Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 2016 Inductees

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:57 pm

Pearl Jam, Tupac Shakur, Journey, Yes, Electric Light Orchestra and Joan Baez

Yes, no, maybe, no, FUCK NO, whatever.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:06 pm

I'm not offended by ELO's inclusion, but Joan Baez? Why? She was a media star, but she never sold many records, wasn't influential and was really only relevant 50 years ago for a brief moment.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:07 pm

bfj wrote:FUCK NO

Joke's on you, that place's legitimacy is now finally confirmed.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:16 pm

I think every ELO song has appeared in a PT Anderson movie by now.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:49 pm

Tupac is no as a rapper, yes as a rapper-as-cultural-icon-slash-influence. So I don't know if that makes him a yes or no, but I know it should open the door for atleast a half dozen others down the line.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:04 pm

mister d wrote:Tupac is no as a rapper, yes as a rapper-as-cultural-icon-slash-influence. So I don't know if that makes him a yes or no, but I know it should open the door for atleast a half dozen others down the line.

I don't know what they base it on, but I would say yes from an influence standpoint. Kind of the (or one the) godfathers of West Coast rap, right? Pearl Jam? I mean, I liked Ten when it came out, and bought and listened to the second album, but HoF worthy? Then they had that horrible Christmas song the radio played the fuck out of, and it was the last I thought about Pearl Jam since maybe a year ago, when several FB friends posted pics from Pearl Jam concerts. I thought Eddie Vedder left the band back in 1998-ish, and that was the end of the band. Kind of lumped them with 5-10 other grunge bands that had there 2 years in the sun.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:16 pm

I think Pearl Jam is the third-highest grossing band formed in the 1990s (Not to ruin a good potential Swampcrash question, but #1 is Dave Matthews Band and #2 is (yuck) Coldplay.

(Not that profits are the end-all, be-all or anything, but if you're judging by album sales and tickets sold they're absolutely first ballot.)

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:19 pm

The Sybian wrote:I don't know what they base it on, but I would say yes from an influence standpoint. Kind of the (or one the) godfathers of West Coast rap, right?

He's certainly known as being part of the next-gen after NWA but he was born in Harlem sooo ... I don't know? Beyond that, a lot of his stuff just wasn't that great, atleast relative to the great rap of the 90s. If somehow you could have music on its own merit without personality and celebrity, he's just another real good guy, not a HoFer. And he may have been a rapist.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:21 pm

The Sybian wrote:
mister d wrote:Tupac is no as a rapper, yes as a rapper-as-cultural-icon-slash-influence. So I don't know if that makes him a yes or no, but I know it should open the door for atleast a half dozen others down the line.
I don't know what they base it on, but I would say yes from an influence standpoint. Kind of the (or one the) godfathers of West Coast rap, right? Pearl Jam? I mean, I liked Ten when it came out, and bought and listened to the second album, but HoF worthy? Then they had that horrible Christmas song the radio played the fuck out of, and it was the last I thought about Pearl Jam since maybe a year ago, when several FB friends posted pics from Pearl Jam concerts. I thought Eddie Vedder left the band back in 1998-ish, and that was the end of the band. Kind of lumped them with 5-10 other grunge bands that had there 2 years in the sun.

UNSUBSCRIBE

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 pm

And I guess depending on how you feel about gangsta rap and all that, he may have been a huge poseur or atleast started off as a huge poseur before he started really getting shot.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:27 pm

And and any which way you view those things, google says the current rappers/groups in the HoF are Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash, NWA and Public Enemy. Tupac isn't that level on skill or influence.

(I think I'm starting to get mad, btw. Rakim is Tim Raines?)

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:28 pm

brian wrote:I think Pearl Jam is the third-highest grossing band formed in the 1990s (Not to ruin a good potential Swampcrash question, but #1 is Dave Matthews Band and #2 is (yuck) Coldplay.

(Not that profits are the end-all, be-all or anything, but if you're judging by album sales and tickets sold they're absolutely first ballot.)

Damn, I had no idea.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:29 pm

Man, this might turn into a thing tomorrow. Its already to big to do without two categories; those who were more influential to rap as a whole and contemporaries who were simply better than him. I need to walk away.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:49 pm

I have absolutely zero issue with Journey, ELO or Pearl Jam.

If Tupac doesn't go down in a hail of bullets, he's not likely getting a nomination. Obviously, that's just, like, may opinion maaaan... But agree with D that if we're talking about influencers, he's pretty far down the list in that regard. Particularly with the list of who is in (which is pretty damn short.)

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:59 pm

ABBA is in the Hall. Who gives a fuck?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:29 pm

aaaaaand no one has a a problem with BFJ saying NO to Yes?

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:34 pm

There are two types of people in the world:

those who understand why Yes is finally in the RnR Hall of Fame, and those who are wrong in their beliefs.

Couple of randoms:

ELO should have been in at least a decade ago. Seminal bands deserve recognition at the outset of their retirement, not once it's painfully obvious subsequent generations of rock and roll artists reference them as influences.

Pearl Jam is deserving.

Journey? Eh. I guess. It's a shame they whored out so badly after such a promising run in the 70s post-Santana. Can't argue it too vehemently though considering the HOF's arbitrary goalposts.

I won't venture an opinion on Tupac Shakur, except to venture an opinion on him: I had no idea who he was until he got shot/killed.

Joan Baez? Eh. Whatever.

Yes and ELO are in. These are my takeaways.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:07 pm

bfj wrote:Pearl Jam, Tupac Shakur, Journey, Yes, Electric Light Orchestra and Joan Baez

Yes, no, maybe, no, FUCK NO, whatever.

Yes, maybe, no, maybe, yes, are you fucking kidding?

