Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by degenerasian »

It's simple. The GOP say they want to repeal and replace but really the just want to repeal and go back to how it was.

But not ALL GOP Congressmen agree so even the repeal never passes (and cause McCain did what he did). They dont want to come up with a new a better solution. What if it passes? Cant have that!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Very Stable Genius: Noise Causes Cancer!
President Trump has long despised wind power. He has repeatedly blamed wind turbines for killing birds (which they do at a lower rate than other energy sources) and for allegedly causing electrical power to halt when the wind stops blowing (in fact, electricity grids using mixed power sources and battery storage have solved this problem). In a speech tonight to House Republicans, Trump claimed that wind turbines cause cancer.

“They say the noise causes cancer,” the president of the United States asserted.

Wind turbines do not cause cancer. Some people blame the noise for causing a variety of other health ailments, but these charges have zero scientific validity. Cancer is not caused by noises of any kind.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I'm not sure about that last statement. Trump's speeches contain carcinogens known to the state of California to cause cancer.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:30 am Very Stable Genius: Noise Causes Cancer!
President Trump has long despised wind power. He has repeatedly blamed wind turbines for killing birds (which they do at a lower rate than other energy sources) and for allegedly causing electrical power to halt when the wind stops blowing (in fact, electricity grids using mixed power sources and battery storage have solved this problem). In a speech tonight to House Republicans, Trump claimed that wind turbines cause cancer.

“They say the noise causes cancer,” the president of the United States asserted.

Wind turbines do not cause cancer. Some people blame the noise for causing a variety of other health ailments, but these charges have zero scientific validity. Cancer is not caused by noises of any kind.
Origins or Oranges. The new Yanny v Laurel.

All joking aside, he clearly has dementia, some sort of degenerative brain condition or end stage syphilis, right?

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Given that the Democrats seem like they can't even organize breakfast, much less a unified campaign against Trump, the best way to 2020 victory may be for Trump's dementia to progress further and become so obvious that people have to vote against him.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:15 pm
A_B wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:54 pm Why did tirico take so much time to get to the green?!?!?!?!
Maybe he was walking, and President Bone Spurs was riding in a cart?
To circle back to this...apparently Trump hits first and immediately takes off in a cart, presumably so he can cheat.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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If anyone I played with ever took off in a cart before I teed off, I would spend the entire round trying to hit said cart.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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A_B wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:19 pmTo circle back to this...apparently Trump hits first and immediately takes off in a cart, presumably so he can cheat.
Jesus Christ, if that's not his entire fucking presidency in a nutshell. Does an indefensible asshole thing and politeness dictates no one outright demands he stops.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:38 pm
A_B wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:19 pmTo circle back to this...apparently Trump hits first and immediately takes off in a cart, presumably so he can cheat.
Jesus Christ, if that's not his entire fucking presidency in a nutshell. Does an indefensible asshole thing and politeness dictates no one outright demands he stops.
David Roth agrees.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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He's my favorite and now I feel very smart.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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So, if I order Reilly's book from Amazon and have it shipped directly to my mother (who is a golf-loving Trump voter), can I ensure my name isn't anywhere on the packaging, indicating that I ordered it for her?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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I think you can order it as a gift. Plus the return address on the box is usually Amazon Fulfillment Services or something from the closest warehouse city.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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sancarlos wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:50 pm So, if I order Reilly's book from Amazon and have it shipped directly to my mother (who is a golf-loving Trump voter), can I ensure my name isn't anywhere on the packaging, indicating that I ordered it for her?
Hell, I'll order it for you.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Here we go.



And another good point:

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by A_B »

DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:54 pm
sancarlos wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:50 pm So, if I order Reilly's book from Amazon and have it shipped directly to my mother (who is a golf-loving Trump voter), can I ensure my name isn't anywhere on the packaging, indicating that I ordered it for her?
Hell, I'll order it for you.
Kinda brilliant. We all have Venmo ornpaypal. Plausible deniability!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:34 pm Here we go.
Unfortunately this can’t be true as we know Barr wouldn’t be intentionally misleading knowing the report could later contradict him.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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A_B wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:55 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:54 pm
sancarlos wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:50 pm So, if I order Reilly's book from Amazon and have it shipped directly to my mother (who is a golf-loving Trump voter), can I ensure my name isn't anywhere on the packaging, indicating that I ordered it for her?
Hell, I'll order it for you.
Kinda brilliant. We all have Venmo ornpaypal. Plausible deniability!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:13 pm
brian wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:34 pm Here we go.
Unfortunately this can’t be true as we know Barr wouldn’t be intentionally misleading knowing the report could later contradict him.
Yeah knock me over with a fucking feather. I was shouting this shit last week. Let the report come out, and until a Trump appointee proves they are worthy motherfuck, all of them. He auditioned for the role.

And, again, they are so fucking stupid they think a 10-20 day window where his dumb bullshit memo dominates the narrative is going to make up for a potentially devastating OBSTRUCTION case.

