The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Steve of phpBB
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Steve of phpBB » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:18 am

Johnnie wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:15 am
I just can't wrap my head around the logic that stray bullets only matter when they could've hit someone instead of actually hitting someone
Because when they were firing back in the direction of the gunfire they were taking, that’s legally defensible, at least arguably. But if they were firing wildly enough to endanger others in their homes, that’s not.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Shirley » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:30 am

I think you guys are agreeing with me. The problem here is really the no-knock warrant and the mindset it creates in both the cops and the citizens. But are you going to put a judge in prison for approving the warrant? The detective who asked for it? (I'm not 100% sure how these things happen.)
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by mister d » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:39 am

mister d wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:55 pm
Putting the focus on the officer's shots and not the situation that led to it is intentional obfuscation and I'm sure working.
I'm certainly agreeing.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by HaulCitgo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:43 am

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:32 am
Joe K wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:25 am
Even if Taylor’s ex-boyfriend were storing drugs at her apartment, or for that matter living there, is it really justifiable to execute a warrant in the middle of the night in a residential area, and invite the inherent risk of violence that comes with that?
No. No, it is not.
Yeah these no knock cases are more about drug enforcement policy than police brutality or racism. If you havent read up on Kathryn Johnston its worthwhile. Not a new situation. This is an 92 yr old lady that lived in such a fucked up part of town that she had a gun ready to go when the cops served a warrant on bad info. To cut to the end, the cops fared badly and she fared worse. Drug enforcement has failed for so long now we really ought to try something different.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by BSF21 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:50 am

HaulCitgo wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:43 am
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:32 am
Joe K wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:25 am
Even if Taylor’s ex-boyfriend were storing drugs at her apartment, or for that matter living there, is it really justifiable to execute a warrant in the middle of the night in a residential area, and invite the inherent risk of violence that comes with that?
No. No, it is not.
Drug enforcement has failed for so long now we really ought to try something different.
But it's the primary way to subjugate and control lower-income black communities. So until you rid the systemic racism/for-profit prison and justice system, they have no incentive to change that approach. It makes money, and it keeps cops busy with "cop stuff" instead of focusing on real issues in their community.

How many people are killed by reckless drivers in towns every day? Not even drunks, just reckless dangerous drivers. If it's really about making an impact for life and property, why not look at real statistics about where police can be most effective and work backwards from there? Oh right, because that would involve citing and harassing a higher-income class.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Steve of phpBB » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:18 am

Shirley wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:30 am
I think you guys are agreeing with me. The problem here is really the no-knock warrant and the mindset it creates in both the cops and the citizens. But are you going to put a judge in prison for approving the warrant? The detective who asked for it? (I'm not 100% sure how these things happen.)
If we're talking about that "reckless endangerment by creating a situation where lethal force is likely to become necessary" law I was suggesting, yes I think you prosecute the people involved in deciding to ask for the no-knock warrant.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by DSafetyGuy » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:44 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:20 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:20 pm
The Tamir Rice shooting falls into that category - the cops drove right up to the kid and then "had to" shoot him in reasonable self defense when he didn't drop his toy in four seconds.
Police car stops at 8:38, Rice is on the ground by 8:40. That is in no way self defense.

Defund the police.
Steve, I didn't quote your post that I'm responding to in order to declutter, but I'm saying there wasn't even a thought into it other than "shoot". Your "four seconds" implies they took the time to actually give an order.

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Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:46 am
The overwhelming issue I have is regardless of the tangle web of justified or tragic accident or execution or what, police who get into tactical units that I have personally encountered have a very "us or them" mentality. They don't view it as protecting/serving their community. The job is to get bad guys, they've got their mind made up that this is a bad guy and know that they're overwhelmingly protected over any civilian they might hurt or kill, guilty or not. And when it works they get to high five their buddies and feel good about "getting drugs off the street" or whatever when all of that effort and waste and senseless violence could be channeled back into the community. In to social workers being able to respond to non-threatening calls. In to walking the beat of a community that you as an officer are responsible for. Into education of the disadvantaged areas to help lift those people up. But instead we promise these guys cars and guns and limitless protections by their peers and when you grow up watching COPS that's what you get.
Defund the police.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Rex » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:50 am

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:18 am
Shirley wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:30 am
I think you guys are agreeing with me. The problem here is really the no-knock warrant and the mindset it creates in both the cops and the citizens. But are you going to put a judge in prison for approving the warrant? The detective who asked for it? (I'm not 100% sure how these things happen.)
If we're talking about that "reckless endangerment by creating a situation where lethal force is likely to become necessary" law I was suggesting, yes I think you prosecute the people involved in deciding to ask for the no-knock warrant.
And in case there are any judges out there reading sportsfrog.com, no you do not prosecute the judge. She only knows what she is being told by the party seeking the warrant.

