2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

Moderators: Shirley, Sabo, brian, rass, DaveInSeattle

Post Reply
User avatar
Brontoburglar
The Dude
Posts: 5851
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:20 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Brontoburglar »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way
an NFL defense can assemble in whatever way it wants before the snap

eta: the hockey comparisons don't make sense to me at all. the shift is a predictive reaction before the play.
"We're not the smartest people in the world. We go down the straightaway and turn left. That's literally what we do." -- Clint Bowyer
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Baseball isn't a run of play, ball turnover sport, so obviously the parallels obviously aren't perfect. The point is that rules are created or added to create better gameplay even if it thwarts intelligent strategy.

Defensive players in the NFL can't simulate the QBs signals, right? I'm sure the first person to do that was pretty effective.
Last edited by mister d on Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
brian
The Dude
Posts: 27740
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Downtown Las Vegas

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by brian »

A similar hockey comparison might be changing the rules in hockey to be like field hockey (?) where players designated as defense cannot enter the offensive zone and players designated as offense cannot enter the defensive zone.

Of course, that would be dumb as shit, but so is telling MLB defenses where they can stand before the pitch.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

I spelled parallels wrong 3 different times in that post above.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Standing 5 feet in front of the hitter and daring him to kill you is also a legal position. MLB would write a rule to stop if if someone decided to make it their strategy. Reasoning is different, but the absolute "teams can innovate but the rules can't react" concept is dumb to me.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
Ryan
The Dude
Posts: 10439
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:01 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Ryan »

Brontoburglar wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:45 pm
mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm Counterpoint: No other sport plays this way
an NFL defense can assemble in whatever way it wants before the snap
And if they started putting 11 guys up over the center all the time and the QB could only get a throw off 15 times a game, they would ban it in about 43 seconds.
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The

holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
User avatar
degenerasian
The Dude
Posts: 12302
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:22 pm

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by degenerasian »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:58 pm Standing 5 feet in front of the hitter and daring him to kill you is also a legal position. MLB would write a rule to stop if if someone decided to make it their strategy. Reasoning is different, but the absolute "teams can innovate but the rules can't react" concept is dumb to me.
That's a position in cricket. Short-leg. Stand 5 feet from the batter and catch with your barehands!
Kung Fu movies are like porn. There's 1 on 1, then 2 on 1, then a group scene..
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Another non-rule that would become a rule if exploited is unlimited foul balls. 12 pitch PAs are cool because 12 pitch PAs are rare. If that became a thing, they'd make it not a thing.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
brian
The Dude
Posts: 27740
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Downtown Las Vegas

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by brian »

I don't agree with the premise that the rules are sacrosanct and shouldn't ever be altered. I also don't agree with the premise that teams using technology/strategy to eliminate a single a game are dealing a death blow to Baseball As We Know It.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
User avatar
brian
The Dude
Posts: 27740
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Downtown Las Vegas

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by brian »

Want an easy rule fix that will increase scoring, make the game more interesting and which we know already works? Get rid of letting fucking pitchers bat.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Sure, the DH is an easy one and definitely should happen, but I disagree on it just being a single per PA. The shift plus pitchers throwing harder/shorter is fundamentally changing the entire approach to hitting.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
Steve of phpBB
The Dude
Posts: 8434
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Feeling gravity's pull

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB »

brian wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:14 pm Want an easy rule fix that will increase scoring, make the game more interesting and which we know already works? Get rid of letting fucking pitchers bat.
Well, it'll increase scoring anyway.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
User avatar
sancarlos
The Dude
Posts: 18060
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:46 pm
Location: NorCal via Colorado

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by sancarlos »

Yeah, but no rules regarding positioning. A rule against icing is more akin to a rule against balking.

