Game of Thrones....

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Shirley wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:59 pm I just watched it a bit ago and I thought the episode was pretty damn great. I can't recall watching something with that much sustained intensity since maybe when I first watched Aliens in the theater.

Did the good guys make some serious strategic mistakes? Sure, but that's to be expected. Not a lot of battle-hardened leaders out there. Maybe only Jaime? And I'm not sure he's really in a position to be taking over.

To me, the biggest potential mistake is not using the dragons earlier. Way earlier. I think they should have flown them out hours earlier, if only for recon. But then, possibly for a few quick guerilla strikes to cook up masses of wights long before they reached Winterfell. The reason why I typed "potential" up there though is the real concern that the Night King not only killed a dragon last time he saw one, but he then raised that one and now has one of his own. So, maybe they were afraid to expose their two good dragons too soon.

Either way, sending the Dothraki out in a blind charge was pretty dumb, even if it looked cool. That said, the Dothraki are known for eschewing any sort of strategy in battle and may have prefered doing exactly what they did. At least up until they hit a wall of the dead and realized their mistake.

Again, all in all, I loved it. I love that Arya got to deliver the final blow. I do think it's a bit anti-climactic that this happened in Ep 3 though. I figured the NK wouldn't be defeated until nearer the end.
There we go.

Totally agree, in terms of my take on Dothraki. They aren't the "let's be patient and see how this shit plays out" kind of warriors.

And I absolutely agree about the dragons. Having that mother fucker Bruce Jenner/javelin the fuck out of that dragon was a total mind fuck for everyone involved. Trotting them out in the open was SUPER risky, at least in their minds. But they sure left it late to come in and fuck shit up.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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(I have not been to Fredericksburg.)
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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OMG

Trae Crowder: "...It's not like the fire swords did the Dothraki much good, considering they just Leroy Jenkins'd their asses into the pitch dark zombie hordes..."
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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TT2.0 wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 am Am I the only one that thought Arya left and took Brans face to get close enough to kill the night king?
That would have been good. She really hasn't taken advantage of her disguise skills this season.. For a moment, I thought Bran was going to team up with the night king...I have nothing to back up that thought other than he has been creepy and weird.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Shirley »

The show set up the final Arya kill with three prior scenes:

Bran gives Arya the dagger in almost the exact spot:


Arya sneaks up on Jon in almost the exact spot:


Arya deploys the switch-hands dagger move on Brienne:



Pretty cool.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by A_B »

EdRomero wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:33 pm
TT2.0 wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 am Am I the only one that thought Arya left and took Brans face to get close enough to kill the night king?
That would have been good. She really hasn't taken advantage of her disguise skills this season.. For a moment, I thought Bran was going to team up with the night king...I have nothing to back up that thought other than he has been creepy and weird.
Can't she only take the face of dead people?
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Johnnie »

A_B wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:03 am
EdRomero wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:33 pm
TT2.0 wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 am Am I the only one that thought Arya left and took Brans face to get close enough to kill the night king?
That would have been good. She really hasn't taken advantage of her disguise skills this season.. For a moment, I thought Bran was going to team up with the night king...I have nothing to back up that thought other than he has been creepy and weird.
Can't she only take the face of dead people?
I believe so.

Makes me think that she takes Jamie's face to kill Cersei. I think Bronn gets to him.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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The comments in this thread are from people very let down that the story has broken from its core. (Cersei being a mastermind and getting away with everything, Tyrion not being one, the lore suggesting Jon should have killed the NK, Bran being effectively pointless...etc)

There are some compelling arguments, but I'm like ehhhhh. I think the writers write for the large swath of fans the series had as opposed to the niche crew that's followed the books since when A Game of Thrones first came out.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Totally agree with that Johnnie. The subset of book nerds is not who the showrunners are serving, especially now that we're well past anything driven by actual GRR writing.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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I also come back to a basic tenet of mine when watching, reading, listening to anything that is meant purely for entertainment (as opposed to nonfiction/reporting):

I am hoping to be entertained. I am not LOOKING for holes to poke in things. I'm not gleefully picking apart every perceived plot hole so I can post about it online and feel smarter than everyone in the room.* My lens is not coated with that film.

Now, if something is just dreadful, I'll also just stop watching/reading/listening. I've dumped dozens of podcasts for various reasons, walked away from TV shows/series, etc. etc. I'm not just going to watch shit.

But this deep into GoT, I'm along for the ride and enjoying every minute of it. I don't have a rooting interest in terms of who fucking kills the NK and now Cersei... Just fascinated by the journey.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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http://time.com/5579736/game-of-thrones ... rgEFgWq_n8

This was helpful to me to understand what's going on with Bran. I know a lot of you guys are more steeped in this stuff, but Warging during the battle to manipulate the past to achieve a means to an end certainly seems plausible.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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For the plot hole pokers..


Image
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Yeah, Arya being the one to kill the Night King was one of the most believable aspects of the episode. I just wish they would have shown how she got past the hundreds or so dudes who were surrounding the Night King and Bran, but they don't need to show me everything (and perhaps they will show/explain it in a future episode).
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:56 pm Random Ass Question: You ever been to Fort A.P. Hill in Fredericksburg?
I've been there! Was on staff at the National Boy Scouts jamboree in the summer of 1981, so I spent almost a month there.

