Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by brian »

Remember, as much as most of these MAGA turds love Trump, they love the GOP brand more. And if the party breaks with Trump, most of them will fall in line.

ETA: And we will literally probably be among the first to figure it out, since when the GOP turns on Trump it will coincide with Fox News turning on Trump. If and when that ever happens, know that means the chances of actual removal from office went from something like 50 to 1 to about even money.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm Remember, as much as most of these MAGA turds love Trump, they love the GOP brand more. And if the party breaks with Trump, most of them will fall in line.
Strong disagree.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm
brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm Remember, as much as most of these MAGA turds love Trump, they love the GOP brand more. And if the party breaks with Trump, most of them will fall in line.
Strong disagree.
These people were responding to GOP dogwhistles long before some of us were alive. They'll learn how to go back to understanding dogwhistles without needing it expressed openly and plainly by a white supremacist. They're sure as shit not gonna vote Democratic.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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You guys are a lot more confident that Trump is cooked in 2020 than I am. I certainly wouldn’t bet on him but his defeat is hardly a sure thing. Keep in mind that despite 2018 being a very strong election for Democrats overall, a Trump acolyte won the Governor’s race in Florida and the GOP cleaned up in Ohio (with the notable exception of Sherrod Brown). Any time a Republican Presidential candidate can win in both Ohio and Florida, the election will be a nail-biter. The Electoral College still gives the GOP a huge built-in structural advantage, such that Trump could lose the popular election by an even bigger margin in 2020 and still have a shot at re-election.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:35 pm
mister d wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm
brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm Remember, as much as most of these MAGA turds love Trump, they love the GOP brand more. And if the party breaks with Trump, most of them will fall in line.
Strong disagree.
These people were responding to GOP dogwhistles long before some of us were alive. They'll learn how to go back to understanding dogwhistles without needing it expressed openly and plainly by a white supremacist. They're sure as shit not gonna vote Democratic.
But now they have a Dear Leader they can call their own. If the GOP repudiates said Dear Leader, they'll just conclude that the GOP is - still - being controlled by globalists. They obviously won't vote Democratic, but they may be less inclined to vote Republican.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Joe K »

Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:42 pm
brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:35 pm
mister d wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm
brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm Remember, as much as most of these MAGA turds love Trump, they love the GOP brand more. And if the party breaks with Trump, most of them will fall in line.
Strong disagree.
These people were responding to GOP dogwhistles long before some of us were alive. They'll learn how to go back to understanding dogwhistles without needing it expressed openly and plainly by a white supremacist. They're sure as shit not gonna vote Democratic.
But now they have a Dear Leader they can call their own. If the GOP repudiates said Dear Leader, they'll just conclude that the GOP is - still - being controlled by globalists. They obviously won't vote Democratic, but they may be less inclined to vote Republican.
To this end, the entire GOP political establishment was pushing hard for Bush or Rubio in 2016, and those guys won like 2 states combined in the primary.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:42 pm
brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:35 pm
mister d wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm
brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm Remember, as much as most of these MAGA turds love Trump, they love the GOP brand more. And if the party breaks with Trump, most of them will fall in line.
Strong disagree.
These people were responding to GOP dogwhistles long before some of us were alive. They'll learn how to go back to understanding dogwhistles without needing it expressed openly and plainly by a white supremacist. They're sure as shit not gonna vote Democratic.
But now they have a Dear Leader they can call their own. If the GOP repudiates said Dear Leader, they'll just conclude that the GOP is - still - being controlled by globalists. They obviously won't vote Democratic, but they may be less inclined to vote Republican.
I don't see it. They maybe sit one election out in protest and then a new Dear Leader like Tom Cotton will come along and pick up where Trump left off. Despite as much as we'd like to believe it, most of the people running the GOP aren't stupid. They'll hang on to Trump out of necessity, inertia and a whole bunch of other reasons hoping to hit a three-pointer at the buzzer to win in 2020, but once it becomes obvious he's an anchor around their long-term chances of winning future elections, he's gone. (NOTE: Since some of you don't seem to get what I'm saying, I'm not saying this WILL happen, just that it is possible. Who knows what other stuff Mueller is going to uncover?)

