2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:49 pm

Yeah but nice to have a big target and hold up is always important if teams don't concede possession easily.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by wlu_lax6 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:47 pm

Young squad for the game next Wed against El Salvador. I think Araujo and Alvarez are also dual-eligible.

# are caps/goals
GOALKEEPERS (3): CJ Dos Santos (Benfica/POR; 0/0), Bill Hamid (D.C. United; 7/0), David Ochoa (Real Salt Lake; 0/0)


DEFENDERS (8): Julian Araujo (LA Galaxy; 0/0), Kyle Duncan (New York Red Bulls; 0/0), Marco Farfan (Portland Timbers; 0/0, Aaron Long (New York Red Bulls; 17/3), Mark McKenzie (Philadelphia Union; 1/0), Mauricio Pineda (Chicago Fire; 0/0), Sam Vines (Colorado Rapids; 1/0), Walker Zimmerman (Nashville SC; 12/2)

MIDFIELDERS (5): Brenden Aaronson (Philadelphia Union; 1/0), Kellyn Acosta (Colorado Rapids; 23/2), Frankie Amaya (FC Cincinnati; 0/0), Cole Bassett (Colorado Rapids; 0/0), Sebastian Lletget (LA Galaxy; 16/3)


FORWARDS (6): Ayo Akinola (Toronto FC/CAN; 0/0), Efrain Alvarez (LA Galaxy; 0/0), Paul Arriola (D.C. United; 33/5), Daryl Dike (Orlando City SC; 0/0), Djordje Mihailovic (Chicago Fire; 5/1), Chris Mueller (Orlando City SC; 0/0)

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by mister d » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:51 pm

Jesus. What would the line be in a "friendly" between our domestic players and our international players?
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:03 pm

no doubt youll get your wish in camp. Seems like I saw a hard knocks style documentary about mens team qualifying. Id settle for practice footage.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by mister d » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:06 pm

You think they'd actually set it up that way? Seems like a biggest possible shit you could take on MLS.
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Rex » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:21 pm

This isn't really a best of MLS team, it's a best of MLS guys who have been eliminated from MLS Cup team. And maybe even excludes the teams that are doing CCL in December (talk about a waste of time).

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:35 pm

Doesnt every team go 1s vs 2s?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by The Sybian » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:00 pm

Forgot about Acosta. I thought he was the future, then McKennie and Adams stepped up. Has Acosta not developed, or just displaced by better talent?

I recognize maybe 8 names on this list. Is it a lot of young guys, or just scraping the bottom of the barrel?
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by wlu_lax6 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:52 am

The Sybian wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:00 pm
Forgot about Acosta. I thought he was the future, then McKennie and Adams stepped up. Has Acosta not developed, or just displaced by better talent?

I recognize maybe 8 names on this list. Is it a lot of young guys, or just scraping the bottom of the barrel?
This is a young team. Really just the same a the January MLS-only USMNT camp US soccer used to run. But no reason to pull out middle aged MLSers who have not shot of taking a place of a young Euro.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:03 am

What’s going on with Justen Glad? Is he just not good enough to get the call-up? Injury?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by wlu_lax6 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:11 pm

Nice day by the Americans
Reyna, Westin, and Pulisic on the goal sheet.
Dest went 77 minutes in a shocking loss today, but was apparently the man of the match from one of the barca sites that post those things

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by tennbengal » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:46 pm

Excited to see how berkhalter finds a way to play none of them in qualifying...

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by tennbengal » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:30 pm

Oooooooo:


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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by mister d » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:32 pm

Was coming to post that same thing.
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by P.D.X. » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:42 pm

Who?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by rass » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:43 pm

I felt aswirl with warm secretions.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by tennbengal » Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:43 pm

McKennie. Dammit - tweet got pulled?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:10 pm

Ooooooo indeed

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by The Sybian » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:15 pm

rass wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:43 pm
Wow, that was pretty sweet. Suck it, Ronaldo and Messi, clear the stage for the pride of Little Elm. I read that he had a huge impact off the bench this weekend and scored the leveler in a 2-1 win. So excited for this group of kids to come together. I've felt this way a few times, but this time it's really going to happen! None of this Juan Aguadelo, Aaron Johanson, Brek Shea and Eddie Johnson bullshit, these guys are all doing it at big clubs in Europe.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by mister d » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:23 pm

Does Ronaldo ever score a non-penalty?
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by mister d » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:26 pm

Ronaldo goal map:
image.png
image.png (101.57 KiB) Viewed 331 times
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:44 pm

Yeah, Syb, feeling the same thing.

