Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by govmentchedda »

The best part about the timing of this (ht @emptywheel) is that Trump likely used Manafort as a mole in the Mueller investigation, and potentially just handed in pages of lies as his answers to Mueller's team questions.

And yes, I need to back away from liberal Twitter, as well.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Trump’s squealing makes me think the latest Mueller stuff is of some import.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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This is why you have to build it into the plea agreement that you get to keep committing more crimes. Were his lawyers asleep?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Johnnie »

Paul and Julian, sitting in a tree...

CRI-MIN-AL CON-SPIR-A-CY.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by EnochRoot »

The gist is that Mueller gave Manafort a plea deal knowing he would lie and backfeed information to Trump in hopes of a pardon. Once he got the written answers to the questions he posed to Trump he revoked Manafort's plea deal because he was lying. He has evidence to that effect and since Trump was operating under the assumption Manafort was a done deal he wrote his responses based on Manafort's testimony. So when Manafort goes back to court it will expose Trump's lies and we will see it in the public domain. So even if the Trump report is buried this court case will expose Trump.

3D chess (really, just chess) and horrible lawyers, right?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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EnochRoot wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:46 am The gist is that Mueller gave Manafort a plea deal knowing he would lie and backfeed information to Trump in hopes of a pardon. Once he got the written answers to the questions he posed to Trump he revoked Manafort's plea deal because he was lying. He has evidence to that effect and since Trump was operating under the assumption Manafort was a done deal he wrote his responses based on Manafort's testimony. So when Manafort goes back to court it will expose Trump's lies and we will see it in the public domain. So even if the Trump report is buried this court case will expose Trump.

3D chess (really, just chess) and horrible lawyers, right?
Helps when your legal targets (Trump, Manafort, et al) are literally incapable of telling the truth. Definitely helps inform your legal strategy I assume.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Exactly right to the last three posts. And given that Mueller felt confident blowing up Manafort's plea deal, I have to think more than just the Ecuador embassy visits are out there pointing to a conspiracy.

Again, though, all of this is going to blow past Trump, as he'll claim ignorance. But when you start to plot the timeline, it's going to be extremely difficult for anyone with a shred of objectivity to think this wasn't collusion.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Hey look...super-genius Erick Son Of Erick has figured out how to fix the problems of refugees trying to get out of their Central American countries...



Yeah...because installing murderous dictators around the world has worked out so well for the US in the past.

It galls me that this clown still gets paid to be a pundit/talking head on various Cable TV news shows. You'd think calling a retiring Supreme Court Justice a 'Goat Fucking Child Molestor' would have been enough to make someone at CNN say 'Maybe this guy shouldn't get a public forum'.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by brian »

I think most people with any shred of objectivity already know Trump was/is in the bag for Russia, but the right/important question is going to be -- why?

I mean that's the billion dollar question right? You can make a pretty reasonable case that if Trump's kid gloves treatment of Putin is based only because of the DNC hack and release of emails through Wikileaks that would be a firm basis for impeachment for any other president, but it's really just garden variety corruption for Trump and really might not permeate the national consciousness.

I've been hoping all along that the financial trail for the Trump Organization is the stuff that will really move the needle. Payoffs and bribes through overpaying for condos in Trump buildings by Russian and Saudi gangsters hasn't been proven definitively by any legal body and that's the stuff it's gonna be hard for him to skate on in the court of public opinion. That's the stuff that's gonna stick, regardless of whether or not he's impeached it should make it impossible for him to win another term if Mueller has those kinds of goods.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Joe K »

FWIW, a lot of people (including prominent Trump critics like Preet Bharara, Ben Wittes and Marcy Wheeler) are expressing skepticism about the Guardian’s reporting on the Manafort-Assange story. WikiLeaks has also offered to bet the Guardian $1 million that the story will be proven false.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:27 pm
EdRomero wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:20 pm So is this Manafort caught lying after the plea bargain story leading to something big, or do I need to back away from liberal Twitter?
Big fucking deal apparently.

Mueller just guaranteed he can issue a public report.

Summed up in this thread:

Shockratees said a lot of stuff in that thread that was flatly wrong. I wouldn't put much stock in anything he(?) said.

As far as I know, there has been no public disclosure about what Manafort allegedly lied about to the Mueller folks. It could be about collusion, but it could also be about many other things.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by degenerasian »

brian wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm I think most people with any shred of objectivity already know Trump was/is in the bag for Russia, but the right/important question is going to be -- why?

I mean that's the billion dollar question right? You can make a pretty reasonable case that if Trump's kid gloves treatment of Putin is based only because of the DNC hack and release of emails through Wikileaks that would be a firm basis for impeachment for any other president, but it's really just garden variety corruption for Trump and really might not permeate the national consciousness.