If that happens, they'll basically do what the GOP did in 1976 after Watergate. Take the L and regroup four years later with an even bigger grift.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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So, you guys are arguing that a president that by the time investigations are over is going to likely have multiple criminal indictments sitting in a sealed envelope(s) is going to somehow win a national election in 2020? And, btw, who is also pushing extremely unpopular policies on health care, immigration, climate change, etc?

I'm going to let this go, but I'll just say this, and apologies for being a prick here:

I had been saying since January 2017 that the overwhelming majority of this country was pissed off and motivated. That this type of politics and governing is not sustainable. And that the GOP was going to get its shit rocked in the mid-term.

So, I'm not perfect on this stuff, but I think you guys are being way too pessimistic about the situation we're in. Trump pisses off millions of American EVERY DAY. The other thing I said way back in the day is that if Trump just shut up, he'd skate through his 4 years and I would've been worried about 2020.

He's incapable of doing so. Which redounds to the benefit of the Democrats.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:01 pm So, you guys are arguing that a president that by the time investigations are over is going to likely have multiple criminal indictments sitting in a sealed envelope(s) is going to somehow win a national election in 2020? And, btw, who is also pushing extremely unpopular policies on health care, immigration, climate change, etc?
No. I don't think Trump will be re-elected. I do think that if the GOP disavows Trump, they will suffer. (Though as Brian points out, not forever.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Comey is absolutely ripping the president and the GOP right now. This is going to dominate tonight's news cycle.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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There's no sacred cows in politics (assuming our legal system works the way the Founders intend, which largely seems to be the case thus far).

Every system has its breaking point. If the economy starts to tank (which frankly was probably gonna happen eventually regardless of which party controls the Executive Branch), that's not gonna help Trump any. Part of his cult of personality revolves around him being a "great businessman" and that curtain is about to be exposed by Mueller. If his approval rating gets down in the low 30s, which doesn't seem impossible if the economy enters into a recession he's not gonna have a lot of friends left.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:31 pmI do think that if the GOP disavows Trump, they will suffer. (Though as Brian points out, not forever.)
This is what I think. Even if 5% tell the GOP to fuck off because their loyalty is Trump over party, its catastrophic.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Right, so they are in a no-win, fuck you very much situation.

Stay hitched to Trump and you become the White Nationalist Party. Unhitch and you lose the White Nationalists.

Boo fucking hoo.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:42 pm There's no sacred cows in politics
You may be right, or this may be yet another thing where we assume norms that no longer exist.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:43 pmStay hitched to Trump and you become the White Nationalist Party. Unhitch and you lose the White Nationalists.
The former, and the logical ends they'll take it to if they think the latter is certain death, should probably scare everyone.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:46 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:43 pmStay hitched to Trump and you become the White Nationalist Party. Unhitch and you lose the White Nationalists.
The former, and the logical ends they'll take it to if they think the latter is certain death, should probably scare everyone.
Also, become? The appeals to white nationalism go back to Nixon. Saint Reagan kick-started his Presidential campaign with a speech about “states rights” in rural Mississippi and routinely bashed minorities as undeserving and morally bankrupt.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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and lazy, don't forget lazy.

The GOP always says they are about equality. Anyone of any race can achieve anything. Then put about 5 things in the way. and if you can't pass those 5 things, you're lazy!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:46 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:43 pmStay hitched to Trump and you become the White Nationalist Party. Unhitch and you lose the White Nationalists.
The former, and the logical ends they'll take it to if they think the latter is certain death, should probably scare everyone.
I do agree with this. That's the scary part, right? That's why I really do have some hope that the midterms were a wake-up call for a lot of the GOP leaders, regardless of what they might be saying in public.