Some states (maybe all of them, I don't know) have a mechanism in place to investigate ethics violations by judges, which can include incompetence or bias in handling matters like this.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Steve of phpBB » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:56 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:44 am
Defund the police.
I think I've come around to Disarm the Police.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Shirley » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:13 pm

Rex wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:50 am
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:18 am
Shirley wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:30 am
I think you guys are agreeing with me. The problem here is really the no-knock warrant and the mindset it creates in both the cops and the citizens. But are you going to put a judge in prison for approving the warrant? The detective who asked for it? (I'm not 100% sure how these things happen.)
If we're talking about that "reckless endangerment by creating a situation where lethal force is likely to become necessary" law I was suggesting, yes I think you prosecute the people involved in deciding to ask for the no-knock warrant.
And in case there are any judges out there reading sportsfrog.com, no you do not prosecute the judge. She only knows what she is being told by the party seeking the warrant.

Some states (maybe all of them, I don't know) have a mechanism in place to investigate ethics violations by judges, which can include incompetence or bias in handling matters like this.
From reading the timeline of events that led to the warrants, I don't think a warrant for Taylor's home was unreasonable. A no-knock one probably was though, particularly because they already seemed to know where her ex-boyfriend was going to be. In fact, they'd already arrested him something like 20 minutes before kicking down her door and shooting her.

But still, when they wrote up the warrants, they couldn't really know how things would go or where the guy would be. I kind of get issuing warrants and trying to execute them all at roughly the same time.

Is there some negligence there? Probably, yeah. But murder or even manslaughter? Probably not.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by HaulCitgo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:36 pm

And the cop only knows what the witness told them and the prosecutor knows even less who knows more than the judge. So hard to apportion blame. Even with Kathryn Johnston it was the cover up that got them not the false informant info that got the warrant. That's still allowed.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by rass » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:18 pm

Just saw a Jeep with a 3 percenter flag drive through town.

On the plus side, this particular right winger appears to love dogs and uses their turn signals when changing lanes.
I felt aswirl with warm secretions.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by sancarlos » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:06 pm

"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian

I never shoulda punched that horse. - AB

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by DaveInSeattle » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:45 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:36 pm
And the cop only knows what the witness told them and the prosecutor knows even less who knows more than the judge. So hard to apportion blame. Even with Kathryn Johnston it was the cover up that got them not the false informant info that got the warrant. That's still allowed.
Pretty good breakdown of things in the WaPost:

Correcting the misinformation about Breonna Taylor

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by sancarlos » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:39 pm

"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian

I never shoulda punched that horse. - AB

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Pruitt » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:14 am

Come to Canada. Your fellow Americans are totally fucked up.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by govmentchedda » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am

Pruitt wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:14 am
Come to Canada. Your fellow Americans are totally fucked up.
This conversation comes up in my house more than you would imagine.
I took a two hour nap and cried during parks and Rec. it was awesome and terrifying.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Steve of phpBB » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:49 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am
Pruitt wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:14 am
Come to Canada. Your fellow Americans are totally fucked up.
This conversation comes up in my house more than you would imagine.
Yeah, me too. My dad’s a Canadian citizen so I might be able to actually do it. Don’t know what I’d do for work though. Starting over at 55 sounds pretty daunting.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by mister d » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:15 am

Even worse, you’d be 88.5 in Canada.
rass wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:20 am
I'm definitely known as "the boy who cried penis" in town.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by sancarlos » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:12 am

Pruitt wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:14 am
Come to Canada. Your fellow Americans are totally fucked up.
Of course, Americans aren’t even allowed to visit at the moment.

My parents are born and raised Canadians who naturalized American when I was a kid. I have relatives in about half of the provinces. You bet my wife and I have talked about it.
"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Steve of phpBB » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:42 pm

mister d wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:15 am
Even worse, you’d be 88.5 in Canada.
Lol
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by sancarlos » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:44 pm

JFC!
"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian

I never shoulda punched that horse. - AB

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by govmentchedda » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:40 pm

That microbe doesn't play around. Feels like most of the problems with it are if it is ingested up the nose, like wiping out waterskiing on a warm lake.
I took a two hour nap and cried during parks and Rec. it was awesome and terrifying.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Johnnie » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:12 pm

mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by mister d » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:30 pm

rass wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:20 am
I'm definitely known as "the boy who cried penis" in town.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by tennbengal » Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:57 pm


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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by DSafetyGuy » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:42 pm

“All I'm sayin' is, he comes near me, I'll put him in the wall.”

