The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by The Sybian »

Steve of phpBB wrote:
govmentchedda wrote:I'd say it's likely, but still no guarantee.


Can you think of a reason why Flynn would plead guilty right off the bat if he didn't have a deal?

And if Flynn has a deal with Mueller, doesn't that mean Flynn is flipping? Is there another reason why Mueller would make a deal that didn't involve cooperation against others?


If lying to the FBI was all they had, they wouldn't be in a rush to convict Flynn. Let the specter of Flynn dangle to scare off others. Plus, there is so much evidence of Flynn committing crimes, there is no way they don't have enough to indict him.

If Mueller discovers evidence of crimes beyond colluding with Russia to win the election, Mueller can indict on that. Manafort was indicted on money laundering. Trump runs his business like an organized crime syndicate, and does so much business with known Soviet Bloc organized crime bosses, there has to be evidence of crimes. My concern is whether Congress holds Trump in check, or if they let him skate on Executive privileges.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

Johnnie wrote:Senator Richard Blumenthal sent Pence a letter regarding Flynn. It's spicy.

PDF alert...

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/imo/m ... letter.pdf


I imagine the next letter will be even spicier, given that Flynn admitted to getting direction from a "Presidential Transition Team official" for his contacts with the Russian ambassador about the sanctions, and a "very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team" when he called the Russians to stop the UN Security Council vote on the Israel settlements resolution.

Pence was supposedly in charge of the transition team.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian »

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Johnnie wrote:Senator Richard Blumenthal sent Pence a letter regarding Flynn. It's spicy.

PDF alert...

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/imo/m ... letter.pdf


I imagine the next letter will be even spicier, given that Flynn admitted to getting direction from a "Presidential Transition Team official" for his contacts with the Russian ambassador about the sanctions, and a "very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team" when he called the Russians to stop the UN Security Council vote on the Israel settlements resolution.

Pence was supposedly in charge of the transition team.


President Ryan.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by tennbengal »

In my fever dream Ryan and McConnell are also both implicated and indicted.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

tennbengal wrote:In my fever dream Ryan and McConnell are also both implicated and indicted.


Doesn't that give us President Hatch?

Fuck. It's pretty much turtles all the way down.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Image

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K »

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Johnnie wrote:Senator Richard Blumenthal sent Pence a letter regarding Flynn. It's spicy.

PDF alert...

https://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/imo/m ... letter.pdf


I imagine the next letter will be even spicier, given that Flynn admitted to getting direction from a "Presidential Transition Team official" for his contacts with the Russian ambassador about the sanctions, and a "very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team" when he called the Russians to stop the UN Security Council vote on the Israel settlements resolution.

Pence was supposedly in charge of the transition team.

There are reports that it was Kushner who asked Flynn to lobby Russia to oppose the Israeli settlements resolution. And Kushner's family funds settlement construction projects in the West Bank. I would get tremendous schadenfreude if Kushner faces charges in connection with this effort, considering that Russia didn't even block the UN resolution, and Netanyahu has been actively campaigning for GOP politicians for years now. (Remember when Congress invited Netanyahu to give a speech at Capitol Hill in which he bashed Obama's Iran deal, and then gave him a standing ovation?)

ETA: https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonnyc/stat ... 1110562816
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d »

tennbengal wrote:In my fever dream Ryan and McConnell are also both implicated and indicted.


Wouldn't that actually be bad? Trump is going to fire Mueller which means we're going to be relying on those guys to step in. If they're dirty, the odds go from like 20% to 0% that they actually will.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian »

mister d wrote:
tennbengal wrote:In my fever dream Ryan and McConnell are also both implicated and indicted.


Wouldn't that actually be bad? Trump is going to fire Mueller which means we're going to be relying on those guys to step in. If they're dirty, the odds go from like 20% to 0% that they actually will.


Yeah, the ultimate denouement of this basically requires those guys to grow a spine, which like you said -- the odds aren't great, but sooner or later they might very well have to.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by tennbengal »

Steve of phpBB wrote:
tennbengal wrote:In my fever dream Ryan and McConnell are also both implicated and indicted.


Doesn't that give us President Hatch?

Fuck. It's pretty much turtles all the way down.


I’ll take hatch over the others. He couldn’t lead rats out of an open paper bag.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian »

Quick remember that if and when Trump is indicted for anything, it's almost certainly going to be obstruction of justice.

https://twitter.com/matthewamiller/stat ... 7436819463
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

brian wrote:Quick remember that if and when Trump is indicted for anything, it's almost certainly going to be obstruction of justice.

https://twitter.com/matthewamiller/stat ... 7436819463


That timeline is cute, but it omits "Yates publicly refuses to defend an executive order." Wasn't she fired within hours of that?

The real facts are good enough - Trump doesn't fire Flynn, but asks for loyalty pledge from Comey. Then Flynn resigns. The next day Trump takes Comey aside to ask him to go easy on Flynn. Then Trump fires Comey. Then Trump tells the Russians he fired Comey to get rid of the Russia investigation (I think). Then Trump states on national TV that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation.

I can't wait until we get to see the original letter or memo the Trumpies wrote to justify the Comey firing.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d »

brian wrote:Yeah, the ultimate denouement of this basically requires those guys to grow a spine, which like you said -- the odds aren't great, but sooner or later they might very well have to.


