Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:17 pm

On abortion: "If you have a dick, you need to shut the fuck up about this one." (Agreed, though he uses that to say that if he impregnates a woman and she doesn't get an abortion, he shouldn't have to pay child support.)
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by teeteebee » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:19 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:08 pm
Dave missed "I" and "A."
Hard to keep up, Johnnie. Whatever Is and As are, I’m sure there is some below the surface anger. It will emerge eventually. Just wait...

Saw somewhere there’s a plus sign as well.
oh shit...

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by A_B » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm

teeteebee wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:19 pm
Johnnie wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:08 pm
Dave missed "I" and "A."
Hard to keep up, Johnnie. Whatever Is and As are, I’m sure there is some below the surface anger. It will emerge eventually. Just wait...

Saw somewhere there’s a plus sign as well.
You're really showing your ass here.
The wife just accidentally called you. “Accidentally”. Sorry

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm

Bit about his kid having "duck grease" instead of "chicken grease" is pretty funny though. Segues somehow into a school shooting bit where he insists his kids are going to be a target because he's famous though. Chapelle's narcissism really is Trumpian.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by teeteebee » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm

A_B wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm
teeteebee wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:19 pm
Johnnie wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:08 pm
Dave missed "I" and "A."
Hard to keep up, Johnnie. Whatever Is and As are, I’m sure there is some below the surface anger. It will emerge eventually. Just wait...

Saw somewhere there’s a plus sign as well.
You're really showing your ass here.
Comedy. Can’t take it seriously.
oh shit...

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:23 pm

"Shooting up schools is a white kid's game." He's right on that one.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by A_B » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:23 pm

teeteebee wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm
A_B wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm
teeteebee wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:19 pm
Johnnie wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:08 pm
Dave missed "I" and "A."
Hard to keep up, Johnnie. Whatever Is and As are, I’m sure there is some below the surface anger. It will emerge eventually. Just wait...

Saw somewhere there’s a plus sign as well.
You're really showing your ass here.
Comedy. Can’t take it seriously.
Oh, I don't give a fuck about your opinions on comedy. But your dismissal with your "hard to keep up" line tells me a lot about you, and it isn't comedy, it's likely part of who you are.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 pm

"I don't see any way to disarm America's whites." (Big applause, deserved.)

Good bit about how African-Americans need to help save the United States by registering to own a gun. "Only way they'll change the laws."

Not an original bit, but funny.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:30 pm

Bit about the opioid/heroin epidemic in America, specifically Ohio, where he lives. "It's as bad as they say."

"White folks look exactly like us during the crack epidemic. We're getting a really good luck at each other. I know how they must have felt looking at black people during the scourge of crack, because I don't care either. Hang in there, whites. Just say no, what's so hard about that."

See, this is a pretty funny bit and shows that you even can punch down a little to make a good joke/observation. (Making fun of heroin addicts...not so funny on its own. Using it as a hook to make a joke about how white America mostly didn't care about the crack epidemic is funny though.)
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by teeteebee » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:32 pm

A_B wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:23 pm
teeteebee wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm
A_B wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 pm
teeteebee wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:19 pm
Johnnie wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:08 pm
Dave missed "I" and "A."
Hard to keep up, Johnnie. Whatever Is and As are, I’m sure there is some below the surface anger. It will emerge eventually. Just wait...

Saw somewhere there’s a plus sign as well.
You're really showing your ass here.
Comedy. Can’t take it seriously.
Oh, I don't give a fuck about your opinions on comedy. But your dismissal with your "hard to keep up" line tells me a lot about you, and it isn't comedy, it's likely part of who you are.
Wow - ok. That response was to make a joke of the conversation.

As for who I am, I have friends that are same sex couples and some are married. Some have kids conceived while married. One child is my godson.

I don’t have any friends that are Ts nor do I know any personally. With that said, my comment above was tongue in cheek.

