The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:04 pm

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... aim-276017

I mean...

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:23 pm

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... 1512168710

These fuckers. Now they're making bullshit claims that Obama approved Flynn's contact with the Russians. Cynical pieces of shit.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/02/trump-flynn-russia-no-collusion-claim-276017

I mean...

It's a Saturday, so Trump's tweet essentially admitting to obstruction isn't blowing up like it normally would. I'm sure they will try to spin this that he was mixing up past/present, but as written, Trump admitted to firing Flynn because he lied to Pence AND the FBI. Which makes pressuring Comey following that all the more obstruction'y.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:55 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/02/trump-flynn-russia-no-collusion-claim-276017

I mean...

It's a Saturday, so Trump's tweet essentially admitting to obstruction isn't blowing up like it normally would. I'm sure they will try to spin this that he was mixing up past/present, but as written, Trump admitted to firing Flynn because he lied to Pence AND the FBI. Which makes pressuring Comey following that all the more obstruction'y.

and the KT McFarland email

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:05 pm

naked capitalism is a lot of fun today.

In the comments:

To paraphrase the Beatles, you say you want a revolution…but you don’t really mean it. You want more of the same because it makes you feel good to keep voting for your Senator or your Congressman. The others are corrupt and evil, but your guys are good. If only the others were like your guys. News flash: they are all your guys.

America is doomed. And so much the better. Despite all America has done for the world, it has also been a brutal despot. America created consumerism, super-sizing and the Kardashians. These are all unforgivable sins. America is probably the most persistently violent country in the world both domestically and internationally. No other country has invaded or occupied so much of the world, unless you count the known world in which case Macedonia wins.

This tax plan is what Americans want because they are pretty ignorant and stupid. They are incapable of understanding basic math so they can’t work out the details. They believe that any tax cut is inherently good and all government is bad so that is also all that matters. They honestly think they or their kids will one day be rich so they don’t want to hurt rich people. They also believe that millionaires got their money honestly and through hard work because that is what they learned from their parents.

Just send a blank check to Goldman Sachs. Keep a bit to buy a gun which you can use to either shoot up a McDonalds or blow your own brains out.

And some people still ask me why I left and don’t want to come back. LOL

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:55 pm

This megathread saddens me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comme ... oaches_on/

Look at this shit:

https://twitter.com/SenatorDurbin/statu ... 37440?s=17

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:15 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."

ABC suspended the reporter who ran that story.
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 3899618304

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:37 pm

If only the Republican party held such as standards.

The president can literally tweet that he obstructed justice and once everyone goes "Holy shit. You obstructed justice!" then blame of who actually wrote the tweet goes to someone else when called.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:53 pm

Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."

ABC suspended the reporter who ran that story.
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 3899618304

it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:17 pm

That’s possible.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:17 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."

ABC suspended the reporter who ran that story.
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 3899618304

it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

It's also "very possible" that ABC recognizes that its reporters should make sure their sources are rock solid before reporting out such explosive allegations. It would seem to me that the level of confirmation required should be proportionate to the gravity of the story. Ross' report that Trump *personally* ordered Flynn to contact Russian officials during the campaign led to calls for impeachment and caused the stock market to plummet. That's not a garden variety story where you can just say, "whoops, I trusted my source."

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:12 am

EnochRoot wrote:naked capitalism is a lot of fun today.

In the comments:
To paraphrase the Beatles, you say you want a revolution…but you don’t really mean it. You want more of the same because it makes you feel good to keep voting for your Senator or your Congressman. The others are corrupt and evil, but your guys are good. If only the others were like your guys. News flash: they are all your guys.

America is doomed. And so much the better. Despite all America has done for the world, it has also been a brutal despot. America created consumerism, super-sizing and the Kardashians. These are all unforgivable sins. America is probably the most persistently violent country in the world both domestically and internationally. No other country has invaded or occupied so much of the world, unless you count the known world in which case Macedonia wins.