Football defenses move however they want, same for basketball, hockey and soccer.
"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

THOSE ARE POSSESSION TURNOVER SPORTS THE COMP IS TO DISALLOWING STRATEGIES THAT SUPPRESS OFFENSE NOT "HEY WELL YOU DON'T SEE HOCKEY CARING IF TWO DEFENSEMEN SHADE TO ONE SIDE"!!!
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
EdRomero
Donny
Posts: 2359
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:39 pm

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by EdRomero »



Red Sox about to sign Eovaldi 4 yrs/$67.5. I feel like this will either be a great signing or a terrible signing, but nothing in between. Could be a possible closer if he fizzles as a starter.
tennbengal
The Dude
Posts: 11975
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by tennbengal »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?
I’m with you. Let me know if you need backup.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

EdRomero wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:36 pmRed Sox about to sign Eovaldi 4 yrs/$67.5. I feel like this will either be a great signing or a terrible signing, but nothing in between. Could be a possible closer if he fizzles as a starter.
I think the range is "worked out" to Pavano (whom he looks a lot like). Eovaldi isn't an ace when healthy and he's getting full #2 freight there.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
Ryan
The Dude
Posts: 10439
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:01 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Ryan »

On board, don’t care. You win 120 games while paying $50M for Hanley, Sandoval, and Castillo, you get to keep whipping it out.
he’s a fixbking cyborg or some shit. The

holy fuckbAllZ, what a ducking nightmare. Holy shot. Just, fuck. The
User avatar
Brontoburglar
The Dude
Posts: 5851
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:20 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Brontoburglar »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?
even then the defensive three-second rule is more akin to blocking the plate than defensive shifts

and FWIW I don't have a position on banning shifts. I just don't think it's comparable to anything at all
"We're not the smartest people in the world. We go down the straightaway and turn left. That's literally what we do." -- Clint Bowyer
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Ryan wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:28 pm On board, don’t care. You win 120 games while paying $50M for Hanley, Sandoval, and Castillo, you get to keep whipping it out.
Absolutely. I didn't care one bit if Corbin was a $23MM per year or a $18MM per year because Corbin the pitcher is a big plus.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Brontoburglar wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 pmeven then the defensive three-second rule is more akin to blocking the plate than defensive shifts
I mean ... its absolutely not. Its disallowing a defensive structure and in theory affects every possession.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
Brontoburglar
The Dude
Posts: 5851
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:20 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Brontoburglar »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:03 pm
Brontoburglar wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 pmeven then the defensive three-second rule is more akin to blocking the plate than defensive shifts
I mean ... its absolutely not. Its disallowing a defensive structure and in theory affects every possession.
you misspelled it's twice in that post!

sure, but whoever is in the lane has to move there *during the possession*
"We're not the smartest people in the world. We go down the straightaway and turn left. That's literally what we do." -- Clint Bowyer
User avatar
EnochRoot
The Dude
Posts: 6187
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by EnochRoot »

brian wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:13 pm I don't agree with the premise that the rules are sacrosanct and shouldn't ever be altered. I also don't agree with the premise that teams using technology/strategy to eliminate a single a game are dealing a death blow to Baseball As We Know It.
Launch angle became a thing to hit over the shift. Hitters are altering the fundamentals of their swings. And strikeouts have skyrocketed as a result, as have the other of the three true outcomes (walks, HRs).

It makes for a boring, uninteresting product.
Noli Timere Messorem
HaulCitgo
Walter Sobchak
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:07 pm

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by HaulCitgo »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:02 pm
Ryan wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:28 pm On board, don’t care. You win 120 games while paying $50M for Hanley, Sandoval, and Castillo, you get to keep whipping it out.
Absolutely. I didn't care one bit if Corbin was a $23MM per year or a $18MM per year because Corbin the pitcher is a big plus.
Yeah. But I'll draw the line at mortgaging the farm system before he leaves town. That team is built on young guys and he will definitely try to destroy that path for the next guy.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Brontoburglar wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:16 pmyou misspelled it's twice in that post!

sure, but whoever is in the lane has to move there *during the possession*
Its so ingrained I don't bother anymore. My perpetual mulligan.