I've been hoping all along that the financial trail for the Trump Organization is the stuff that will really move the needle. Payoffs and bribes through overpaying for condos in Trump buildings by Russian and Saudi gangsters hasn't been proven definitively by any legal body and that's the stuff it's gonna be hard for him to skate on in the court of public opinion. That's the stuff that's gonna stick, regardless of whether or not he's impeached it should make it impossible for him to win another term if Mueller has those kinds of goods.
2013 Miss Universe in Moscow and his relationships with wealthy Moscovite businessmen stemming from that has something to do with it as well
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Occam's Razor for me is that he's in cahoots with Russia because they are the only banks who will give him financing. MotherFucker's too dumb to make any real money, and no bank that's not 100% crooked (considering US banks are only 95% crooked) would be willing to lend him money. They might as well set a stack of money on fire than lending it to him, they'll never see it.

Once Trump was neck-deep in Russia financing, they had him by the balls, so he was their puppet. Plus since, Hillary was willing to step up to them over Ukraine, so helping him win the election was killing two birds with one (Roger) Stone.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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L-Jam3 wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:10 pm Occam's Razor for me is that he's in cahoots with Russia because they are the only banks who will give him financing. MotherFucker's too dumb to make any real money, and no bank that's not 100% crooked (considering US banks are only 95% crooked) would be willing to lend him money. They might as well set a stack of money on fire than lending it to him, they'll never see it.

Once Trump was neck-deep in Russia financing, they had him by the balls, so he was their puppet. Plus since, Hillary was willing to step up to them over Ukraine, so helping him win the election was killing two birds with one (Roger) Stone.
Yeah, that all tracks and I truly suspect that's the case, but it's never been definitively proven by someone with the ability to get access to Trump Org financials or his personal financial information. The Trump Tower meeting in 2016? That's all bullshit ultimately. If that's all the Mueller report is about it's essentially gonna be a big nothing burger in the court of public opinion and that's gonna be really, really bad for America because it will embolden Trump to proclaim that the whole thing really was a witch hunt regardless of how obviously untrue that is based on the number of indictments, etc.

The American people are expecting something from this report that they don't already know. Fairly or not, that's the baseline.

I'm hoping that Mueller is half the prosecutor he has the reputation for being and hasn't been cowed into not taking this investigation where it needs to go to get to the real truth. I'm not yet convinced he's really gone all-in to get everything on Trump's ties to Russia. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I think he's all in. I really do. I think Trump fucked with Comey and other colleagues directly, not to mention taking on the FBI and the entire intelligence community and he's going to prove something here.

You don't fuck with the FBI. You don't fuck with the DoJ.

I'm not a huge fan of those institutions in terms of abuse of power. But that's kind of the point here. That is just a really shitty strategy.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:32 pm I think he's all in. I really do. I think Trump fucked with Comey and other colleagues directly, not to mention taking on the FBI and the entire intelligence community and he's going to prove something here.

You don't fuck with the FBI. You don't fuck with the DoJ.

I'm not a huge fan of those institutions in terms of abuse of power. But that's kind of the point here. That is just a really shitty strategy.
I've felt the same way before, but I go back and forth on if Mueller really decided to take the gloves off. I hope you're right.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:32 pmYou don't fuck with the FBI. You don't fuck with the DoJ.
I'd like to believe this ... but I also know how law enforcement in general tends to vote and know what this case really blowing up would mean to the party.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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The fact that Trump keeps freaking out on Twitter is honestly a good sign. He's prone to being a bitch, so you never really know, but it doesn't sound like he thinks it's going to be very good for him.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by tennbengal »

So...collusion, then?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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tennbengal wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:27 am So...collusion, then?
YOU'RE THE COLLUSION!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by EnochRoot »

tennbengal wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:14 am
I read that thread. What’s that supposed to mean? It’s glib and all that, but the responses are in an equally absorbant form of glib. It renders the read moo, cuz this cow’s opinion can’t make heads or tails of what the fuck they’re trying to be glib about.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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EnochRoot wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:22 am
tennbengal wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:14 am
I read that thread. What’s that supposed to mean? It’s glib and all that, but the responses are in an equally absorbant form of glib. It renders the read moo, cuz this cow’s opinion can’t make heads or tails of what the fuck they’re trying to be glib about.
I may be professing ignorance here (not that it's surprising amongst y'all), but I feel that way so much on Twitter.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by tennbengal »

wheel is "I told you so'ing" - basically she mused at one point that one card Mueller had to play was to find ways to publish his report without publishing his report, and is noting that the charging documents method would be a way he might be doing that.
Last edited by tennbengal on Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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All of the information coming out in these charging documents also backs up everything in the Steele dossier so far, so you know what that means:

