The Swamp

mister d wrote:

sancarlos wrote:The fact that such a high percentage of Las Vegas residents are natives of a different city probably has something to do with their knowledge of hockey. Cities with transient populations are going to attract knowledgeable fans who are excited to have hockey back into their lives. I think it is/was the same way in San Jose.

How do we explain Phoenix?

I've never been to a game in Glendale. Are they not knowledgeable hockey fans?

I think a good portion of the inability to draw fans there is that the location of the arena is very inconvenient travel-wise for a large part of the metro population.

No idea, I was going from the "transient population equals sustainability" in non-traditional markets.



(I do think Vegas succeeds long term, but because of tourism, not locals.)

brian wrote:I really doubt the Raiders are going to be welcomed and adopted in the same way.

That will be interesting. I wonder if there will be a culture clash when the locals see what classless louts are the out-of-town Raider fans who come in for the games.

mister d wrote:No idea, I was going from the "transient population equals sustainability" in non-traditional markets.



(I do think Vegas succeeds long term, but because of tourism, not locals.)

Yeah, the team will always be financial successful if nothing else. I'd like to get to a point where enough locals embrace it so that on the worst night it's 80/20 local to opposing fans, but it'll take awhile to get there.

sancarlos wrote:

brian wrote:I really doubt the Raiders are going to be welcomed and adopted in the same way.

That will be interesting. I wonder if there will be a culture clash when the locals see what classless louts are the out-of-town Raider fans who come in for the games.

Perhaps. There's already enough Raider fans in Las Vegas that I don't think it will come as much surprise to most people though.

I've been to the stadium in Glendale so I knew how far out it was, but when we flew in there on Sunday morning on our way home, it really stuck out just how far away it is from the downtown area.

mister d wrote:No idea, I was going from the "transient population equals sustainability" in non-traditional markets.

Having hockey fans in the area helps get the team off the ground for sure. But, they do need to get the locals behind the team, too. For example, the Sharks have done a lot of work to try to engage the San Jose hispanic population, and I think that has worked. "Los Tiburones" is a recognized local term for the team, and it's not uncommon to see the vato homeboys wearing Sharks regalia.

brian wrote:Yeah, the team will always be financial successful if nothing else. I'd like to get to a point where enough locals embrace it so that on the worst night it's 80/20 local to opposing fans, but it'll take awhile to get there.

I think there's going to be a very non-zero third slash in there of "we should check out a hockey game", both from people who are in non-hockey areas to people who are but want to see a new arena.

brian wrote:

sancarlos wrote:

brian wrote:I really doubt the Raiders are going to be welcomed and adopted in the same way.

That will be interesting. I wonder if there will be a culture clash when the locals see what classless louts are the out-of-town Raider fans who come in for the games.

Perhaps. There's already enough Raider fans in Las Vegas that I don't think it will come as much surprise to most people though.

I'm surprised by your first comment. Vegas already seemed like a Raider town, even before the team was on its way there. Plus, the NFL has way more fans. I'd bet they'll do fine there.

I still feel like the NFL is about to decline big time, but I doubt Vegas will be ahead of the league curve on that, UNLESS the next recession/depression hits you as hard as the last one did.

Oh, they'll sell the tickets and be successful, don't get me wrong. I just don't feel like your average Las Vegan is going to embrace the team and root for them, etc. The Raider fans already here will of course and they'll get some other people to come on board, but the reaction from the average person I meet is a hearty "who cares?" w/r/t to the Raiders. I'll go every 8 years when they play the Lions and that's about it.

mister d wrote:

brian wrote:Yeah, the team will always be financial successful if nothing else. I'd like to get to a point where enough locals embrace it so that on the worst night it's 80/20 local to opposing fans, but it'll take awhile to get there.

I think there's going to be a very non-zero third slash in there of "we should check out a hockey game", both from people who are in non-hockey areas to people who are but want to see a new arena.

I think another important factor is companies that buy season tickets so their sales guys can take clients to games. A lot of fans are born through that route. Vegas seems like a natural for that.

