World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Nonlinear FC
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Nonlinear FC »

So, the bottom line with goal keeping in any sport is that you want to be in a position where you are only as far off your goal line so that you can reasonably expect to cover your near post and far post. It's called cutting down the angle. Think about an arc that starts about a yard outside of each post and then extends about 5-6 yards away from the center line of the goal. Wherever the shot is coming from, you are sliding along this imaginary arc. Yu want to be squared up with the shooter taking away BOTH posts. The sharper the angle and the closer the shooter, the more you can take away the near post, because as shot from a sharp angle at the farpost is much easier to save... no real angle.

Positioning gets much more complicated when the player with the ball can shoot from distance, but could also cross the ball. In that instance, yes, a goalie should be inviting a distance shot at the nearpost by cheating more towards the middle of the goal. A) That's a very low percentage shot, even from the best players. B) You want to be in a position to come off your line in a forward trajectory, not backpedaling... Backpedaling is the worst for a soccer goalie. Gives us the hives. And I will amend that to say at the highest levels, they have to be very careful cheating too much when they have the ball on their feet 30 yards out. One more dribble and a good shot and the goalie is fucked. But if they see you constantly guarding the near post from 35 yards out? They're going to backdoor you all day.

Finally, where I will say that a lot of goalies DO cheat one way or another, mainly to invite a shot to a certain said and to play mindgames is on PKs. You give the guy a look at a more open side and hope he goes for it, then you start sliding to cover that while he's in his run-up. There's a LOT more cat and mouse that goes on, but I don't feel like typing it all out.
Last edited by Nonlinear FC on Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by wlu_lax6 »

So whiny team trying to throw official under the bus?
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:17 pm So, the bottom line with goal keeping in any sport is that you want to ...
Right, I'm talking only about PKs here. But I also might be overrating the difficulty of slamming one into the open corner or just how much higher a save percentage would be focusing on a smaller segment.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Media gonna figure out a way to blame that howler from the keeper on Messi.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by sancarlos »

Wow. If that's the only goal of the game, the keeper might as well never go back to Argentina.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by brian »

Argies finally playing with a sense of urgency now though. Could be a fun 30 minutes.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Joe K »

Can someone who knows more than I do about soccer (i.e., basically anyone on this board) explain how it’s even possible that Argentina has only 3 goals in its last 600+ minutes of World Cup play? With the attacking talent they have, why wouldn’t they play a much more aggressive style and challenge teams to beat them in a wide open game?
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by brian »

This one has "Argentina lucks into a late equalizer" all over it.

As to Joe's question, I can't answer that. It doesn't make any sense.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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This is basically Nazis vs Nazis, right?
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

It's tough to play an Aggresive style. Argentina with all the talent may not have the stamina to win balls in a pressing style.
Maradona tried this in 2010 and Germany crushed them 4-0 in the quarters.

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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:34 pm This one has "Argentina lucks into a late equalizer" all over it.

As to Joe's question, I can't answer that. It doesn't make any sense.
LOL, Argy. Maybe not.

So if Iceland beats Nigeria tomorrow, you'll have two UEFA teams playing to a gentleman's agreement draw next week.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Otamendi should have been sent off.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm
brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:34 pm This one has "Argentina lucks into a late equalizer" all over it.

As to Joe's question, I can't answer that. It doesn't make any sense.
LOL, Argy. Maybe not.

So if Iceland beats Nigeria tomorrow, you'll have two UEFA teams playing to a gentleman's agreement draw next week.
I'd like to avoid France if I were them. Not to worry though. This Argentina team will struggle against Nigeria.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Nonlinear FC »

mister d wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:25 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:17 pm So, the bottom line with goal keeping in any sport is that you want to ...
Right, I'm talking only about PKs here. But I also might be overrating the difficulty of slamming one into the open corner or just how much higher a save percentage would be focusing on a smaller segment.
Ok, well, see my last paragraph then. If you cheat as much as your number diagram says, the only way to get over there is to what I said which is to start moving laterally while the guy is on his run up. There's NO WAY a goalie could dive to cover that open side and it's not that difficult for a decent player to hit it with the inside of the foot (essentially a very hard pass/shot with the inside of the foot.)

Standing over there and not moving, you are giving up a goal, unless you are mindfucking the guy significantly.

At that level, the entire exercise is mental. Especially during the run of play, when it's going to be their best guy taking the kick. It's about tendencies and then about subtle things like shading to one side, faking a move one way to get in his head on the run-up... As a goalie, your trying to gather clues looking at their run-up, their hip angle, maybe a glance they didn't think you could see.
Last edited by Nonlinear FC on Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by brian »

I'm not sure Iceland cares. It's the perfect storm for the agreed draw. Croatia wins the group and Iceland gets to move on, which is a huge win for their FA and country. Plus, they match up pretty well with France. They could definitely frustrate them on defense and punish on the counter.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Baloney »

brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm
brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:34 pm This one has "Argentina lucks into a late equalizer" all over it.

