The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Pruitt »

brian wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:16 pm

This is actually a pretty good point. I'd have more respect for Trump if he had the balls to own some of these comments instead of denying or obfuscating. He obviously knows (or has been instructed) that it's offensive, but feels chastened somehow.
I really don't think he feels chastened or is capable of feeling regret. If someone says something bad about him, he simply lies and tries to turn things around.

I've met a couple compulsive liars in my life, and you can never, ever get them to admit that what they said or did was wrong.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

degenerasian wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:43 pm I'm sure the same arguments/concerns were made when Johnson passed Medicare back in the 60s.
Would it be that much of a spending hike to expand the already existing system?

Image

Switzerland is at 64%, Canada at 70% not much higher than USAs 49%

It's not 100% like some people think. I have to pay for my own drugs, dental and eye care through my work insurance.
But when Medicare was passed, people did agree to a tax hike on the middle class.

LIke I said, I don't remember the exact reports, but I do think it would be a massive increase. Don't most people still rely on private, employer-furnished health insurance?

Dont get me wrong, I personally would be fine with it. I just fear that as soon as the Dems take over and raise taxes on the middle class, they're out in the wilderness for another 16 years - so we get another 16 years of racist authoritarian bullshit.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I haven't done a deep dive into in the ins-outs of universal health care, but I do know that during the primaries people were up in arms about Bernie's plan that raised the average family's tax bill something like 200$. While it does raise taxes, the savings the average family would save from not having co-pays, etc. far exceeds that. People still concentrated on the taxes, you know while being able to pocket a couple grand.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by P.D.X. »

Rush2112 wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:06 pm I haven't done a deep dive into in the ins-outs of universal health care, but I do know that during the primaries people were up in arms about Bernie's plan that raised the average family's tax bill something like 200$. While it does raise taxes, the savings the average family would save from not having co-pays, etc. far exceeds that. People still concentrated on the taxes, you know while being able to pocket a couple grand.
Anyone who can't do the math probably also thinks that universal health care is the path to communist hellscape.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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brian wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:05 pm
Johnnie wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:59 pm
Joe K wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm Couldn’t you also combine higher corporate taxes with a progressive tax since the tax rate on the ultra-wealthy is at historically low rates? I’m not saying we’d have to bring back the 90% bracket that existed in the 50s, but it seems very possible to bring in a ton more revenue without significantly raising taxes for the vast majority of Americans.
America has an 18.57 trillion dollar GDP. We can do everything we want to. Everything. The idea we can't is bullshit.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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P.D.X. wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:11 pm
Anyone who can't do the math probably also thinks that universal health care is the path to communist hellscape.
1. It is.

2. I think tax "adjustment" would be a better term, but it is a multisyllabic word
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:50 pm
degenerasian wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:43 pm I'm sure the same arguments/concerns were made when Johnson passed Medicare back in the 60s.
Would it be that much of a spending hike to expand the already existing system?

Image

Switzerland is at 64%, Canada at 70% not much higher than USAs 49%

It's not 100% like some people think. I have to pay for my own drugs, dental and eye care through my work insurance.
But when Medicare was passed, people did agree to a tax hike on the middle class.

LIke I said, I don't remember the exact reports, but I do think it would be a massive increase. Don't most people still rely on private, employer-furnished health insurance?

Dont get me wrong, I personally would be fine with it. I just fear that as soon as the Dems take over and raise taxes on the middle class, they're out in the wilderness for another 16 years - so we get another 16 years of racist authoritarian bullshit.
The Dems would have to campaign on it so it's not a surprise and they don't get kicked out. We're going to give universal health care on these conditions,and the rest is private or out of pocket. We're going to raise taxes (or create taxes) to fund this increase and these are the benefits for you and your family. In Canada some provinces add a health care premium, something like $1000 per month per adult in the middle class. My province Alberta had one then took it away. Manitoba is debating this. So universal healthcare isn't always free. Its just universal.