Also the site of the weirdest concert I've ever seen: The Oak Ridge Boys, with Burl Ives as the opener!
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by A_B »

Here's a poser...did the plan to have the dothraki and unsullied be "cannon fodder" actually arise from Tyrion or Sansa wanting to weaken Dany's "base" if they did survive the Night King? I think both were actually placed where they were based on their combat strengths, but it is a sidenote that could be considered helpful to the North's troops.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:26 pm5) I think an under-rated aspect of this episode is the mix of battle, fighting, hiding and poignant moments mixed in. We get these Dothraki weapon lighting/extinguishing and then the close in craziness, and then Ayra sneaking around in that crazy scene, and then the crypt... The aerial dragon fighting. I still want to revert back to point #1, because it was damn near impossible to tell what was going on for so much.
Yes, great point.

One things about all the Dothraki getting annihilated. They are a horrible murderous bunch, who have no problem slaughtering and raping and torturing their adversaris. So while it was a waste in a military sense, it wasn't exactly tragic. (Discomfort about racial issues aside anyway.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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A_B wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:44 am Here's a poser...did the plan to have the dothraki and unsullied be "cannon fodder" actually arise from Tyrion or Sansa wanting to weaken Dany's "base" if they did survive the Night King? I think both were actually placed where they were based on their combat strengths, but it is a sidenote that could be considered helpful to the North's troops.
Yeah, that's interesting. Jorah dying doesn't exactly help her there either. She doesn't have a lot of allies left.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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The Dothraki did carve through the Lannisters like butter, so it would be somewhat expected that they'd do some damage to the Death Army. Also seems that they're not for formation fighting or following plans other than crushing all of those in their path, so it makes some sense to have them where they are.

Also as mentioned it looked really cool when the flame was extingushed.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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So, I was thinking about how the various Gods worked out.

The Old Gods, as represented by Bran really showed well, orchestrating so much of how it all went down. And might have been manipulating things for quite a while too.

R'hlorr showed throughout the show actual power, bringing critical characters back to life. But his main emissary, Melisandre took a lot of missteps, particularly as it pertained to Stannis. Still, she really kept things moving in the final battle, and Beric sacrificed himself to keep Arya alive (the motivation for which wasn't evident at the time).

The Many-Faced God of course dealt the killing blow.

The Seven proved throughout the show to be most politically savvy, but in the end, got their asses handed to them (or rather, blown the hell up).

I'd rank them as such:

1. Old Gods
2. Many-Faced God (in this world, assassins are critical)
3. R'hlorr
4. Drowned God (maybe doesn't even exist, but still better than The Seven)
5. The Seven
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Rush2112 wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:31 pm The Dothraki did carve through the Lannisters like butter, so it would be somewhat expected that they'd do some damage to the Death Army. Also seems that they're not for formation fighting or following plans other than crushing all of those in their path, so it makes some sense to have them where they are.

Also as mentioned it looked really cool when the flame was extingushed.
Yeah, I've seen a few of those "military experts weigh in" and they keep pulling shit like "The Dothraki are considered light cavalry and should've been deployed on the flanks to execute quite surgical strikes as needed."

Fuck off with that shit. You seen how the Dothraki's roll?? They're not wired like that.

Now, I had issues with where they built the trench, and that they didn't have any of that fiery oil shit to pour down the walls, but...

I mean, in defense of the Living, they really only had, what a couple of days to pull all that shit together. It was just so tense and frustrating watching them get run over for 80 minutes.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:26 pm
1) I have a pretty nice TV, not the best but only a couple years old and decent cable for most shows. Netflix is sharp as shit, for example. That shit was dark as fuck and large stretches were almost unwatchable. I really think they did something technologically that backfired on them. I'm not exaggerating when I say I couldn't see about 30 percent of that show. My wife was pissed. I got over it, but I listen to a lot of podcasts so I'm used to just listening to audio and being entertained.
And the cinematographer confirms something was off with the compression. I was pretty damn sure something was amiss, no way they wanted so much of it to be that fucking messed up. It wasn't that it was blurry, it was doing that weird pixelation thing...

I might try fucking with contrast and re-watching it. I've heard that helps. And as for where I watch, it's pretty much our basement den and when we turn out the lights it's darker than a theater, so... Not buying the whole glare thing.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:26 pm
1) I have a pretty nice TV, not the best but only a couple years old and decent cable for most shows. Netflix is sharp as shit, for example. That shit was dark as fuck and large stretches were almost unwatchable. I really think they did something technologically that backfired on them. I'm not exaggerating when I say I couldn't see about 30 percent of that show. My wife was pissed. I got over it, but I listen to a lot of podcasts so I'm used to just listening to audio and being entertained.
And the cinematographer confirms something was off with the compression. I was pretty damn sure something was amiss, no way they wanted so much of it to be that fucking messed up. It wasn't that it was blurry, it was doing that weird pixelation thing...

