower I could see the buyer cutting bait and walking away from the deposit if you couldn't agree somewhere in the middle. But I also don't think you should wiggle that much since you did agree already.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:22 pm Yup. I live light and lean as much as I can. When you have to move all the time it's necessary.

Minor update for me: the buyer came back with a list of stuff to fix after their inspections. My ducts needed to be completely reconditioned. The sewer line had to be cleaned. And the 'penetrations' through the roof just needed an extra layer of goop applied. Unfortunately the ductwork and roof stuff will have to be listed as a credit on closing since there's nobody that can get to it by close. Very minor hit ($1,300 credit) compared with what I'm making overall, so no biggie.

All that's left now is the appraisal, which I'm not completely concerned about, but will absolutely be pissed off by if it comes in less than what we're under contract for. I still can't completely understand why this is done at the end instead of the beginning. And despite that the person is going to pay full cash for the house (and prepared to go 10k over asking if necessary), whatever it's appraised for should be 100% moot. I would really hate to lose a bunch of money because some guy said "nah." Very dumb.

(It's one thing in my mind that a bank giving a loan wants to know the value because it's a reality check to the buyer. But the buyer straight up? Completely dumb, IMO.)

That's odd, who is doing the appraisal? From my experience, appraisals are only done by mortgage companies to make sure the house is worth what the buyer is paying, to protect themselves if the buyer defaults on the mortgage. I'm pretty sure you can sell the house for $1. Our house was initially purchased by the builder, then sold to his business for $1. He must have gotten hit with a huge tax bill for the profits on the sale, since it wasn't a primary residence, so I don't know why he'd want to buy it for $1. Transfer tax is much lower than the tax on a sale for profit.

Yea, the example you mention tracks about the appraisal. I can see that.

And I don't want to budge at all. Where I don't have leverage is that I have to get on a plane to Seattle (and Korea thereafter) because of the military on 7 November. If we get this far into the process and it doesn't hit at what was offered, it's a push/pull as to whether taking what I can and not looking back is the correct option as opposed to doing this all by proxy from halfway across the planet.

What's going for me right now are the comps in my neighborhood and what they've sold for. Plus, I definitely trust my realtor that she wouldn't knowingly put me in a position to lose (because she also loses, by extension).

ETA

The buyer is paying for an appraisal. Why? I guess to be sure she's getting her money's worth? In this market, in my location, with all the work put into the house, and the recognition it could be worth more in the event of a bidding war? The place should raise no red flags or merit being worth less. But we'll see.

Is it possible the appraisal is because he used all cash as a negotiating advantage and plans to apply for a mortgage post-close? That doesn't make a ton of sense, but I can't think of anything else.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:57 pm Yea, the example you mention tracks about the appraisal. I can see that.

And I don't want to budge at all. Where I don't have leverage is that I have to get on a plane to Seattle (and Korea thereafter) because of the military on 7 November. If we get this far into the process and it doesn't hit at what was offered, it's a push/pull as to whether taking what I can and not looking back is the correct option as opposed to doing this all by proxy from halfway across the planet.

What's going for me right now are the comps in my neighborhood and what they've sold for. Plus, I definitely trust my realtor that she wouldn't knowingly put me in a position to lose (because she also loses, by extension).

ETA

The buyer is paying for an appraisal. Why? I guess to be sure she's getting her money's worth? In this market, in my location, with all the work put into the house, and the recognition it could be worth more in the event of a bidding war? The place should raise no red flags or merit being worth less. But we'll see.

Tell that to your shitty duct work.

When I refinanced, the appraiser asked me “is there a number we need to get to?” It wasn’t anywhere close to being an issue, but I tipped him twenty bucks for the thought.

sancarlos wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:40 pm When I refinanced, the appraiser asked me “is there a number we need to get to?” It wasn’t anywhere close to being an issue, but I tipped him twenty bucks for the thought.

In my experience refinancing, buying and selling, the appraisals have always magically come in at EXACTLY the sale price, or in the case of refinancing, the price I purchased.

Appraisal done today. I'll know what comes of it this week.

In the meantime, I'm thinking ahead and wondering between the profit on this house (and what I made selling my car) plus what I'll be able to save over the next year in Korea, should I buy a house utilizing a big down payment or no?

I bought this house with my VA loan and with affordability and efficiency in mind (I didn't want to overspend, basically). Should I, pending APRs remain historically low, stick to that (and have a really low mortgage) or splurge a bit (and have a similar mortgage as to what I have now? Or even just do what I did here and keep the money in savings?

My Tucson housing allowance will actually be a bit more than here and my wife makes more than me. So we'll be in good shape no matter what.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:36 pm Appraisal done today. I'll know what comes of it this week.