And again, I have to go back to my stated position that most of the GOP's leaders aren't stupid. Once that road you're talking about going down starts you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube to mix a metaphor somewhat intentionally. The GOP can come back from Trump, even if they have to pay for it for a couple or three election cycles. It can't come back from what would be tantamount to a coup d'etat if that coup fails. It's all or nothing at that point.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Joe K wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:52 pm Also, become? The appeals to white nationalism go back to Nixon. Saint Reagan kick-started his Presidential campaign with a speech about “states rights” in rural Mississippi and routinely bashed minorities as undeserving and morally bankrupt.
Umm...not just 'Rural Mississippi', but in Philadelphia, Mississippi. Why is that significant?
n the mid-20th century, Mississippi was a battleground of the civil rights movement as, like other states of the South, it had long disfranchised blacks and subjected them to racial segregation and Jim Crow laws. Philadelphia in June 1964 was the scene of the murders of activists James Chaney, a 21-year-old black man from Meridian, Mississippi; Andrew Goodman, a 20-year-old Jewish anthropology student from New York City; and Michael Schwerner, a 24-year-old Jewish CORE organizer and former social worker, also from New York. Their deaths demonstrated the risks that activists took to secure the constitutional rights of African Americans, but many more blacks than whites had been killed in the struggle.

Ku Klux Klan members (including Cecil Price, the deputy sheriff of Neshoba County) released the three young men from jail, took them to an isolated spot, and killed them, then buried them in an earthen dam. It was some time after they disappeared before the bodies were discovered, as a result of an FBI investigation and national media attention.[6] The national outrage over their deaths helped procure support for Congressional passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The murders and related conspiracy gave rise to the "Mississippi Burning" trial, United States v. Price.
So yes, the GOP/Racism dogwhistles go way back...
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Say what you will about Comey, he gives great quote:
“This is the president of the US calling a witness who is cooperating with his own Justice Department a ‘rat.’ Say that again to yourself at home and remind yourself where we have ended up,”
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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This is what I was referring to yesterday when I mentioned Comey:

"At some point, someone has to stand up and in the face of fear of Fox News, fear of their base, fear of mean tweets, stand up for the values of this country and not slink away into retirement but stand up and speak the truth."
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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We need to fight crime and get tough on it, but also stop snitching. It all makes perfect sense.

The actual immigrants who brought crime, the mafia, would know how to take care of these rats.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:57 am This is what I was referring to yesterday when I mentioned Comey:

"At some point, someone has to stand up and in the face of fear of Fox News, fear of their base, fear of mean tweets, stand up for the values of this country and not slink away into retirement but stand up and speak the truth."
Comey is making a significant assumption there about what GOP legislators actually think “the values of this country” are. Because the notion that the GOP is only quiet because it’s afraid of Trump presuppposes that they don’t think that getting conservative judges, tax cuts, corporate deregulation and punitive immigration policy is worth his bullshit. There’s a reason why his approval rating is still really high among registered Republicans.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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At least he's calling them on their bullshit. Not enough prominent people in Washington are being this blunt about what's going on.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Nothing to see here. Just a shady as fuck "charity" that the Trump's used for all sorts of bullshit getting shut down. A little late for this, you fucking morons.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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https://www.axios.com/michael-flynn-sen ... c1964.html

Damn. The quotes I'm seeing from the judge are HARSH.

Dude asked prosecutors if they'd considered charging your boy with treason.

*waves at 'bengal*
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:27 pm https://www.axios.com/michael-flynn-sen ... c1964.html

Damn. The quotes I'm seeing from the judge are HARSH.
Fucking "Military Hero" - just another striver wrapping himself in the flag.

On a lighter note - watching this, I pictured Julia Louise Dreyfuss in a scene from Veep, swallowing the humiliation of having to make such a stupid announcement on behalf of the President who loved to humiliate her.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Also:

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Yeah, but aside from the treason issue, the judge absolutely lit him up. In any event, the damage is already done with the treason thing.

Just like most folks just read Trump's bullshit tweets and don't circle back or listen to the fact checking.

