The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

[EnochRoot]

David Roberts sorta hits a home run here:




Read the thread.

[brian]

Yeah, I read that this morning. It's right on.

Truth is, before the election of Trump I might have agreed with the philosophy of the WaPo editorial board and others, but I don't think you can negotiate with terrorists and that's what Trump and his administration are -- they're figuratively terrorists at best, literally ones at worst. Appeasement isn't an option, only war -- total war.

ETA: As for the argument that this kind of culture war will "turn off" undecideds or not voters, I think it's the opposite. Frankly, the left needs stuff like this to keep people energized in my opinion. Anything to drive turnout in the midterms is tremendously crucial. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that taking control of the House in a few months might be the difference between if the republic can be saved or not.

[Joe K]

In addition to what others have said, what pisses me off about the WaPost is that on one hand, they’ve used the slogan “Democracy Dies in Darkness” to sell papers — marketing themselves as our defense against a real threat of autocracy — but on the other hand they do this predictable handwringing when people are “mean” to Sanders and Nielsen. Which is it: is the Trump administration an existential threat or just politics as usual?

[brian]

In addition to what others have said, what pisses me off about the WaPost is that on one hand, they’ve used the slogan “Democracy Dies in Darkness” to sell papers — marketing themselves as our defense against a real threat of autocracy — but on the other hand they do this predictable handwringing when people are “mean” to Sanders and Nielsen. Which is it: is the Trump administration an existential threat or just politics as usual?

I think the WaPo, NYT and others are trying to balance maintaining their access to the Trump administration with the need to accurately portray this moment in history accurately. I'm not unsympathetic. That said, if Trump gets his way THERE IS NO WASHINGTON POST in a few years, so seems to be that should trump (sorry, no pun intended) any worries about decorum in these times.

[EnochRoot]

Esquire: The Civility Debate Has Reached Peak Stupidity.

Summary:

This debate is stupid. It’s also dangerously beside the point. SarahHuck is the lying mouthpiece of a lying regime that is one step away from simply hauling people off in trucks. That she was politely told to take her business elsewhere is a small step towards assigning public responsibility to public officials that enable a perilous brand of politics. There are bigger steps to be taken, but everyone in official Washington is too damn timid to do what really needs to be done about this band of pirates.

So, Sarah, since I know it is hard for you to understand even short sentences, I’ll put it as briefly as I can: Take a hike.

Boom.

[brian]

[Pruitt]

In addition to what others have said, what pisses me off about the WaPost is that on one hand, they’ve used the slogan “Democracy Dies in Darkness” to sell papers — marketing themselves as our defense against a real threat of autocracy — but on the other hand they do this predictable handwringing when people are “mean” to Sanders and Nielsen. Which is it: is the Trump administration an existential threat or just politics as usual?

I've been reading the Post daily for the past year and a bit - it is 80% anti-Trump, and very often, nastily anti-Trump.

What's unsaid is what exactly the kitchen staff would have put into Huckabee-Sanders' meal.

[The Sybian]

So I visited my old Customs and Border Protection friends today to see their new digs in One World Trade Center (apparently no longer called the Freedom Tower). As they were showing me around, I asked where they keep the cages, and oh man did that joke not go over well. The NYC legal team is almost entirely very Liberal, and my friends showing me around have very dark senses of humor. I worked there during the Bush years, and we openly mocked Bush constantly. The Colbert Report started while I was there, and that was a huge talking point every morning, laughing at Colbert mocking Bush and the Right. Following the PATRIOT Act, we enforced some draconian and sick laws and policies, including stealing families life savings for the "crime" of failing to report it on their Customs forms, and we openly made jokes about how horrible the laws were. But this, the expressions and color draining from their faces, it was disturbing seeing their reactions. I am very confident they have no contact with any work related to the issue, but man are they disturbed over it.

[sancarlos]

What's unsaid is what exactly the kitchen staff would have put into Huckabee-Sanders' meal.

Yeah, I've known enough people in the food biz to guess that somebody would have spit in her food. I assume she's used to the taste by now.

[Johnnie]

Treat every hungry Trump Admin stooge like they've just walked into a restaurant when it's a few minutes from closing.

[Joe K]

Seriously. After the disaster that was 2016, what possible justification is there for Schumer and Pelosi remaining in their leadership roles? It’s hard to think of anyone who would do a worse job of generating GOTV enthusiasm for Dems.

[mister d]

But if Schumer and Pelosi are removed from their leadership roles, it would completely undermine the core goal of the democrats.

[Johnnie]

Wow, do Democrats suck at politics.

This is why Republicans win so good damn always. To quote the Jeff Daniels character in the Newsroom.

[Gunpowder]

David Roberts sorta hits a home run here:




Read the thread.

People think Obama is the most liberal President of all time, which is absolutely hilarious. Dude generally acted like a borderline traditional Republican.

I'd love to see what happens to people's brains if we have an actual left-wing President.

[mister d]

Luckily we know the party won't make the same mistake of favoring incremental, corporate-friendly change at a glacier pace over sweeping change if they were to take back congress and the presidency in 2022.

