Re: 2022 is a long way away USA Soccer Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:49 pm
Yeah but nice to have a big target and hold up is always important if teams don't concede possession easily.
It's the sixth version of The Swamp. What could possibly go wrong?
http://www.sportsfrog.net/phpbb/
This is a young team. Really just the same a the January MLS-only USMNT camp US soccer used to run. But no reason to pull out middle aged MLSers who have not shot of taking a place of a young Euro.The Sybian wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:00 pm Forgot about Acosta. I thought he was the future, then McKennie and Adams stepped up. Has Acosta not developed, or just displaced by better talent?
I recognize maybe 8 names on this list. Is it a lot of young guys, or just scraping the bottom of the barrel?
Wow, that was pretty sweet. Suck it, Ronaldo and Messi, clear the stage for the pride of Little Elm. I read that he had a huge impact off the bench this weekend and scored the leveler in a 2-1 win. So excited for this group of kids to come together. I've felt this way a few times, but this time it's really going to happen! None of this Juan Aguadelo, Aaron Johanson, Brek Shea and Eddie Johnson bullshit, these guys are all doing it at big clubs in Europe.
The funny thing, when I started to type my post, I was making fun of myself for getting excited, because I've gotten excited several times. When Landon, Beasley, Onyewu, Convey and the rest of the 1999 U-17 World Cup team made it to the semi-finals, I thought US Soccer had arrived. I thought Freddy Adu was going to be star. I was excited about all of the young attackers I mentioned before. Yes, I'm excited now about the group of young prospects, but I tried to talk myself down, but typing this out, fuck it, this actually IS different this time! All of those other guys were teenaged sensations in MLS, and other than Beasley, they all flamed out in Europe. Donovan did well late in his career on his loan stint at Everton, and Gooch did well in Belgium, but I don't think he even made an appearance during his 2 years at AC Milan.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:44 pm Yeah, Syb, feeling the same thing.
(Sorry if I mentioned the before) I used to moderate the Yanks Abroad forum on Bigsoccer. Back then, you could house the specific player's activities in about a dozen threads, and the last 4 or 5 of those were dudes in the Danish second division and shit like that.
To have so many young Americans not just playing in the power Euro leagues, but actually playing top roles is like being in another galaxy from the 90s.
And, hat tip to wlu-lax, but Grant Wahl's podcast on Freddy Adu is even more interesting in the current context. Freddy was a special talent and MLS fucked him up. But, really, things just weren't set up like they are now. It has taken a long time, but we are not set up to ID these young kids and get them in the acadamies and eventually in front of the right scouts.
Back in Freddy's day, none of this existed. Add to that, the Europeans had disdain for every aspect of an American's technical abilities and tactical knowledge. That still exists, but now the Euros get a handle on these kids at an age they figure they can work with. You hand a club an 18 year old, it's over for that guy. You get to a kids when he's 14, you've got hope.
The clubs that are striking up relationships with MLS teams are starting to make bank on transfers. That's what drives all of this. This was one of my biggest points back when I went all Opus when we didn't Q for Russia.
Reserves? Nah. He was tied for lead scorer this season and latest rumors are he's about to get a transfer to a Belgian or Greek side. He's legit and gonna get call-ups.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am The crazy thing about that team, they had Jeremy Ebobisse, who got a full ride at Duke and is now with Portland (reserves, after a year with the A squad.)
Yeah, I didn't understand his Wiki page... like, at all. I remember seeing highlights with him recently. I misread where it had him play some with the reserves during the 2017-18 seasons. Thought maybe I'd missed an injury and recovery or something.P.D.X. wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:39 amReserves? Nah. He was tied for lead scorer this season and latest rumors are he's about to get a transfer to a Belgian or Greek side. He's legit and gonna get call-ups.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am The crazy thing about that team, they had Jeremy Ebobisse, who got a full ride at Duke and is now with Portland (reserves, after a year with the A squad.)
I think we've discussed it before, but this has changed down to the lowest level of coaching. Even my town travel program, the coaches at U-8 are drilled not to play long ball or rely on one player. I've seen it in most of the town programs I've coached against as well. Several ban goalies from punting or kicking long, and require players to play goal kicks out with short passes. They know they are going to get burned and give up some cheap goals, but their theory is that by the time the kids are 10, they will be comfortable playing out of the back. One team in particular, I debated telling my kids to crash the goalie on their goal kicks, because they went to the defender and back to the goalie every single time, and my daughter was the only one who caught on. After the 20th goal kick I got fed up with my team and yelled at them to pressure the goalie as soon as the pass was made. So frustrating that we weren't allowed to make cuts, we could have had a great travel team, but instead they drive the best players to academies and keep the kids who shouldn't be playing travel.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.
having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:07 amI think we've discussed it before, but this has changed down to the lowest level of coaching. Even my town travel program, the coaches at U-8 are drilled not to play long ball or rely on one player. I've seen it in most of the town programs I've coached against as well. Several ban goalies from punting or kicking long, and require players to play goal kicks out with short passes. They know they are going to get burned and give up some cheap goals, but their theory is that by the time the kids are 10, they will be comfortable playing out of the back. One team in particular, I debated telling my kids to crash the goalie on their goal kicks, because they went to the defender and back to the goalie every single time, and my daughter was the only one who caught on. After the 20th goal kick I got fed up with my team and yelled at them to pressure the goalie as soon as the pass was made. So frustrating that we weren't allowed to make cuts, we could have had a great travel team, but instead they drive the best players to academies and keep the kids who shouldn't be playing travel.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.
