Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

[The Sybian]

More devastation probably isn't possible without just dropping a nuclear bomb. Doesn't matter how, we need to get out of the Middle East period.

i realize my opinion doesnt mean jackshit, but i wholeheartedly agree with every single word of this post. Can we just this one time say fuck all this shit, we are all going home. fuck every base in the middle east...every soldier comes home. Who gives a flying fuck anymore. we cant fix it. we cant even help. we make it all worse. deal with your own shit or dont middle east.

We could if we greatly reduced our need for oil. And stopped caring about Israel. We should have been largely off oil after the crisis in the 1970s, but Republicans and Big Oil money in politics made sure we stifled all progress.

[BSF21]

More devastation probably isn't possible without just dropping a nuclear bomb. Doesn't matter how, we need to get out of the Middle East period.

i realize my opinion doesnt mean jackshit, but i wholeheartedly agree with every single word of this post. Can we just this one time say fuck all this shit, we are all going home. fuck every base in the middle east...every soldier comes home. Who gives a flying fuck anymore. we cant fix it. we cant even help. we make it all worse. deal with your own shit or dont middle east.

We could if we greatly reduced our need for oil. And stopped caring about Israel. We should have been largely off oil after the crisis in the 1970s, but Republicans and Big Oil money in politics made sure we stifled all progress.

I'd propose that it has far less to to with Oil and more to do with the MIC built through Boeing/Raytheon/Lockheed/Etc that holds us hostage over these things.

I've never understood the strategic importance of Israel other than linking the Evangelicals to that part of the world and being able to say big daddy USA has his grip on shit over there.

[Joe K]

More devastation probably isn't possible without just dropping a nuclear bomb. Doesn't matter how, we need to get out of the Middle East period.

i realize my opinion doesnt mean jackshit, but i wholeheartedly agree with every single word of this post. Can we just this one time say fuck all this shit, we are all going home. fuck every base in the middle east...every soldier comes home. Who gives a flying fuck anymore. we cant fix it. we cant even help. we make it all worse. deal with your own shit or dont middle east.

We could if we greatly reduced our need for oil. And stopped caring about Israel. We should have been largely off oil after the crisis in the 1970s, but Republicans and Big Oil money in politics made sure we stifled all progress.

I'd propose that it has far less to to with Oil and more to do with the MIC built through Boeing/Raytheon/Lockheed/Etc that holds us hostage over these things.

I've never understood the strategic importance of Israel other than linking the Evangelicals to that part of the world and being able to say big daddy USA has his grip on shit over there.

There’s probably a lot of truth to the MIC point. Even when domestic oil production spikes our militarism in the Middle East hasn’t slowed down.

And there’s a big difference between our traditional support for Israel, which was at least somewhat contingent on a good faith peace process, to what it’s become in recent years, which is blind support for Netanyahu’s extreme far-right government regardless of its human rights abuses.

[Pruitt]

I'd propose that it has far less to to with Oil and more to do with the MIC built through Boeing/Raytheon/Lockheed/Etc that holds us hostage over these things.

I've never understood the strategic importance of Israel other than linking the Evangelicals to that part of the world and being able to say big daddy USA has his grip on shit over there.

And don't forget the Cold War - the Arab world was firmly in the Soviet camp, while Israel was pro-Western.

[The Sybian]

And there’s a big difference between our traditional support for Israel, which was at least somewhat contingent on a good faith peace process, to what it’s become in recent years, which is blind support for Netanyahu’s extreme far-right government regardless of its human rights abuses.

As a Liberal Jew, this is a very difficult balance for me. Netanyahu is worse than the worst elements of our Far Right wing, and our worst revere and aspire to be him. I obviously understand and support the need for a Jewish homeland, but man, I can't relate to Israelis.

I don't know enough about the political history, but I would hope the early support for Israel came from guilt over turning away so many Jewish refugees in the 1930s, and forcing them to return to Nazi controlled Europe. I don't think anyone could have imagined the extent of the horrors of the Holocaust, but fuck all of the anti-refugee fuckers who couldn't find room for a few thousand Jews in 1930s America. I think they could have been quite easily absorbed.

[Giff]

While we are talking about Obama pulling out of Iraq, wasn't he following Bush's negotiated withdrawal plan? If he failed to follow Bush's plan, the same politicians and pundits would have killed him for that.

Correct. Let me tell you why we should all remember that...