Joan Baez? No one ever wanted to see her - didn't she make a living as an opening act for Dylan, the Band and others? Or are they just running out of Woodstock survivors, and Sha na Na weren't available?

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:08 pm

Now that ELO is in, I'm going to tweak bfj and similar-minded people by taking up the cause for Supertramp.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:10 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:Now that ELO is in, I'm going to tweak bfj and similar-minded people by taking up the cause for Supertramp.

Absolutely. Supertramp is probably better than ELO in my opinion.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:11 pm

BSF21 wrote:Heart is in the Hall. Who gives a fuck?

FIFY

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:12 pm

I wasn't even a big fan, but I'd vote for Supertramp.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:12 pm

brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:Now that ELO is in, I'm going to tweak bfj and similar-minded people by taking up the cause for Supertramp.
Absolutely. Supertramp is probably better than ELO in my opinion.

That's quite the low bar, but I'd agree. Breakfast in America is a solid album.

Post by **brian** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:16 pm

As I get older sometimes I can still piece together what 8-tracks my parents owned by knowing the year an album was released and by listening to some of the last three or four tracks on an album because even those songs are still burned in my brain somehow. (Describing Breakfast in America specifically but lots of other albums I could name as well.)

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:23 pm

Honestly, I could get behind just about any late 70's/early 80's band with catchy tunes and elaborate production values. Asia, you're up next.

REO Speedwagon can eat a dick, though.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:47 pm

Asia had no longevity.

IMHO, the best Supertramp album was not Breakfast in America, but Crime of the Century, which I think is also the opinion of the band.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Pearl Jam > ELO > Supertramp > Yes > Journey in my opinion, but I don't really care about the Rock n' Roll HOF. If induction there were something "really important" like the Baseball HOF, I'd say that Pearl Jam would be the only one of those bands I'd actually feel strongly enough about to argue for.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:32 pm

I do think it's interesting, though, that as time has passed and most of the no-brainers are out of the way, the Rock HOF has gotten a little more like the Baseball HOF with arguments over borderline candidates and conspicuous exclusions, etc.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:15 am

sancarlos wrote:Asia had no longevity.

IMHO, the best Supertramp album was not Breakfast in America, but Crime of the Century, which I think is also the opinion of the band.

And it still stands up (for the most part).

At least groups like Supertramp and ELO had a certain amount of longevity - creative over a number of years. Look at dreck-meisters like The mamas and the Papas - together for a couple of years, but held in such high esteem because, you know, the late 60s.

If they are in the HOF, than any two or three hit wonder should be allowed in.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:11 am

sancarlos wrote:Asia had no longevity.

IMHO, the best Supertramp album was not Breakfast in America, but Crime of the Century, which I think is also the opinion of the band.

I mean, I get what you're saying, but Breakfast in America was more a result of the band having actually moved to California, and the music and lyrics matched their attitudes (I believe Hodgson referred to it as previously it was English rain v California sunshine). I think they let up on the gas a little bit from the progressive rabbit holes they'd dig, too. Personally I prefer Crime, but Breakfast was positively crapping melody. I think you're right in the notion that the band shares that opinion, but they more or less just said, "fuck it, let's go make some $$". I mean, it's tough to brood in the sunshine, right?

Asia (Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Yes) was more or less what the more mainstream version of Yes was during 90125: bridge the heady progressive rock to arena rock in order to make $.

Pretty sure Trevor Rabin was in on the initial iterations of Asia before they got into the studio to make their debut LP.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:34 am

brian wrote:I think Pearl Jam is the third-highest grossing band formed in the 1990s (Not to ruin a good potential Swampcrash question, but #1 is Dave Matthews Band and #2 is (yuck) Coldplay.

(Not that profits are the end-all, be-all or anything, but if you're judging by album sales and tickets sold they're absolutely first ballot.)

Appreciate you refraining from putting the yuck before DMB.

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:48 am

I can't appreciate them, but at least they're not pretentious schlockmeisters.

(And that is about as close a complement as you will ever see me pay DMB.)

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:52 am

DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:55 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.

Not a fan at all, but DMB puts my wife in the mood. So there's that in their favor.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:58 am

Johnny Carwash wrote:DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.

God does that hit far too close to home.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:06 am

Pruitt wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.
Not a fan at all, but DMB puts my wife in the mood. So there's that in their favor.

DMB helped many clueless bros get laid in the mid 90s, myself included.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:10 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.
Not a fan at all, but DMB puts my wife in the mood. So there's that in their favor.
DMB helped many clueless bros get laid in the mid 90s, myself included.

Sade also springs to mind from back in the day.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:13 am

I like DMB like I like Bernie Williams. As long as I ignore everything they're associated with...

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:59 am

govmentchedda wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.
Not a fan at all, but DMB puts my wife in the mood. So there's that in their favor.
DMB helped many clueless bros get laid in the mid 90s, myself included.

My go-to cassette case/sack o' tapes (and in the second half of the 80s, CD sleeve) contained the music I loved (usually some combination of varied REM, U2, XTC, Church, Talking Heads, Feelies), but always had the go-to Duran Duran "Rio", and later Terrence Trent D'arby "Introducing the Hardline.." when I needed to bait my hook.

Damn. I haven't listened to the Feelies in a long-ass time. Most underrated band of the 80s? Crazy Rhythms. Good times.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:06 pm

Pruitt wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:DMB is the official favorite band of every suburban white girl who graduated high school in the 90s.
Not a fan at all, but DMB puts my wife in the mood. So there's that in their favor.
DMB helped many clueless bros get laid in the mid 90s, myself included.
Sade also springs to mind from back in the day.

Roxy Music "Avalon" was the go-to when I was in college...