(Sorry if I mentioned the before) I used to moderate the Yanks Abroad forum on Bigsoccer. Back then, you could house the specific player's activities in about a dozen threads, and the last 4 or 5 of those were dudes in the Danish second division and shit like that.

To have so many young Americans not just playing in the power Euro leagues, but actually playing top roles is like being in another galaxy from the 90s.

And, hat tip to wlu-lax, but Grant Wahl's podcast on Freddy Adu is even more interesting in the current context. Freddy was a special talent and MLS fucked him up. But, really, things just weren't set up like they are now. It has taken a long time, but we are not set up to ID these young kids and get them in the acadamies and eventually in front of the right scouts.

Back in Freddy's day, none of this existed. Add to that, the Europeans had disdain for every aspect of an American's technical abilities and tactical knowledge. That still exists, but now the Euros get a handle on these kids at an age they figure they can work with. You hand a club an 18 year old, it's over for that guy. You get to a kids when he's 14, you've got hope.

The clubs that are striking up relationships with MLS teams are starting to make bank on transfers. That's what drives all of this. This was one of my biggest points back when I went all Opus when we didn't Q for Russia.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by tennbengal » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:16 pm


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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by mister d » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:41 pm

I know I'm not "Mister Soccer" so I don't anticipate anything close to how a lot of you do, but did you have any idea when that ball was crossed in that he was going to go all horizontal and shit? Just surprised the hell out of me on the first watch.
Steve of phpBB wrote:What are they going to do, though. Storm Congress? The Department of Justice building?

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:33 pm

.
Last edited by HaulCitgo on Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:34 pm

I'd say fantastic choice with the floating pass to allow him time to do it. Ordinarily that's a header if it's driven a bit more.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by P.D.X. » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:43 pm

It was about as perfectly tee'd up as you can get. That's exactly where you have guys toss balls to you in practice for that shot. Not to take anything away from him... he smashed it perfectly. Also a really easy shot to hit over the crossbar, have to almost over-correct to get your foot over it.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by wlu_lax6 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:48 pm

Also the fact he made the pass and the smart run to that space. I mean at least 60% of the time you see a top level pro try to hit that ball into a defender/over the goal/etc. instead of passing.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by The Sybian » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:49 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:44 pm
Yeah, Syb, feeling the same thing.

(Sorry if I mentioned the before) I used to moderate the Yanks Abroad forum on Bigsoccer. Back then, you could house the specific player's activities in about a dozen threads, and the last 4 or 5 of those were dudes in the Danish second division and shit like that.

To have so many young Americans not just playing in the power Euro leagues, but actually playing top roles is like being in another galaxy from the 90s.

And, hat tip to wlu-lax, but Grant Wahl's podcast on Freddy Adu is even more interesting in the current context. Freddy was a special talent and MLS fucked him up. But, really, things just weren't set up like they are now. It has taken a long time, but we are not set up to ID these young kids and get them in the acadamies and eventually in front of the right scouts.

Back in Freddy's day, none of this existed. Add to that, the Europeans had disdain for every aspect of an American's technical abilities and tactical knowledge. That still exists, but now the Euros get a handle on these kids at an age they figure they can work with. You hand a club an 18 year old, it's over for that guy. You get to a kids when he's 14, you've got hope.

The clubs that are striking up relationships with MLS teams are starting to make bank on transfers. That's what drives all of this. This was one of my biggest points back when I went all Opus when we didn't Q for Russia.
The funny thing, when I started to type my post, I was making fun of myself for getting excited, because I've gotten excited several times. When Landon, Beasley, Onyewu, Convey and the rest of the 1999 U-17 World Cup team made it to the semi-finals, I thought US Soccer had arrived. I thought Freddy Adu was going to be star. I was excited about all of the young attackers I mentioned before. Yes, I'm excited now about the group of young prospects, but I tried to talk myself down, but typing this out, fuck it, this actually IS different this time! All of those other guys were teenaged sensations in MLS, and other than Beasley, they all flamed out in Europe. Donovan did well late in his career on his loan stint at Everton, and Gooch did well in Belgium, but I don't think he even made an appearance during his 2 years at AC Milan.