Or do you think that is suicide?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:50 pmLIke I said, I don't remember the exact reports, but I do think it would be a massive increase. Don't most people still rely on private, employer-furnished health insurance?
I still don't get your logic here unless you're saying employer obligations would just disappear and they'd pocket whatever they'd been spending on health benefits. They wouldn't, it would just be redirected, and the system itself would cost far less to run.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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These aren't even dog whistles any more. Nothing like the president tweeting out the watchword of a fascist and anti-semitic organization.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Pruitt wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:00 pm These aren't even dog whistles any more. Nothing like the president tweeting out the watchword of a fascist and anti-semitic organization.

Aren’t his and Ivanka’s clothing lines still made in China?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by P.D.X. »

sancarlos wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:27 pm
Pruitt wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:00 pm These aren't even dog whistles any more. Nothing like the president tweeting out the watchword of a fascist and anti-semitic organization.

Aren’t his and Ivanka’s clothing lines still made in China?
And a large % of his employees immigrants.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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mister d wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:32 pmI still don't get your logic here unless you're saying employer obligations would just disappear and they'd pocket whatever they'd been spending on health benefits.
That is what I'm saying. My employees don't know how much we spend on their health insurance. So if our health insurance obligation disappeared (or went way down), there would be nothing to require us to give all of that windfall to our employees. The way we run our firm, we probably would, because we're suckers like that. (The employee contribution for health premiums has not changed since I got here in 1998.) And even if we did raise salaries equal to the reduction in premiums, that additional salary would be taxable income, whereas the money we spend on premiums is not.

And I don't think most employers would pass all of their savings to their employees.

Meanwhile, everyone's taxes would go up to a noticeable degree.

So with single payer, you would definitely have less overall spending on health care / health insurance. But you'd have millions of W-2 employees whose taxes have gone up and whose pay may or may not have gone up enough to come out ahead.

Meanwhile, people in my position would see employee costs going down, i.e., we'd make more money.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I thought you had to show health care premiums on W2s now. I know how much mine were.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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A shame this wasn't tweeted on MLK Day.



I'm assuming that the president is thanking Fox News here. Which is incredible in its own right.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by DaveInSeattle »

Pruitt wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:07 pm A shame this wasn't tweeted on MLK Day.



I'm assuming that the president is thanking Fox News here. Which is incredible in its own right.
There is a Politico writer on Twitter (Matthew Gertz) who has shown that Trump pretty much live-tweets Fox&Friends every morning. Like this:


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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by brian »

Yeah yeah yeah, Krugman's a douche, but this very short tweet thread (four tweets) is a good point and shows the danger in ceding any authority or respect to Trump.

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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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That's on point. Somehow seems like a new line crossed seeing "independent" politicians take to flat out lying versus ignoring or "I can't hear you"-ing.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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mister d wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 pm That's on point. Somehow seems like a new line crossed seeing "independent" politicians take to flat out lying versus ignoring or "I can't hear you"-ing.
Further to what Krugman articulated so nicely - these assholes should start wearing armbands with MAGA written on them.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Sloppy Steve Subpoenaed

Big deal? Or Big Deal!
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Pruitt wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:05 pm Sloppy Steve Subpoenaed

