Canadian Politics Thread

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Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:48 pm

as requested

The PC Ontario Race is crazy



This Ontario Conservative leadership race is insane. If you recall, this 6 week campaign was triggered by the ex-leader Patrick Brown having to resign due to sexual harassment allegations. He actually entered the race to replace himself for 2 days before backing out.

Now we think Doug Ford has won (Rob Ford's brother!) but there is a recount and it's being contested because in a ranking vote system, where do the latter rounds votes go? In which riding do they re-distributed to? The person who wins the most riding points wins. There are 124 ridings and each riding is worth 100 points. The 100 points are given proportionally to each candidate. But some votes have been allocated to the wrong riding or if the last place person gets dropped for the following round, where to those votes go? So yes they can win without winning the popular votes (sound familiar?)

It seems way more complicated then it should be. Also this was an electronic vote so it seems strange that a computer program cannot allocate votes properly.

It's going to announced soon (after 4 hours of waiting) that 'the party is not in a position to announce the result'
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:09 pm

I'm waiting for a riot. They are going to make an announcement that people need to literally clear the room. The hotel is booked for another event at 7pm and people need to GTFO. It's now 7:10.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:04 pm

There has NEVER been a leadership campaign run this poorly anywhere in the world.. at any time.

Just Ontario politics, but if you are interested in politics, you should read\ up on this absolute farce.

Oh Man, This Is Heading To Court

Just a hint of the insanity you will read about - the party chiefs were still counting votes and dealing with pissed off candidates' lawyers when the owners of the hall told them to wrap it up - a wedding party had been previously booked for 5 o'clock!

And Rob Ford's idiot (but not as dumb as him) brother is most likely the party leader. A dime-store populist who rails against "elites" and who dealt hash as a high-school bully, Doug Ford is literally the only thing that can keep our remarkably unpopular Premier in power.

The joke is that Ford's campaign slogan will be "Make Ontario Great Again." I have a feeling that this will not be a joke for very long.

fuck.

Imagine if your choice of Governor was between a slimy , proven incompetent incumbent, a three-time loser who has the personal appeal of one ply toilet paper and a guy who'd blow Trump if he could. That is what we are facing.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Christine Elliott got more votes and won more ridings but lost on points.
She's decided to concede and not go to court.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:35 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm
Christine Elliott got more votes and won more ridings but lost on points.
She's decided to concede and not go to court.
Who devised that system? Wow.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:50 am

Still shaking my head...
On the third and final ballot, Ms. Elliott had won 53 per cent of the popular vote and the most votes in a majority of ridings. Mr. Ford, however, had received a higher score based on the party's system that gave candidates points for each riding.

In the end, Mr. Ford had 6,202 points while Ms. Elliott captured 6,049 points.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:46 pm

God help us...

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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by brian » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:57 pm

Not sure I want to hear you guys bitch about the Electoral College ever again.

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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:47 pm

brian wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:57 pm
Not sure I want to hear you guys bitch about the Electoral College ever again.
Do bear in mind that Ford was just nominated under a party's bizarre, hastily drafted nominating rules.

We'll talk after the Provincial election. But yeah... I get your point.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:52 pm

It's way worse in Canada than in the States. The Electoral College or a Points system is one thing. The thing that is worse is a preferential/ranked ballot. The Conservatives do this so that tens of thousands of people can vote electronically instead of a few thousand physically at a convention center. But then they elect shitty leaders. The best candidate never ever wins on a preferential ballot because they will rarely be ranked 2nd on their opponents ballot. Unless the favorite wins a majority on the first ballot, he/she will get ganged up on subsequent ballots.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:57 pm

A truly moronic innovation in voting.

And now they are stuck with just about the only adult human in the province who could possibly lose to our Premier - Kathleen ("19% Approval rating") Wynne.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:03 pm

There's Horvath! NDP!
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:56 am

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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:12 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm
Christine Elliott got more votes and won more ridings but lost on points.
She's decided to concede and not go to court.

What's a riding? Is that like a voting district?
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by P.D.X. » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:15 pm

Politics or curling, ammirite?

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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:16 pm

Jagmeet Kisses Hindu Vote Buh-Bye

But wearing a turban, it's doubtful he would have got the Hindu vote anyway.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:16 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:12 pm
degenerasian wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm
Christine Elliott got more votes and won more ridings but lost on points.
She's decided to concede and not go to court.

What's a riding? Is that like a voting district?
Parliamentary system - so a riding is like a Congressional district.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:20 pm

I'm so confused... So, what role has Ford been elected to? The equivalent of governor of Ontario? And this Wynne person now steps in to run for Mayor of Toronto?

Shit, if folks in the US had to follow this there'd be 7 votes cast.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:33 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:20 pm
I'm so confused... So, what role has Ford been elected to? The equivalent of governor of Ontario? And this Wynne person now steps in to run for Mayor of Toronto?

