Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Okay . . . let's try this again.

Moderators: Shirley, Sabo, brian, rass, DaveInSeattle

What should AB do?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:47 am

Call the driver in
10
83%
Chill out
2
17%
 
Total votes: 12

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Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

OK, so I know I am totally overthinking this.

The backdrop - I live in a pretty standard suburbia neighborhood. 25 MPH speed limits, regular stop signs, etc. The people in my neighborhood are NOTORIOUS for not stopping at stop signs. So much so that it has become a real pet peeve of mine. There is one lady who leaves at the same time as I do on the days I take my younger daughter to work and probably fifty percent of the days I see her running a 4 way stop sign with blatant disregard, but it isn't like she's the only one. I've had to hit my brakes after entering the intersection because people come up fast and, while they end up stopping because they see that I am moving (AFTER STOPPING!) they look at me like I have really ruined their day.

I have a daughter that will be driving this fall, so I get to use it as a real teaching moment, but that's not the point.

The situation - Today I am driving up the road towards the 4-way stop mentioned above. I see a FTSB bus - this is for veterans, people on welfare, medicaid, etc to be able to get to work or appointments - never even come close to stopping while making a right turn. I am going straight anyway, which is the direction he turned. So I am behind him and he RUNS ANOTHER without even slowing down less than 1/4 mile away.

The conundrum - This guy has a phone number and bus number on his vehicle. I can call and report this guy. Now, on the one hand he deserves it because he's driving like a crazy person in a residential neighborhood with a pretty full bus. I get that there's a possibility that he's behind and trying to get back on schedule. To which I say - so what? Shit happens. The other hand says, if I call him in am I taking out my frustration with ALL the drivers who run stop signs in the neighborhood on the one who happens to be accountable?

I certainly don't want him to lose a job, of course, but I sure wouldn't mind it if his boss yelled at him. Dude is a professional driver, who presumably is on the road more than most people and therefore stands to benefit more than others by people following road rules. But I also don't want to take it out on this guy just because I have a pet peeve. An illegal (admittedly minor in the grand scheme) pet peeve but a pet peeve nonetheless.


What say the swamp? Call him in or chill the fuck out?
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Johnny Carwash »

I'm in the "chill the fuck out" camp. I get your frustration, but I'm averse to taking a course of action that might result in someone losing their job.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Ryan »

I would absolutely, 100%, without hesitation, every single time, want somebody else to report the shit out of him.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by govmentchedda »

Call. No question.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Sabo »

govmentchedda wrote:Call. No question.
This. Imagine the regret you would feel if this bus driver hit someone and killed them because they ran a stop sign.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by rass »

We have this weird intersection at the end of our street (don't want to hijack the thread or else I would MS Paint a diagram) and people run the stop signs all of the time. I've gotten in arguments with people in the middle of the street after yelling at them while walking the dog. Though after catching myself almost cursing out a couple of neighbors we're friendly with (recognized the cars just in time) I'm biting my tongue a little more these days and will just slowly cross the street in front of them if I'm feeling combative.

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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by BSF21 »

Depends. I roll the stops signs in my neighborhood, but not before slowing way down and ensure no one else is coming but it doesn't sound like that is the case here.

My line would be is he speeding/driving recklessly enough to endanger children in the area? If so, absolutely call. If it's just a missed sign, I'd let it roll and if you see him in the neighborhood again, flag him and tell him your predicament and that he might want to consider driving more carefully in your hood.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

BSF21 wrote:Depends. I roll the stops signs in my neighborhood, but not before slowing way down and ensure no one else is coming but it doesn't sound like that is the case here.

My line would be is he speeding/driving recklessly enough to endanger children in the area? If so, absolutely call. If it's just a missed sign, I'd let it roll and if you see him in the neighborhood again, flag him and tell him your predicament and that he might want to consider driving more carefully in your hood.

While it's not my favorite, rolling is different from blowing through without ever stopping. The black escalade lady rolls hard through and this bus driver made no attempts to stop today.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by The Sybian »

Ryan wrote:I would absolutely, 100%, without hesitation, every single time, want somebody else to report the shit out of him.
This. If he is blowing through fast enough to endanger others, you should call. I don't think I would, unless I became really pissed off. Yesterday driving to work at rush hour on a fairly busy road surrounded by corporate buildings, guy in front of me blows through a red light without even slowing down. My instinct was to hit the lights and siren and run him down. Then I realized I left the cruiser at home. Totally pissed me off, and really for no reason since there aren't any pedestrians.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

The Sybian wrote:
Ryan wrote:I would absolutely, 100%, without hesitation, every single time, want somebody else to report the shit out of him.
This. If he is blowing through fast enough to endanger others, you should call. I don't think I would, unless I became really pissed off. Yesterday driving to work at rush hour on a fairly busy road surrounded by corporate buildings, guy in front of me blows through a red light without even slowing down. My instinct was to hit the lights and siren and run him down. Then I realized I left the cruiser at home. Totally pissed me off, and really for no reason since there aren't any pedestrians.