The current bunch of kids is different, as they are at some of the biggest clubs in Europe, and they are all succeeding. Most went through big Euro club academies, which can't be said for any of the past prospects. Sure, we've had a handful of US-eligible kids play at academies, but none were ever on the radar. Oh, shit, I completely forgot about Gedion Zelalem! I was more excited about him than any individual player, especially when he signed with Arsenal. He immediately played in an FA Cup match and made the bench for an EPL match, then went on loan and flamed out at Rangers. Can't believe that was 6 years ago... What happened with him? Throw Julian Green into this basket, too.

This has been rehashed a million times, but a big issue with Adu (among many others) is he just physically developed so early, he dominated competition. I've always used that as a metric in assessing young players. Take Pulisic, he looked like a child among men when he came through at Dortmund and with the USMNT. Adu relied on physical traits to succeed early, while Pulisic relied on intelligence and skill (plus speed). I love that Pulisic played kids several years older when he was young, because he had to overcome his size and physical shortcomings by being smarter and better. As a kid, I played against several kids who looked like potential superstars and dominated games with their size and speed, but as the rest of us caught up in physical development, these kids had no ball skills or ideas beyond blowing past or through defenders, because that always worked when we were younger. Similarly, their teams just relied on bombing longballs to their single star player, and they never developed a passing game, and had no other ideas. All of the kids I'm excited about now have the skills and soccer IQ to go with the physical ability. Other times, I was excited about a single player, but now we have about a dozen guys. One flaming out or getting injured isn't going to derail this team.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am

And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.

Side note: I know I mentioned it many years ago, but Gedeon went to the high school I went to, and where my kids went. I saw just about every game he played for WJ, especially his senior year when they lost in the state final. The crazy thing about that team, they had Jeremy Ebobisse, who got a full ride at Duke and is now with Portland (reserves, after a year with the A squad.)

When I watched that team, Gedeon was clearly a cut above most every player, but he was also pretty small and didn't like to get stuck in. Jeremy was probably the more impressive player, in terms of the impact on the game. That team was probably the most tactically sound high school team I've seen. They weren't at a high club level, but for a high school team, they were very impressive.

Anyways, it's a bummer that Gedeon seems to have fizzled out. I guess my take on him was pretty skeptical, given the multiple times I saw him and was never really blown away.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by P.D.X. » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:39 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am
The crazy thing about that team, they had Jeremy Ebobisse, who got a full ride at Duke and is now with Portland (reserves, after a year with the A squad.)
Reserves? Nah. He was tied for lead scorer this season and latest rumors are he's about to get a transfer to a Belgian or Greek side. He's legit and gonna get call-ups.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:56 am

P.D.X. wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:39 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am
The crazy thing about that team, they had Jeremy Ebobisse, who got a full ride at Duke and is now with Portland (reserves, after a year with the A squad.)
Reserves? Nah. He was tied for lead scorer this season and latest rumors are he's about to get a transfer to a Belgian or Greek side. He's legit and gonna get call-ups.
Yeah, I didn't understand his Wiki page... like, at all. I remember seeing highlights with him recently. I misread where it had him play some with the reserves during the 2017-18 seasons. Thought maybe I'd missed an injury and recovery or something.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by The Sybian » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:07 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am
And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.

I think we've discussed it before, but this has changed down to the lowest level of coaching. Even my town travel program, the coaches at U-8 are drilled not to play long ball or rely on one player. I've seen it in most of the town programs I've coached against as well. Several ban goalies from punting or kicking long, and require players to play goal kicks out with short passes. They know they are going to get burned and give up some cheap goals, but their theory is that by the time the kids are 10, they will be comfortable playing out of the back. One team in particular, I debated telling my kids to crash the goalie on their goal kicks, because they went to the defender and back to the goalie every single time, and my daughter was the only one who caught on. After the 20th goal kick I got fed up with my team and yelled at them to pressure the goalie as soon as the pass was made. So frustrating that we weren't allowed to make cuts, we could have had a great travel team, but instead they drive the best players to academies and keep the kids who shouldn't be playing travel.

