Science!

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Science!

Post by Jerloma » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:40 pm

Well...I suppose you have to make a choice but scientists tend to put things into practice thereby demonstrating that they are real. When you get on a plane, you don't make a conscious decision to trust the scientists that came up with jet propulsion. We know it works because it's been demonstrated and we know that the universe has laws that are consistent. You're not trusting people...you're trusting a process that's been shown to be the absolute best tool we have for determining what's true. Of course a scientist can lie but it's unlikely that an entire scientific community would all tell the same lie. Catching dishonest or even just bad scientists is built into the tool. Their lies would be shot down before they even scratched the surface of being taught or put into practice.
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Re: Science!

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:58 pm

Jerloma wrote:Well...I suppose you have to make a choice but scientists tend to put things into practice thereby demonstrating that they are real. When you get on a plane, you don't make a conscious decision to trust the scientists that came up with jet propulsion. We know it works because it's been demonstrated and we know that the universe has laws that are consistent. You're not trusting people...you're trusting a process that's been shown to be the absolute best tool we have for determining what's true. Of course a scientist can lie but it's unlikely that an entire scientific community would all tell the same lie. Catching dishonest or even just bad scientists is built into the tool. Their lies would be shot down before they even scratched the surface of being taught or put into practice.
Yes, now, in the 21st century, we believe jets will work, but not just because scientists say so, but because in fact jet propulsion and aviation has been practiced for decades. But there's a lot of science that has not been put into practice, because it just can't.

But yes, I do agree that it is unlikely that the entire scientific community would tell the same lie.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Science!

Post by Shirley » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:56 pm

Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Science!

Post by Johnnie » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:22 pm

Oh snap. Diamond Ferri! The pride of Everett High School and Syracuse alum. Dude holds Massachusetts high school records in football, I think. He was a couple years ahead of me.
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Re: Science!

Post by mister d » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:32 pm

Ryan wrote:If 51% of people stop believing things that are true, then it's still a democracy, right? A completely fucked geopolitical entity, but a democracy.

We're basically already there.
So put taxation up for a majority rules vote.
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Re: Science!

Post by Gunpowder » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:28 am

"You took a huge hit, guy!"

"No no, it's Ferri".
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Re: Science!

Post by DSafetyGuy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:27 pm

Johnnie wrote:Oh snap. Diamond Ferri! The pride of Everett High School and Syracuse alum. Dude holds Massachusetts high school records in football, I think. He was a couple years ahead of me.
In 2004, Syracuse beat BC 43-17 to keep them from a BCS bowl bid in their least season in the Big East because Ferri, who had played tailback his first two seasons before moving to safety, rushed 28 times for 141 yards and two touchdowns. He also played nearly the entire game on defense, returning a Matt Ryan interception 44 yards for another score.
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Re: Science!

Post by Johnnie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:50 pm

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Johnnie wrote:Oh snap. Diamond Ferri! The pride of Everett High School and Syracuse alum. Dude holds Massachusetts high school records in football, I think. He was a couple years ahead of me.
In 2004, Syracuse beat BC 43-17 to keep them from a BCS bowl bid in their least season in the Big East because Ferri, who had played tailback his first two seasons before moving to safety, rushed 28 times for 141 yards and two touchdowns. He also played nearly the entire game on defense, returning a Matt Ryan interception 44 yards for another score.
Randomly one of the best recent two way performances in football. Sucks he wasn't in the NFL long.
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Re: Science!

Post by Pruitt » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:43 pm

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Re: Science!

Post by Baloney » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:59 pm

Pruitt wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Like we should take a science lesson from someone who thinks wind farms cause cancer

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Re: Science!

Post by DaveInSeattle » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:57 pm

Baloney wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:59 pm
Pruitt wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Like we should take a science lesson from someone who thinks wind farms cause cancer
It's the NOISE from wind farms that causes cancer, according to the Stable Genius.

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Re: Science!

Post by sancarlos » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:18 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:57 pm
Baloney wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:59 pm
Pruitt wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Like we should take a science lesson from someone who thinks wind farms cause cancer
It's the NOISE from wind farms that causes cancer, according to the Stable Genius.
He also said that if you go with wind-generated power, you won’t have any power on days it isn’t windy.
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Re: Science!

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:51 pm

So, is he saying that the moon is, like, an outpost to launch a manned trip to Mars?

I don't care how senile he is, he's not saying the Moon is part of Mars. What's he actually trying to say here?
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Re: Science!

Post by OceanMatt » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:42 pm

Shirley wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:01 am
In a couple of hours, I'm going to walk across town and pay a visit to Wren Library at Trinity College. It looks like this:

Image

Image

What I'm most excited about though is that the library has a first edition of Newton's Principia, quite possibly the greatest work of math and science ever produced. Oh, and not just any first edition. This one was actually Newton's personal copy, and one he filled with hand-written notes to use in making the improved second edition. Pretty cool, no?
Newton's personal copy of the Principia?! Historical libraries are amazing.