While stop lights are probably different, I'm guessing that if the bus driver went through two stop signs in 1/4 mile, those weren't the only ones of the day.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Rex »

A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

Rex wrote:A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.

There is a cop that lives within eyeshot of the stop sign and his car is always parked on the street. But everyone knows he lives there.

To be honest this is a perfect street for a trap. My street is on the uphill and a cop could easily sit just back a bit and write tickets/warnings all day long. 90% of which would leave a soccer mom crying.

This is google street view of where a cop could sit and hit quota. The 4-way is dead ahead.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Ryan »

Make it about your concern for the veterans on the bus. Safest soapbox ever.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Pruitt »

A huge pet peeve of mine, I see people blow through stop signs in front of schools around here. Texting while cruising past a crossing guard etc.

Who cares if this guy loses his job if the way he is doing it is putting people in harm's way - both inside and outside of the bus?

A professional driver, driving like that? F him.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by rass »

A_B wrote:
Rex wrote:A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.

There is a cop that lives within eyeshot of the stop sign and his car is always parked on the street. But everyone knows he lives there.

To be honest this is a perfect street for a trap. My street is on the uphill and a cop could easily sit just back a bit and write tickets/warnings all day long. 90% of which would leave a soccer mom crying.

This is google street view of where a cop could sit and hit quota. The 4-way is dead ahead.
Your house is still a lot in Google street view.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

rass wrote:
A_B wrote:
Rex wrote:A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.

There is a cop that lives within eyeshot of the stop sign and his car is always parked on the street. But everyone knows he lives there.

To be honest this is a perfect street for a trap. My street is on the uphill and a cop could easily sit just back a bit and write tickets/warnings all day long. 90% of which would leave a soccer mom crying.

This is google street view of where a cop could sit and hit quota. The 4-way is dead ahead.
Your house is still a lot in Google street view.
Nope. Mine is on there. I live down that hill at an intersection (not the cul de sac.)

Here.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by rass »

A_B wrote:
rass wrote:
A_B wrote:
Rex wrote:A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.

There is a cop that lives within eyeshot of the stop sign and his car is always parked on the street. But everyone knows he lives there.

To be honest this is a perfect street for a trap. My street is on the uphill and a cop could easily sit just back a bit and write tickets/warnings all day long. 90% of which would leave a soccer mom crying.

This is google street view of where a cop could sit and hit quota. The 4-way is dead ahead.
Your house is still a lot in Google street view.
Nope. Mine is on there. I live down that hill at an intersection (not the cul de sac.)

Here.
Oh. Is this you, too?

I tried backing into it assuming your were on the street you posted above somewhere and then using the under construction photos you posted way back when.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

That's weird. Yeah, that Is my lot. Google is odd.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by BSF21 »

rass wrote:
A_B wrote:
rass wrote:
A_B wrote:
Rex wrote:A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.

There is a cop that lives within eyeshot of the stop sign and his car is always parked on the street. But everyone knows he lives there.

To be honest this is a perfect street for a trap. My street is on the uphill and a cop could easily sit just back a bit and write tickets/warnings all day long. 90% of which would leave a soccer mom crying.

This is google street view of where a cop could sit and hit quota. The 4-way is dead ahead.
Your house is still a lot in Google street view.
Nope. Mine is on there. I live down that hill at an intersection (not the cul de sac.)

Here.
Oh. Is this you, too?

I tried backing into it assuming your were on the street you posted above somewhere and then using the under construction photos you posted way back when.
Dammit, I was really hoping for an empty lot with AB in a lawn chair with a bottle of bourbon.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

I called it in. They thanked me. And probably promptly forgot about it.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Rex »

35 on a residential, yuck.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

Rex wrote:35 on a residential, yuck.
Yeah, that's the street that the neighborhood was kinda built around and didn't use to be much mroe than a cut through. It's too high for sure. It's actually 25 on the opposite side of that intersection as Lexington has 25 in all neighborhoods now, but I don't know why that one has 35 posted.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Rex »

As the neighborhood grows up, hopefully people will be vigilant about that. I live on a residential street that is a useful shortcut for commuters, and we had a long fight to bring it from 30 to 25.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

Rex wrote:As the neighborhood grows up, hopefully people will be vigilant about that. I live on a residential street that is a useful shortcut for commuters, and we had a long fight to bring it from 30 to 25.
That is definitely what that road is. The light that street ends up at to a main road has a LONG green-turn light so it is much easier to get onto the main drag form that than the other streets in the neighborhood.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by DSafetyGuy »

A_B wrote:
Rex wrote:A few months of heavy police ticketing would stop or at least seriously curb this for most people. It did for me. It sounds like calling might be a good thing to do but would not address the real problem which is nobody respecting traffic laws or the possibility of pedestrian activity.

There is a cop that lives within eyeshot of the stop sign and his car is always parked on the street. But everyone knows he lives there.