This is what ppl are being so stupid about. The obstruction doesn’t require collusion. And they obstructed dozens of times.

Fuck these motherfuckers.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Johnnie »

Oh, so people on Mueller's team are pissed that the narrative got shit on by Barr!

But I thought that summary squashed everything because quiet professionals didn't immediately start shouting from the rooftops when their hard work was ratfucked.

Huh. Fucking weird.

And one other thing...

Bring 'em out. Bring 'em out.



Apparently that can't be stopped. But I bet you it gets tired up in litigation and the Supreme Court makes an abysmal ruling based on nothing.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Johnnie »

Wow. Now that the narrative changes, so do republican opinions.

Last week it was "Praise Mueller and his team." Now it's this again:

Rudy Giuliani called Mueller's staff 'rabid Democrats' and 'sneaky, unethical leakers' after a new report said the special counsel's findings are worse than Trump claims

So fucking weird, you guys.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Meanwhile, President Coal Lover isn't actually doing shit for the coal industry (the one single reason why a guy like AB could understandably theoretically support the guy):

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:29 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:13 pm
brian wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:34 pm Here we go.
Unfortunately this can’t be true as we know Barr wouldn’t be intentionally misleading knowing the report could later contradict him.
Yeah knock me over with a fucking feather. I was shouting this shit last week. Let the report come out, and until a Trump appointee proves they are worthy motherfuck, all of them. He auditioned for the role.

And, again, they are so fucking stupid they think a 10-20 day window where his dumb bullshit memo dominates the narrative is going to make up for a potentially devastating OBSTRUCTION case.

This is what ppl are being so stupid about. The obstruction doesn’t require collusion. And they obstructed dozens of times.

Fuck these motherfuckers.
The release of the whole report will obviously shed light on this but I’m curious what the frustration is given that the Barr letter clearly stated that there was evidence suggestive of obstruction and that the report did not exonerate Trump on obstruction:
The report's second part addresses a number of actions by the President – most of which have been the subject of public reporting – that the Special Counsel investigated as potentially raising obstruction-of-justice concerns. After making a “thorough factual investigation” into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other – as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
I’m guessing the frustration is that Barr himself concluded that the evidence was ultimately not enough to support a criminal obstruction charge. (That this was Barr’s decision was, again, clearly disclosed in the letter.) But that raises the question as to why Mueller’s team chose not to make the conclusion themselves as to whether the evidence met the elements of obstruction of justice. Even if they didn’t feel they could Constitutionally indict Trump for obstruction they could have concluded that his actions would’ve otherwise been enough to support charges.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Joe K »

Sure enough, there you go:

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

Post by Johnnie »

I like Kyle Kulinski and all, but he had a recent video where he was talking on the reaction of Democrats calling bullshit on the handling of the release of the report because "if you think that there's something in the Barr summary that is categorically untrue in terms of the overall tone/results of the synopsis don't you think Mueller or his team would be calling bullshit by now?"

Pissed me off when said that. Now he gets to have it shoved back in his face, rightfully. And I actually like the dude.

And it seemed like a fair point until you realize if Mueller or his team spoke out it could get them in trouble. Plus, no one lets anything breathe. Basically once the summary was read and if his team didn't say anything immediately correcting it, POOF! It's the be all, end all and we can all go home. We just dunked on you Democrats! Hoax, witch hunt, build the wall, MAGA! It makes the team look like shit because here they've been working non-stop on this thing for 2 years and the GOP cover up guy gets to whitewash it.

But godammit this Orwellian Dystopia bullshit is hard for those of us with thinking brains that can reach logical conclusions. Barr wrote a longer opinion of the Mueller investigation being a sham than the synopsis of the 300-400 page report itself. And I'm just supposed to go along? So we've always been at war with East Asia. GTFOH.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Not only all of that, but if this is true -- Mueller summarized each part of the report with the intention that those summaries would be released to the public, then Barr's memo was especially bad faith, even by the standards of this administration, which in itself is really saying something. It's like being awed by something Mike Trout does.

ETA: Of course, the saddest part of this is if Mueller really legitimately somehow believed that the Trump administration would act in good faith in releasing his findings. Not sure how he could be that naive.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Fucking hell. I haven't even read that yet. He provided actual TL;DRs to inform the public and was shit on. I fucking hate politics.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Joe K wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:45 am... I’m curious what the frustration is given that the Barr letter clearly stated that there was evidence suggestive of obstruction and that the report did not exonerate Trump on obstruction
Its existence? Do you / does anyone believe it was meant to be an honest summary versus a first chance spin and, if you don't believe it ever intended to be honest, why defend its existence?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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brian wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:52 am Not only all of that, but if this is true -- Mueller summarized each part of the report with the intention that those summaries would be released to the public, then Barr's memo was especially bad faith, even by the standards of this administration, which in itself is really saying something. It's like being awed by something Mike Trout does.

ETA: Of course, the saddest part of this is if Mueller really legitimately somehow believed that the Trump administration would act in good faith in releasing his findings. Not sure how he could be that naive.