Shit, if folks in the US had to follow this there'd be 7 votes cast.
Wynne is Premier (think Governor) of Ontario. Head of the Ontario Liberal Party.

Doug Ford has just been made head of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party and will lead the party against Wynne's Liberals in the Provincial election in June.

He ran for Mayor four years ago after his brother Rob was too ill to run. He lost 40% - 33%. Political parties are officially banned from municipal politics in Toronto.

This Should Explain Things
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:04 pm

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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:23 pm

Cannibis vote might die in the Senate

Trudeau's push for more independent Senators will screw him up today.
The government's cannabis bill faces outright defeat in the Senate today if it can't secure enough support from members of the Red Chamber.

According to an agreed timetable, senators will hold a vote at second reading of the bill today. If the opposition Tories cobble together enough votes to defeat C-45, the legislation would be effectively dead — meaning the government would have to restart the entire legislative process in the House.

If that happens, a summer timeline for legalization becomes much less likely.

Most Independent and Liberal senators generally support the bill, and together they hold 54 of the chamber's 93 occupied seats. But that doesn't guarantee that all of those members will vote together as a block or be present when the vote is recorded.

New senators have been appointed as Independents — leaving the Liberal government with no mechanism to whip votes or force them to attend sittings in the chamber.

Moreover, two Senate committees are on the road: members of the agriculture committee are meeting with stakeholders in Calgary, while the Aboriginal peoples committee is in Winnipeg. That means as many as 20 senators — most of them Independent — will be out of the mix today when a vote is held. Others, like Independent Quebec Sen. Jacques Demers, are not expected to be in attendance because of illness.
Yes that is former NHL coach Jacques Demers.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by sancarlos » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:17 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:23 pm
Cannibis vote might die in the Senate

Trudeau's push for more independent Senators will screw him up today.
The government's cannabis bill faces outright defeat in the Senate today if it can't secure enough support from members of the Red Chamber.

According to an agreed timetable, senators will hold a vote at second reading of the bill today. If the opposition Tories cobble together enough votes to defeat C-45, the legislation would be effectively dead — meaning the government would have to restart the entire legislative process in the House.

If that happens, a summer timeline for legalization becomes much less likely.

Most Independent and Liberal senators generally support the bill, and together they hold 54 of the chamber's 93 occupied seats. But that doesn't guarantee that all of those members will vote together as a block or be present when the vote is recorded.

New senators have been appointed as Independents — leaving the Liberal government with no mechanism to whip votes or force them to attend sittings in the chamber.

Moreover, two Senate committees are on the road: members of the agriculture committee are meeting with stakeholders in Calgary, while the Aboriginal peoples committee is in Winnipeg. That means as many as 20 senators — most of them Independent — will be out of the mix today when a vote is held. Others, like Independent Quebec Sen. Jacques Demers, are not expected to be in attendance because of illness.
Yes that is former NHL coach Jacques Demers.
Jacques Demers' Wiki entry wrote:On November 2, 2005, Jacques Demers released a biography, written by Mario Leclerc, entitled En toutes lettres (English translation: All Spelled Out), in which he revealed that he is functionally illiterate. According to Demers, he never really learned to read or write because of his abusive childhood in Montreal. He covered for himself by asking secretaries and public relations people to read letters for him, claiming he couldn't read English well enough to understand them (though he speaks English and French equally well). When he served as general manager of the Lightning, he brought in Cliff Fletcher and Jay Feaster as his assistants. As it turned out, they did most of the work a general manager would normally do because he knew he couldn't do it himself.[5]
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:11 pm

I was going to post that Demers fact.

A tribute to the man that he admitted such a thing late in life.

I imagine that Demers can read by now. But even if he was still illiterate, he'd most likely be more capable than 3/4s of the human dregs that make up our Senate. Unelected - modelled after the UK's House of Lords (but no aristocratic landowners) filled with party hacks, a few minor celebrities and former journalists and a number of tokens.

The Guy Justin Trudeau Pummelled In The Boxing Ring

Since I was a kid, the Senate has been seen as a joke except by the piggies who feed at its trough - Canada's best pension is a membership in the "Red Chamber." These guys will do what the government wants if they know what's good for them and their retirement plans.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:08 pm

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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:16 pm

Pruitt:

It was interesting watching CTV's Question Period today, they had with Nik Nanos, Craig Oliver, Joyce Napier and others and they were talking about the poll crash by the Liberals, and they all mentioned the same thing.

While people justifiable look at the India trip as very un pm like, and the lack of openness in terms of their national security advisor, that's only really one factor in why Trudeau's numbers have plummeted.

