2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by duff » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:28 am

Most people approve because they are going to get 1000$.

They don't want to understand any other implications of his handling of this crisis. They be getting $$$. Just like with fucking tax cuts. Everyone gonna be rich!
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by The Sybian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:29 am

brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:25 am
Whatever you think of Biden, they're not limiting his appearances out of fears of Biden fucking up. People are scared and this isn't really a time to be trying to score political points. Even Trump himself has toned that down for the most part. There will be plenty of time for scorekeeping before the election, so I think it's pretty smart for Biden to stick to Twitter and other platforms like that to put out his message for the moment.
I agree. Biden attacking now looks like he is weaponizing the pandemic. Let the Dems in Congress point out the lack of leadership and try to pressure Trump and their GOP colleagues to get shit done. In a crisis, people need to believe they can count on their leaders, so cognitive dissonance runs high, and if Biden is out raising fears, people will transfer their negative emotions onto Biden instead of Trump.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:35 am

The Sybian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:29 am
brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:25 am
Whatever you think of Biden, they're not limiting his appearances out of fears of Biden fucking up. People are scared and this isn't really a time to be trying to score political points. Even Trump himself has toned that down for the most part. There will be plenty of time for scorekeeping before the election, so I think it's pretty smart for Biden to stick to Twitter and other platforms like that to put out his message for the moment.
I agree. Biden attacking now looks like he is weaponizing the pandemic. Let the Dems in Congress point out the lack of leadership and try to pressure Trump and their GOP colleagues to get shit done. In a crisis, people need to believe they can count on their leaders, so cognitive dissonance runs high, and if Biden is out raising fears, people will transfer their negative emotions onto Biden instead of Trump.
He can show leadership without raising fears or “weaponizing the pandemic.” Why not say: Trump’s offer of cash stipends is nice but not nearly enough; here’s what I’ll do in the first month of my presidency to help families, hospitals and other businesses? That’s why I suggested Warren as VP, because he may need her to do the grunt work on policy.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:37 am

He's been doing that, but solely on Twitter and social media.

I'm not really sure where else he's supposed to do it. The campaign doesn't have any money for TV ads right now and even if it did, it would be accused of politicizing a national crisis. It's not like he can ask the networks for airtime.

Trump has the advantage as the incumbent/sitting president. Bush's approval rating went up to 90 percent after 9/11 and then dropped back to normal. Trump's will do the same and possibly crater if the deaths start piling up.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:45 am

brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:37 am
He's been doing that, but solely on Twitter and social media.

I'm not really sure where else he's supposed to do it. The campaign doesn't have any money for TV ads right now and even if it did, it would be accused of politicizing a national crisis. It's not like he can ask the networks for airtime.
Biden could get airtime on any primetime CNN or MSNBC show at virtually any time. That’s what Trump did in 2016 with CNN to overcome his lack of campaign infrastructure. And I don’t agree with the fears of politicizing a crisis. Of course the GOP would whine about that, but crisis response is how important political changes often come about! Reagan politicized the Iran hostage crisis, FDR politicized the Great Depression, etc.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:50 am

I get what you're saying and I think there's going to be a time for that and that time is not now. It's not like there aren't Dem senators and others high up killing Trump for his inaction, lying and incompetence. Those people ARE on MSNBC, etc. I'm not certain the country needs to hear it from Biden now because they will be and soon enough.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:52 am

If you want to know the God's honest truth, that poll being at "only" 55 percent is a really positive sign. People want to believe in the president in a time of a crisis and 43 percent already know they can't. Other than the Trump cult members, the rest of that 55 percent will realize on their own or be made to realize how much Trump fucked this up.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:56 am

(I'll also admit that it may not be the right move to keep Biden in bubblewrap for the time being, but I will say if this gets as bad as it looks like it will then it probably won't matter.)
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:21 am

(Not trying to beat a dead horse, but want to get some thoughts out there...)

The entire country (more or less) knows who Joe Biden is. In thinking about this a little, I'm as convinced as ever keeping him on the sidelines and then bringing him out at a later time makes a lot of sense, especially if his campaign staff does it at a time for maximum damage to Trump. The country doesn't really need to be introduced to Joe Biden or remember who he is -- that's one of the few advantages he has over Bernie in an election against Trump.

Here's a scenario that isn't hard to imagine:

By this time next week or week after, the cases are still climbing and the death toll is really ringing up (remember that it generally takes about two weeks to die once contracting COVID-19 -- this is the main issue with hospital bed space and health care staffing).

Trump is flailing around doing his Trump thing -- maybe blaming old people for being old and dying and making him look bad.

In comes Joe Biden to do a primetime address to the nation -- the networks won't give him airtime specifically, but if he sells it as the presumptive nominee wanting to address the nation, he'll probably get the 10 or 15 minutes that it will take to do a quick address and re-assure the nation that he's ready and willing to do whatever it takes to blah blah blah blah blah, get a few swipes in at Trump, exit stage left and then start a "virtual" campaign with Insta Live stuff, etc., etc.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:27 am

(One final thing -- I swear to Christ).