[Pruitt]

And there’s a big difference between our traditional support for Israel, which was at least somewhat contingent on a good faith peace process, to what it’s become in recent years, which is blind support for Netanyahu’s extreme far-right government regardless of its human rights abuses.

As a Liberal Jew, this is a very difficult balance for me. Netanyahu is worse than the worst elements of our Far Right wing, and our worst revere and aspire to be him. I obviously understand and support the need for a Jewish homeland, but man, I can't relate to Israelis.

I don't know enough about the political history, but I would hope the early support for Israel came from guilt over turning away so many Jewish refugees in the 1930s, and forcing them to return to Nazi controlled Europe. I don't think anyone could have imagined the extent of the horrors of the Holocaust, but fuck all of the anti-refugee fuckers who couldn't find room for a few thousand Jews in 1930s America. I think they could have been quite easily absorbed.

100% (and I am a liberal Jew as well)

Which is why animals like Stephen Miller and other anti-immigrant Jews make me so angry. Not a single Jew in the world is unaware of the horrors of the Holocaust, yet to see a good number of them espouse anti-immigration policies proves that the old slogan "never again" has been completely forgotten.

And to see Netanyahu's brand of real politik whereby he cozies up to people who would be very happy to throw him into an oven absolutely sickens me.

[The Sybian]

Which is why animals like Stephen Miller and other anti-immigrant Jews make me so angry. Not a single Jew in the world is unaware of the horrors of the Holocaust, yet to see a good number of them espouse anti-immigration policies proves that the old slogan "never again" has been completely forgotten.

And to see Netanyahu's brand of real politik whereby he cozies up to people who would be very happy to throw him into an oven absolutely sickens me.

Not completely forgotten, just ignored by sociopathic (possibly psychopathic) racist, fascist assholes.

[Steve of phpBB]

I don't know enough about the political history, but I would hope the early support for Israel came from guilt over turning away so many Jewish refugees in the 1930s, and forcing them to return to Nazi controlled Europe.

I'm pretty sure this is it, not just the US turning away refugees, but all of Western Europe with (completely appropriate) Holocaust guilt.

Plus, Israel is filled with people who mostly look white, speak English, and have a Parliament. And even though their human rights record ain't great, still, they're not the ones beheading reporters, sneaking into towns so they can kill little kids in their beds, or flying planes into skyscrapers.

[brian]

I don't know enough about the political history, but I would hope the early support for Israel came from guilt over turning away so many Jewish refugees in the 1930s, and forcing them to return to Nazi controlled Europe.

I'm pretty sure this is it, not just the US turning away refugees, but all of Western Europe with (completely appropriate) Holocaust guilt.

Plus, Israel is filled with people who mostly look white, speak English, and have a Parliament. And even though their human rights record ain't great, still, they're not the ones beheading reporters, sneaking into towns so they can kill little kids in their beds, or flying planes into skyscrapers.

They’re killing plenty of kids themselves.

[A_B]

I don't know enough about the political history, but I would hope the early support for Israel came from guilt over turning away so many Jewish refugees in the 1930s, and forcing them to return to Nazi controlled Europe.

I'm pretty sure this is it, not just the US turning away refugees, but all of Western Europe with (completely appropriate) Holocaust guilt.

Plus, Israel is filled with people who mostly look white, speak English, and have a Parliament. And even though their human rights record ain't great, still, they're not the ones beheading reporters, sneaking into towns so they can kill little kids in their beds, or flying planes into skyscrapers.

Leave the nazgul out of this.

[Joe K]

Back to Syria, this op-ed in the WaPost from one of Obama’s former ambassadors to Syria is a nice antidote to the usual hawkish line. He calls the decision to withdraw “essentially correct” and argues that the Kurds can likely gain adequate protection from the Syrian government. He also places blame on Trump’s foreign policy team for any internal divisions on this issue.

President Trump’s Dec. 23 tweet promising a “slow and highly coordinated” withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria may ease the gnashing of teeth among officials and analysts in Washington, but it won’t end the criticism of his decision. That is precisely why the president should view the hullabaloo that erupted after he announced the Syrian pullout as an opportunity to take a number of steps to make the most of his essentially correct, but widely unpopular, move.

Many observers have asserted that the withdrawal gives victory in Syria to Russia, Iran and the Syrian government. That’s absurd. Bashar al-Assad’s regime already controls about two-thirds of Syria, including all of the major cities. The portion of Syria that U.S. forces control alongside their Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) allies is mostly either desert or drought-prone plains. ... In sum, holding northeastern Syria would not have enabled Washington to leverage any important concessions from Damascus, Tehran or Moscow.