ETA I've no idea what the hell Trump intended in his Mars-moon comment

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Re: Science!

Post by A_B » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:47 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:51 pm
So, is he saying that the moon is, like, an outpost to launch a manned trip to Mars?

I don't care how senile he is, he's not saying the Moon is part of Mars. What's he actually trying to say here?
I think that’s what he meant but it was worded terribly.
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Re: Science!

Post by The Sybian » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:30 pm

Baloney wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:59 pm
Pruitt wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Like we should take a science lesson from someone who thinks wind farms cause cancer
Yeah, but "many smart people" said it, so it must be true.
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Re: Science!

Post by Jerloma » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:29 pm

The guy that Trump put in charge of NASA has declared that Pluto is a planet again.
"Just so you know, in my view, Pluto is a planet, and you can write that the NASA administrator declared Pluto a planet once again, Bridenstine said during a FIRST robotics event in Colorado this week.

But much to Pluto fans' delight, Bridenstine reiterated his dedication. Pluto is a planet, he said. "I'm sticking by that. It's the way I learned it, and I'm committed to it."
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Re: Science!

Post by Pruitt » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:56 pm

Jerloma wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:29 pm
The guy that Trump put in charge of NASA has declared that Pluto is a planet again.
"Just so you know, in my view, Pluto is a planet, and you can write that the NASA administrator declared Pluto a planet once again, Bridenstine said during a FIRST robotics event in Colorado this week.

But much to Pluto fans' delight, Bridenstine reiterated his dedication. Pluto is a planet, he said. "I'm sticking by that. It's the way I learned it, and I'm committed to it."
How many people read this and figured that Puto was demoted under Obama?

(It happened under Bush 2)
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Re: Science!

Post by Baloney » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:05 pm

LIGO detects the most massive black hole merger yet, 85x & 66x the mass of the sun



The engineering at LIGO bows my mind just like the LHC

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Re: Science!

Post by The Sybian » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:53 pm

"I'm sticking by that. It's the way I learned it, and I'm committed to it."

This is the guy running the greatest science innovation outfit ever? This has me way more angry than it should. Or maybe not angry enough. I don't know.
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Re: Science!

Post by brian » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:39 am


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Re: Science!

Post by brian » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:40 pm


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Re: Science!

Post by Pruitt » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:00 pm

I just read all about Californium and realized - not for the first time - that this shit is way beyond me.
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Re: Science!

Post by Sabo » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:56 am

The second stage of a Falcon 9 rocket re-entered the atmosphere over the Pacific Northwest last night, and it generated a pretty stunning visual. Reportedly a shockwave was felt by some around 9:04 p.m. PDT, too.

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Re: Science!

Post by DaveInSeattle » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:13 am

Science!!!!

Finding From Particle Research Could Break Known Laws of Physics
Evidence is mounting that a tiny subatomic particle called a muon is disobeying the laws of physics as we thought we knew them, scientists announced on Wednesday.

The best explanation, physicists say, is that the muon is being influenced by forms of matter and energy that are not yet known to science, but which may nevertheless affect the nature and evolution of the universe. The new work, they said, could eventually lead to a breakthrough in our understanding of the universe more dramatic than the heralded discovery in 2012 of the Higgs boson, a particle that imbues other particles with mass.

Muons are akin to electrons but far heavier. When muons were subjected to an intense magnetic field in experiments performed at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, or Fermilab, in Batavia, Ill., they wobbled like spinning tops in a manner slightly but stubbornly and inexplicably inconsistent with the most precise calculations currently available. The results confirmed results in similar experiments at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in 2001 that have tantalized physicists ever since.

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Re: Science!

Post by brian » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am

I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.

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Re: Science!

Post by Steve of phpBB » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am

brian wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am
I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.
I agree with you, but the arrogant cocksuckers who are certain science knows everything are the liberals, not the conservatives.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Science!

Post by P.D.X. » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:34 am

"we know just about everything there is to know about science" and "science knows everything" are two different statements

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Re: Science!

Post by EnochRoot » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:56 am

P.D.X. wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:34 am
"we know just about everything there is to know about science" and "science knows everything" are two different statements
Vastly different statements.
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Re: Science!

Post by EdRomero » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
brian wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am
I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.
I agree with you, but the arrogant cocksuckers who are certain science knows everything are the liberals, not the conservatives.
Huh?

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Re: Science!

Post by Shirley » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:22 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:13 am
Science!!!!

Finding From Particle Research Could Break Known Laws of Physics
Evidence is mounting that a tiny subatomic particle called a muon is disobeying the laws of physics as we thought we knew them, scientists announced on Wednesday.

The best explanation, physicists say, is that the muon is being influenced by forms of matter and energy that are not yet known to science, but which may nevertheless affect the nature and evolution of the universe. The new work, they said, could eventually lead to a breakthrough in our understanding of the universe more dramatic than the heralded discovery in 2012 of the Higgs boson, a particle that imbues other particles with mass.

