2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

[Rex]

While that did suck donkey dick, I think the Olympic bid became a little less useful after COVID and the rescheduling. Now we know the A team will go to the Gold Cup, and on to qualifiers from there. The guys who played here get a year of growth at their clubs.

[Nonlinear FC]

Also never new you got cap-tied after 4 friendlies (Musah). Seems reasonable.

That's a (relatively) new rule. I'm glad he clarified, because I was like "what.. how?" when they said that at first.

[Rex]

Some of the criticism I’m reading on Twitter tonight is really missing me, when 8 U23s played in Belfast for the A team this afternoon. But I think Grant is sniffing around a good question:



I think if the US were serious about Olympic qualifying, they could have done more to bring in the ringers for the weekend, hoping (correctly, in hindsight) that the C team would get past Costa Rica.

[degenerasian]

Same with Canada. They should have put Alphonso Davies in this game instead of playing him against Bermuda and Cayman Islands.

[The Sybian]

I don’t think it’s the Federations, but the players’ clubs making the decision. FIFA requires clubs release players for national team call ups, but not Olympics.

Look at past Olympic rosters from every nation, and you see very few names you recognize. Top U23 talent doesn’t get released by big clubs to play in the Olympics.

[govmentchedda]

I don’t think it’s the Federations, but the players’ clubs making the decision. FIFA requires clubs release players for national team call ups, but not Olympics.

Look at past Olympic rosters from every nation, and you see very few names you recognize. Top U23 talent doesn’t get released by big clubs to play in the Olympics.

It's definitely the federations for this past weekend because it was a full international break.

[The Sybian]

I don’t think it’s the Federations, but the players’ clubs making the decision. FIFA requires clubs release players for national team call ups, but not Olympics.

Look at past Olympic rosters from every nation, and you see very few names you recognize. Top U23 talent doesn’t get released by big clubs to play in the Olympics.

It's definitely the federations for this past weekend because it was a full international break.

Even with a full international break, clubs were refusing to let players play for the Olympic team. If they put Pulisic on the U23 roster, Chelsea would have denied it.

[Rex]

I may be missing some COVID quarantine nuance, but if a club is willing to release a player for friendlies, then surely the club is willing to release the player for 1 or 2 games the same week that happen to be in a tournament, which is exactly what the Italian team did for Honduras. So either the USSF went 0-15 in lobbying Euro clubs who then released the same player for this weekend’s friendlies, or they decided that they were going to try to roll with a C team for the entire tournament.

If the big boys weren’t going to play in Japan anyway (because it’s just too close to WCQ and the Gold Cup is a better tuneup), then the whole thing is no big deal. It means the U23s who don’t make the Gold Cup team will lose a little bit of time in their development, but on the bright side they will get to spend the summer with their clubs.

[The Sybian]

I may be missing some COVID quarantine nuance, but if a club is willing to release a player for friendlies, then surely the club is willing to release the player for 1 or 2 games the same week that happen to be in a tournament, which is exactly what the Italian team did for Honduras. So either the USSF went 0-15 in lobbying Euro clubs who then released the same player for this weekend’s friendlies, or they decided that they were going to try to roll with a C team for the entire tournament.

If the big boys weren’t going to play in Japan anyway (because it’s just too close to WCQ and the Gold Cup is a better tuneup), then the whole thing is no big deal. It means the U23s who don’t make the Gold Cup team will lose a little bit of time in their development, but on the bright side they will get to spend the summer with their clubs.

My understanding is that most clubs have a flat denial of Olympic requests. Big name U23s very rarely play in the Olympics or qualifiers regardless of other national team games/tournaments going on around the same time. I think they don't want to set a precedents of letting one guy go, then others will be pissed if they are denied. With full national team, they have to release unless there is some COVID travel policy in that country or an injury.

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, as stated earlier, given that our U23 is pretty much our full national team (excepting Brooks, Steffen and a handful of other peripheral guys) I'm just not that worked up about the Olympics. I know a few guys see it as a big deal because it's drummed into Americans heads from birth, but on the soccer landscape, it's really not a thing.

[HaulCitgo]

Maybe it should be a thing. A bunch of these guys probably aren't real american. Just a shirt you know. Can miss out on an identity like that and they still ain't good enough to out finesse the world's best so some pride, grit and togetherness will be necessary. Not sure you get the same vibes at a gold cup.

[The Sybian]

Yeah, as stated earlier, given that our U23 is pretty much our full national team (excepting Brooks, Steffen and a handful of other peripheral guys) I'm just not that worked up about the Olympics. I know a few guys see it as a big deal because it's drummed into Americans heads from birth, but on the soccer landscape, it's really not a thing.

