The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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As the kids say - "I can't even..."


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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian »

Nonlinear FC wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:45 am
Johnnie wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:48 pm A Series Of Suspicious Money Transfers Followed The Trump Tower Meeting

Follow the money, man.
I hope that's just the scraps the media can dig up, because no way a jury can convict on just that.
My one ray of optimism is Mueller's team's ability to keep all their cards hidden. The media has been completely blindsided every time Mueller had made a move. From the indictments to the names of key people being investigated, the media didn't have a whiff. Whatever the media does know wrt to Trump's money laundering and shady business dealings, I'm confident Mueller it's a sliver of what Mueller is holding. Trump and his business have never bothered to hide their crimes, they've just been lucky that nobody ever looked before. There are so many ties between the Trump organization and Russian organized crime (which is highly intertwined with the Russian government), Mueller must have solid evidence of crimes. My hope is that he turns it over to the US Attorney or even better, NY Attorney General, so Trump can't pardon himself, his children, or his employees.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Yeah, finding out that it was really only one person that kept the Manafort jury from convicting him on all counts made me feel a lot better.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:22 am Yeah, finding out that it was really only one person that kept the Manafort jury from convicting him on all counts made me feel a lot better.
Especially seeing the interviews with the juror who spoke out. She claimed to be a MAGA hat wearing Trump supporter who truly wanted to find Manafort innocent, but was overwhelmed by the evidence, and had to find him guilty on all counts. I was terrified waiting for the verdict, because it just takes one believer to take up the cause of keeping Manafort out of prison. I have very little faith in our jury system, especially when we are talking about a cult of personality of this magnitude. There is literally no amount of evidence or information that will sway 30% of the population.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Brontoburglar »

Manafort is cooperating
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Brontoburglar wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:30 am Manafort is cooperating
Yasssssssss. What a great start to my birthday weekend.

There's also this nugget:

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Johnnie »

This was 3 weeks ago:

mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Brontoburglar wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:30 am Manafort is cooperating
Birds don’t suck. They lack the necessary anatomical structures to do so.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Brontoburglar »

that tweet is incorrect, apparently



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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by govmentchedda »

Fake news NPR.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by EnochRoot »

I KNOW this has been going on for over two years now; an arrogant, malignant narcissist bully with no political or military experience runs for - and then is elected - President of the United States.

I KNOW his cronies are dirtbags, like he is. Genuinely awful people who have done underhanded, dirty things.

I UNDERSTAND that five - FIVE! - of them are now convicted felons.

But sometimes, in situations like these, when the former campaign manager copped a plea with the Special Council that is investigating the campaign (and at this point, who knows what else?) to spill the beans on the heretofore unknown dirty deeds of the President of the United States of America I pause and have to remind myself that this is real life.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 1. Manafort is pleading guilty to two counts of conspiracy against the United States.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 2. Each of those two counts carries a five year maximum sentence, so the maximum sentence for these guilty pleas is 10 years.

Manafort agrees that under the Sentencing Guidelines, the recommended sentencing range would be above 10 years -- specifically 210-262 months.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 3. Manafort agrees not to challenge that calculation, even though no sentence above 10 years could be imposed in DC.

The Government agrees to recommend that the the sentence for the DC case and the Virginia convictions run concurrently.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 4. The recommendation for concurrent time is not binding on either the DC or Virginia court.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 5. Manafort agrees to cooperate with Special Counsel's Office (aka "the Government") and "other law enforcement authorities identified by the Government in any and all matter as to which the Government deems the cooperation relevant."

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 6. That means that Special Counsel Mueller can require Manafort to cooperate with state law enforcement authorities in New York or Virginia.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 7. Because POTUS"s pardon power does not reach convictions under state law, that means that Manafort could be required to cooperate in prosecutions of individuals that POTUS could not pardon.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 8. That creates an avenue for potential prosecution of the others (Jared Kushner, Donald Jr.) who attended the 2016 Trump Tower Meeting with the Russians that would be outside of the pardon power.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 9. The plea agreement enumerates six broad categories of cooperation that Manafort is required to provide.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 10. One of the things that Manafort is required to provide is "to participate in undercover activities pursuant to the specific instructions of law enforcement agents or the Government."