As for the new Chappelle routine - when he brought up the similarities between crack and the heroin epidemic and how they impacted the respective races - not that it’s profound - but it’s something I noticed before.

I have friends I grew up with that fell victim to heroin. Literally lost their lives. But I would never say that’s not something that can not be joked about in a comedy routine.
oh shit...

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Joe K » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:33 pm

I loved Chapelle’s TV show and think he’s great on race issues. But I’ll echo what others have said and observe that’d I’d be a lot more concerned about people having to “walk on eggshells” when telling jokes about trans people if trans people didn’t have to walk on eggshells to avoid getting violently assaulted and murdered at grossly disproportionate rates.

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:34 pm

Bit about buying ammo isn't bad either.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:42 pm

Jussie Smollett (sp?) bit. Claims he wasn't supported by black community not because he was gay, but because he was clearly lying.

Claims MAGA turds don't watch Empire so was pretty clearly a scam. Pretty decent bit really. Even gets in a dig at Kanye supporting Trump.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:52 pm

It's obvious Chapelle still has the capacity to be funny, but it's equally obvious he doesn't really have any interest in growing as a human being and admitting that he's not being persecuted for his comedy and the LGBTQ community might have a legitimate beef with some of his bits.

I'd say it's true this latest special isn't as homophobic and transphobic as his previous two Netflix specials, but it's still troublingly transphobic and homophobic in general, mostly because he clearly doesn't feel like he's ever done anything wrong.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

It's also interesting to me that one of the reasons he pretty clearly lashes out at LGTBQ people in his bits is he perceives them as having some kind of power over him, which chafes him. The whole point of yelling "FAGGOT" when he talks about how standards and practices at Comedy Central wouldn't let him say that word on his show is a pretty big tell. In this sense, he's no different than a white, Republican politician who prescribes some kind of huge political power in the gay community that doesn't really exist.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by tennbengal » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Joe K wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:33 pm
I loved Chapelle’s TV show and think he’s great on race issues. But I’ll echo what others have said and observe that’d I’d be a lot more concerned about people having to “walk on eggshells” when telling jokes about trans people if trans people didn’t have to walk on eggshells to avoid getting violently assaulted and murdered at grossly disproportionate rates.
Said way better than I did. Thanks.

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:37 pm

brian wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm
The whole point of yelling "FAGGOT" when he talks about how standards and practices at Comedy Central wouldn't let him say that word on his show is a pretty big tell. In this sense, he's no different than a white, Republican politician who prescribes some kind of huge political power in the gay community that doesn't really exist.
THIS is what I've been waiting to see being brought up as I caught up here. There are so many similarities.

I listen to a podcast of a guy that is on terrestrial radio as his main gig. He can be flat out hilarious. But he can also be fairly insufferable, decrying the state of being a persecuted white guy in today's PC, Me Too environment.

But what strikes me about him is that he often sees these issues in almost the exact same way a person on the left would: "They" are engaging in whataboutism. "They" love free speech, unless it's something they disagree with. And on and on.

Honestly, if we could get everyone in the same room and just force them to look at how each side is talking about shit, in the moment... Yeah, a lot of people would stay in their silos, but I think a lot of people would be blown away by how outrageous they are being.

=-=-=-=-=

Anyways, I haven't seen the latest Chapelle, but my overall observation with comedy is that borderline/taboo stuff is funny when it's not personal. Making a really astute observation about the Trans community is fine, unless you're coming from a place of feeling like YOU'RE being persecuted and now you're "fighting back."

That's a shitty look. Period.

But I'm with the general comedian community in saying nothing is off the table. With that said, you tread on that ground, your shit better be tight. Just throwing around insults to groups that are persecuted or on the end of nasty, bigoted, violent tendencies comes with a HUGE bag of "You better stick the landing, my friend."