For all the talk guys like Lalas make about "lost generation" because of missing Olympic experience, I don't think it means much. There are very few guys on Olympic rosters that make it on to national rosters in any country. I think missing U-whatever World Cups is a bigger deal, as a lot more of those guys end up in the full national pool. The other think to keep in mind, only 2 countries from CONCACAF advance. Yes, it's problematic that the US failed to qualify for 3 in a row, but I'm much more concerned with the National Team pool than the second string guys who play on the Olympic team. It would have been fun to watch, but with Nations League, Gold Cup and WCQualifiers this Summer and Fall, we will get plenty of USMNT to watch, plus the Women's Olympic tournament is on par with a WC, as it's first team players for every country.

[Rex]

At the time, I thought the non-COVID Olympics in actual 2020 could have been a big thing to get visibility and big game experience for our U23 generation. But you know what? The Olympics didn't happen and our guys all got signed by Champions League clubs anyway.

This tournament is going to be weird because of the Euros (and to a lesser extent, the Gold Cup--MEX and HON have tough decisions to make).

[wlu_lax6]

Yeah, as stated earlier, given that our U23 is pretty much our full national team (excepting Brooks, Steffen and a handful of other peripheral guys) I'm just not that worked up about the Olympics. I know a few guys see it as a big deal because it's drummed into Americans heads from birth, but on the soccer landscape, it's really not a thing.

For all the talk guys like Lalas make about "lost generation" because of missing Olympic experience, I don't think it means much. There are very few guys on Olympic rosters that make it on to national rosters in any country. I think missing U-whatever World Cups is a bigger deal, as a lot more of those guys end up in the full national pool. The other think to keep in mind, only 2 countries from CONCACAF advance. Yes, it's problematic that the US failed to qualify for 3 in a row, but I'm much more concerned with the National Team pool than the second string guys who play on the Olympic team. It would have been fun to watch, but with Nations League, Gold Cup and WCQualifiers this Summer and Fall, we will get plenty of USMNT to watch, plus the Women's Olympic tournament is on par with a WC, as it's first team players for every country.

16 of the 18 that took 4th place in Olympics from the article I reference above played for the MNT.

[Nonlinear FC]

At the time, I thought the non-COVID Olympics in actual 2020 could have been a big thing to get visibility and big game experience for our U23 generation. But you know what? The Olympics didn't happen and our guys all got signed by Champions League clubs anyway.

This tournament is going to be weird because of the Euros (and to a lesser extent, the Gold Cup--MEX and HON have tough decisions to make).

This is where I'm at... I know guys like Pulisic are saying (and meaning) that they want to go to Tokyo... It's more of a hassle given our schedule this summer than anything.

And I don't have the time to do a deep dive, but you could probably find 15 guys that are 24 or under that would start over that team that played in Guadalajara yesterday. The point isn't to shit on those guys, but rather to say we are in an unprecedented period of development for the USMNT right now. I'd love for a batch of these guys to go to the Olympics, but bigger picture... It's not the same canary in a coal mine that it has represented in past cycles.

Future is bright.

[The Sybian]

Yeah, as stated earlier, given that our U23 is pretty much our full national team (excepting Brooks, Steffen and a handful of other peripheral guys) I'm just not that worked up about the Olympics. I know a few guys see it as a big deal because it's drummed into Americans heads from birth, but on the soccer landscape, it's really not a thing.

For all the talk guys like Lalas make about "lost generation" because of missing Olympic experience, I don't think it means much. There are very few guys on Olympic rosters that make it on to national rosters in any country. I think missing U-whatever World Cups is a bigger deal, as a lot more of those guys end up in the full national pool. The other think to keep in mind, only 2 countries from CONCACAF advance. Yes, it's problematic that the US failed to qualify for 3 in a row, but I'm much more concerned with the National Team pool than the second string guys who play on the Olympic team. It would have been fun to watch, but with Nations League, Gold Cup and WCQualifiers this Summer and Fall, we will get plenty of USMNT to watch, plus the Women's Olympic tournament is on par with a WC, as it's first team players for every country.

16 of the 18 that took 4th place in Olympics from the article I reference above played for the MNT.

Eh, take out the 3 overage guys, and you don't have very many caps amongst the players at all. Most of those guys have single digit career caps. Almost all of the guys were playing MLS. Landon and O'Brien were the only two U23 not in MLS or college, and Landon wasn't getting any time at Leverkusen back then. Ben Olson was probably getting regular call ups to the MNT at that point, and maybe even Wolff, but I don't think anyone else on that roster was MNT player yet.

