Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

[teeteebee]

Chappelle still has his fastball.

[brian]

Chappelle still has his fastball.

Beg to differ and I'll let this tweet thread make my case better than I could. Chapelle is a sad dinosaur.

[brian]

Transphobia, homophobia and making light of child sexual abuse are definitely hilarious.

[Johnnie]

Yeah, I thought it was fine. I didn't laugh a ton, but it's always great when people say "oh, he used to be so great and now he isn't" when his jokes in years past were still as problematic, but in an environment that tolerated problematic jokes. Either he was never great or he still is. Critics need to pick an intellectually honest and consistent argument.

The times changed and so did people's sensibilities. So when you don't confirm to these new sensibilities with newer jokes, you're apparently a living fossil who's way out of touch.

Whatever.

He made jokes and skits about "heroin addicted whites," but his joking opinion about Louis CK is a bridge too far. He called out the standards and practices lady for her reaction that "he's not gay so he cannot say f*ggot," but made an astute comparison that he can say n*gger and he's not one of those either. But the allegory about LGBTs riding in a car and what they're doing in that car on the way to fight for their rights is a bridge too far. Hell, he even made school shooting jokes. And the opener about suicide is something I'm going to try to sneak into our "tactical pause" because people in the Air Force keep committing suicide.

[teeteebee]

Did you watch the special or just read this guy clutching pearls?

The LGBT part was so spot on. Especially the T part - he hit the nail on the head.

The CK stuff? I don’t know. Not sure what else the guy was whining about.

Listen to the whole thing - he nails mostly the entire thing. The ending - bringing it all together. Everyone is entitled to their perspective. From mine, his fastball is still humming and hitting the intended spots.

[brian]

The times changed and so did people's sensibilities. So when you don't confirm to these new sensibilities with newer jokes, you're apparently a living fossil who's way out of touch.

Whatever.

What's so problematic about this opinion exactly? Enlighten me. Yes, the times changed and we have to change with them and if we don't, it's on us, not on society. Chapelle is a fucking bigot. He could have adjusted his act, but chooses not to. That's what a fucking bigot is.

[teeteebee]

Yeah, I thought it was fine. I didn't laugh a ton, but it's always great when people say "oh, he used to be so great and now he isn't" when his jokes in years past were still as problematic, but in an environment that tolerated problematic jokes. Either he was never great or he still is. Critics need to pick an intellectually honest and consistent argument.

The times changed and so did people's sensibilities. So when you don't confirm to these new sensibilities with newer jokes, you're apparently a living fossil who's way out of touch.

Whatever.

He made jokes and skits about "heroin addicted whites," but his joking opinion about Louis CK is a bridge too far. He called out the standards and practices lady for her reaction that "he's not gay so he cannot say f*ggot," but made an astute comparison that he can say n*gger and he's not one of those either. But the allegory about LGBTs riding in a car and what they're doing in that car on the way to fight for their rights is a bridge too far. Hell, he even made school shooting jokes. And the opener about suicide is something I'm going to try to sneak into our "tactical pause" because people in the Air Force keep committing suicide.

Johnnie - Comedy is meant to push the envelope. Have to go back and see the past gods of comedy and how they were able to push the envelope. It’s a medium designed for doing just that. Would have been sad if he played it safe.

The F* and n* part was very astute as you noted.

[tennbengal]

Punching down on trans people? That's pushing the envelope? REALLY?

[teeteebee]

The times changed and so did people's sensibilities. So when you don't confirm to these new sensibilities with newer jokes, you're apparently a living fossil who's way out of touch.

Whatever.

What's so problematic about this opinion exactly? Enlighten me. Yes, the times changed and we have to change with them and if we don't, it's on us, not on society. Chapelle is a fucking bigot. He could have adjusted his act, but chooses not to. That's what a fucking bigot is.

Brian - being serious here - two questions. What part(s) offended you the most? And did you enjoy the Chappelle show?