[Joe K]

David Roberts sorta hits a home run here:




Read the thread.

People think Obama is the most liberal President of all time, which is absolutely hilarious. Dude generally acted like a borderline traditional Republican.

I'd love to see what happens to people's brains if we have an actual left-wing President.

It’d resemble the hysterical reaction of the British press to Jeremy Corbyn, which is still unable to comprehend that voters in a vastly unequal society might prefer an actual leftist to an empty suit like Teresa May or a war criminal like Tony Blair.

[Nonlinear FC]

Seriously. After the disaster that was 2016, what possible justification is there for Schumer and Pelosi remaining in their leadership roles? It’s hard to think of anyone who would do a worse job of generating GOTV enthusiasm for Dems.

Their reaction is entirely predictable. The MD primaries are today. I'm voting for the most progressive, non-establishment people I can find.

Fuck these assholes. They run around with fake outrage all day, but are scared shitless that they'll be found out for the frauds they are. They are status quo establishment-protecting cunts.

So tired of this shit.

[mister d]

And things just got worse!

[rass]

Thanks Obama!

[Joe K]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

[rass]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

[Joe K]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

Got it. So many of Obama’s choices — particularly the battles he chose to fight — seemed to have been based on an assumption that his successor would be like minded. I have to imagine that if he realized the risk he’d be succeeded by a quasi-fascist monster, he’d have done a lot of things differently. I actually just read an interview with his foreign policy advisor Ben Rhodes where the interviewer (Mehdi Hasan) repeatedly posed this issue to Rhodes. Rhodes gave a bunch of non-answers that seemed substantive but really failed to address this criticism.

[mister d]

I think he saw himself as the first building block and, aside from health care, tried to avoid anything appearing "drastic".

[brian]

At this point, he's probably waiting to address all of those questions in his memoir, which for the most part I can't blame him. I don't think it does a lot of good for him to be out there every day railing against Trump, to add to the fact it would be as much of a violation of political and presidential norms as a lot of Trump's actions. It also means when Obama does say something, it still has meaning and galvanizes much of the left.

I know people expected more of Obama in office and he didn't deliver on a lot of it and expect more from him post-presidentally and hasn't delivered there either, but I think the lesson is he wasn't, isn't and won't be perfect. Maybe the best lesson is that we're getting reminded every day of what a truly bad presidency looks like. Maybe moderates and the extreme left won't be so picky about the "perfect" candidate in the future.

[degenerasian]

Trump will absolutely break that presidential norm of railing on future presidents

[Giff]

Trump will absolutely break that presidential norm of railing on future presidents

I can only hope this isn't true thanks to one of the tools our country obsesses over the most.

[brian]

Trump will absolutely break that presidential norm of railing on future presidents

I look forward to that day.

[Nonlinear FC]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

Got it. So many of Obama’s choices — particularly the battles he chose to fight — seemed to have been based on an assumption that his successor would be like minded. I have to imagine that if he realized the risk he’d be succeeded by a quasi-fascist monster, he’d have done a lot of things differently. I actually just read an interview with his foreign policy advisor Ben Rhodes where the interviewer (Mehdi Hasan) repeatedly posed this issue to Rhodes. Rhodes gave a bunch of non-answers that seemed substantive but really failed to address this criticism.

Yeah, but really... C'mon. It's pretty easy for all of us to shit on the Dems and Obama for not... What, expecting THIS to happen? Yes, people have been warning about where the GOP has been headed for 30 years, but until it actually happened, what were people supposed to do, really? There wasn't enough actual evidence or actionable items for the Dems to get all worked up about until now. There was dog whistling, subtle to not so subtle but still subtle racism, classist bullshit but all dolled up in code words and Ryan Paul "sincerity." Up until Trump, it was percolating, but all too easy to dismiss or mislabel.

But at this point?? Assholes like Shumer and Pelosi and the WaPo ed board clutching their pearls and being feckless cunts. At this point? NOW we can truly call everyone out for what they are. There aren't any excuses anymore. Civility has been completely chucked out the window by the GOP, Fox News, and the MAGA brigade.

Fuck civility anymore.

[rass]

NYT Opinion - We Have a Crisis of Democracy, Not Manners

[brian]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

Got it. So many of Obama’s choices — particularly the battles he chose to fight — seemed to have been based on an assumption that his successor would be like minded. I have to imagine that if he realized the risk he’d be succeeded by a quasi-fascist monster, he’d have done a lot of things differently. I actually just read an interview with his foreign policy advisor Ben Rhodes where the interviewer (Mehdi Hasan) repeatedly posed this issue to Rhodes. Rhodes gave a bunch of non-answers that seemed substantive but really failed to address this criticism.