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 11. The "undercover" requirement is certainly an artifact of standard language in the template for cooperating plea agreements. No one could be so foolish as to fall for Manafort as an undercover source at this point.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 12. Sentencing Leverage By Special Counsel Mueller. Manafort will not be sentenced until after his cooperation is completed. That process may take years.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 13. Until the cooperation is complete, the additional charges in Virginia where the jury was hung will remain pending. After the cooperation is complete, they will be dismissed if Special Counsel Mueller is satisfied with the cooperation.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 14. If the Government is not satisfied with Manafort's cooperation, it can rip up the entire agreement.

Manafort agreed to the forfeiture of $45 million in assets, including his apartment in Trump Tower. This more than covers the cost of the Special Counsel's investigation.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 15. In language that appears to cover the possibility of later pardon, the plea agreement specifically provides that the forfeitures "will survive him notwithstanding the abatement of any underlying criminal conviction.

Mitchell Epner (@MitchellEpner): 16. Manafort agrees to drop his challenge to the Virginia convictions and not to appeal anything about the sentencing in the DC case. /end

I bet Don Jr woke up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:24 pm
At some point the intelligence community is going to fight back.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by rass »

I'm sure that was Nintendo's joke in the first place, but the Kool-Aid man is never not funny so that gets a pass.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Johnny Carwash »

Fact: The poison at Jonestown wasn't Kool-Aid but Fla-vor-Aid, the cheap competitor. I've thought before that if I were the marketing head for Kool-Aid, I'd put a big banner at the top of their web site saying "JONESTOWN WASN'T US, click here for details."
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Johnny Carwash wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:27 pm Fact: The poison at Jonestown wasn't Kool-Aid but Fla-vor-Aid, the cheap competitor. I've thought before that if I were the marketing head for Kool-Aid, I'd put a big banner at the top of their web site saying "JONESTOWN WASN'T US, click here for details."
Interesting. If the expression was "drink the Fla-vor-Aid" instead of Kool Aid, I wonder if the Fla-vor Aid brand would have gained traction.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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rass wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:22 pm I'm sure that was Nintendo's joke in the first place, but the Kool-Aid man is never not funny so that gets a pass.
It was using Kool-Aid to mock the Nintendo joke. It was a great tweet.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by rass »

I don't see anything wrong with a little self-deprecating humor from Nintendo in this ridiculous situation their IP has found itself thrust into, which makes the secondary and tertiary tweets more like variations on the joke that was already made. Funny, but derivative.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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That's good stuff from Nintendo.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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The Sybian wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:48 pm
Johnnie wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:24 pm
At some point the intelligence community is going to fight back.
I guess the Republicans are saying the intelligence community already was fighting back.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I felt aswirl with warm secretions.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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rass wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:05 pm Welp, things are gonna get real...
I’m very curious about who the sources are for that story and what their motives were for going to the press. Because the odds of Trump firing Rosenstein and/or trying to shut down the Mueller investigation just went up a lot.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Joe K wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:36 pm
rass wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:05 pm Welp, things are gonna get real...
I’m very curious about who the sources are for that story and what their motives were for going to the press. Because the odds of Trump firing Rosenstein and/or trying to shut down the Mueller investigation just went up a lot.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Johnnie »

Uh, yeah. F5 o'clock on a Friday.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I think we've kind of forgotten or are maybe kind of numb to the fact that this administration, particularly Trump, are so fucking bonkers and off the charts incompetent (especially in those early months) that they caused a ripple effect.