I've found that all coaches want to win, but almost across the board, they put player development before winning. The leagues require close to equal playing time up until U-12, and our town required equal playing time for all players. We had a strong rivalry with a team where every game was a tie or we lost by 1. My last time coaching against them, the coach called us the day before to let us know his daughter was double carded at an academy, and he usually doesn't let her play, but they were short handed. She was an attacking player, but he promised to only play her on defense. We told him she can legally play, so we had no problem with her playing anywhere on the field. I thought that was a class move, he had no reason to hold her back. Of course, she scored a free kick in injury time to tie the game at 1-1, but he kept her on defense the entire time.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:48 pm

Yeah, couple of things:

1) Nick and I were the last Volunteer/Dad coaches left in our local Rush program. All of the other coaches were paid and didn't have a familial tie to the team. We were one of the... Probably the last, but I don't know for sure... clubs to not have a fully professional coaching staff in our area.. Bethesda SC, Potomac FC pay their staff pretty well.

This makes a difference in a lot of ways, mostly good, some bad. Particularly the incentive can get fucked up if a coach is not getting results and the parents are now paying more money and the club wants trophies... That can lead to negative responses in the "win at all cost, screw player development" area.

But, what I've seen (or a least saw, i've been out of the game for 3 years or so) is that if expectations are set with the parents, that player development is the overriding goal, things are working quite well. There's now a lot more tension around academies "poaching" players, and to some extent clubs/academies banning high school play. But the overall professionalism of those coaching the kids has seen a dramatic shift the last decade or so.

=-=-=-=-=

What people that follow the sport casually don't understand is the MASSIVE influence the a Federation has over the entire sport in any given country. You've read about Germany and Iceland making a huge effort to overhaul their entire development system... The USSF sends out guidance to the coaching community every few years. The guidance they sent out about 4 years ago was a pretty big push to get young players to stop playing long ball, and to start the ball on the ground out of the back. Especially at the short-sided, young ages, the defending team had to back up to half-field on goal kicks. (This was before the rules where a defender can take a goal kick from the goalie inside the penalty area.)

This stuff matters.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by wlu_lax6 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:57 pm

It has been written by others, but the culture of the best coaching working with older teams versus younger teams is a big deal. In some countries being the young side is where you put your best.

Our club has gone hybrid. They get the best developing coaches to work with the little up and comers but give them an older team too to help with the coaches development, growth, and sanity.

One of our coaches is this guy . He tends to run sessions on Saturday mornings right after I play pickup. He is amazing to watch teach and train. I have taken to watch him for 10 or 15 minutes after we play because it is so impressive.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by elflaco2 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:07 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am
And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.

I think we've discussed it before, but this has changed down to the lowest level of coaching. Even my town travel program, the coaches at U-8 are drilled not to play long ball or rely on one player. I've seen it in most of the town programs I've coached against as well. Several ban goalies from punting or kicking long, and require players to play goal kicks out with short passes. They know they are going to get burned and give up some cheap goals, but their theory is that by the time the kids are 10, they will be comfortable playing out of the back. One team in particular, I debated telling my kids to crash the goalie on their goal kicks, because they went to the defender and back to the goalie every single time, and my daughter was the only one who caught on. After the 20th goal kick I got fed up with my team and yelled at them to pressure the goalie as soon as the pass was made. So frustrating that we weren't allowed to make cuts, we could have had a great travel team, but instead they drive the best players to academies and keep the kids who shouldn't be playing travel.

I've found that all coaches want to win, but almost across the board, they put player development before winning. The leagues require close to equal playing time up until U-12, and our town required equal playing time for all players. We had a strong rivalry with a team where every game was a tie or we lost by 1. My last time coaching against them, the coach called us the day before to let us know his daughter was double carded at an academy, and he usually doesn't let her play, but they were short handed. She was an attacking player, but he promised to only play her on defense. We told him she can legally play, so we had no problem with her playing anywhere on the field. I thought that was a class move, he had no reason to hold her back. Of course, she scored a free kick in injury time to tie the game at 1-1, but he kept her on defense the entire time.
having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.

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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by The Sybian » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:19 pm

elflaco2 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pm

having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.
I think the issue with high school soccer is that the best players are at academies, and often not allowed to play high school soccer. Before academies started to take off, most of the kids on a high school team played together for years on travel teams. Now that kids aren't playing club soccer with kids from the same town, they don't have all the experience and time playing together, so it makes sense that there is less of a passing game. When you have players who aren't as skilled, you are going to see a lot more physical play and long ball. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a sense that high school soccer is watered down from what it used to be. I think that may be changing, as more academy teams are allowing their players to play on high school teams. My understanding is that the US Development Academy limited the number of players clubs could allow to play for their schools. Now that the DA is gone, I think the restriction is gone.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by The Sybian » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:29 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:48 pm
The guidance they sent out about 4 years ago was a pretty big push to get young players to stop playing long ball, and to start the ball on the ground out of the back. Especially at the short-sided, young ages, the defending team had to back up to half-field on goal kicks. (This was before the rules where a defender can take a goal kick from the goalie inside the penalty area.)