To be honest this is a perfect street for a trap. My street is on the uphill and a cop could easily sit just back a bit and write tickets/warnings all day long. 90% of which would leave a soccer mom crying.

This is google street view of where a cop could sit and hit quota. The 4-way is dead ahead.
I'd see if that officer could arrange for a trap, at least for a while.

There is a trap that appears about once a month, maybe a little more often, near my son's day care. The police car sits about 40 yards up a hill at a four-way stop and is hard to see until you are right on the intersection. The officer can't be doing anything other than looking for people rolling that stop in a residential area. That rare presence ensures I don't roll that stop and I don't recall others doing it that often.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by brian »

Stop signs, red lights, traffic lanes, speed limits. Those are all mere notions around here. It's like driving in Bombay or Bangkok or some shit at times. I had a dude on a motorcycle yesterday go around me on the left in the opposing lane as I was making a right turn to get ahead of me at a stop sign as opposed to waiting 5 seconds to turn right.

Scariest part is I've seen people do the same thing in cars before.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by sancarlos »

Call it in. No question.

Do you remember the old Robin Williams movie, The World According to Garp? In the film, He chases - on foot - a crazy driver, for a block or two. To yell at him for unsafe driving, with kids around. I didn't think much of it at the time, but after I had a daughter, I could completely identify with his rage at the driver. You might save a life by straightening out one driver.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by DaveInSeattle »

Report him. He's driving a bus for god's sake.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Moreta »

Report him to the number on the truck for sure (well done). He's unlikely to be fired for a single complaint with no evidence, but you don't know what his record looks like. Also, call the non emergency number for your local police department and ask to speak with whoever would coordinate long term efforts to curb a traffic problem. Tell the po-po about the stop sign issue.

It isn't unreasonable to expect people to follow the laws and take action when they don't.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by The Sybian »

Bring it up at the next town council meeting. You'll feel good about yourself since you will be the youngest citizen in the room by 30 years.

So police officers in your town get to take their cruisers home?

What's with the balloons on the mailbox?
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by P.D.X. »

You could make a general complaint to the bus company without identifying the individual.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by A_B »

The Sybian wrote:Bring it up at the next town council meeting. You'll feel good about yourself since you will be the youngest citizen in the room by 30 years.

So police officers in your town get to take their cruisers home?

What's with the balloons on the mailbox?
Yes, they all take the cruisers home. Or at least a lot do. Maybe you have to have been on the force a certain length of time.

And clearly the google car drove through in late November of last year because those were there to signal the house for daughter's sleepover birthday party.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by howard »

Who knows? Maybe, you were kidnapped, tied up, taken away and held for ransom.

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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Giff »

I don't say this enough, but I love you howard.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Interesting/timely topic for me. I live in a spot that basically is divided into 4 or 5 neighborhoods with their own respective HOAs. One of the HOAs is a) the longest standing group, b) comprised of the nicer homes*, and c) notorious busy-body, NIMBY, cranks.

At any rate, our neighborhood has always been a cut through, but they built a Parkway and did some other things to accommodate development over the last few years and it has really increased traffic in our overall 'hood. Well, the Luxamanor people have been losing their collective shit, and this week word on the listserv came down that they had convinced the County to set up some speed and stop sign traps.

There's a lot of bitching from other sub-neighborhood groups... But I say fuck that. I'm with AB and the rest of you guys... I'm not exactly a lead foot, but I drive at pace on highways and on major streets. But once you get into someone's residential space, slow the fuck down.

People routinely blow through stop signs. And while blowing through a stop sign making right turn is ridiculous, it's the people that plow through a 4 way at 30 MPH that just boggle my mind. I guess hitting a kid riding a bike while crossing that intersection in front of you will convince you how horrible that is?

I can shave 5-10 minutes off my commute by cranking up the MPH on the highway. I can shave 10-15 seconds blowing through stop signs. The risk-reward is just off the charts stupid with those people.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by bfj »

Report him AND call the cops to set up the trap. Thanks for your service.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by The Sybian »

Giff wrote:I don't say this enough, but I love you howard.
That's Cleveland, not Howard.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Steve of phpBB »

Everyone's a libertarian until someone else drives over the speed limit.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by Rex »

Steve of phpBB wrote:Everyone's a libertarian until someone else drives over the speed limit.
People are going to lose their shit when they get in a driverless car and it observes all traffic laws.
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Re: Swamp Ethics Court - AB Vs. The Bus Driver

Post by The Sybian »

Driving on residential road today, a double yellow road, but not very busy, I stop behind 2 or 3 cars at a stop sign as the lead car is waiting to turn. I was stopped for a good 20 seconds when I heard loud tires screeching coming towards me. Look in the rearview, see the car barreling towards me stop just in time, with a cloud of burnt rubber. The guy had to be going way above the speed limit, and not paying attention to road for quite some time, as it was flat and straight.
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