Stability, not a deeply embattled Syrian Kurdish autonomous zone, is the vital long-term U.S. interest in northeastern Syria. Turkey can accept with conditions the return of Syrian government forces into the area, as Russia and Iran want. Ankara dislikes the Assad government, but it dislikes more the prospect of an autonomous Kurdish region along its border.

The United States’ erstwhile friends, the Syrian Kurds, have always allowed Damascus to keep its security offices open in northeastern Syria; the Kurds never closed that channel of communication. If anything, the Syrian Kurds prefer the deployment of Syrian government forces along the Turkish border to deter Ankara. ...

Finally, the president needs to consider how his own foreign policy team got so far out ahead of him on Syria. He needs a National Security Council staff that can more clearly relay his cautions and concerns about U.S. foreign policy to the people in charge of executing it. That staff needs to make clear to officials in the departments that, while he hears various departments’ views, those departments must act on his guidance. Ensuring implementation is the NSC’s job. The president would benefit politically and, more importantly, U.S. national security would benefit from a more effective foreign policy team.

[Pruitt]

I know, I know, we talk about his base but how many people really buy this?

[mister d]

C’mon man. He could tweet he’s paying govt workers out of his own pocket and his base would believe it enough to atleast argue that you can’t prove he isn’t.

[Pruitt]

C’mon man. He could tweet he’s paying govt workers out of his own pocket and his base would believe it enough to atleast argue that you can’t prove he isn’t.

Other than the imbecilic 30%? Who on earth believes this idiot?

[Johnnie]

Translation:

"Trump is a fucking subhuman psychopath. I know this. You know this. But, no matter who's leading, you do what you have to do and be the backbone of this fucking country. We'll get through this bullshit. Semper Fi."

[TT2.0]

I know, I know, we talk about his base but how many people really buy this?

as someone who doesnt follow trump day to day i read it and without researching have no real gauge as to what parts arw true and not. i mean i logically assume the coast guard did get paid or he wouldnt tweet about it...so wheres the lie? im legit asking not trump defending

[mister d]

That the Dems have any role in the shutdown.

[duff]

We have a friend that works as a TSA agent and his checks come from the Coast Guard. He hasn't gotten a check since the shutdown.

[L-Jam3]

Just assume any statement this MotherFucker says is a lie. That’s they way I deal with it.

[Johnnie]

The Coast Guard is part of Homeland Security unless it's all out war, then they get absorbed by the Navy.

So their paychecks aren't signed by the DoD like mine. Luckily I get paid during these times.

I cannot believe how incredibly lucky I am that I joined the military in times like these. I mean, once they realized in 2011 that using military members as political footballs was a bad look when we're deployed and they are chicken hawk warmonger fuckbois.

[Pruitt]

So is he now turning against the military leadership?

[Johnnie]

Dude has been retired for a while, so no.

If he starts going after *active* military leadership, then I'd start to worry.

[Giff]

So is he now turning against the military leadership?

[Johnnie]

Hey, with nobody working, look at what's happening. Good job, America.

[Pruitt]

Hey, with nobody working, look at what's happening. Good job, America.

That's a "false flag" I'll bet that Democrat staffers dumped that garbage there just to make Trump look bad.

[EnochRoot]

In case anybody forgets why the Mueller investigation is perhaps the most important one in United States history...

Heather Cox Richardson
December 27 at 5:20 PM ·

"Over the holiday, someone asked me to explain what is happening with Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into the Russian government's attempt to interfere in the 2016 election. Perfect timing, because I stumbled across something a few weeks ago that frames the whole investigation nicely.

In 2011, when Mueller was FBI Director, he gave a speech in New York. He explained that globalization and modern technology had changed the nature of organized crime. Rather than being regional networks with a clear structure, he said, organized crime had become international, fluid, sophisticated, and had stakes in the multi-billion dollar range. Its operators were cross-pollinating across countries, religions, and political affiliations, sharing only their greed. They did not care about ideology; they cared about money. They would do anything for a price.

These criminal enterprises, he noted, were working to corner the market on oil, gas, and precious metals. And to do so, Mueller explained, they "may infiltrate our businesses. They may provide logistical support to hostile foreign powers. They may try to manipulate those at the highest levels of government. Indeed, these so-called 'iron triangles' of organized criminals, corrupt government officials, and business leaders pose a significant national security threat."

To combat that threat, Mueller said, the FBI had shifted focus "from a law-enforcement agency to a national security service that is threat-driven and intelligence-led."