[brian]

There's nothing funny about punching down and making fun of oppressed minority groups. You might be transphobic and think it's funny to make fun of trans people. Some comedians 50 years ago thought it was funny to make fun of black people. The times change and if you don't change with them, you go extinct.

[brian]

The times changed and so did people's sensibilities. So when you don't confirm to these new sensibilities with newer jokes, you're apparently a living fossil who's way out of touch.

Whatever.

What's so problematic about this opinion exactly? Enlighten me. Yes, the times changed and we have to change with them and if we don't, it's on us, not on society. Chapelle is a fucking bigot. He could have adjusted his act, but chooses not to. That's what a fucking bigot is.

Brian - being serious here - two questions. What part(s) offended you the most? And did you enjoy the Chappelle show?

His last two previous specials were EXTREMELY transphobic and it doesn't sound like this one is any better, but I'll watch it and I'm sure it'll be just as horrible. His show was funny, this shit is not.

[teeteebee]

Punching down on trans people? That's pushing the envelope? REALLY?

So your the arbiter of what/who is appropriate subject matter for a comedian? Come on bengal - it’s comedy. It’s not like this guy is running your company. Comedy - going back forever - has been this way. Just now that we have a “protected” subset of a subset, we have to walk on eggshells?

[brian]

Punching down on trans people? That's pushing the envelope? REALLY?

So your the arbiter of what/who is appropriate subject matter for a comedian? Come on bengal - it’s comedy. It’s not like this guy is running your company. Comedy - going back forever - has been this way. Just now that we have a “protected” subset of a subset, we have to walk on eggshells?

Yes, there are literally no comedians working any more. You really nailed here.

[brian]

It's ironic that Chapelle now most appeals to these repressed, aggrieved white, male Trump supporters who are pissed that you're not allowed to make fun of "homos" any more.

[tennbengal]

Punching down on trans people? That's pushing the envelope? REALLY?

So your the arbiter of what/who is appropriate subject matter for a comedian? Come on bengal - it’s comedy. It’s not like this guy is running your company. Comedy - going back forever - has been this way. Just now that we have a “protected” subset of a subset, we have to walk on eggshells?

Fuck off. Really.

[teeteebee]

There's nothing funny about punching down and making fun of oppressed minority groups. You might be transphobic and think it's funny to make fun of trans people. Some comedians 50 years ago thought it was funny to make fun of black people. The times change and if you don't change with them, you go extinct.

Comedians make fun of any/every topic. Even topics that cover them specifically. And it’s not 50 years - ever see the reparations episode from Chappelle.

I get the commentary, completely, outside the boundaries of comedy. But let’s take this for what it is.

[teeteebee]

Punching down on trans people? That's pushing the envelope? REALLY?

So your the arbiter of what/who is appropriate subject matter for a comedian? Come on bengal - it’s comedy. It’s not like this guy is running your company. Comedy - going back forever - has been this way. Just now that we have a “protected” subset of a subset, we have to walk on eggshells?

Fuck off. Really.

Good day.

[Johnnie]

Because it's a fucking stand up comedy show and he's a stand up comedian? He isn't something more like a politician, school teacher, or public servant who has to have his identity simultaneously be a picture perfect American with upstanding morals.

Because the internet mob wants to consistently topple people for previous wrong doings or not doing things that confirm to their current delicate personalities?

Do people like you seriously expect Dave Chappelle to become Ta-nihisi Coats, the stand up philosopher-comedian? Do you want revelatory orations of deep rooted eureka from the guy that said "Fuck Yo' Couch," dresses up in white face to make jokes about white people, and made the "Piss On You" parody?

Seriously. As if off color jokes told by comedians will ever stop. So living in "It's year [X]! How dare you says things about [Y]!" is a fool's errand and always has been.

If the jokes fall flat for you, fine. Your opinion, your preferences. But to pearl clutch, say "How dare you!", and then act like you are above it all while simultaneously castigate those who enjoy it, it's disingenuous.