Muons are akin to electrons but far heavier. When muons were subjected to an intense magnetic field in experiments performed at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, or Fermilab, in Batavia, Ill., they wobbled like spinning tops in a manner slightly but stubbornly and inexplicably inconsistent with the most precise calculations currently available. The results confirmed results in similar experiments at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in 2001 that have tantalized physicists ever since.
I'm not so sure scientists really consider behavior of quantum particles to be "laws of physics" or at least not laws we yet know about. That's the whole reason why they're doing these experiments.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: Science!

Post by Steve of phpBB » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:12 pm

EdRomero wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
brian wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am
I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.
I agree with you, but the arrogant cocksuckers who are certain science knows everything are the liberals, not the conservatives.
Huh?
I have heard way more statements about scientific certainty and the extent of our knowledge from liberals than from conservatives. I don't think it's a part of the conservative ethos to act as if our scientific knowledge is either complete or particularly reliable.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Science!

Post by EnochRoot » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:24 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:12 pm
EdRomero wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
brian wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am
I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.
I agree with you, but the arrogant cocksuckers who are certain science knows everything are the liberals, not the conservatives.
Huh?
I have heard way more statements about scientific certainty and the extent of our knowledge from liberals than from conservatives. I don't think it's a part of the conservative ethos to act as if our scientific knowledge is either complete or particularly reliable.
The part you’re missing is whether or not the argument and/or speculation is made in good faith.
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Re: Science!

Post by The Sybian » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:40 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:12 pm
EdRomero wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
brian wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am
I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.
I agree with you, but the arrogant cocksuckers who are certain science knows everything are the liberals, not the conservatives.
Huh?
I have heard way more statements about scientific certainty and the extent of our knowledge from liberals than from conservatives. I don't think it's a part of the conservative ethos to act as if our scientific knowledge is either complete or particularly reliable.
My take on this is that when a new scientific discovery is made, or evidence proves an old belief wrong, Conservatives will use that as proof that "Science" doesn't know what it's talking about and can't be trusted. Liberals are more likely to believe what science tells us is true, but I also think Liberals are more likely to accept when new evidence changes the old belief. I also think Liberals are more open to the idea that we only know a fraction of what we will know in 100 years, while Conservatives are more likely to believe the current state of accepted knowledge is the entirety of the universe, not just a glimpse.
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Re: Science!

Post by brian » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:19 pm

Yeah, I agree with Sybian. Conservatives refuse to even believe scientific facts that we KNOW like how the planet is warming and how viruses are transmitted, etc. Get out of here with that "liberals are more rigid in their beliefs" bullshit.

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Re: Science!

Post by EnochRoot » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:45 pm

And then there’s the dishonest cudgel of their faith in a supreme being they let get in the way of their ability to think critically.
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Re: Science!

Post by EdRomero » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:35 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:12 pm
EdRomero wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:27 am
brian wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 am
I think one of the biggest arrogances of humans, especially conservatives, is that we know just about everything there is to know about science, economics, the universe, etc. when humans of every era have basically held that same belief and we've always been proven wrong.

It should be humbling, but somehow those cocksuckers are completely arrogant about their certainty.
I agree with you, but the arrogant cocksuckers who are certain science knows everything are the liberals, not the conservatives.
Huh?
I have heard way more statements about scientific certainty and the extent of our knowledge from liberals than from conservatives. I don't think it's a part of the conservative ethos to act as if our scientific knowledge is either complete or particularly reliable.
The conservative ethos I see is "we don't like what scientists (or any experts for that matter) say, so we're going to push the argument of how everything in science is so uncertain." If many scientists suddenly proved that homosexuality caused Covid, conservatives would quickly say how certain the science is and to never doubt it again.

What are examples of the arrogant liberal certainty about science?

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Re: Science!

Post by Steve of phpBB » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:48 pm

EdRomero wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:35 pm
What are examples of the arrogant liberal certainty about science?
Good lord there are probably hundreds, but how about "The Covid vaccine is safe," even though it didn't exist six months ago.

Not to mention all kinds of scientific principles about sexual orientation. LIberals used to be arrogantly certain that sexual orientation was fixed and immutable. Then they became arrogantly certain that sexual orientation is not binary at all but is a continuum.

And climate change will happen and will happen a certain way and will cause X, Y, and Z.

I've read people confidently proclaiming that "there is no such thing as race." I've read even more people proclaiming even more confidently about how it is impossible for there to be any inherent biological differences in abilities between members of one race and members of another.

While I think conservatives are *more* prone to unwarranted certainty about things than liberals are, liberals are by no means immune to it.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: Science!

Post by EnochRoot » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:47 pm

You sure are liberal with your use of the word liberal.
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Enoch brought the goods.

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