The Ringer

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:38 pm

I don't follow Simmons enough to give a fuck, but here is the description in Keri's SI column:
Welcome to the fifth annual edition of my MLB Trade Value series. The premise of these columns is exactly that: If every player affiliated with an MLB organization at the big league and minor league level suddenly became available for trade, who would fetch the most in return? The most important deciding factor is skill (you won’t see any .185 hitters on this list), but the analysis delves much deeper than that. The player’s age is important; so, too, is his health record. Contract status is pivotal, since teams would pay the most for an elite, young player who can’t test free agency for several more years.
If this is the Fifth Annual, where were the prior ones published?
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Ryan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:41 pm

That would be Grantland
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:44 pm

Ryan wrote:That would be Grantland
Yeah, so there is a good chance Simmons has a point.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by brian » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:48 pm

By that logic, the first guy to ever do a mock NFL draft should be really pulling his hair out. Or the first guy to ever do a mailbag column, which Simmons stole from someone. It's a petty and idiotic thing, which is right in Simmons' wheelhouse.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by Ryan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:50 pm

As Rass alluded to, the format of the column itself, if not the idea of ranking guys in this particular way, is very specific. In fact, those intro paragraphs on the rules of the exercise are, I think, word-for-word and season-to-season copies of what Simmons did for basketball probably 15-20 years ago.

So with no insight as to the journalistic ethics and permission involved, it seems like a proprietary kind of thing to me. Of course, Simmons wins no court of public opinion verdicts by going after someone as universally liked as Keri in such a public and bitchy way.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Joe K » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:51 pm

brian wrote:By that logic, the first guy to ever do a mock NFL draft should be really pulling his hair out. Or the first guy to ever do a mailbag column, which Simmons stole from someone. It's a petty and idiotic thing, which is right in Simmons' wheelhouse.
Agreed. If some other media entity poaches Todd McShay from ESPN, and Mel Kiper bitches about him continuing to do mock drafts, everyone would point out how ridiculous Kiper was being. This really isn't any different in my mind.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by Ryan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:59 pm

For reference:

Simmons, 2001
NBA Trade Value Rules

1. Salaries matter. Would you rather be paying Shawn Marion $3 million for the next two years or Rasheed Wallace $40 million for the next three years?

2. Age matters… would you rather have Karl Malone for the next 3 years or Shawn Marion for the next 12?

3. Pretend the salary cap suddenly got expanded to $100 million per team and ask yourself one question: If Team A tells Team B, “We’ll give you Player X for Player Y,” does Team B do it or not?

4. Concentrate on degrees… for instance, neither Boston or Detroit would probably want a “Jerry Stackhouse for Paul Pierce trade,” but the Pistons would probably at least think about it, while the C’s would be thinking, “No f’n way!” That counts in the big scheme of things.

5. Make the list in reverse order, 25-to-1. That means if Rasheed Wallace ranks in at #16, players 1-thru-15 are all players about whom Portland would probably say, “We hate giving up ‘Sheed, but we can’t pass up that deal.” And they wouldn’t trade him for any of the players listed #17-25.
Keri, 2017
Before we get to the rankings, a quick look at the rules.

1. Contracts matter

Joey Votto was a better hitter than Anthony Rizzo last year, but the Reds owe Votto $179 million over the next seven years (or $192 million over the next eight, if they pick up their club option for the year in which Votto turns 41), and the Cubs owe Rizzo just $44 million over the next five years, assuming they pick up their two club options that would take him just past his 32nd birthday.

2. Age matters

Putting aside speed, defense and durability, Milwaukee's Ryan Braun and Boston's Mookie Betts put up very similar offensive rate-stat numbers last season, but the former is 33 years old and the latter is just 24. Based on what we know about age curves, Braun is likely past his prime (and likely to decline from here), but Betts’s best years might still be ahead of him.

3. It’s all relative

If every team started shopping every player as a trade candidate, which players would attract the biggest return from any of the other 29 clubs? For instance, if we’re comparing the trade value of Manny Machado and Jose Altuve, we’re not concerned that the Astros have a terrific third-base prospect in Alex Bregman, or that the Orioles’ Jonathan Schoop is a promising 25-year-old second baseman coming off a 25-homer season. Instead, we want to know this: If every team were allowed to bid on Machado and Altuve, which player would net the greater return?

4. Positional scarcity matters

If a catcher and first baseman put up comparable offensive numbers, the catcher is the more valuable player, since it’s much tougher to find someone with the defensive chops to squat for 130 games a season than one who can man first. That’s already accounted for in the Wins Above Replacement metric, which you’ll see referenced occasionally here, but it bears repeating.

5. Defense, park factors and other variables not immediately apparent in superficial stats matter

These are not fantasy baseball rankings, so a player who hits 30 home runs isn’t necessarily more valuable than one who hits 20, or even five.

6. The list runs in reverse order

If Odubel Herrera is No. 35 on this list, it means the Phillies likely wouldn’t trade him for anyone ranked 36–50, but they would have to at least consider swapping him for the players ranked 34–1.
Again I defer to the experts on whether this is OK, assuming nobody asked or was given permission
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Re: The Ringer

Post by mister d » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:06 pm

Can we switch the actors' places here?
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Re: The Ringer

Post by brian » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:25 pm


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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnnie » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:43 pm

And that's why people use emojis. You can never figure out tone over text and certainly not in the space of 140 characters.