[brian]

In Chapelle's case it really is too bad because he used to be funny and still can be if the topic isn't about how much it affects HIM to not be able to do the kind of jokes HE wants to do and it's society's fault, not HIS that times have changed. He mourns for Louis CK because it's not OK to sexually abuse women any more. He's a self-absorbed narcissist who doesn't think HE's the problem.

[tennbengal]

What about kids with autism, should Chapelle head there?

Developmentally disabled people? Do I need to know one of those groups to think that punching down on them is something less than well advised and that a comic of Chapelle's ability ought maybe not to do that? Or should he be BRAVE and PUSH THE ENVELOPE and go after those folks?

Does it matter that my daughter is married to a trans person? Is that funny? Would Chapelle find it funny? Do some on here find that funny? Is it funny to wonder about the sex stuff? Ok, have at it I guess. My daughter loves a person, but, yeah, fuck off and die trans people. Are trans people of such power in this world that going after them is just leveling the score, really? Is that it? Because I have mostly missed that, I guess. Anyway, how brave of Dave. Good on him, for putting groups that are absolutely discriminated against in their place. Maybe the Republican legislators trying to LITERALLY ALLOW DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE LBGTQ COMMUNITY can have Chapelle in to tell the jokes and they can all laugh together.

But, okey dokey.

[brian]

Because it's a fucking stand up comedy show and he's a stand up comedian? He isn't something more like a politician, school teacher, or public servant who has to have his identity simultaneously be a picture perfect American with upstanding morals.

Because the internet mob wants to consistently topple people for previous wrong doings or not doing things that confirm to their current delicate personalities?

Do people like you seriously expect Dave Chappelle to become Ta-nihisi Coats, the stand up philosopher-comedian? Do you want revelatory orations of deep rooted eureka from the guy that said "Fuck Yo' Couch," dresses up in white face to make jokes about white people, and made the "Piss On You" parody?

Seriously. As if off color jokes told by comedians will ever stop. So living in "It's year [X]! How dare you says things about [Y]!" is a fool's errand and always has been.

If the jokes fall flat for you, fine. Your opinion, your preferences. But to pearl clutch, say "How dare you!", and then act like you are above it all while simultaneously castigate those who enjoy it, it's disingenuous.

So basically your argument is trans jokes are OK. Just curious what other groups are OK to target for mean-spirited jokes as well?

I don't want to get into a comedy debate, but comedy is funny when it speaks truth to power. Just because a comedian is black and is able to speak truth to power more eloquently about something like race doesn't mean that they can't problematic in other ways. Christ, just look at Eddie Murphy Raw -- it's borderline unwatchable now because it's hateful - legitimately hateful -- towards gays and women. That doesn't mean that Raw wasn't funny or groundbreaking when it came out or that Eddie Murphy specifically is horrible.

But if Eddie Murphy came out in 2019 and did the same set, it would be. Do you get the difference?

[brian]

OK, let's live post this new Chapelle special. Almost his first bit is complaining about how audiences are "too sensitive". Not a great start. (The very first bit about how messed up it was for Anthony Bourdain to kill himself when his life was so awesome to the outside world was admittedly pretty good.)

[Johnnie]

All jokes about all things are always on the table. Doesn't matter the group. Doesn't matter the comedian telling it. Doesn't matter if it is mean spirited.

What matters is joke construction, delivery, and cleverness. To say "jokes about [X] are not allowed" is bullshit.

This back and forth reminds me of Jim Norton arguing with feminist Lindy West about making offensive jokes -- and rape jokes in particular. She's dying on the hill that none of them are ok and that none of them are funny. Ok, fine.

But you know what happens? She unwittingly makes a funny rape joke.



And maybe we'll find out about Eddie Murphy. He's hosting SNL soon. Sure he cannot do Raw today. The jokes aren't refined enough to be taken by today's audiences. But he could surely take the same content and rework it to still be funny whole being clever.