Looking at other rosters, it's a few guys who panned out, and a long list of nobodies. I don't think many countries send U23 national team fixture players, and historically, few clubs let young starlets play in the Olympics.

[Shirley]

Darryl Dike with two more goals today. He's really tearing it up at Barnsley.

[tennbengal]

[Nonlinear FC]

This thread from mgoblog is a nice little recap of the stuff we've been talking about in terms of the youth movement.

https://mgoblog.com/diaries/usmnt-update

The stats at the beginning are a really nice encapsulation of some of the stuff I was rambling about a few months ago.

One cool stat, as of 5 days ago, is that in the top 5 leagues of Europe, the United States is:

- 5th in minutes played u20 players (ahead of Italy, one of the countries that has a top 5 league)

- 6th in minutes played by u21 players

-8th in minutes played by u23 players

The future is incredibly bright for US soccer. Our u20 and u21 players have played more minutes this year in top 5 leagues than the u20 players from countries like Brazil, Argentina, the Netherlands, and Italy (only for u20 players). To me this stat is absolutely amazing and bodes really, really well for the future of the USMNT.

[wlu_lax6]

Altidore and Bradley not in the USMNT 40 man provisional roster for the Nations League semi and finals.
Also Efrain Alvarez was listed on the Mexican roster...likely the dual national is not going to play for the US.


G- Horvath, Steffen, Sean Jphnson, Ochoa, Turner
D: Brooks, Yedlin, Cannon, Dest, Long, McKenzie, Miazga, Ream, Reynolds, Richards, Antonee Robinson, Miles Robinson, Vines, Zimmerman
M- Aaronson, Adams, Acosta, de La Torre, Lletget, McKennie, Musah, Otasowie, Roldan, Yueill
F- Arriola, Boyd, de La Fuente, Dike, Gioacchini, Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, Siebatcheu, Weah, Zardes

[The Sybian]

Altidore and Bradley not in the USMNT 40 man provisional roster for the Nations League semi and finals.
Also Efrain Alvarez was listed on the Mexican roster...likely the dual national is not going to play for the US.


G- Horvath, Steffen, Sean Jphnson, Ochoa, Turner
D: Brooks, Yedlin, Cannon, Dest, Long, McKenzie, Miazga, Ream, Reynolds, Richards, Antonee Robinson, Miles Robinson, Vines, Zimmerman
M- Aaronson, Adams, Acosta, de La Torre, Lletget, McKennie, Musah, Otasowie, Roldan, Yueill
F- Arriola, Boyd, de La Fuente, Dike, Gioacchini, Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, Siebatcheu, Weah, Zardes

I know it's a 40 man roster, but the fact that Tim Ream still gets consideration depresses me.

[wlu_lax6]

I missed that Mexico did not include Chicharito. He is off to a great start (6g in 4 games). Raul Jimenez made the team despite being out the last 6 months with a fractured skull.

[wlu_lax6]

So Long is out...Blew out his Achilles. See him in 2022.

Silly season is upon us and rumors that Sarge will get sold because his team need to find 9 Million in revenue this offseason.

[wlu_lax6]

So Dike loses out to Siebatcheu for a spot on the Nations League roster. Walker Zimmerman was also left off.
4 MLSers, the rest are Euro

Horvaath, Ochoa, Steffen
Brooks, Cannon, Dest, McKenzie, Miazga, Ream, Antoee Robinson, Yedlin
Acosta, Adams (may be hurt), Lletget, McKennie, Musah, Yueill
Aaronson, Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, Siebatcheu, Weah

Group won 12 trophies in Europe this year (and a 13th will be given this weekend)

[The Sybian]

So Dike loses out to Siebatcheu for a spot on the Nations League roster. Walker Zimmerman was also left off.
4 MLSers, the rest are Euro

Horvaath, Ochoa, Steffen
Brooks, Cannon, Dest, McKenzie, Miazga, Ream, Antoee Robinson, Yedlin
Acosta, Adams (may be hurt), Lletget, McKennie, Musah, Yueill
Aaronson, Pulisic, Reyna, Sargent, Siebatcheu, Weah

Group won 12 trophies in Europe this year (and a 13th will be given this weekend)

As excited as I am about this new crop, seeing Ream on the squad sheet brings me crashing back to reality.

[mister d]

Ha, I didn’t even process his name the first time through. Crazy that Yedlin is 4th oldest.

[wlu_lax6]

US looked below average on Saturday. Strange empty stadium but cool to hear the coaches clearly. Dest good on offense, liability on d. The forwards played better defense than the backs. Team did not have much outside attack. They kept driving the middle. Aaronson looked good.