In the meantime, I'm thinking ahead and wondering between the profit on this house (and what I made selling my car) plus what I'll be able to save over the next year in Korea, should I buy a house utilizing a big down payment or no?

I bought this house with my VA loan and with affordability and efficiency in mind (I didn't want to overspend, basically). Should I, pending APRs remain historically low, stick to that (and have a really low mortgage) or splurge a bit (and have a similar mortgage as to what I have now? Or even just do what I did here and keep the money in savings?

My Tucson housing allowance will actually be a bit more than here and my wife makes more than me. So we'll be in good shape no matter what.

If the interest rates are as low as they are now, you'd be much better off doing a reasonable down payment (maybe enough to eliminate PMI off the bat) and investing the rest.

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:13 am

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:36 pm Appraisal done today. I'll know what comes of it this week.

In the meantime, I'm thinking ahead and wondering between the profit on this house (and what I made selling my car) plus what I'll be able to save over the next year in Korea, should I buy a house utilizing a big down payment or no?

I bought this house with my VA loan and with affordability and efficiency in mind (I didn't want to overspend, basically). Should I, pending APRs remain historically low, stick to that (and have a really low mortgage) or splurge a bit (and have a similar mortgage as to what I have now? Or even just do what I did here and keep the money in savings?

My Tucson housing allowance will actually be a bit more than here and my wife makes more than me. So we'll be in good shape no matter what.

If the interest rates are as low as they are now, you'd be much better off doing a reasonable down payment (maybe enough to eliminate PMI off the bat) and investing the rest.

I'm super conservative when it comes to personal finances, but I would never consider buying a house if I couldn't put down 20%. IIRC, you don't plan on having kids. If you do plan on having kids, I'd advise getting a bigger house than you think you need. We initially bought a 1,300 Sq ft. Cape Cod style with no garage, and thought it was enormous. Coming from a tiny Manhattan one-bedroom, we couldn't imagine wanting more space. We also had a small front yard with no backyard. Seemed like a lot of land at the time... Kids take up more space than you can imagine.

I'd also factor in the new state of the business world. If there is a chance you or your wife could be in jobs working from home, you might want to look for a house with dedicated office space. I think that is going to become much more common even after COVID is behind us. A house with a home office will probably be in demand, so I think they will hold value better. Our last house was a bit of a stretch for us at the time, but we had a seller back out on us during attorney review and our house was under contract, so we felt pressured to get under contract ASAP. We were both able to get into higher paying jobs, so it worked out, but it was stressful for a couple years, especially since we bought just before the housing bubble burst, my wife was pregnant, and I was in a 100% commission job at the time the economy collapsed. Good times.

Yup, no kids and my wife did say she wants a bedroom to convert to an office for work. Raytheon will be allowing her to work from home for the foreseeable future.

And hopefully the rates remain low. I'll look into exactly which method of house purchasing I'll need to do. The VA loan will always be my default, but if the math works I'll go the other way.

I just need to settle on exactly what amount I want my future house to cost. That's a bit more tricky.

Johnnie wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:07 pm Yup, no kids and my wife did say she wants a bedroom to convert to an office for work. Raytheon will be allowing her to work from home for the foreseeable future.

And hopefully the rates remain low. I'll look into exactly which method of house purchasing I'll need to do. The VA loan will always be my default, but if the math works I'll go the other way.

I just need to settle on exactly what amount I want my future house to cost. That's a bit more tricky.

.02 here, take it for what it's worth.

If it's at all feasible, no one should be taking 15-30 years to pay off a mortgage, especially in a DINK situation. So in all honesty, what does .5-1.5% APR really mean to you? It's likely money you won't miss. Don't let "low rates" goad you into a purchase you aren't 100% on. It's really not that much money in the long run spread out as long as you're not making minimum payments.

Just in case you haven't run the numbers, I financed 147k on my first home with an 8k down payment. If I would have paid off the mortgage in 30 years at (at the time very competitive) 3.75% APR, it would have cost me nearly 280,000 to pay the loan back. Always pay extra. Get out from under it as soon as you can.

I vote "don't buy".

Giff wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:07 pm That's really nice, Johnnie. I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I could ever convince my wife to move to Abq.

We drove through ABQ on our way out to Florida. Damn, the approach from the NW was gorgeous.

(Also Shreveport. That one places a bit lower on the list of US places Johnnie’s been stationed.)

mister d wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:19 pm I vote "don't buy".

Between property taxes, insurance and mortgage interest you need to see lots of appreciation to break even.