Giff wrote:I've been to the stadium in Glendale so I knew how far out it was, but when we flew in there on Sunday morning on our way home, it really stuck out just how far away it is from the downtown area.

I was going to mention that. I think the crowds were better when they were in downtown Phoenix, but they are out on the edge of civilization now. From the last house I lived in there, it would have been almost an hour and a half to the stadium/arena. And that's with no traffic.

Couple of points this morning:

Interesting to see some of the national NHL media acknowledge that the crowds at T-Mobile have been great to very great. And certainly not what you'd "expect" from an expansion team.

Wyshynski:

So let's reassess the Knights after this upcoming six-game road trip through the Eastern Conference, where they won't be playing in front of their incredible home fans

Kaplan:

The Knights played five of their first seven games at home, and after attending a game at T-Mobile Arena, I can attest: It's a helluva unique place to play. I'm not saying the glow-in-the-dark drumline and accents of Medieval Times are distracting to opposing players. Rather, it's been a very decent home crowd -- loud and more knowledgeable about hockey than I expected

I honestly didn't know what to expect going into the season. I could have believed just about anything. It's truly weird rooting for an expansion team in a hundred different ways you never think about if you root for a team that's been around for your entire life. Some of you have experienced it obviously. All of Detroit's teams are literally or essentially charter members of their leagues.

I think as the season drags on the home-ice advantage will wane a little, but I think by and large it should remain a pretty good atmosphere this season. From there, again all bets are off (no pun intended).

Second:

The Knights will be playing their fourth-string goalie against Chicago tomorrow (forget that Dansk was the "backup" to Subban -- the real third-stringer is/was Lagace, which is why he was in the AHL getting time on the ice. It's probably going to be a bloodbath. I haven't seen a line on the game yet, but I don't know that just about any line could convince me to not bet on the Blackhawks.

Yeah, that was really cool. That story about McMullans is pretty funny too. DSafe and I went there after a Wranglers playoff game one year and can confirm there's no way you wouldn't see at least a dozen hockey players there after a game.

Great article. As much as I wanted Engelland back as our #6, reading about how happy his wife and son were when they heard they he was going to play at 'home' makes it special he was able to sign with them.

That's like how I feel about Stepan going to Arizona, except the exact opposite because he didn't want to go and shouldn't have gone and now we're all fucked.

Pretty sure I would have guessed at least three years (if not longer) as opposed to three weeks for how long it would take to be ranked No. 1 in the (admittedly meaningless) NHL Power Rankings for VGK.

phxgators wrote:I was going to mention that. I think the crowds were better when they were in downtown Phoenix, but they are out on the edge of civilization now. From the last house I lived in there, it would have been almost an hour and a half to the stadium/arena. And that's with no traffic.

I must've missed this earlier. The Cardinals and Coyotes' stadiums are an hour an a half away from downtown? That's crazy. I get distances are different in the Northeast compared to the rest of the country, but I'm in downtown Philly right now, and 90 minutes away minimal traffic is the fucking Meadowlands. How much KY did Glendale use when they paid for these stadiums?

L-Jam3 wrote:

phxgators wrote:I was going to mention that. I think the crowds were better when they were in downtown Phoenix, but they are out on the edge of civilization now. From the last house I lived in there, it would have been almost an hour and a half to the stadium/arena. And that's with no traffic.

I must've missed this earlier. The Cardinals and Coyotes' stadiums are an hour an a half away from downtown? That's crazy. I get distances are different in the Northeast compared to the rest of the country, but I'm in downtown Philly right now, and 90 minutes away minimal traffic is the fucking Meadowlands. How much KY did Glendale use when they paid for these stadiums?

phx lived in the eastern part of the valley (though still in suburban Phoenix of course), but it is (on a good day) about 30 minutes from downtown PHX to where the football and hockey stadiums are. On a typical traffic day, it could easily be about 45 minutes to an hour from downtown and like phx was saying from where he lived, easily 80 to 90 minutes each way. Until you've spent time there it's hard to grasp how huge the Phoenix area is.

ETA: To clean up some time estimates.