This tax plan is what Americans want because they are pretty ignorant and stupid. They are incapable of understanding basic math so they can’t work out the details. They believe that any tax cut is inherently good and all government is bad so that is also all that matters. They honestly think they or their kids will one day be rich so they don’t want to hurt rich people. They also believe that millionaires got their money honestly and through hard work because that is what they learned from their parents.

Just send a blank check to Goldman Sachs. Keep a bit to buy a gun which you can use to either shoot up a McDonalds or blow your own brains out.

And some people still ask me why I left and don’t want to come back. LOL

delete

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:21 pm

A dude on Reddit said "Jared Kushner failed to disclose..." would be a great Cards Against Humanity prompt.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:52 pm

https://twitter.com/attackerman/status/ ... 2360421381

Saban has been one of the biggest donors to Hillary Clinton and the DNC, which goes to show how dysfunctional US policy is towards the Middle East.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:54 pm

Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."

ABC suspended the reporter who ran that story.
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 3899618304

it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

It's also "very possible" that ABC recognizes that its reporters should make sure their sources are rock solid before reporting out such explosive allegations. It would seem to me that the level of confirmation required should be proportionate to the gravity of the story. Ross' report that Trump *personally* ordered Flynn to contact Russian officials during the campaign led to calls for impeachment and caused the stock market to plummet. That's not a garden variety story where you can just say, "whoops, I trusted my source."

for the love of motherfucking god that's part of my goddamn point. jesus christ.

just because a source is really fucking good does not mean you automatically get to skip the step of second confirmation. I kind of figured that part was clear enough to be left unspoken, but it clearly wasn't.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:27 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."

ABC suspended the reporter who ran that story.
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 3899618304

it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

It's also "very possible" that ABC recognizes that its reporters should make sure their sources are rock solid before reporting out such explosive allegations. It would seem to me that the level of confirmation required should be proportionate to the gravity of the story. Ross' report that Trump *personally* ordered Flynn to contact Russian officials during the campaign led to calls for impeachment and caused the stock market to plummet. That's not a garden variety story where you can just say, "whoops, I trusted my source."

for the love of motherfucking god that's part of my goddamn point. jesus christ.

just because a source is really fucking good does not mean you automatically get to skip the step of second confirmation. I kind of figured that part was clear enough to be left unspoken, but it clearly wasn't.

Everything about your two posts, both the suggestion that Ross likely relied on a source that was "so trusted that the information was deemed valid" and that the story could have "been 'true' based on the quotes and stories from sources" was giving Ross and ABC the benefit of the doubt for the initial story. Are you aware of Ross' history of extremely consequential reporting mistakes? Like this beauty, for example:

Back in October 2001, Ross reported that an anthrax-laced letter sent to then-Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle's office contained traces of bentonite. Ross went on to report that "as far as is known, only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons."

I may not have gone to journalism school, but I'm not going to be overly sympathetic to a reporter who ran a bogus story that Saddam Hussein was trying to murder US politicians, and thus helped fuel the buildup to the Iraq War. Especially when that same guy subsequently relied on a "really fucking good" source to run a since-debunked report that the CIA's use of torture was stopping terrorist plots.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:37 pm

Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:
Joe K wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:without condoning the ABC report -- it's very possible the source was so trusted that the information was deemed valid. and then when the source backtracked and said well actually, ABC was left in a tough spot

that's my theory anyway. again, not condoning, so let's not try to give the guy who fucking does this shit on a daily basis a journalism ethics lesson

and anyway -- you can write an entire story that is "true" based on the quotes and stories from sources and it can be entirely "false."

I may not have gone to journalism school, but I'm not going to be overly sympathetic to a reporter who ran a bogus story that Saddam Hussein was trying to murder US politicians, and thus helped fuel the buildup to the Iraq War. Especially when that same guy subsequently relied on a "really fucking good" source to run a since-debunked report that the CIA's use of torture was stopping terrorist plots.