That shit runs both ways.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Sounds like the judge has something in common with the president. Don't pay attention to the words that come out of my mouth while considering how long to lock you up? WTF?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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HaulCitgo wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:17 pm Sounds like the judge has something in common with the president. Don't pay attention to the words that come out of my mouth while considering how long to lock you up? WTF?
It makes for a juicy soundbite, but anyone who actually thinks Flynn committed treason should be apoplectic with Mueller for saying he’d be fine with Flynn not doing any jail time. I’m skeptical that there’s going to be some grand reveal coming based on the prosecutors’ sentencing recommendations for Flynn and Pappadopolous.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I mean, SPACECOM will be cool and all, but we'll see how it works when established. I didn't think we needed much more than what the Air Force already provides. But at least it isn't it's own force.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Will the Space Force field teams in the NCAA?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Pruitt wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:20 pm Will the Space Force field teams in the NCAA?
Space Force Academy would be a bad ass school.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Joe K wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:53 pm
Ryan wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:37 pm I will say exactly none days in jail for any of them.
Seconded. I also predict that Trump will not face a primary challenge of any significance. It was obvious that he was a corrupt moron during the 2016 campaign yet not a single prominent Republican endorsed Clinton.
The South Carolina GOP -- lovers of democracy that they are -- are apparently worried about a primary challenge to Trump.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:01 am
Joe K wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:53 pm
Ryan wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:37 pm I will say exactly none days in jail for any of them.
Seconded. I also predict that Trump will not face a primary challenge of any significance. It was obvious that he was a corrupt moron during the 2016 campaign yet not a single prominent Republican endorsed Clinton.
The South Carolina GOP -- lovers of democracy that they are -- are apparently worried about a primary challenge to Trump.
Of course. If there is no South Carolina primary than Trump will have no challengers!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Excellent Reddit comment detailing stuff:



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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Joe K »

sancarlos wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:09 am
brian wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:01 am
Joe K wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:53 pm
Ryan wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:37 pm I will say exactly none days in jail for any of them.
Seconded. I also predict that Trump will not face a primary challenge of any significance. It was obvious that he was a corrupt moron during the 2016 campaign yet not a single prominent Republican endorsed Clinton.
The South Carolina GOP -- lovers of democracy that they are -- are apparently worried about a primary challenge to Trump.
Of course. If there is no South Carolina primary than Trump will have no challengers!
Yeah, that just another bit of evidence that there will be huge institutional pressure within the GOP to close ranks around Trump, just as there was in 2016. Even GOP heavyweights who hated Trump and had absolutely nothing to lose in endorsing Clinton — like GHW Bush, Jeb Bush, John McCain, etc. — did not do so before the General Election.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Joe K wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:30 am
sancarlos wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:09 am
brian wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:01 am
Joe K wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:53 pm
Ryan wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:37 pm I will say exactly none days in jail for any of them.
Seconded. I also predict that Trump will not face a primary challenge of any significance. It was obvious that he was a corrupt moron during the 2016 campaign yet not a single prominent Republican endorsed Clinton.
The South Carolina GOP -- lovers of democracy that they are -- are apparently worried about a primary challenge to Trump.
Of course. If there is no South Carolina primary than Trump will have no challengers!
Yeah, that just another bit of evidence that there will be huge institutional pressure within the GOP to close ranks around Trump, just as there was in 2016. Even GOP heavyweights who hated Trump and had absolutely nothing to lose in endorsing Clinton — like GHW Bush, Jeb Bush, John McCain, etc. — did not do so before the General Election.
I think they, like the rest of the world, thought there was no fucking way he'd win.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Johnnie »

Or, it's all a damn game and they secretly are in it together, but have to appear to take sides.

The recent funerals of McCain and H. W. Bush push me in this direction.

When Bush gives Michelle Obama candy it isn't cute.

When Michelle and Barack give pleasantries to Donald and Melania, I get it, but it isn't cute.

When Hillary and Donald are in close proximity and nothing happens, that's not what I've been trained to think.

When Kissinger is invited to McCain's funeral and Meghan is all "America was always great" to subtweet Donald, but aligns with him and Republicans on every fucking thing, and completely disregarding her father's POW status due to politics, my head fucking explodes.

It's all a joke on some level.
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