I know I ask this a lot, but: "Why? Or else what happens?"
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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mister d wrote:
brian wrote:Yeah, the ultimate denouement of this basically requires those guys to grow a spine, which like you said -- the odds aren't great, but sooner or later they might very well have to.


I know I ask this a lot, but: "Why? Or else what happens?"


The Republican Party never wins another national election again.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Some more logs on the fire... Legal experts here pretty unanimously point to the type of plea (minor count) and the stage of the investigation (early) pretty strong indicators that Flynn is singing... extensively.

https://www.vox.com/2017/12/1/16723752/ ... trump-deal
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d »

brian wrote:The Republican Party never wins another national election again.


I don't believe that's true at all. An admin official just pleaded out, which congress ignored in order to push through a tax bill that fucks a majority of the population. The fact that the entire country isn't burning is a massive problem.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian »

mister d wrote:
brian wrote:The Republican Party never wins another national election again.


I don't believe that's true at all. An admin official just pleaded out, which congress ignored in order to push through a tax bill that fucks a majority of the population. The fact that the entire country isn't burning is a massive problem.


Let's see how 2018 shakes out. Believe it or not, there is a point at which Congress (the GOP part) won't put up with Trump's shit any longer.

I get your pessimism and for the most part it's warranted, but facing no consequences -- electorally or legally -- means that there is literally no hope for this country. And if you really believe that right now, it's time to get out. I've been pretty clear that I could see that happening, but we're not there yet.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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As someone mentioned upthread:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... act-russia

They comin' fo ya.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by mister d »

Congress using him as a shield makes me think we're there. It'll be locked if they let him fire Mueller.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Nonlinear FC »

And now the Post with a bit more on the details. Still kind of speculative... But sure sounds like sources are pretty consistent with where this is going.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... dc35e8d499
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Pruitt »

Nonlinear FC wrote:As someone mentioned upthread:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... act-russia

They comin' fo ya.


Not going to be a Good Shabbos at the Kushner home.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I do think it's good there's a rapid response plan in place in case Trump fires Mueller. I can promise I will be in the streets demonstrating if that happens.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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brian wrote:I do think it's good there's a rapid response plan in place in case Trump fires Mueller. I can promise I will be in the streets demonstrating if that happens.


Necessary - but how sad that this site even has to exist?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Pruitt wrote:
brian wrote:I do think it's good there's a rapid response plan in place in case Trump fires Mueller. I can promise I will be in the streets demonstrating if that happens.


Necessary - but how sad that this site even has to exist?


I hope it's not today. It's the monthly First Friday festival in downtown Las Vegas, so traffic will be a bitch. (Of course, it's an arts festival so it will basically turn into an enormous anti-Trump rally so that might be fun.)
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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About an hour until we see if shit goes shit.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Collins saves $10K on the property tax deduction, gets medical deductions exceeding 7.5% instead of 10% (which is still amazingly gross) and unstated health care adjustments. If she thought the bill was passing with or without her, I guess its commendable.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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That's one of my favorite quotes from the series.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Apparently Chris Murphy just mentioned Tupac on the floor of the Senate. Awaiting video.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by P.D.X. »

P.D.X. wrote:
brian wrote:
Johnnie wrote:This feels like magical Christmasland right now.

And one other thing that absolutely sticks in my craw with Flynn...he's a retired 3 star general. He's a person that I am, by design, having to look up to and follow orders from and trust.

This mother fucker is a near literal modern day Benedict Arnold. Disgusting. Could've had a very nice life on his retired pay and worked anywhere, but he chose this life instead. Fucking nuts.


Money is a hell of a drug.


I can't find it but Josh Marshall made a pretty convincing case that Flynn is in some kind of deep shit that required him to come up with a ton of $ very quickly. If he wasn't, he could easily coast on military benefits and get very lucrative consulting gigs as many ex-government security experts do, and probably make just as much as all his shady shit, but of course over a longer stretch of time. He needed money so bad that he was literally plotting felonies on US soil (the kidnapping thing).


Found.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/fly ... we-thought
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K »

Johnnie wrote:https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/936632130997800960

Wow, did ABC News shit the bed on this one.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/936760299146956800

For as impressive as Mueller's work has been, some of the reporting on Russia has been shamefully bad. So many stories about Russia have been portrayed in a sensational light only to get retracted or corrected later on.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

Every time those motherfuckers get it wrong like that, it supports weeks of "fake news" comebacks.

Someone needs to be fired for that.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Rex »

It's journalists who should be subject to malpractice liability and lawyers who should be free to say whatever they want all the time, imo
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Brontoburglar »

without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Ooooooo I better not ever hear you talk finance or taxes again, bro!
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Brontoburglar »

mister d wrote:Ooooooo I better not ever hear you talk finance or taxes again, bro!


take that pivot table and pivot it up your ass
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Keep Excel outta your mouth.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I saw some polling that this “tax cut” polled worse than the Bush or Clinton “tax raises”. Again if there’s no repercussions in 2018 it will get worse in a dozen different ways. Anyone who wants to come look at property with me in Panama is April is welcome.
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