Tell me you believe changing the defensive 3 seconds rule would have the same effect on basketball defense as changing the plate blocking rule would have on baseball and I'll concede.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
sancarlos
The Dude
Posts: 18060
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:46 pm
Location: NorCal via Colorado

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by sancarlos »

mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?
Ha ha. I guess this is like religion and politics. Rarely is a person persuaded by another's argument. (But I do enjoy your passion on the subject!)
tennbengal wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pmI’m with you. Let me know if you need backup.
Ehh... fuck off. (As you like to say.)
"What a bunch of pedantic pricks." - sybian
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

I am curious, because I'm going against my own kind here, how the framing of this debate would be different if the stat guys were anti-shift and the establishment were anti-rule.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
brian
The Dude
Posts: 27740
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Downtown Las Vegas

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by brian »

Personally I got no stat ax to grind either way so I didn’t know there was even a stat guy opinion.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
tennbengal
The Dude
Posts: 11975
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:07 pm

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by tennbengal »

sancarlos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:50 pm
mister d wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm Just go with illegal defense in basketball if you need a direct analogy, ok dickfaces?
Ha ha. I guess this is like religion and politics. Rarely is a person persuaded by another's argument. (But I do enjoy your passion on the subject!)
tennbengal wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pmI’m with you. Let me know if you need backup.
Ehh... fuck off. (As you like to say.)
Gotta add “kinda” to make it authentic.
User avatar
Sabo
The Dude
Posts: 5466
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:33 am
Location: On the trail

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Sabo »

Former MLB players Luis Valbuena and Jose Castillo killed in a car crash in Venezuela.

Birds don’t suck. They lack the necessary anatomical structures to do so.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

Nice miserable start to the weekend.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
Steve of phpBB
The Dude
Posts: 8434
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Feeling gravity's pull

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB »

Sabo wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:48 am Former MLB players Luis Valbuena and Jose Castillo killed in a car crash in Venezuela.

Valbuena was a rare source of joy for Cubs fans during the dark days of 2012-14.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
User avatar
brian
The Dude
Posts: 27740
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Downtown Las Vegas

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by brian »

Was sitting next to a Cards front office guy (Jared Odom) on flight to Vegas this morning (him, presumably, for the Winter Meetings). Think he's in charge of amateur scouting or something like that.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
Gunpowder
The Dude
Posts: 8525
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dipshitville, FL
Contact:

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

sancarlos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:17 pm Yeah, but no rules regarding positioning. A rule against icing is more akin to a rule against balking.

Football defenses move however they want, same for basketball, hockey and soccer.
Both of those sports are also over once 60 minutes have elapsed from the timer. For years in the NBA they didn't move however they wanted to. People never seem to recognize that Jordan spent an entire career going against one defender.

Also, hockey and basketball players can move however they want with the ball. So why do football players have to line up a certain way offensively?
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
Gunpowder
The Dude
Posts: 8525
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:52 am
Location: Dipshitville, FL
Contact:

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Gunpowder »

Fuckin' Cardinals, btw.
Pack a vest for your james in the city of intercourse
User avatar
brian
The Dude
Posts: 27740
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Downtown Las Vegas

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by brian »

brian wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:39 pm Was sitting next to a Cards front office guy (Jared Odom) on flight to Vegas this morning (him, presumably, for the Winter Meetings). Think he's in charge of amateur scouting or something like that.
I didn't say a word to the guy other than "hey" when I sat down but once I saw his tag on his laptop bag it was torture not asking him how the Astros prospects are looking.
Bandwagon fan of the 2023 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!
User avatar
Steve of phpBB
The Dude
Posts: 8434
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Feeling gravity's pull

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB »

brian wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:44 pm
brian wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:39 pm Was sitting next to a Cards front office guy (Jared Odom) on flight to Vegas this morning (him, presumably, for the Winter Meetings). Think he's in charge of amateur scouting or something like that.
I didn't say a word to the guy other than "hey" when I sat down but once I saw his tag on his laptop bag it was torture not asking him how the Astros prospects are looking.
Heh.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
User avatar
mister d
The Dude
Posts: 29045
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by mister d »

You could have made him dread the next however-many hours by just muttering "more like Gold-shit" under your breath as soon as you started to taxi.
Johnnie wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
User avatar
Sabo
The Dude
Posts: 5466
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:33 am
Location: On the trail

Re: 2018-19 MLB Offseason Thread

Post by Sabo »

Sabo wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:48 am Former MLB players Luis Valbuena and Jose Castillo killed in a car crash in Venezuela.

This story has taken a dark turn. Looks like the rock in the road was intentional.

https://sports.yahoo.com/four-people-ar ... 49482.html
Birds don’t suck. They lack the necessary anatomical structures to do so.
Post Reply