I might try fucking with contrast and re-watching it. I've heard that helps. And as for where I watch, it's pretty much our basement den and when we turn out the lights it's darker than a theater, so... Not buying the whole glare thing.
That's kind of a bummer if so, because that had to be one of the most expensive episodes of TV ever filmed -- maybe THE most expensive.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:26 pm
1) I have a pretty nice TV, not the best but only a couple years old and decent cable for most shows. Netflix is sharp as shit, for example. That shit was dark as fuck and large stretches were almost unwatchable. I really think they did something technologically that backfired on them. I'm not exaggerating when I say I couldn't see about 30 percent of that show. My wife was pissed. I got over it, but I listen to a lot of podcasts so I'm used to just listening to audio and being entertained.
And the cinematographer confirms something was off with the compression. I was pretty damn sure something was amiss, no way they wanted so much of it to be that fucking messed up. It wasn't that it was blurry, it was doing that weird pixelation thing...

I might try fucking with contrast and re-watching it. I've heard that helps. And as for where I watch, it's pretty much our basement den and when we turn out the lights it's darker than a theater, so... Not buying the whole glare thing.
We watched in a dark room and I have a very low light blue backlight behind the TV. I remarked it looked dark as shit, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I'm sure it was to add to the sense of dread but didn't quite work as planned. You don't say "check your contrast on the TV" AFTER one of the most anticipated TV events of the last 10-15 fucking years.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Yeah, that's kind of a big fuck-up, right?
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Apparently some of the compression issues may have arisen because of the sheer number of people watching it live.

And If I compare it to Helm's Deep on the LOTR DVDs (not blu-ray) it's not even close how much better LOTR is. So seeing this on a blu-ray or fully downloaded and hi-res file might have made a difference. I'm going to re-watch it on my newer television upstairs during a hopefully non-peak time and see if it's any better.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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This is great.

Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Speaking of which, whatever troops Yara can muster together will probably be a big part of the end game of all of this. Would not be surprised if she's the one who ends up killing her uncle (I think he's her uncle?) personally.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Who else has any troops?

I'm sure that anyone not named Lannister will flock to the North once they learn what happened, but I'm not sure who still has anyone to muster to their cause. All of the other great houses are dead.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by tennbengal »

Dorne has troops. And I would think motivation to kill Cersei.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Johnnie »

The Night King's makeup is serious.



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Re: Game of Thrones....

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mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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tennbengal wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:43 pm Dorne has troops. And I would think motivation to kill Cersei.
Oh shit that’s true. And they’re a not especially peaceful people to start.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Fuck.

I'm watching it right now with the Contrast, Sharpness and Brightness pegged in the right direction.

Holy Fuck, y'all. It's like watching a completely different show(movie.)

Holy Fuck.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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BTW, watching this again, some of you nerdnicks have shown remarkable restraint in not point out those are Trebuchets and not Catapults.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Nonlinear FC »

You guys that saw this "clean" can skip over this stuff, but by far one of the most telling issues with the lack of clarity is that the blizzard/storm control stuff was just really difficult to follow. It's much more clear of the impact on the dragons and the battlefield with this clarity.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Ok, if imma nitpick...

Their plan for lighting the trench was for Ser Davos to waive around the rough equivalent of soggy traffic flairs to alert the dragons???

And it's been pointed out countless times elsewhere, but, um Red Witch... A little fucking sense of urgency, man?

=-=-=-==

BTW, watching this back... It really shows how the viewers allowed their tension to fuck with their hot takes. This was a slow build, but the stakes and the scope of things were so overwhelming, they made people over-react to a lot of the in-episode plot points. Hard to fully explain unless you watch it again.

This was a very good episode.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Here's another thing working against GOT and the whole zombie thing...

We are fucking sick to the gills of zombie shit at this point. We know how to (at least nominally) suss out situations and realize "these fuckers are going to build a zombie bridge over the wall toot sweet" so don't rely on that too long.

These (for the most part) Westerosis are all, like, Holy Fuck.. THAT didn't work, when 90 percent of the viewers are 10 years into "Hey, Fucknuts, that's not gonna work" when it comes to the zombies.

It's why it's annoying as fuck that Tyrion didn't suss out the crypt angle.

But it's just not really fair or true to the GoT history and understanding. Kind of a fascinating issue, really.

/nerd
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Re: Game of Thrones....

Post by A_B »

Wait...tyrion didntt see the walking Dead?
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:05 pm BTW, watching this again, some of you nerdnicks have shown remarkable restraint in not point out those are Trebuchets and not Catapults.
Who was calling it a catapult? I know they are trebuchets because I've played Age of Empires.
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Re: Game of Thrones....

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Johnnie wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:07 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:05 pm BTW, watching this again, some of you nerdnicks have shown remarkable restraint in not point out those are Trebuchets and not Catapults.
Who was calling it a catapult? I know they are trebuchets because I've played Age of Empires.
I think I may have on here. And I've seen them referred to as catapults all over the place in recaps.

And I draw my knowledge from the Pumpkin Chuckin' specials on Discovery.
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