I'm not going to be overly sympathetic to a message board poster who clearly doesn't see that I'm simply explaining what could have plausibly happened without condoning what happened because it does me no good to start throwing stones at news organizations on a message board.

I bolded that last part so it's pretty fucking clear that I AM NOT CONDONING WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE and would appreciate not being mansplained about journalism

ETA: yes, it's slightly annoying to feel obligated to say "this is bad" so that it's clear that I think something is bad to make it obvious to the people who didn't go to journalism school that I don't believe "this is not bad."

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:46 pm

this kind of shit is why I typically don't talk about college football here. there's very limited upside. pretty clear I need to apply that rule to media stuff now too.

anyway, back to the topic at hand.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:44 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:this kind of shit is why I typically don't talk about college football here. there's very limited upside. pretty clear I need to apply that rule to media stuff now too.

anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Naw, we value your input as a journalist. I get what you were saying, and I didn't think you were excusing or condoning, just explaining how a fuckup like this could happen.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:54 am

Fucked up that Bronto is condoning what happened with ABC and Ross.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:07 am

mister d wrote:Fucked up that Bronto is condoning what happened with ABC and Ross.

He really could have short circuited it my explicitly stating that he didn't condone it.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:32 am

I'm glad Bronto didn't throw rocks at ABC News for managing to botch a simple report-the-facts on a story involving an investigation that is as big as any we've seen in our lifetimes.

I'd have preferred he'd have thrown a grenade. To remind the peanut gallery that their actions dinged the view of journalists as not only arbiters of truth, but as arbiters of facts as well.

Insert pithy lyric here that sums up my feelings about everything.

It gets me real pissed off, it makes me wanna say
It gets me real pissed off, and it makes me wanna say
It gets me real pissed off, and it makes me wanna say
FUCK!

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:34 am

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:15 am

"Bronto used a gif of Steve Carell's character Michael Scott." - Brian Ross

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:47 am

"Pelosi/Schumer Liberal puppet" is the new Trumpian phrase.

Reminded me of something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaVWRetR4jg

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:13 pm

Holy crap. Manafort and the prosecutors had agreed to set of bail conditions, and on Thursday Manafort's lawyers filed the motion, with the government's consent, to modify the order of release.

The next day, the feds learned that Manafort was working with a Russian contact (tied to Russian intelligence) to ghost-write an English-language op-ed piece pleading his case. Despire the court's order that the parties not make public statements about the case.

So today the feds filed a response to the consent motion, indicating that they no longer consented.

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:56 pm

So...Is bail revoked?

EnochRoot · Post by **EnochRoot** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:57 pm

..And how is this not a perfect example of a man who thinks the law simply does not apply to him?

rass · Post by **rass** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:43 am

God's Plan for Mike Pence

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:48 am

rass wrote:God's Plan for Mike Pence

This says it all -

Richard Land told me that those who withhold their support from Trump because they’re uncomfortable with his moral failings will “become morally accountable for letting the greater evil prevail.”

Not just about Evangelicals, but about any people who back vile movements. The trains run on time, the economy is stronger... who cares about morality and what happens to those who do not stand with us.

A pox on all of them.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:57 am

Not to defend Pence or anyone else, but I think a lot of the hypocrisy can be explained by just how singularly focused on abortion many evangelical voters are. Although my parents have always voted Democratic, many members of the church I attended growing up truly viewed abortion as an issue that supersedes everything. I'm not exaggerating to say that they viewed it as a moral crisis tantamount to a genocide. If you have that mentality, it's not so hard to view Trumpism as the "lesser evil," especially when you consider how he's remaking the judiciary.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:03 am

Johnnie might be best suited for this answer...but what the fuck was with the whole South Korea show off our army exercise thing? Is that a thing we do? Or was that Trump flexing on NK?