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by brian » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:36 pm

Tens of thousands taking to the streets in Thailand to protest "emergency restrictions" put in place by the Prime Minister, who also led the military junta that took power in a 2014 coup.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Pruitt » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:44 pm

brian wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:36 pm
Tens of thousands taking to the streets in Thailand to protest "emergency restrictions" put in place by the Prime Minister, who also led the military junta that took power in a 2014 coup.
That country has such a laid back image in the west.

Yet you criticize the king, you go to jail. Nasty sounding place.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Ryan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:41 am

Finally, some much-needed nuance


screenshot-www.unionleader.com-2020.10.28-08_40_16.png
screenshot-www.unionleader.com-2020.10.28-08_40_16.png (66.85 KiB) Viewed 209 times
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The

holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by HaulCitgo » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:15 am

Aren't we all based on our experiences?

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by The Sybian » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:19 am

HaulCitgo wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:15 am
Aren't we all based on our experiences?
You know what, we are. I prefer to use the term bias rather than prejudice, but yeah. It's impossible not to be. I came here to procrastinate from preparing materials for an Unconscious Bias training and it all comes full circle.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Steve of phpBB » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:45 am

We're all biased, we're all prejudiced, and we're all racist. It's all a matter of degree.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by BSF21 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:08 am

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:45 am
We're all biased, we're all prejudiced, and we're all racist. It's all a matter of degree.
^^ And this is why purity tests are bullshit. It's all a matter of where your personal "I'm uncomfortable" line is. Which is a terrible thing to admit about humanity but here we are.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by Johnnie » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:13 pm

Kyle Rittenhouse says he used coronavirus stimulus check to buy AR-15 used in fatal shooting

'MURICA

Oh, Swamp Lawyers, is it a good idea for a person sitting in jail awaiting trial to give interviews? That seems like the dumbest thing ever. Hopefully the lawyers are just getting rich off of this dumbass and letting him send himself to prison.
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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by tennbengal » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:26 pm

He's betting the law doesn't apply to him. Following the example set in the WH. He might be right.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by EnochRoot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:01 pm

This should be shot down by SCOTUS on constitutional grounds, and maybe a sharp rebuke pointed at the two justices.


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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by HaulCitgo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:58 pm

You don't like what they're saying so they shouldn't be able to say it? Not sure about that logic. Quite sure scotus would say that type of ordinance rightfully requires greater scrutiny. And you're definitely barking up the wrong tree with his court .

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by EnochRoot » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:38 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:58 pm
You don't like what they're saying so they shouldn't be able to say it? Not sure about that logic. Quite sure scotus would say that type of ordinance rightfully requires greater scrutiny. And you're definitely barking up the wrong tree with his court .
No, I think the rebuke would deal with the fact they interpreted this as a first amendment issue, where faith healers and therapists are now free to use pseudoscience to trample on the constitutional rights of children / patients.

The American Medical Association outlines why this is a pretty horrible form of treatment.
All leading professional medical and mental health associations reject “conversion therapy” as a legitimate medical treatment. In addition to the clinical risks associated with the practice, the means through which providers or counselors administer change efforts violate many important ethical principles, the foremost of which: “First, do no harm.”
A health care provider’s nonjudgmental recognition of and respect for patients’ sexual orientations, sexual behaviors and gender identity are essential elements in rendering optimal patient care in health, as well as in illness. This recognition is especially important to address the specific health care needs of people who are or may be LGBTQ as these patients often experience disparities in access to care. Yet administering change efforts is an inherently discriminatory practice often administered coercively and fraught with ethical problems, such as:
  • Uninformed consent: change efforts are often prescribed without full descriptions of risks and disclosure of lack of efficacy or evidence
  • Breaches of confidentiality: content of treatment, sexual orientation and gender identity may be shared with family, school or religious leaders without proper consent
  • Patient discrimination: change efforts reinforce bias, discrimination and stigma against LGBTQ individuals
  • Indiscriminate and improper treatment: change efforts are recommended regardless of evidence
  • Patient blaming: the failure of treatment may be blamed on the patient
It is clinically and ethically inappropriate for health care providers to direct mental or behavioral health interventions, including SOCE and GICE, with a prescriptive goal aimed at achieving a fixed developmental outcome of a child’s or adolescent’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression.

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Re: The Important Sounds of Things Falling Apart

Post by HaulCitgo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:31 pm

Malpractice suits maybe. Don't think civil claims by kids vs parents often succeed. Could criminally punish unethical psychotherapy?

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