Big deal? Or Big Deal!
Eh, I doubt he really has that much indictable information they can't get from anyone else, except maybe adding to the overwhelming pile of obstruction evidence related to the firing of Comey. On the bright side, I doubt he has much interest in perjuring himself for Trump at this point, despite being forced to bow and scrape before the Mercers and apologize to Emperor Trump.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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But all the begging was before he was cut off and fired, right?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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mister d wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:26 pm But all the begging was before he was cut off and fired, right?
Yeah, regardless I just don't see Bannon risking perjury or making false statement charges for Trump at this point, but I think the flip side of that is he probably doesn't have much to offer anyway. Mueller's going to get around to everyone major who worked/is working in the White House, so Bannon doesn't have some magic bullet (I doubt).
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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brian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:31 pm
mister d wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:26 pm But all the begging was before he was cut off and fired, right?
Yeah, regardless I just don't see Bannon risking perjury or making false statement charges for Trump at this point, but I think the flip side of that is he probably doesn't have much to offer anyway. Mueller's going to get around to everyone major who worked/is working in the White House, so Bannon doesn't have some magic bullet (I doubt).
I think most of what Mueller is after occurred before Bannon was on Team Trump. I think Bannon was always on the list for subpoena, so I don't think this is surprising, or a result of the things Bannon was quoted as saying in Fire and Fury.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I just read that in 05, Trump tried to pitch a white people vs. black people Apprentice.

WTF?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Brontoburglar »

The doctor says Trump is 6-3, 239

while we can all agree that's probably a lie just by looking at him, the tell that it's a lie is the BMI calculator. 6-3, 239 is a 29.9 BMI

6-3, 240 is a 30 BMI. the 0.1 is important because 30.0 is "obese" on the scale while 29.9 is simply "overweight"
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Brontoburglar wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:30 pm The doctor says Trump is 6-3, 239

while we can all agree that's probably a lie just by looking at him, the tell that it's a lie is the BMI calculator. 6-3, 239 is a 29.9 BMI

6-3, 240 is a 30 BMI. the 0.1 is important because 30.0 is "obese" on the scale while 29.9 is simply "overweight"
He's probably 270 (and I'm under-estimating here).
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by A_B »

Two things: I'm 6'3 and Trump is definitely a bit shorter than I am. I'd say 6'1 or 6'2 at best.

I'm 270 pounds (down from 282!) and I look about like he does in a suit, and mine aren't tailored.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Neither are his



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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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If he didn't lie all the time, constantly, about literally everything I'd probably be OK with him creating a fiction that he's healthier than he is, even by bringing a Navy doctor into it, but it's pretty dark that he did get a Naval admiral (I think the doctor is an admiral) to carry on this fiction.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Is lying about the metrics here normal or yet another bad sign? Like what did Clinton weigh in at?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Steve of phpBB »

Brontoburglar wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:30 pm The doctor says Trump is 6-3, 239
Anthony Rizzo is listed at 6' 3", 240.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Almost spilled my bourbon you bastard!
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K »

I bet Trump weighs more than 239 but I’m 6’3”, and when I weighed 230 my physique looked a lot more like Trump’s than like Anthony Rizzo or some other in-shape athlete with a lot of muscle mass.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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Joe K wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:07 pm I bet Trump weighs more than 239 but I’m 6’3”, and when I weighed 230 my physique looked a lot more like Trump’s than like Anthony Rizzo or some other in-shape athlete with a lot of muscle mass.
We also don't know how accurate those weights are for Rizzo or Trout or the other guys I've seen listed as similar height and weight.

In the end, I'm sure Bronto is right. They gamed his height and weight just enough so he wouldn't be literally obese according to the government's own BMI standards.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by degenerasian »

is the BMI index simply based on height and weight?
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

Post by Joe K »

brian wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:10 pm
Joe K wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:07 pm I bet Trump weighs more than 239 but I’m 6’3”, and when I weighed 230 my physique looked a lot more like Trump’s than like Anthony Rizzo or some other in-shape athlete with a lot of muscle mass.
We also don't know how accurate those weights are for Rizzo or Trout or the other guys I've seen listed as similar height and weight.

In the end, I'm sure Bronto is right. They gamed his height and weight just enough so he wouldn't be literally obese according to the government's own BMI standards.
Yeah, the 29.9 BMI is way too convenient. But I could believe he’s 245 or something else that isn’t too much more than the claimed weight.
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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I'm so sorry for those typos!
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Re: The Indictment Thread (Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part II)

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layup for mister d

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