This stuff matters.
Oh, the "build out line." I think it was a great idea in concept, but kids become ingrained that they have to run back 10 yards beyond the box every time the goalie picks up the ball or there is a goal kick. Last year my daughter aged out of the build out line, but her idiot coach didn't understand this and the professional trainer didn't really get the point across. Once the goalie picked up the ball, they all turned their backs and ran to where the build out line used to be (halfway between the 18 and the midfield line). Same with goal kicks. The coaches can yell at them 20 times to stand on the 18 and run on the kick, not when the defender touches it, but they are so programmed, they will go back to the buildout line the next time. Now that my daughter is at the academy level, a few of the girls on her team still turn and run too far back. It's infuriating, even seeing opposing teams doing this drives me nuts.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:52 pm

elflaco2 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pm
The Sybian wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:07 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am
And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.

I think we've discussed it before, but this has changed down to the lowest level of coaching. Even my town travel program, the coaches at U-8 are drilled not to play long ball or rely on one player. I've seen it in most of the town programs I've coached against as well. Several ban goalies from punting or kicking long, and require players to play goal kicks out with short passes. They know they are going to get burned and give up some cheap goals, but their theory is that by the time the kids are 10, they will be comfortable playing out of the back. One team in particular, I debated telling my kids to crash the goalie on their goal kicks, because they went to the defender and back to the goalie every single time, and my daughter was the only one who caught on. After the 20th goal kick I got fed up with my team and yelled at them to pressure the goalie as soon as the pass was made. So frustrating that we weren't allowed to make cuts, we could have had a great travel team, but instead they drive the best players to academies and keep the kids who shouldn't be playing travel.

I've found that all coaches want to win, but almost across the board, they put player development before winning. The leagues require close to equal playing time up until U-12, and our town required equal playing time for all players. We had a strong rivalry with a team where every game was a tie or we lost by 1. My last time coaching against them, the coach called us the day before to let us know his daughter was double carded at an academy, and he usually doesn't let her play, but they were short handed. She was an attacking player, but he promised to only play her on defense. We told him she can legally play, so we had no problem with her playing anywhere on the field. I thought that was a class move, he had no reason to hold her back. Of course, she scored a free kick in injury time to tie the game at 1-1, but he kept her on defense the entire time.
having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.
Yeah, that's why that WJ team was so special... It was a HS team playing sophisticated club ball. The team that actually won the state title had far less talent, but they had a target striker that could fuck up opposing D and enough savvy players around him to make them a deadly HS team. They would've gotten waxed by a decent EDP team.
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Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:01 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:19 pm
elflaco2 wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pm

having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.
I think the issue with high school soccer is that the best players are at academies, and often not allowed to play high school soccer. Before academies started to take off, most of the kids on a high school team played together for years on travel teams. Now that kids aren't playing club soccer with kids from the same town, they don't have all the experience and time playing together, so it makes sense that there is less of a passing game. When you have players who aren't as skilled, you are going to see a lot more physical play and long ball. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a sense that high school soccer is watered down from what it used to be. I think that may be changing, as more academy teams are allowing their players to play on high school teams. My understanding is that the US Development Academy limited the number of players clubs could allow to play for their schools. Now that the DA is gone, I think the restriction is gone.
I think this is probably a big part of it (academies), but...

1) The coaching is often very spotty. You've still got a lot of old heads that think Rt 1 is the only way... And a MASSIVE focus on being the most in shape team, often buoyed by a desire for the team to be "physical."

2) But here's a more fundamental issue: The coaches that actually want to run a system are severely hampered by the amount of time they have with the kids. A couple of weeks of pre-season, then you're right into the mix, and a lot of places, you can't really afford to shit out a bunch of losses to sort out your squad.

Overall, a high school coach has his kids from mid-August until about mid-November if they make a run at a state title. Realistically, it's about 10 weeks give or take. You take the talent you are dealt, and you try to scrabble together a style often with the cream of the crop gone. Tough gig.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.

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