THE PEE TAPE IS REAL!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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tennbengal wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:38 am wheel is "I told you so'ing" - basically he mused at one point that one card Mueller had to play was to find ways to publish his report without publishing his report, and is noting that the charging documents method would be a way he might be doing that.
Wheeler is a good follow but it’s a bit annoying that she makes tons of predictions and then gloats about the ones that turn out accurate while ignoring the ones that miss. (For instance, she was confident that Mueller was planning something really big for early September, before the traditional pre-election blackout period for political investigations.) She’s basically like a garden variety sports pundit in that respect.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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So she's Len Dykstra, but for reporting rather than investing?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:47 am All of the information coming out in these charging documents also backs up everything in the Steele dossier so far, so you know what that means:

THE PEE TAPE IS REAL!
Didn’t the Steele dossier say that Carter Page was offered a 19% ownership interest on Rosneft? That most definitely was not true. If Page owned 19% of a company that big he’d be ultra-rich and living on a tropical island somewhere, and not a nut giving crazy interviews of cable TV.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by EdRomero »

Firm that does Trump's tax filing raided by feds.

A lot of the conspiracy tweeters put out misinformation but they seem to be hitting on a lot more of what skeptics were dismissing. And what's more harmful -- them or mainstream people under reporting?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Joe K wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:53 am
tennbengal wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:38 am wheel is "I told you so'ing" - basically he mused at one point that one card Mueller had to play was to find ways to publish his report without publishing his report, and is noting that the charging documents method would be a way he might be doing that.
Wheeler is a good follow but it’s a bit annoying that she makes tons of predictions and then gloats about the ones that turn out accurate while ignoring the ones that miss. (For instance, she was confident that Mueller was planning something really big for early September, before the traditional pre-election blackout period for political investigations.) She’s basically like a garden variety sports pundit in that respect.
Dammit - she. That’s terrible of me.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Currently trending on Twitter, "Individual 1."







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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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EdRomero wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:16 pm Firm that does Trump's tax filing raided by feds.
Ed Burke is a crooked Chicago alderman. He could be getting raided over anything.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm
EdRomero wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:16 pm Firm that does Trump's tax filing raided by feds.
Ed Burke is a crooked Chicago alderman. He could be getting raided over anything.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. That guy is LEGENDARILY crooked, even by Chicago-crooked standards.

It does some weirdly coincidental that it happened on the same day as Cohen taking a deal with Mueller.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:48 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm
EdRomero wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:16 pm Firm that does Trump's tax filing raided by feds.
Ed Burke is a crooked Chicago alderman. He could be getting raided over anything.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. That guy is LEGENDARILY crooked, even by Chicago-crooked standards.

It does some weirdly coincidental that it happened on the same day as Cohen taking a deal with Mueller.
Yeah, but I read an article about the raid in the Sun-Times, and this sentence says it all...
The nature of their visit was not known, but Ald. Burke (14th) has dodged dozens of federal investigations over five decades in Chicago politics.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Pruitt wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:59 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:48 pm
Steve of phpBB wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 pm
EdRomero wrote: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:16 pm Firm that does Trump's tax filing raided by feds.
Ed Burke is a crooked Chicago alderman. He could be getting raided over anything.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. That guy is LEGENDARILY crooked, even by Chicago-crooked standards.

It does some weirdly coincidental that it happened on the same day as Cohen taking a deal with Mueller.
Yeah, but I read an article about the raid in the Sun-Times, and this sentence says it all...
The nature of their visit was not known, but Ald. Burke (14th) has dodged dozens of federal investigations over five decades in Chicago politics.
Pretty damning if you use a legendarily crooked Chicago politician to do your taxes.

Also damning, Trump's comment to reporters about Cohen. Trashes him for 5 minutes, crooked, incompetent, untrustworthy... Reporter asks then why hire him as your personal attorney for over a decade, "he did a favor for me. Many years ago, he did me a favor." So a guy does you a favor, you give him the most trusted spot in your World Class company? Can I do you a favor to become Attorney General? Do you a favor to get you to change foreign policy against my country? Get a pardon? Fuck, he is so corrupt, he has no clue that even his made up alibis are grossly corrupt.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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A rare moment of honesty from Trump:



Based on everything I’ve read, I don’t think he expected or even really wanted to get elected. So he probably didn’t give a shit about the corruption inherent with continuing his business negotiations while running for President.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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When all of stories about this are written, the ones that come out long after we're all dead -- assuming the Earth is still inhabitable -- the certain through line of this entire presidency is going to be that it was all just another big grift in a lifetime of them. The ultimate grift.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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If he loses in 2020 or is actually impeached, Schumer will be at the forefront arguing we should just let everything else go in order to move on.
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