Hondo on Thursday in Denver.

[Nonlinear FC]

US actually looked the much better team in the first half. Came out in the second extremely flat. Almost like they were just waiting for the sub rotation to alter the game, as opposed to just going out and taking it to them. Not uncommon in friendlies, but annoying to watch it play out.

[mister d]

Yeah, how much of that was "a real problem" versus not having two of their best players?

[The Sybian]

US actually looked the much better team in the first half. Came out in the second extremely flat. Almost like they were just waiting for the sub rotation to alter the game, as opposed to just going out and taking it to them. Not uncommon in friendlies, but annoying to watch it play out.

I was annoyed that I missed the first 35 minutes because I recorded the game, and it was preempted by a stupid NCAA softball game that was 7-2. Other than the parents of the girls playing, who was watching a blowout softball game?

[tennbengal]

US looked below average on Saturday. Strange empty stadium but cool to hear the coaches clearly. Dest good on offense, liability on d. The forwards played better defense than the backs. Team did not have much outside attack. They kept driving the middle. Aaronson looked good.

Hondo on Thursday in Denver.

You thought they looked below average? Weird. Like you were watching a different game from me. My take is the opposite.

[wlu_lax6]

US looked below average on Saturday. Strange empty stadium but cool to hear the coaches clearly. Dest good on offense, liability on d. The forwards played better defense than the backs. Team did not have much outside attack. They kept driving the middle. Aaronson looked good.

Hondo on Thursday in Denver.

You thought they looked below average? Weird. Like you were watching a different game from me. My take is the opposite.

I like the style but the game could have been much worse on the score line. A smart team starting to figure out how to take advantage of weak defense. Did like the US going forward and like the style of play but not sure they are ready to beat Mexico this weekend.

[mister d]

I was annoyed that I missed the first 35 minutes because I recorded the game, and it was preempted by a stupid NCAA softball game that was 7-2. Other than the parents of the girls playing, who was watching a blowout softball game?

My oldest had us DVR it.

[tennbengal]

US looked below average on Saturday. Strange empty stadium but cool to hear the coaches clearly. Dest good on offense, liability on d. The forwards played better defense than the backs. Team did not have much outside attack. They kept driving the middle. Aaronson looked good.

Hondo on Thursday in Denver.

You thought they looked below average? Weird. Like you were watching a different game from me. My take is the opposite.

I like the style but the game could have been much worse on the score line. A smart team starting to figure out how to take advantage of weak defense. Did like the US going forward and like the style of play but not sure they are ready to beat Mexico this weekend.

That's the best maintaining of possession and winning the ball back in the mid-field from pressure in the first half that I think I have ever seen from a US side. And against the #13 side in the world. I mean, yeah, we saw that differently.

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, the first and second half were pretty much entirely different games. And part of that was a very sophisticated/smart team/manager that adjusted to Dest going forward so much, which left Brooks totally exposed by attacks from the wing. He go pantsed twice and, yes, the scoreline in the second half could've been at least 3 more goals. They had at least that many 1v1 on Horvath, not to mention a few point blank sitters that the Swiss put over the bar.

But, yeah, the first half they were bossing it and getting it back regularly w/o the Swiss really mustering anything other than that dumb goal.

[The Sybian]

Yeah, the first and second half were pretty much entirely different games. And part of that was a very sophisticated/smart team/manager that adjusted to Dest going forward so much, which left Brooks totally exposed by attacks from the wing. He go pantsed twice and, yes, the scoreline in the second half could've been at least 3 more goals. They had at least that many 1v1 on Horvath, not to mention a few point blank sitters that the Swiss put over the bar.

But, yeah, the first half they were bossing it and getting it back regularly w/o the Swiss really mustering anything other than that dumb goal.

And don't forget the Swiss shooting wide on a penalty. I don't like the handball called on Dest, what could he do to avoid it?

[Nonlinear FC]

I thought the broadcast team did a pretty good job of raising that issue, while not getting overly worked up about it.

But, yeah, the rule needs to change. If a guy has his hand relatively close to the body like that, shooting a ball from less than 5 feet into the hand shouldn't be a PK.

[wlu_lax6]

I know he is still working his way into the USMNT but I really like what Paul Arriola brings to the team. He just seems to be very strong as a player transitioning from defense to offense and unique in his ability to generate possession/danger when the US attacks wide (smart runs, positing, etc). Different than how Reyna or Pulisic work in that part of the field. Actually feels similar to Dest's play but from midfield instead of the back.

[tennbengal]

[mister d]

If Adams were healthy this would be the lineup, right?