Yep, I lived in the southeast part of Phoenix metro area, near where Chandler, Gilbert, and the reservation meet. And I should have said without *gameday* traffic. 90 minutes would be typical for workday traffic, with no traffic at all it would have been about an hour.

Like Brian said, Phoenix is really spread out. With nothing but desert around it, there's really been no incentive to build up, instead of out.

brian wrote:Yeah, that was really cool. That story about McMullans is pretty funny too. DSafe and I went there after a Wranglers playoff game one year and can confirm there's no way you wouldn't see at least a dozen hockey players there after a game.

That was one of the greatest nights of my life... seeing the "Giovanni Home Made Sausage" pickup truck in the Orleans parking lot, complete with the Nevada vanity plate "SAUSAGE" and the beeper number on the door.

Well, there you go...

https://twitter.com/JoshYohe_PGH/status ... 6169657346

(Their analytics, even adjusted, show the opposite.)

mister d wrote:(Their analytics, even adjusted, show the opposite.)

(I know (Sid is obviously smarter and obviously has access to better, super-secret stats))

This is officially ridiculous beyond words

That was a really random jinx

And it made no one happy. Great work.

My spies on the Strip are reporting a LOT of Manitobans around today. Gonna be plenty of Jets fans at T-Mobile tonight.

brian wrote:My spies on the Strip are reporting a LOT of Manitobans around today. Gonna be plenty of Jets fans at T-Mobile tonight.

Whenever the Sharks play a Canadian team, we see a shitton of opposition sweaters in the Tank.

Expansion draft grades through 1st quarter of the season.

This is probably more in-depth than most of you care about, but figured some of you might be interested in the opinion of the VGK fanbase on how bad your team got fleeced by GMGM. (Hint: Unless you're a Columbus fan, it's probably not too bad. For example, I'm sure Nashville fans would love to have Neal back, but good lord did Columbus get played.)

ETA: Should note the article above says VGK is eating Grabovski's contract under Columbus, but it's actually eating $15M over 3 years for Clarkson, but still that should never be an issue as far as the cap goes for these three years. Given that, the haul they got from Columbus is still ridiculous.

Before I read the article (which I will), didn't Florida get fleeced too?

govmentchedda wrote:Before I read the article (which I will), didn't Florida get fleeced too?

In a sense, but VGK gave up an asset (albeit only a fourth-rounder) for Reilly Smith in addition to Marchessault. Smith is the player VGK owes the most money to over the next four years (and if I remember right the ONLY guy on the roster under contract for 2020-21), so the jury's still out a bit, though based solely on production through 22 games, absolutely.

mister d wrote:(Their analytics, even adjusted, show the opposite.)

One other kinda crazy thing is that at the time MrD noted this it was absolutely true that VGK was one of the worst teams in the league from an advanced stats perspective, but somehow in the last four weeks they've even turned that around to be (at worst) towards the top of the middle of the pack. So maybe Sid was on to something.

brian wrote:

mister d wrote:(Their analytics, even adjusted, show the opposite.)

One other kinda crazy thing is that at the time MrD noted this it was absolutely true that VGK was one of the worst teams in the league from an advanced stats perspective, but somehow in the last four weeks they've even turned that around to be (at worst) towards the top of the middle of the pack. So maybe Sid was on to something.

Yeah, I watched them play San Jose the other day (Vegas won in OT), and they are an impressive team. I think a ton of credit goes to Gallant. Coach of the year so far for sure.

For all the American Vandal fans out there...

https://twitter.com/RyanHockeyGuy/statu ... 7156564992

https://twitter.com/wyshynski/status/937767076000944131

https://twitter.com/JesseGranger_/statu ... 3407579136

Hope he can make it back for the Pens game.

rass wrote:https://twitter.com/JesseGranger_/status/937384183407579136

Hope he can make it back for the Pens game.

Presumably that's the one they're aiming for.

Sportsbooks in Vegas have a LOT of liability if the Golden Knights make the playoffs.

Here's the money quote if you don't want to read:

“We get killed if they make the playoffs, and we close if they win the Stanley Cup,” William Hill sports book director Nick Bogdanovich said.

MAF activated from IR. Expected to start Tuesday and then Thursday against Pittsburgh.