Yeah, but really... C'mon. It's pretty easy for all of us to shit on the Dems and Obama for not... What, expecting THIS to happen? Yes, people have been warning about where the GOP has been headed for 30 years, but until it actually happened, what were people supposed to do, really? There wasn't enough actual evidence or actionable items for the Dems to get all worked up about until now. There was dog whistling, subtle to not so subtle but still subtle racism, classist bullshit but all dolled up in code words and Ryan Paul "sincerity." Up until Trump, it was percolating, but all too easy to dismiss or mislabel.

But at this point?? Assholes like Shumer and Pelosi and the WaPo ed board clutching their pearls and being feckless cunts. At this point? NOW we can truly call everyone out for what they are. There aren't any excuses anymore. Civility has been completely chucked out the window by the GOP, Fox News, and the MAGA brigade.

Fuck civility anymore.

I think we can take heart there seems to be a new generation of Democrats that seem willing to fight and take the fight to the GOP on the terms defined by the Republicans rather than complain to the refs like Pelosi and Schumer seem to do, but most of those folks aren't in the Congress yet. So it's gonna be a slog for a little while until some of those people can recalibrate to the new reality (some already have, especially the blacks and Latinos in Congress) or replace them with people who will.

In the meantime, the only option is to support whomever the Dem candidate regardless. In a fantasy world, where all 435 House seats somehow went to the Democrats there would still be plenty of them that need to be replaced in 2020 and beyond. We can worry about that then.

[L-Jam3]

Trump will absolutely break that presidential norm of railing on future presidents

I can only hope this isn't true thanks to one of the tools our country obsesses over the most.

You put that so much better than I could think of that wouldn't tip off authorities.

[Giff]

Trump will absolutely break that presidential norm of railing on future presidents

I can only hope this isn't true thanks to one of the tools our country obsesses over the most.

You put that so much better than I could think of that wouldn't tip off authorities.

I can only hope it's on live TV so I can PVR it and watch it when I'm feeling down. Kinda like I do with the 9th inning of game 7 of the 2017 World Series.

[Pruitt]

NYT Opinion - We Have a Crisis of Democracy, Not Manners

Excellent.

But unless and until that happens, millions and millions of Americans watch helplessly as the president cages children, dehumanizes immigrants, spurns other democracies, guts health care protections, uses his office to enrich himself and turns public life into a deranged phantasmagoria with his incontinent flood of lies. The civility police might point out that many conservatives hated Obama just as much, but that only demonstrates the limits of content-neutral analysis. The right’s revulsion against a black president targeted by birther conspiracy theories is not the same as the left’s revulsion against a racist president who spread birther conspiracy theories.

[L-Jam3]

Giff with the callback!

[DSafetyGuy]

Wow, do Democrats suck at politics.

This is why Republicans win so good damn always. To quote the Jeff Daniels character in the Newsroom.

This week's "This American Life" tells the story of the Democratic primary in New York's 19th congressional district, as does Matt Taibbi with "The Battle of Woodstock" at Rolling Stone (part 1, part 2, part 3).

[Joe K]

Our country’s screwed up politics in a nutshell:

[Steve of phpBB]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

My thanks goes to all the people who were too pure to vote for Hillary or actually had the gall to argue that it didn't matter if Hillary or Trump won because they are both warmongering corporate tools.

Everyone from the left who slagged on Hillary during the primary and general election owns Gorsuch.

[brian]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

My thanks goes to all the people who were too pure to vote for Hillary or actually had the gall to argue that it didn't matter if Hillary or Trump won because they are both warmongering corporate tools.

Everyone from the left who slagged on Hillary during the primary and general election owns Gorsuch.

Don't forget everyone who didn't vote in the 2014 midterms because whatever bullshit reason they give you today.

[Steve of phpBB]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

My thanks goes to all the people who were too pure to vote for Hillary or actually had the gall to argue that it didn't matter if Hillary or Trump won because they are both warmongering corporate tools.

Everyone from the left who slagged on Hillary during the primary and general election owns Gorsuch.

Don't forget everyone who didn't vote in the 2014 midterms because whatever bullshit reason they give you today.

Yup.

[Joe K]

Thanks Obama!

I know you’re being sarcastic, but the Dems allowing the Senate GOP to get away with the Garland stunt will go down as an all-time example of political malpractice. They should have hammered that every fucking day, but they were so convinced Clinton would win, and get to make her own pick, that they let that bullshit happen.

I meant exactly what you just said above, but specifically calling out BO and not just "the Dems".

My thanks goes to all the people who were too pure to vote for Hillary or actually had the gall to argue that it didn't matter if Hillary or Trump won because they are both warmongering corporate tools.

Everyone from the left who slagged on Hillary during the primary and general election owns Gorsuch.

Blaming "the left" is bizarre to me when (1) Hillary got a substantially higher level of support from Sanders voters in the general election than Obama got from Hillary voters in 2008; and (2) the right-leaning 3rd party candidate, Gary Johnson, got 3 times as many votes as the left-leaning 3rd party candidate, Jill Stein. There's really no basis to think that "the left" didn't do it's part and the idea of blaming them for our current political predicament just seems like a cop out by the Democratic establishment to push back on outsider, reformist candidates in the primaries.