They are sick of hearing Trudeau talking about nothing that resonates. While Trudeau is talking far left in terms of social engineering topics with things like Gender, and gun control etc, he's done nothing to sell what Canadian's perceive as a confusing and poor budget and not enough emphasis is being put on talking to the middle class about what they find is important, which is how to make their lives better dollars wise.

That are tired of a Prime Minister that governs at "30,000" feet and there is a certain amount of perception that Trudeau is playing the wealthy playboy too much with his vacations and trips about nothing (as an add on, it doesn't help that his last three trips to India, Saudia Arabia and China were disasters).

They hinted at too many broken promises, and his integrity is starting to be questioned.

A large chunk of the voters that have moved away from the Liberals are men, they are still resonating with woman, but men are tired of feeling like they are being lectured by the government.

The votes that are leaving Trudeau in these polls are not going to the NDP and their leader because his bonifides are worse, they are going to the Conservatives.

They all agreed that the Liberals need an outright win on NAFTA, if they don't get it, they will lose any momentum heading into the next election, which means that NAFTA is going to be a battleground topic in the next election.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:03 pm

Can't disagree with any of that.

A certain amount of it can be chalked up to a post-"honeymoon" scenario, but Trudeau keeps banging the social issues drum (and I agree with him on just about all of it) while our top trading partner is being run by lunatics. I understand that you don't want to prod an insane elephant, but the silence is deafening.

On a personal level, he's starting to acquire a gloss of slime - good old fashioned politician slime, but slime nonetheless.

The election is a long way away, but with Alberta and BC sniping at each other, and his #1 fan Kathleen Wynne heading for her next gig teaching PoliSci at a 3rd rate community college, he'd be well advised to stop taking expensive family vacations and start impressing more tan the 18-25 year old demographic.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:50 pm

Canadians’ love affair with Justin Trudeau is over

Long way to the next election, but this sums it up nicely...
For critics such as columnist Andrew Coyne of the National Post who see Trudeau as charming but an intellectual lightweight, the India trip simply proved their outlook. “The little things that seemed so charming at first, all those dashing gestures and glam photo ops might well come to seem, at first frivolous, then irritating — an impression of unseriousness compounded by a series of bungled foreign-policy excursions of which the India trip was only the last,” Coyne wrote.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:47 am

It's on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4610626

Here's Alberta Premier Notley's statement:
“Albertans have been clear – get this pipeline built. And Albertans are right – this pipeline must be built.
“Tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars to the economy depend upon it. So do better schools and hospitals.
“Kinder Morgan has put a deadline of May 31 in place and I regret that the company is frustrated by not knowing on how many more legal fronts it will need to fight.
“We have won a series of important and decisive legal victories. The courts threw out B.C.’s last case without even hearing it. And I am confident we will continue to win.
“Federal Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr has called on the Government of British Columbia to suspend all threats of delay to the Trans Mountain expansion. Those are strong words, but we need more. We are calling on the federal government to act in the defence of Alberta and working people in Western Canada.
“As well, I have two things to say to British Columbia.
“First, Premier Horgan believes he can harass this project without economic consequences for his province. He is wrong. We will be bringing forward legislation in coming days giving our government the powers it needs to impose serious economic consequences on B.C. if its government continues on its present course.
“Second, Premier Horgan believes he can harass the investors and managers of Kinder Morgan, that they will give up, and that this will kill this project. He is wrong here as well.”
“Alberta is prepared to do whatever it takes to get this pipeline built – including taking a public position in the pipeline. Alberta is prepared to be an investor in the pipeline.
“If we take that step, we will be a significantly more determined investor.
“This pipeline will be built.”
Trudeau is suddenly in a bad position in his environmental file. The Carbon Tax is starting to flounder, with Manitoba telling him to back off, Saskatchewan not going along, and two possible governments coming in that are going to go against him in Alberta and Saskatchewan. The Atlantic provinces are also making noise about not playing along.

Frankly the Environmental Minister blundered when she was asked about what kind of reduction in emissions would come with the carbon tax and she basically lashed out in a huff. The Feds have done a poor job of selling the Carbon Tax.

So it stands to reason, if Trudeau is losing the environmental file and his base is filled with environmentalists, sitting on the sidelines and doing as little as possible to save the Transmountain pipeline will kind of make sense and he can frame Alberta and Kinder Morgan as unreasonable since he doesn't need to care about Alberta votes.

I would be extremely shocked if this project goes ahead at this point, Kinder Morgan has given a 50 day deadline that probably can't be met.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:16 pm

Scathing Takedown of Trudeau's Foreign Policy

In the Globe and Mail - for you non-Canadian types, it is not a reactionary or right wing paper. Very centrist.
Was Mr. Trudeau really ever that interested in the hard work needed to enhance Canada’s influence on the world stage, especially if it involved taking any political risks? During the 14 months that Stéphane Dion served as his Foreign Affairs minister, Mr. Trudeau held only a single face-to-face meeting with him, according to a new book by former Dion adviser Jocelyn Coulon. And that meeting only happened because the two men were stuck on a flight to Europe together.
I fear that we are being led by an empty suit.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:38 pm

This is getting really dumb

The coast does not belong to BC, it belongs to Canada. They cannot deny the rest of the country access to tide water

BC cannot deny anyone access to the ocean, that's a constitutional thing. Canada in the early days could have sent in the army to seize ports.