And I just don't think that's possible if you're coming at from a personal, woe is me perspective.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Johnnie » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:44 pm

In more stand up news, Pete Davidson is in trouble over this:



Of course the UCF spokesperson is saddened by his words.
Mr. Davidson’s abusive language, particularly his use of a derogatory slur, is contrary to the University of Central Florida’s values of inclusion and respect for all,” said Schlueb. “It’s disappointing that his rant spoiled an event that was meant to welcome students back for the fall semester.
Or, you know, you could be mad at your students for filming when they weren't supposed to.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by A_B » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Because...pics or it didn't happen?
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:53 pm

Honestly, that's a pretty good instructive example of what I'm talking about with Chapelle tbh.

I think we've mostly agreed as a society that the word Davidson used is verboten. You can hate or reject that if you want, but if you continue to use the word then YOU are the asshole, not society. (I'm using the royal "you" here, Johnnie.) He evenly specifically acknowledged that he knows the word is hurtful and used it anyway.

All that said, I used it a lot when I was younger, but because my brain isn't trapped in amber I've been able to adjust my language to not use it any more. It's really not that fucking hard. Chapelle sees this w/r/t the LGBTQ community and somehow perceives it as an offense against him somehow.

To be funny, comedy usually needs to be really close to that third rail and like someone said the best ones are able to get sooooooo close without even touching it. That's the dance and that's the unspoken agreement we have when we go see a comedian or watch a show on Netflix or HBO. I can even give a pass to a guy for a one-off bit that I didn't/don't think is especially funny or potentially hurtful if the person has shown in the past that generally speaking they "get it". (David Cross is a guy who for me has crossed that line once or twice.)

What sucks is when you get a guy who for whatever reason doesn't really have any interest in adjusting his behavior or mindset.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:24 pm

(Another guy who is really insufferably bad in this regard even though he doesn't do any "edgy" or political bits is Jerry Seinfeld. When you see Seinfeld talking in public, on his Netflix show or in his stand-up, it's mostly just complaints about how the world is "too PC", but what he's really saying is that he fossilized his attitudes in 1995 and he's not really interested in growing up at all.)
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by BSF21 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:42 pm

brian wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:24 pm
(Another guy who is really insufferably bad in this regard even though he doesn't do any "edgy" or political bits is Jerry Seinfeld. When you see Seinfeld talking in public, on his Netflix show or in his stand-up, it's mostly just complaints about how the world is "too PC", but what he's really saying is that he fossilized his attitudes in 1995 and he's not really interested in growing up at all.)
To jump in to that point though, Seinfeld is a pretty good example of what's OK and what's not when it comes to being stuck in your ways. He's never come across to me as homophobic or racist in the first place. You can feel like some things are "too PC" (because some things flat out are), but still not be a general dick to people.

I think this comes off in the LGBTQ conversation where some people honestly don't care who you see or love or fuck. And I mean that literally. They don't care about you or the nomenclature, they just want to leave you alone about it. Then when they make an effort, they get chastised because it's a moving target, which hardens that feeling further.

"I said faggot when we were kids and it was fine" is not acceptable. "I just don't care enough to learn all the moving targets so I'm going to shut up about it" is far less hurtful. I hope that makes sense?
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:21 pm

I think that's a good point. Saying nothing is an option as well, basically, is what you're saying?

I think it's fair to point out that some/most of us in the Swamp are starting to get to the age where it's realistic to point out that society in some respects is passing us by. (Some of you like BSF are a little younger than most of us -- for most of us, I think at least 50 percent of us are in that "41-49" age range, maybe more than 50 percent. Some of you a little younger, some a little older, but we're basically all in the same ballpark at this point.)

We broach it here when we talk about music, movies and other pop culture stuff sometimes, but there's a political element to it as well. If the president was someone other than a really old bigot it might actually be more pronounced here, but there is the sense that you don't really understand the generations after you as they start to achieve financial, political and social power. It's probably fair to point out for a lot of us, we might not be as strong of an ally to certain causes if the necessity hadn't been forced on us.