It's like the Key and Peele skit.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Ryan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:22 pm

he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The

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Re: The Ringer

Post by mister d » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:03 pm

... but we’ve reached the point where we can safely say that Marchand is more valuable than Patrick Beverley.

This is cocaine to me.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by mister d » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:07 pm

I'm not going to ruin the ending, but Lozo was the perfect asshole to write this.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnny Carwash » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:19 pm

I'm not even all the way through, but holy shit that's tremendous. How does that only have 9 shares so far?
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnnie » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:I'm not even all the way through, but holy shit that's tremendous. How does that only have 9 shares so far?
It was only shared within the last hour by Deadspin. I expect that amount to go up.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by govmentchedda » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Lozo is the perfect asshole.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by govmentchedda » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:35 pm

That piece just gets better and better.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by sancarlos » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:05 pm

That was great trolling.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by govmentchedda » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:39 pm

Sticks and hits and goals and saves
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnnie » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:44 pm

The Case For Prodigal Son Bill Simmons Returning To ESPN In 2018

Forbes link. Interesting article. I could see it, but it seems like a stretch with the downsizing being done at ESPN and the contract Simmons and everyone would command.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnny Carwash » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:00 am

This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
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Re: The Ringer

Post by brian » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:16 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnnie » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:37 am

No Encino Man, Best of the Best, or Only the Strong? Bullshit list. Just like their fast food one. The Ringer staff needs its ass kicked.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by mister d » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:40 am

I checked #1 and it wasn't "Dirty Work" so fuck that list.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Pruitt » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 am

brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.
If you're an afficianado of bad films, you should check out the "How Did This Get Made" podcast. They "loved" Roadhouse.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by DSafetyGuy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:38 pm

brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by howard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:20 pm

I checked #1 and it wasn't Showgirls, so fuck this list (but Dirty Work would've satisfied)
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Re: The Ringer

Post by A_B » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:01 am

brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by govmentchedda » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:06 am

Pruitt wrote:
brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.
If you're an afficianado of bad films, you should check out the "How Did This Get Made" podcast. They "loved" Roadhouse.
Was just turned on to How Did This Get Made. Love it. Mantzoukis is great.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Pruitt » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:09 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.
If you're an afficianado of bad films, you should check out the "How Did This Get Made" podcast. They "loved" Roadhouse.
Was just turned on to How Did This Get Made. Love it. Mantzoukis is great.
My favourite episode was probably the one for "Sleepaway Camp."

If you are a fan of bad movies, I strongly urge you to watch this abomination. And then listen to "How Did This Get Made" tear it apart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3q2y3ZEKF8
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Re: The Ringer

Post by DSafetyGuy » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:18 pm

A_B wrote:
brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:This list blows. Of the ones I've seen, most of these movies are either 1. Not really that bad or 2. Too bad to be enjoyable even ironically.

Also, the writers' definition of "all time" is apparently "made during my adolescence."
Agreed. Though still not sure how Roadhouse isn't at least top 10 in any kind of list like this.

I've long thought about doing a project where I would "review" (not in the classic sense) a movie like this once a week but trying to really get inside the movie. It's hard to describe, but it would be a long-form type review with a lot of discussion about the movie's quirks. I'd probably start with Over The Top since I think I could spit out 1,000 words on that one easily. Others would be Road House, Point Break (the original obvs), Cannonball Run, etc.

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Brian and/or I could write a better article on "Road House" than either that or the one Mark Titus had on The Ringer today.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by brian » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:24 pm

Yeah that's more of a "feature" story about Roadhouse which isn't without its merits but my idea is more of a mix of Roger Ebert's reviews of bad movies (which are almost poetry) and MST3K

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Re: The Ringer

Post by A_B » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:47 am

Of all the articles on the ringer (which I consider to be failing pretty miserably though I still check it often), this may be the worst.

Ranking all the entries in the Harry Potter canon.

Just an utter mess for a topic that could be interesting in the right hands.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by rass » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:51 am

I felt aswirl with warm secretions.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by brian » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:27 am



That's awesome.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by tennbengal » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:55 am

Goddamnit - and I want to have so much hate for him. But that’s absolutely great.

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Re: The Ringer

Post by Pruitt » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:59 am



Reminds me of a very old SNL film where Neil Armstrong walks around doing old man stuff, but whatever he wants. Why? Because "I'm Neil Armstrong."
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Re: The Ringer

Post by Johnny Carwash » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:03 pm

If the purpose of Jason Concepcion's hiring was to prevent Simmons from having the most grating voice on Ringer podcasts...then mission accomplished.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by A_B » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:06 am

govmentchedda wrote:I enjoy everything Shea Serrano.



Good read.
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Re: The Ringer

Post by A_B » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:38 am

Also, if anyone is interested, I will send you my copy of Basketball and Other Things when I am finished with it, which may be as soon as tomorrow. Only requirement would be that you pass it on or donate it to a library when you're done!
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