Basically if BC decides to continue to say its BC's coast, then Alberta would equally be in the rights to say, its our territory and deny BC access to it.

That's what this whole constitutional thing is about, BC is basically running an illegal blockade.

As soon as Horgan started using the term BC's coast or our coast, Trudeau should have gone on TV and said "Look potato head, do I need to give you a lesson in how the constitution and confederation works, really?"

I pretty much think that there is zero common ground between Alberta, BC and Ottawa, its good that they're meeting but Horgan's victory position here is to come out with no change, and hold out for the next 45 days. I doubt he's going to cave.

Why would he give in so close to the end game? The only way Alberta wins this is if they either get Horgan to completely fold his cards, or find a way to convince Kinder Morgan to extend, but I don't believe Kinder Morgan is going to buckle on anything, unless the Government gives them a massive check to continue.

Ottawa isn't in a position to win this anymore. No wait, check that, they can do what they need to do to give themselves the best chance to win the next election.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Typical Albertan.

(I kid, I kid)

Deafening silence from Ottawa until very recently, wouldn;t you say?
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by A_B » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:36 pm

Access to the ocean is in the constitution?
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:53 pm

A_B wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:36 pm
Access to the ocean is in the constitution?
Couldn't tell you... however, the federal Government has the right to override provincial regulations in certain cases where the national interest is at stake.

Can't really remember this power being used.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:37 pm

Grrr, so now the Liberals will give Kinder Morgan money to build the pipeline that BC is still opposed to.

So the carbon tax was agreed upon on the basis that the pipelines would be built, offsetting the added tax burden by creating a more stable job environment. Now, taxpayers have to foot the carbon tax PLUS pay for the pipelines.

What a mess.
A_B wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:36 pm
Access to the ocean is in the constitution?
Not necessarily the ocean but the pipeline is a federal project spanning multiple provinces.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:01 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:37 pm
Grrr, so now the Liberals will give Kinder Morgan money to build the pipeline that BC is still opposed to.

So the carbon tax was agreed upon on the basis that the pipelines would be built, offsetting the added tax burden by creating a more stable job environment. Now, taxpayers have to foot the carbon tax PLUS pay for the pipelines.

What a mess.
That is the most Canadian solution possible.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:43 pm

Alberta has introduced Bill 12 that would allow them to reduce oil flow.
Once passed, Marg McCuaig-Boyd would be able to direct truckers, pipeline companies and rail operators on how much product could be shipped and when.

Violaters would face fines of up to $1 million a day for individuals and $10 million a day for a corporation.
Also House of Commons has called an 'emergency debate' tonight in regards to this pipeline stuff.
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:46 pm

degenerasian wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:43 pm
Alberta has introduced Bill 12 that would allow them to reduce oil flow.
Once passed, Marg McCuaig-Boyd would be able to direct truckers, pipeline companies and rail operators on how much product could be shipped and when.

Violaters would face fines of up to $1 million a day for individuals and $10 million a day for a corporation.
Also House of Commons has called an 'emergency debate' tonight in regards to this pipeline stuff.
Article in the Globe this weekend said that Trudeau might get 2 seats west of Ontario in the next election.

Just like his daddy!
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Pruitt » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:25 am

We have seen many cases of pre-election polls being very wrong...

But this is as definitive a result as I have ever seen...

Ontario Conservatives with 93% Chance of Majority Government

A very good chance that the Liberal party which has (mis) run Ontario for the past 15 years will be decimated and will lose "official party" status. Meaning a loss of resources (money and staff) as well as not even having the right to ask a question during Question Period.
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degenerasian
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by degenerasian » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:22 am

Pruitt wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:25 am
We have seen many cases of pre-election polls being very wrong...

But this is as definitive a result as I have ever seen...

Ontario Conservatives with 93% Chance of Majority Government

A very good chance that the Liberal party which has (mis) run Ontario for the past 15 years will be decimated and will lose "official party" status. Meaning a loss of resources (money and staff) as well as not even having the right to ask a question during Question Period.
If Ford and Kenny win their respective elections, there's going to be a nasty battle over the carbon tax, especially if anything happens to TransX. With Manitoba, Saskatchewan and part of the Atlantic basically telling the Liberal's to back off.
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Nonlinear FC
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Re: Canadian Politics Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:24 am

Guys... Question Time?

Is this Blue's Clues or something?
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