I was really thinking about this after watching a really good PBS documentary about slavery over the last couple of days and that basically the entire history of the United States -- literally up to this moment! -- has been an abdication on the part of "white" Americans to wrestle with the morality of slavery. Americans in 1776 and 1787 knew slavery was wrong, but didn't make an effort to free blacks in the Declaration of Independence or Constitution because it was politically expedient to preserve the status of blacks as second-class citizens, essentially to not arouse the passions of the most bigoted members of our society.

Almost everything we've done since then as a nation is reflected through that prism -- we eventually fought a Civil War over slavery, but only once the political and financial power of the bigots became so great that no other choices were left. Once that battle was won, when it became politically expedient, blacks were relegated again to second-class citizenship in the compromise of 1876. That lasted for almost a century until the social and political power of the black population again forced a reset of the terms of their enslavement with the civil rights bills of the 1960s. The bigots are still pushing back from that to this day with the use of racial gerrymandering and voter suppression through a variety of techniques.

The point of all that is I didn't learn ANYTHING of any real utility about the truth of our nation's true history in school and at a certain point, it becomes too late to try and teach someone something different if it doesn't correspond to what they learned as part of their upbringing. We become set in our ways -- it's a natural, understandable part of the aging process. We have numerous idioms related to it -- "can't teach an old dog new tricks", "set in his ways".

And being able to see the world now through that racial construct hopefully allows me to see the rest of society's ills in a different light as well. I hope this doesn't sound like me talking about my own "wokeness" -- that's honestly not the point at all. I guess the point is that we can't stand still. The advancement of society demands that we continuously try to absorb new ideas, new viewpoints, new ways of looking at things. There's a range of voices - black, gay, transgender, Asian and others -- that we didn't have access to even 25 years ago and it seems so silly to not want to hear the way they experience our society.

Naturally, some of their experiences are not going to match ours as (mostly) white men and it's important that we don't take that confrontationally and try to absorb the lessons.

All that is to say that I think the biggest issue with Dave Chapelle isn't that he's probably a bit of a bigot, it's that he's rich and his entitlement as a rich person has led him to believe that he's right and the rest of the country that isn't as rich as him is wrong. So it's time to fucking soak the rich, you guys.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:46 pm

That's some righteous shit, right there.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by brian » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:21 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:46 pm
That's some righteous shit, right there.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by BSF21 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:44 am

BSF21 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:42 pm
brian wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:24 pm
(Another guy who is really insufferably bad in this regard even though he doesn't do any "edgy" or political bits is Jerry Seinfeld. When you see Seinfeld talking in public, on his Netflix show or in his stand-up, it's mostly just complaints about how the world is "too PC", but what he's really saying is that he fossilized his attitudes in 1995 and he's not really interested in growing up at all.)
To jump in to that point though, Seinfeld is a pretty good example of what's OK and what's not when it comes to being stuck in your ways. He's never come across to me as homophobic or racist in the first place. You can feel like some things are "too PC" (because some things flat out are), but still not be a general dick to people.

I think this comes off in the LGBTQ conversation where some people honestly don't care who you see or love or fuck. And I mean that literally. They don't care about you or the nomenclature, they just want to leave you alone about it. Then when they make an effort, they get chastised because it's a moving target, which hardens that feeling further.

"I said faggot when we were kids and it was fine" is not acceptable. "I just don't care enough to learn all the moving targets so I'm going to shut up about it" is far less hurtful. I hope that makes sense?
This came across reddit this morning and while certainly not getting to the heart of racism or homophobia, is a nice indication of who Jerry seems to be and a bit of an indictment on what we expect from celebrity, be it accessibility or wokeness or whatever. The guy even calls him out on it and he says "I don't know who that is". Imagine if the roles were reversed and Kesha was being interviewed. Just food for thought.

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by L-Jam3 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:19 am

Wait... so people are castigating Jerry for rejecting a hug from an abject stranger?
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by mister d » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:25 am

Chappelle: "You know who I wish I could fuck? (Lists out all the children killed at Sandy Hook by name.)"