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:07 am

Joe K wrote:Not to defend Pence or anyone else, but I think a lot of the hypocrisy can be explained by just how singularly focused on abortion many evangelical voters are. Although my parents have always voted Democratic, many members of the church I attended growing up truly viewed abortion as an issue that supersedes everything. I'm not exaggerating to say that they viewed it as a moral crisis tantamount to a genocide. If you have that mentality, it's not so hard to view Trumpism as the "lesser evil," especially when you consider how he's remaking the judiciary.

Yeah - that is clearly the case.

But it's really not "Christian" beliefs as much as a single Christian belief.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:08 am

Joe K wrote:Not to defend Pence or anyone else, but I think a lot of the hypocrisy can be explained by just how singularly focused on abortion many evangelical voters are. Although my parents have always voted Democratic, many members of the church I attended growing up truly viewed abortion as an issue that supersedes everything. I'm not exaggerating to say that they viewed it as a moral crisis tantamount to a genocide. If you have that mentality, it's not so hard to view Trumpism as the "lesser evil," especially when you consider how he's remaking the judiciary.

I would think guns are a similar issue?

Post by **brian** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:09 am

A_B wrote:Johnnie might be best suited for this answer...but what the fuck was with the whole South Korea show off our army exercise thing? Is that a thing we do? Or was that Trump flexing on NK?

Both? Neither?

Not being sarcastic, but no way to know for sure even if they announced the reason behind it. It's definitely a move out of the Cold War playbook though.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:04 pm

A_B wrote:Johnnie might be best suited for this answer...but what the fuck was with the whole South Korea show off our army exercise thing? Is that a thing we do? Or was that Trump flexing on NK?

Pretty sure stuff like this goes on regularly. I heard a South Korean military spokesperson on the radio this morning saying, "we are the military, we do training exercising. It's what we do." Is there a motive in making a show about it? Probably, but I don't think this is a sign of an imminent attack.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:35 pm

Joe K wrote:Not to defend Pence or anyone else, but I think a lot of the hypocrisy can be explained by just how singularly focused on abortion many evangelical voters are. Although my parents have always voted Democratic, many members of the church I attended growing up truly viewed abortion as an issue that supersedes everything. I'm not exaggerating to say that they viewed it as a moral crisis tantamount to a genocide. If you have that mentality, it's not so hard to view Trumpism as the "lesser evil," especially when you consider how he's remaking the judiciary.

That's an excellent point, and it's hard to keep that in perspective. We have all voted for candidates we don't like, because we thought the other option was worse. Many people are convinced Christianity is under attack, and Dems controlling the Senate will mean the death of their religion. While we might think this is ridiculous, national TV pundits with very high ratings have people terrified about it. Voting for a guy with a deplorable personal "dating" history is understandable when they think the alternative is being forced to live in a Godless, oppressive society. When you listen to the description of Jones by the RW media, he is an ultra-Liberal extremist pushing George Soros' evil plot.

Avram · Post by **Avram** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Joe K wrote:Not to defend Pence or anyone else, but I think a lot of the hypocrisy can be explained by just how singularly focused on abortion many evangelical voters are. Although my parents have always voted Democratic, many members of the church I attended growing up truly viewed abortion as an issue that supersedes everything. I'm not exaggerating to say that they viewed it as a moral crisis tantamount to a genocide. If you have that mentality, it's not so hard to view Trumpism as the "lesser evil," especially when you consider how he's remaking the judiciary.

The American Conservative is mainly filled with right wing garbage, but I found this article interesting (of course it is written by a woman) This kind of moral rectitude is rare among Rs lately

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... -movement/

Post by **Shirley** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:59 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:this kind of shit is why I typically don't talk about college football here. there's very limited upside. pretty clear I need to apply that rule to media stuff now too.

anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Congratulations for the most condescending Swamp post in years. Please stop depriving us of your unassailable opinions on college football, journalism and NASCAR. We promise we'll never debate any of your points or fail to grant you benefit of the doubt for opinions you didn't otherwise express.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:10 pm

Anyone have an idea why Trump's lawyers continue to run their mouths? Now Cobb is disputing the other moron about whether the president can obstruct justice or not.

Why? WTF?