As to Joe's question, I can't answer that. It doesn't make any sense.
LOL, Argy. Maybe not.

So if Iceland beats Nigeria tomorrow, you'll have two UEFA teams playing to a gentleman's agreement draw next week.
The reason why the last group games are played simultaneously is just because of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:46 pm I'm not sure Iceland cares. It's the perfect storm for the agreed draw. Croatia wins the group and Iceland gets to move on, which is a huge win for their FA and country. Plus, they match up pretty well with France. They could definitely frustrate them on defense and punish on the counter.
How does Iceland match up well with France? France crushed them 5-2 two years ago.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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I don't think that was indicative of how well they can play defensively.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Holy shit, man.

This isn't 7-1 in the final, but holy shit.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

I think a bunch of controllers got disconnected there for Argentina
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:50 pm I don't think that was indicative of how well they can play defensively.
True, it's the early goal that breaks teams. France got it in 2016.
Playing Denmark would be much easier though, that game would be even.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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I need to find this jacket:

And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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That 3rd goal could end up massive.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

Also, why have VAR if you can't use it when a situation warrants it? Otamendi should have been sent off for that nonsense late in the game.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by sancarlos »

brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm So if Iceland beats Nigeria tomorrow, you'll have two UEFA teams playing to a gentleman's agreement draw next week.
And, if Nigeria beats Iceland, then you could see a hell of a game when Argentina takes on Nigeria.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by brian »

sancarlos wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:54 pm
brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:39 pm So if Iceland beats Nigeria tomorrow, you'll have two UEFA teams playing to a gentleman's agreement draw next week.
And, if Nigeria beats Iceland, then you could see a hell of a game when Argentina takes on Nigeria.
True, it'll be balls out. Iceland-Nigeria draw, which is a not unlikely result, would basically mean the same thing.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by P.D.X. »

degenerasian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:54 pm Also, why have VAR if you can't use it when a situation warrants it? Otamendi should have been sent off for that nonsense late in the game.
I'm not sure if they're using the same criteria as MLS, but yellow cards aren't stipulated as being reviewable.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:51 am Peru's coach looks like pre-transition Bruce Jenner.
Had the same thought.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Joe K wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:21 pm Can someone who knows more than I do about soccer (i.e., basically anyone on this board) explain how it’s even possible that Argentina has only 3 goals in its last 600+ minutes of World Cup play? With the attacking talent they have, why wouldn’t they play a much more aggressive style and challenge teams to beat them in a wide open game?
Horrible coaching.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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brian wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:42 pm Otamendi should have been sent off.
Yes
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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govmentchedda wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:19 pm
Joe K wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:21 pm Can someone who knows more than I do about soccer (i.e., basically anyone on this board) explain how it’s even possible that Argentina has only 3 goals in its last 600+ minutes of World Cup play? With the attacking talent they have, why wouldn’t they play a much more aggressive style and challenge teams to beat them in a wide open game?
Horrible coaching.
Yep - brutally bad systems.

One way to look at it is that those attacking players each play in a different formation, system and at different offensive tempos at their clubs. A good coach is the one who builds a national team to play a specific style... properly.

Considering the problems Argentina had in qualifying (and the Comnebol qualifiers go on and on - 18 games I think) it is astounding that they couldn't come up with a way to get at least something close to the best out of those attackers.

But Argentina's defending is abysmal, and the experts pointed to it as being an achilles heel going into the tournament. That was more than just a bad game by Argentina, it was a lazy, disgusting performance. On the 3rd goal, Mascherano standing still with his arm raised while 3 Croatians moved in for the kill is one of the worst things I have seen on a field.

ETA: Exclusive of diving and brutal fouls of course.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Well, VAR got that one right overturning the penalty call. It wasn't the most blatant dive ever but it wasn't penalty contact, either.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by degenerasian »

Great use of VAR. Neymar's was not pulled back.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by A_B »

Navas is gonna be worn out after this one.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Both teams are playing b.s. soccer. Ref should have handed out yellows early to get a handle on the diving and acting. He has made the job hard for himself because of the acting. Good no calls and the VAR but by not stopping the foolishness it is making a very choppy game.

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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Bullshit tactics from CRC hand them a 2-0 loss.

Good. I normally pull for Concacaf, but fuck that shit.

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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Oh get up Neymar, you fucking douche canoe.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

Post by Rex »

With Costa Rica games, I constantly find myself veering between anger at what I'm watching and smug satisfaction that someone else is getting CONCACAF'd. Then I just convince myself afterwards that the final result is what I was rooting for.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Rex wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:21 am With Costa Rica games, I constantly find myself veering between anger at what I'm watching and smug satisfaction that someone else is getting CONCACAF'd. Then I just convince myself afterwards that the final result is what I was rooting for.
The thing is, they are better than this. They can play a really exciting style when they want to. They apparently just lacked any kind of confidence.
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Re: World Cup 2018 --Pre and Group Stages

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Injury (knock) to Matarrita has cost them dearly.
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