Fans: "He's a comedian. This is very good."
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Ryan » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:51 am

L-Jam3 wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:19 am
Wait... so people are castigating Jerry for rejecting a hug from an abject stranger?
Yeah people got really mad at that. ON BOTH SIDES.

I doubt he hugs his wife. It's a thing.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Jerloma » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:54 am

We have numerous idioms related to it -- "can't teach an old dog new tricks", "set in his ways".
"Nazis gonna Nazi."

I hear what you're saying and I struggle with it mightily because I don't think we have free will. That is to say we're not separate from our brain...we are our brain and therefore everything we are is just a product of how our brain interprets our experiences and observations up to that point. There's no good; no evil...just DNA.

But at the same time...I can't live my life that way. Like I don't think it's Mitch McConnell's fault that he's a horrible piece of shit, but I still can't exonerate him from it.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by teeteebee » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:07 am

mister d wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:25 am
Chappelle: "You know who I wish I could fuck? (Lists out all the children killed at Sandy Hook by name.)"

Fans: "He's a comedian. This is very good."
Not even close to an equal comparison.

I think folks need to watch the show then discuss it. Can’t just take the hot takes and run with it.

Brian found many good parts and his woke ass predictably, and primarily, loved when the white man was getting the ass end of the joke. FWIW, those parts were funny - no doubt about it.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by mister d » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:35 am

Not equal because we both agree Sandy Hook kids are out-of-bounds whereas we don't agree on the trans community and various slurs that were commonplace when Chappelle came up but aren't now or is it something super deep where I just can't understand why This Is Different(tm)?
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by mister d » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:37 am

teeteebee wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:07 am
Brian found many good parts and his woke ass predictably, and primarily, loved when the white man was getting the ass end of the joke. FWIW, those parts were funny - no doubt about it.
Because of the direction. If you can't accept a starting point that some jokes are fine if A->B and not if B->A, we'll never agree here.
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by teeteebee » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:53 am

mister d wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:35 am
Not equal because we both agree Sandy Hook kids are out-of-bounds whereas we don't agree on the trans community and various slurs that were commonplace when Chappelle came up but aren't now or is it something super deep where I just can't understand why This Is Different(tm)?
Brian never looped in the point of him saying F* over and over. He setup the point that it was ok for him to say N*. When the authority for Comedy Central said well you’re not gay. He said well I’m not a N* either. You need to have the full context to get why he was saying F*. It was not gratuitous and said just to say it. Just like the jokes about Ts, it was part of a broader point.

Unlike a one liner about a specific catastrophe.
oh shit...

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mister d
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by mister d » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:24 am

I fail to see how there's a broader point than a comedy central producer stepped in shit. Slurs aren't for the unaffected to throw around, for comedy or otherwise.



(I don't doubt Chappelle could make what appears to be a compelling case because Chappelle is really smart. Being smart and being great with words often gets conflated with being right.)
rass wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:20 am
I'm definitely known as "the boy who cried penis" in town.

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Johnny Carwash
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Johnny Carwash » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 am

So when are we going to do this about TT?
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mister d
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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by mister d » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 am

2005 - present?



(Actually, that's not true. It'll be dates looking closer to FDR's presidency.)
rass wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:20 am
I'm definitely known as "the boy who cried penis" in town.

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Jerloma » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:42 am

I went to a fundraiser/comedy thing a couple of weeks ago and one of the comics (this guy) made that same joke about there being worse people you could be molested by than Michael Jackson.
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. - God

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by Johnnie » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:31 pm

I can feel the pre-triggering here already.

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Re: Comedy...stand-up and otherwise...

Post by teeteebee » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:28 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:31 pm
I can feel the pre-triggering here already.

Sign me up for that. Bill Burr is a beast. Ever since my commute was cut in more than half, I’ve only listened to his 2x a week pods on occasion. Time to start listening to his pods again.
oh shit...

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