Even if Rosenstein was being facetious, which... maybe? The fact that he was talking about this stuff is incredible. And Joe raises a REALLY good question about the sources for this story.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Given the nature of the story and the stakes, I honestly have no doubt that the sources here are 100 percent rock solid and not some end around by Trumpers to create a narrative/situation to force Trump to fire Rosenstein. This is the New York Times, not the Bumfuck Daily Bugle.

What no one seems to admit is that Trump was always going to fire Rosenstein, he's just been waiting until after the midterms to mitigate blowback. If anything, the timing of the story might be a blessing since if Trump decides to OD on rageahol and fires Rosenstein now it's possible it'll blow up in his face. A slow moving Constitutional crisis a few weeks before a national election might result in the GOP losing the House AND the Senate, whereas right now they're likely to hang on to the Senate no matter what.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I'm not really questioning the validity or veracity of the sources (I can't speak for Joe). I just don't really understand the motivation. I'm kind of mentally checked out on a Fri afternoon, so my Spidey senses aren't really activated, I just don't see why people would put this out there like this.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by A_B »

It's a flanking maneuver, no?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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A_B wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:14 pm It's a flanking maneuver, no?
I'm gonna just put on my ex-media hat for one second and say Occam's Razor suggests it's nothing that planned or nefarious or organized. Mostly likely the Times has had an inkling of this for awhile and needed to secure additional sources to be able to accurately report it before the Washington Post or anyone else does. That's how it works 99 percent of the time. There's no Deep Throat in a parking garage or Trump calling the Times and disguising his voice to sound like Daffy Duck. They've been working on the story for awhile and finally were able to put together enough solid information to write and release the story now.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:01 pm I'm not really questioning the validity or veracity of the sources (I can't speak for Joe). I just don't really understand the motivation. I'mg kind of mentally checked out on a Fri afternoon, so my Spidey senses aren't really activated, I just don't see why people would put this out there like this.
This is where I am too. Even if the source has no ill intentions, letting that get to the press creates a huge risk that Trump fires Rosenstein. I even think it creates an unacceptably significant risk that a GOP Congress would let Trump get away with shutting down the entire Mueller investigation.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Again, Rosenstein is ALREADY fired. It's just a question of whether Trump does it now or on November 7. At least if he does it before November 7, the voters will be able to take that into account.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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brian wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:11 pm Again, Rosenstein is ALREADY fired. It's just a question of whether Trump does it now or on November 7. At least if he does it before November 7, the voters will be able to take that into account.
Firing Rosenstein removes the person with immediate capability to fire Mueller. The Acting Assistant AG then appointed by Trump supervises Mueller (Sessions recusal)..But he will lack the authority to fire him until he’s confirmed.

Right?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Assuming Trump doesn’t just damn the torpedoes and fire Mueller himself. But it’s all academic. The new deputy AG will he handpicked to fire Mueller. It’ll probably be Jared Kushner.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian »

Joe K wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:36 pm
rass wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:05 pm Welp, things are gonna get real...
I’m very curious about who the sources are for that story and what their motives were for going to the press. Because the odds of Trump firing Rosenstein and/or trying to shut down the Mueller investigation just went up a lot.
I love how the biggest Trump backers are jumping all over this. Every word the NYTimes has printed about Trump to date has been fake news and totally false, but this? 100% undeniable proof of the Deep State plan to overthrow Trump! Destroy the entire DOJ because of one NYTimes article! Install Trump as a dictator!
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K »

brian wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:41 pm This is a really good piece.
This line from that piece is a key insight and explains why the GOP will never, ever abandon Trump:
What the American right wants, what it’s after, isn’t some abstract pluralist success, like the smooth functioning of government and/or the material improvement of American life. It wants, only and entirely, to defeat its opponents. Those aren’t quite the same thing. The Republican party would not choose the former if it could be accomplished without the latter.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by L-Jam3 »

The bad guys get a victory today. Rosenstien is out.
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