Yeah the "home ownership as the American Dream!" thing is such a fuckin' scam. I'm convinced it's a trick to get people stuck in places and take away their working leverage.

Yup. If no one wants to own, the people who own now are fucked. And if those people go into foreclosure instead of sell, the banks owe the taxes. And if the banks can't pay the taxes ...

...the government pays the taxes for the banks and nobody learns a damn thing as usual?

Shhhh, I need people to not realize that it's mostly all a scam for about another two or three weeks or so. House going on the market this weekend.

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:07 am Yeah the "home ownership as the American Dream!" thing is such a fuckin' scam. I'm convinced it's a trick to get people stuck in places and take away their working leverage.

As opposed to renting or?

I see the value in both, but the idea of someone not controlling where I live, how it's maintained, and what I pay for it is worth it to me to own.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:20 amI see the value in both, but the idea of someone not controlling where I live, how it's maintained, and what I pay for it is worth it to me to own.

If I knew I wasn't ever going to have to or want to move, I think I'd agree. HOWEVAH ... we just crossed four years in our current house which is the longest I've lived in any place since my family moved when I was ~15, so I perpetually fear losing flexibility.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:25 am

BSF21 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:20 amI see the value in both, but the idea of someone not controlling where I live, how it's maintained, and what I pay for it is worth it to me to own.

If I knew I wasn't ever going to have to or want to move, I think I'd agree. HOWEVAH ... we just crossed four years in our current house which is the longest I've lived in any place since my family moved when I was ~15, so I perpetually fear losing flexibility.

I suppose that has a ton to do with it. I think people get so hung up on the idea of "breaking even" on real estate meaning selling it for at or above what you paid for it/put into it, but they discount the opportunity cost saved of living elsewhere. You have to live somewhere so it's either rent or mortgage. I worked it out on the last house we went though.

The home was worth 157k when purchased. We sold for around 190k. We put in approx 15k in upkeep and improvement in the 5 years we lived there. We lose 6% in the sale to commissions. I paid approx 45k in interest on the loan between origination and payoff, putt us somewhere in the range of 215k total living cost. Well that puts us 25k upside down you say, we actually lost money. But we lived there for 60 months. Let's do that math and it comes out that to "rent" a 1950sqft home on .5 acres, we paid about $415/month in "rent". Tough deal to beat there in my mind if you're willing to accept the risk. But that's where people lose sight of the "cost of home ownership". It doesn't have to be the same number to get a good deal, it's not investment real estate, it's your primary home.

Sooo ... flipside there is the risk equation isn't the same when you're dealing with higher numbers in certain regions. The last house we sold we took a small loss on because our oldest was about a year out from kindergarten and we wanted to get established somewhere before she started. The Zillow estimate (which isn't nails, but usually directionally right) is now $95K less than what we sold for and there's new construction going in next door, so we probably dodged a massive, can't-get-out-of-this bullet.

mister d wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47 am Sooo ... flipside there is the risk equation isn't the same when you're dealing with higher numbers in certain regions. The last house we sold we took a small loss on because our oldest was about a year out from kindergarten and we wanted to get established somewhere before she started. The Zillow estimate (which isn't nails, but usually directionally right) is now $95K less than what we sold for and there's new construction going in next door, so we probably dodged a massive, can't-get-out-of-this bullet.

There's always risk and it's certainly so much different in the Midwest than on the coasts so I sympathize there. Just trying to denote that people think If you buy a 200k home and you're there for 5 years and put 20k into it and it sells for the same price or even a little lower, you got fucked. You really didn't because you weren't paying rent at the time and therefore likely got out cheaper than you would have.

The idea of home prices outside of the Midwest scare the shit out of me.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:20 am

Gunpowder wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:07 am Yeah the "home ownership as the American Dream!" thing is such a fuckin' scam. I'm convinced it's a trick to get people stuck in places and take away their working leverage.

As opposed to renting or?

I see the value in both, but the idea of someone not controlling where I live, how it's maintained, and what I pay for it is worth it to me to own.

Well let's say you get offered a job in another city, and it's a great job. You are renting. As long as the destination city is somewhere you'd want to live, you're probably taking it and making a lot more money. At minimum you can use it as leverage at your current job (I've done this multiple times).

Even if it's just a job at another part of your city, but it's behind a traffic tunnel or something that makes it an hour commute. If you just bought a house and you can't pay both the mortgage and the costs for the new house until you can unload the old one, you're kinda stuck. And if your employer knows this, I absolutely think many of them would use that against you at some point knowing you really can't go anywhere else.

Nicole's old boss kept asking if we had bought a house yet and I absolutely think that was one of the reasons for asking.