I've found that all coaches want to win, but almost across the board, they put player development before winning. The leagues require close to equal playing time up until U-12, and our town required equal playing time for all players. We had a strong rivalry with a team where every game was a tie or we lost by 1. My last time coaching against them, the coach called us the day before to let us know his daughter was double carded at an academy, and he usually doesn't let her play, but they were short handed. She was an attacking player, but he promised to only play her on defense. We told him she can legally play, so we had no problem with her playing anywhere on the field. I thought that was a class move, he had no reason to hold her back. Of course, she scored a free kick in injury time to tie the game at 1-1, but he kept her on defense the entire time.
I think the issue with high school soccer is that the best players are at academies, and often not allowed to play high school soccer. Before academies started to take off, most of the kids on a high school team played together for years on travel teams. Now that kids aren't playing club soccer with kids from the same town, they don't have all the experience and time playing together, so it makes sense that there is less of a passing game. When you have players who aren't as skilled, you are going to see a lot more physical play and long ball. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a sense that high school soccer is watered down from what it used to be. I think that may be changing, as more academy teams are allowing their players to play on high school teams. My understanding is that the US Development Academy limited the number of players clubs could allow to play for their schools. Now that the DA is gone, I think the restriction is gone.elflaco2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pm
having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.
Oh, the "build out line." I think it was a great idea in concept, but kids become ingrained that they have to run back 10 yards beyond the box every time the goalie picks up the ball or there is a goal kick. Last year my daughter aged out of the build out line, but her idiot coach didn't understand this and the professional trainer didn't really get the point across. Once the goalie picked up the ball, they all turned their backs and ran to where the build out line used to be (halfway between the 18 and the midfield line). Same with goal kicks. The coaches can yell at them 20 times to stand on the 18 and run on the kick, not when the defender touches it, but they are so programmed, they will go back to the buildout line the next time. Now that my daughter is at the academy level, a few of the girls on her team still turn and run too far back. It's infuriating, even seeing opposing teams doing this drives me nuts.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:48 pm The guidance they sent out about 4 years ago was a pretty big push to get young players to stop playing long ball, and to start the ball on the ground out of the back. Especially at the short-sided, young ages, the defending team had to back up to half-field on goal kicks. (This was before the rules where a defender can take a goal kick from the goalie inside the penalty area.)
This stuff matters.
Yeah, that's why that WJ team was so special... It was a HS team playing sophisticated club ball. The team that actually won the state title had far less talent, but they had a target striker that could fuck up opposing D and enough savvy players around him to make them a deadly HS team. They would've gotten waxed by a decent EDP team.elflaco2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pmhaving watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:07 amI think we've discussed it before, but this has changed down to the lowest level of coaching. Even my town travel program, the coaches at U-8 are drilled not to play long ball or rely on one player. I've seen it in most of the town programs I've coached against as well. Several ban goalies from punting or kicking long, and require players to play goal kicks out with short passes. They know they are going to get burned and give up some cheap goals, but their theory is that by the time the kids are 10, they will be comfortable playing out of the back. One team in particular, I debated telling my kids to crash the goalie on their goal kicks, because they went to the defender and back to the goalie every single time, and my daughter was the only one who caught on. After the 20th goal kick I got fed up with my team and yelled at them to pressure the goalie as soon as the pass was made. So frustrating that we weren't allowed to make cuts, we could have had a great travel team, but instead they drive the best players to academies and keep the kids who shouldn't be playing travel.Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:16 am And your last paragraph is why American soccer stayed where it was until the last decade or so. American "coaching" and "tactics" that valued scoring goals with almost zero understanding of the game. You had guys way up the coaching chain that barely got their license and absolutely didn't understand player development.
I've found that all coaches want to win, but almost across the board, they put player development before winning. The leagues require close to equal playing time up until U-12, and our town required equal playing time for all players. We had a strong rivalry with a team where every game was a tie or we lost by 1. My last time coaching against them, the coach called us the day before to let us know his daughter was double carded at an academy, and he usually doesn't let her play, but they were short handed. She was an attacking player, but he promised to only play her on defense. We told him she can legally play, so we had no problem with her playing anywhere on the field. I thought that was a class move, he had no reason to hold her back. Of course, she scored a free kick in injury time to tie the game at 1-1, but he kept her on defense the entire time.
I think this is probably a big part of it (academies), but...The Sybian wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:19 pmI think the issue with high school soccer is that the best players are at academies, and often not allowed to play high school soccer. Before academies started to take off, most of the kids on a high school team played together for years on travel teams. Now that kids aren't playing club soccer with kids from the same town, they don't have all the experience and time playing together, so it makes sense that there is less of a passing game. When you have players who aren't as skilled, you are going to see a lot more physical play and long ball. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a sense that high school soccer is watered down from what it used to be. I think that may be changing, as more academy teams are allowing their players to play on high school teams. My understanding is that the US Development Academy limited the number of players clubs could allow to play for their schools. Now that the DA is gone, I think the restriction is gone.elflaco2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 pm
having watched heck of a lot of NJ high school soccer this fall... route 1 soccer is still the way... far too many long balls and headers back and forth. physical play is prized above technique and the refs are better than travel but far below EDP... our HS won their state division -- and it was exciting.. but not pretty. frustrating for those w actual talent -- and it wasn't just ours (which is surprising considering the coach) but didn't' see one game where either team was putting more than 10 passes together.