[brian]

Next bit is complaining about how child molester Michael Jackson got a raw deal. Really fucking hilarious stuff here. Groundbreaking to defend child molestors.

[brian]

All jokes about all things are always on the table. Doesn't matter the group. Doesn't matter the comedian telling it. Doesn't matter if it is mean spirited.

What matters is joke construction, delivery, and cleverness. To say "jokes about [X] are not allowed" is bullshit.

This back and forth reminds me of Jim Norton arguing with feminist Lindy West about making offensive jokes -- and rape jokes in particular. She's dying on the hill that none of them are ok and that none of them are funny. Ok, fine.

But you know what happens? She unwittingly makes a funny rape joke.



And maybe we'll find out about Eddie Murphy. He's hosting SNL soon. Sure he cannot do Raw today. The jokes aren't refined enough to be taken by today's audiences. But he could surely take the same content and rework it to still be funny whole being clever.

Where did I say jokes about trans people aren't allowed? But if the joke is "oh man, trans people are fucking gross" that's not a "joke".

[Giff]

How is demanding people shut up about jokes any different from people telling offensive joke tellers to shut up? It's a free fucking country. If these people want use their free speech to tell offensive jokes, they have to understand that many people will not like it and they'll use their free speech rights to say so.

[brian]

He's now talking about how great it must have been for the kids Jackson raped. Child rape is ALWAYS funny.

[Giff]

Next bit is complaining about how child molester Michael Jackson got a raw deal. Really fucking hilarious stuff here. Groundbreaking to defend child molestors.

How dare you criticize a comedian brian. They have more freedom of speech than you have.

[brian]

Complaining about Kevin Hart not getting to host the Oscars now because of his homophobia. Just a litany of complaints more or less, so far. Just like a Trump rally.

[teeteebee]

How is demanding people shut up about jokes any different from people telling offensive joke tellers to shut up? It's a free fucking country. If these people want use their free speech to tell offensive jokes, they have to understand that many people will not like it and they'll use their free speech rights to say so.

No argument here. It’s all opinion and viewpoint.

[teeteebee]

Complaining about Kevin Hart not getting to host the Oscars now because of his homophobia. Just a litany of complaints more or less, so far. Just like a Trump rally.

From 15 years ago? Have you grown in 15 years?

[brian]

Complaining that he couldn't use the word "faggot" on Chapelle's Show now, making an explicit point to yell the word "FAGGOT" as loud as possible. Definitely not a homophobe though.

[teeteebee]

Complaining that he couldn't use the word "faggot" on Chapelle's Show now, making an explicit point to yell the word "FAGGOT" as loud as possible. Definitely not a homophobe though.

His setup his impeccable. Wait for it...

[brian]

Calls the LGTBQ community now the "alphabet people" and insists that they're more powerful than him and persecuting him. Getting ready to really make fun of trans people now.

[teeteebee]

Calls the LGTBQ community now the "alphabet people" and insists that they're more powerful than him and persecuting him. Getting ready to really make fun of trans people now.

Look at you putting the Ts before the Bs. Watch out. Might get in trouble for that one!

[brian]

Pretty astute observation that white male gays help navigate through the biases of the rest of society since they are the ones who led the persecution of other ethnicities in the past.

[Johnnie]

Dave missed "I" and "A."

[brian]

Using the fact that it's "just funny" that someone could be born a gender they don't associate with to make a "joke" about if he had been born black but identified as Chinese to use a ridiculous Asian accent.

[brian]

Now an old trope about sports, scaring people that a trans woman who was born a man (like LeBron James) would dominate the WNBA. Tells trans people to "shut the fuck up" instead of worrying about equality.

[brian]

Complaining about "Me Too" now and insisting Louis CK got a raw deal for committing sexual assault. No big deal according to Chapelle though. "What is the threat?" A complete disregard for the power dynamic with female inferiors.