That’s not what the original NYT report says. To the contrary it says this:
However, the special counsel’s office never asked Mr. Barr to release the summaries soon after he received the report, a person familiar with the investigation said. And the Justice Department quickly determined that the summaries contain sensitive information, like classified material, secret grand-jury testimony and information related to current federal investigations that must remain confidential, according to two government officials.
Again, as I noted before, with the specific passages bolded for you guys, Barr’s letter explicitly stated that: (1) there was evidence suggestive of obstruction; (2) the Mueller report *did not* exonerate Trump on obstruction; (3) the decision not to criminally charge Trump with obstruction was Barr’s, and not Mueller’s. How exactly is Jollet concluding that Barr LIED? If Ken Dilanian’s report is correct, and the anger is with the charging decision, it seems that some of that anger should go to Mueller for not making an overall conclusion on the obstruction issue.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Johnnie wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:16 am Wow. Now that the narrative changes, so do republican opinions.

Last week it was "Praise Mueller and his team." Now it's this again:

Rudy Giuliani called Mueller's staff 'rabid Democrats' and 'sneaky, unethical leakers' after a new report said the special counsel's findings are worse than Trump claims

So fucking weird, you guys.
If by weird, you mean 'completely predictable', I agree with you.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Isn't Occam's Razor here that Mueller didn't assume that Trump's administration would so brazenly obfuscate the true conclusions in the report and resist releasing any of it to the public for as long as possible?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:21 am
Johnnie wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:16 am Wow. Now that the narrative changes, so do republican opinions.

Last week it was "Praise Mueller and his team." Now it's this again:

Rudy Giuliani called Mueller's staff 'rabid Democrats' and 'sneaky, unethical leakers' after a new report said the special counsel's findings are worse than Trump claims

So fucking weird, you guys.
If by weird, you mean 'completely predictable', I agree with you.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:12 am
Joe K wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:45 am... I’m curious what the frustration is given that the Barr letter clearly stated that there was evidence suggestive of obstruction and that the report did not exonerate Trump on obstruction
Its existence? Do you / does anyone believe it was meant to be an honest summary versus a first chance spin and, if you don't believe it ever intended to be honest, why defend its existence?
Look back at the specific section on the Barr letter that I quoted earlier, which is its summary of Mueller’s findings on obstruction. The only way that can section can really be a lie is if Mueller did, in fact, reach his own prosecutorial conclusion that obstruction occurred. But no one had said that. Rather, as the Ken Dilanian Tweet indicates, the members of Mueller’s team are upset with the outcome of Barr’s own charging decision. And again, Barr’s letter made it clear that this was his decision and not Mueller’s. It’s one thing to argue that Barr should’ve reached a different conclusion. If that’s the case, then Congress can certainly try to run with impeachment. But that’s different from saying that he’s being dishonest about the contents of the Mueller report.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Again, I think you're presuming objectivity where it doesn't exist. If Mueller chose not to make a decision to charge either way, do you believe anything in a report would have lead Barr to do so or do you think Mueller's refusal is framed, implicitly or explicitly, as him not having enough evidence to do so?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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And ffs why didn't he dampen the GOP victory lap from last week? Or just, ya know, release the damn document in full when every fucking GOP edgelord was comparing it to the Fyre Festival when it supposedly, according to these same people, fully exonerates the president?

No new indictments + no conclusive wrongdoing as per Mueller + a weak as fuck media going along with gaslighting + "getting out in front of the story" = people with brains calling bullshit. It's not that hard.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:43 am Again, I think you're presuming objectivity where it doesn't exist. If Mueller chose not to make a decision to charge either way, do you believe anything in a report would have lead Barr to do so or do you think Mueller's refusal is framed, implicitly or explicitly, as him not having enough evidence to do so?
Framed by Barr or framed by Trump supporters? Because here’s what Barr wrote on this specific issue.
After making a “thorough factual investigation” into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other – as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”
I don’t read that as saying that there wasn’t enough evidence — particularly since it says that the Mueller Report “does not exonerate him.”
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Do you believe the aftermath, so the letter and the administration reaction, were independent of one another?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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mister d wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:11 pm Do you believe the aftermath, so the letter and the administration reaction, were independent of one another?
No. But you’re blurring together two portions of the letter: (1) Barr’s characterization of be Mueller Report (which I believe to be accurate) with (2) Barr’s independent decision, as described in the letter, not to charge Trump with obstruction. It was the second factor, and not the first, that allowed Trump to take a victory lap. Anger with Barr over part (2) may prove warranted after the Mueller Report is released.* But that’s different from saying that part (1) was a dishonest coverup.



* Although again, if the evidence of obstruction is really bad it of course raises the separate question as to why Mueller didn’t choose to conclude that there was sufficient evidence to establish the offense.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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But you can't divorce those two. If I write a letter saying I have the nicest wife in the world and I love her so much and then I go stab her, are you going to argue the integrity of my letter?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part III - A Democratic House

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Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
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