It appears that various members of the 2016 GOP campaign were part of such an iron triangle.

Donald Trump had sought Russian business since 1996, but his financial connections with Russians really took off in 2008, when wealthy Russians poured money into Trump's US properties at a time when few others were interested in working with Trump. In September 2008, Don Jr. told a reporter: "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.... We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia." Trump pursued the idea of a Trump Tower in Moscow, and in 2013, took the Miss Universe pageant there.

Then, in 2014, in response to Russian efforts to destabilize and absorb Ukraine, the US put sanctions on a number of Russian oligarchs close to Vladimir Putin, freezing their assets and denying them visas. (Interestingly, at the time, GOP congresspeople complained that President Obama did not hit Putin more harshly.)

Now, it appears that Russia offered to help Trump get elected in 2016 in exchange for-- among other things-- an end to sanctions. And a Russian spy, Maria Butina, has recently admitted to infiltrating the NRA, which poured more than $400 million-- an unprecedented sum-- behind GOP candidates in the 2016 election.

It is this iron triangle of business, government, and criminals that Mueller is chasing down. It is taking a huge amount of time as he and his staff look at money laundering, cyber-hacking, blackmail, and what is popularly (but not legally) known as treason. It seems to me that he is aiming not at any one person, but rather at a criminal organization that is attempting to destroy NATO and turn the world over to an international cabal of oligarchs.

Mueller is spreading his evidence out in the court records he is filing, making it almost impossible for the president to stifle his discoveries, and he is spreading out cases amongst different agencies for similar reasons. And he is getting results. As of November, Mueller had indicted 33 people or entities, and 7 of them have pled guilty (5 were aides to Trump). There are also more than 3 dozen sealed indictments at the DC federal court, and it is likely that many, or most, or all, of them are related the Mueller investigation.

Mueller is the man who took down the Gambino crime family when no one else could make anything stick. He is thorough and he is tough. Sadly, I expect his final conclusions are going to be shocking: it seems to me that we will discover that not simply administration officials, but also a number of congresspeople and prominent business leaders are part of that iron triangle of international criminality Mueller warned about back in 2011, when the rest of us were still naive.”

Notes: Mueller's charge: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ecial.html

Mueller's 2011 speech: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ecial.html

2014 sanctions document: https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/p ... 23331.aspx

sanctions discussion: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... s/8371225/

Dossier on Trump/Russia/campaign: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... tions.html

Trump's historical Russia ties: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 7bfdfcb753

Mueller's indictments: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... grand-jury

Sealed indictments in DC: https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-conta ... d=59249030

NRA spending in 2016: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2017/1 ... h-in-2016/

[TT2.0]

random question/late night weed fueled paranoia....if the irs is a government agency, could trump conceiveably use the shutdown as a reason to deny issuing tax refunds to americans? like what if he just...keeps all our money? Am I being stupid here?

[Ryan]

AND FILL THE GRAND CANYON WITH IT

[Rex]

Hey, this wall is made out of......unissued checks???

[mister d]

That reminds me, we’ve officially entered “tri-state H&R Block employees get screamed at by Trump voters because of Trump” season.

[sancarlos]

That reminds me, we’ve officially entered “tri-state H&R Block employees get screamed at by Trump voters because of Trump” season.

Been looking forward to it.

[Johnnie]

This would be amazing if it actually happened. It won't though.

[Rush2112]

That reminds me, we’ve officially entered “tri-state H&R Block employees get screamed at by Trump voters because of Trump” season.

Been looking forward to it.

Anyone heard from HDO?

[The Sybian]

That reminds me, we’ve officially entered “tri-state H&R Block employees get screamed at by Trump voters because of Trump” season.

If this becomes a story, Trump and Fox will blame it on the Dems. Judging from Facebook, I think most people in NJ will blame it on Gov Murphy.

[mister d]

I trust he’s competent enough to use any implicating of him as support for repealing the cap.

[EdRomero]

Pretty much the only coverage lately has been the shutdown. Cohen, Manafort, Mueller are hardly ever mentioned on NPR and CNN. So his shut down has been a great success for him, and I don't see it ending. Guess that's better than starting a war to distract everyone.

[Johnnie]

Someone on Reddit called them "Alt Right Said Fred."

[Rush2112]

So the Pelosi memes started about 3.30 for me today. What about you guys?

Sadly it was a retread.

[rass]

Every so often I read some transcript that is so fucknuts that I break down and listen to him. Holy fuck.