And bear with me, because this is arguably pretty cruel and heartless.

If Biden is putting his face out there right saying, we need to invoke the Defense Production Act and have the military start building field hospitals, etc., etc. (arguably all of the stuff Trump should be doing right now, but isn't), then he runs the risk of Trump actually doing that stuff and benefitting from Biden's experience. It's a lot easier for the Biden campaign a few weeks from now to say "why wasn't Trump building field hospitals in mid-March, why didn't he invoke the Defense Production Act sooner to get masks and respirators built, etc., etc.

Doing nothing now might cost more lives than if Biden was "helping" Trump but it will be devastating when it comes time to campaign in the fall.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by A_B » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:30 am

brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:27 am
(One final thing -- I swear to Christ).

And bear with me, because this is arguably pretty cruel and heartless.

If Biden is putting his face out there right saying, we need to invoke the Defense Production Act and have the military start building field hospitals, etc., etc. (arguably all of the stuff Trump should be doing right now, but isn't), then he runs the risk of Trump actually doing that stuff and benefitting from Biden's experience. It's a lot easier for the Biden campaign a few weeks from now to say "why wasn't Trump building field hospitals in mid-March, why didn't he invoke the Defense Production Act sooner to get masks and respirators built, etc., etc.

Doing nothing now might cost more lives than if Biden was "helping" Trump but it will be devastating when it comes time to campaign in the fall.
It is calculated and heartless, but it's probably the right move. That Trump doesn't have SOMEONE that is telling him to do this is insane.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by L-Jam3 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:37 am

I'll follow up with something even more petty and heartless.

FoxNews and the GOP leadership spread disinformation and lies about the danger of COVID-19. This will cause more deaths than if they did not. The lion's share of those who died or will die from FoxNews and GOP leadership's lies would be Trump voters in November anyway. Older people are more likely to die, and they also are more likely to both (a) vote in higher numbers and (b) support Trump. So FoxNews and GOP leadership's lies were actually helpful to get Trump out of office.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:44 am

Right, they need to sell it as “Joe Biden to the rescue” which they can’t do if he’s in peoples faces all day, every day.

It’s hard and it’s counter-intuitive to an extent but he has to disappear for awhile.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:10 pm

My wife had the press conference for a few minutes. Trump was asked what his response is to people saying, basically, we are massively overreacting.

Trump’s answer was intelligent and logical and appropriate. Shocking.

(Obviously he should’ve said all that weeks sooner. But still.)

Pence is talking now. He’s making perfect sense too.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by GoodKarma » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:19 pm

You must not have seen the part where Peter Alexander of NBC asked (paraphrasing) what would he like to say to Americans that are scared? Trumps response: "You are a terrible reporter"

He seems to bounce between good coherent answers and going off the rails, depending on the question.

What's more irritating is how each person that the beginning of each of pressers spends time telling Dear Leader how great of job he's doing...after he himself opens with how great of job he is doing. The use of the word "unprecedented" is, well, unprecedented.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by The Sybian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:22 pm

brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:27 am
(

If Biden is putting his face out there right saying, we need to invoke the Defense Production Act and have the military start building field hospitals, etc., etc. (arguably all of the stuff Trump should be doing right now, but isn't), then he runs the risk of Trump actually doing that stuff and benefitting from Biden's experience. It's a lot easier for the Biden campaign a few weeks from now to say "why wasn't Trump building field hospitals in mid-March, why didn't he invoke the Defense Production Act sooner to get masks and respirators built, etc., etc.

My mind goes in the opposite direction with your premise. If Biden made a public address saying what Trump should be doing, Trump would refuse to do those things because they were Biden's ideas. He doesn't care about saving lives other than high numbers of deaths making him look bad.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:52 pm

GoodKarma wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:19 pm
You must not have seen the part where Peter Alexander of NBC asked (paraphrasing) what would he like to say to Americans that are scared? Trumps response: "You are a terrible reporter"

He seems to bounce between good coherent answers and going off the rails, depending on the question.

What's more irritating is how each person that the beginning of each of pressers spends time telling Dear Leader how great of job he's doing...after he himself opens with how great of job he is doing. The use of the word "unprecedented" is, well, unprecedented.
I didn’t. I guess the one answer I saw was competent because Trump didn’t see it as an attack on himself and lose his shit.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:52 pm



Thanks for reading my posts, Joe! This is more like what I had in mind. Now announce Warren as your VP.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:55 pm

It seems like a smart move.

I don’t think this is any different than what I was saying though. He was going to have to start doing something like this eventually and the cases are starting to accelerate fast. I said he had to pick his time to take his shot and they’re betting after the cases pile up over the weekend. Makes sense.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by The Sybian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:56 pm

Despite my previous post, I got a bit excited to see this. Hopefully he does a good job, because I don't trust him to deliver a message well.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:51 pm

brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:55 pm
It seems like a smart move.

I don’t think this is any different than what I was saying though. He was going to have to start doing something like this eventually and the cases are starting to accelerate fast. I said he had to pick his time to take his shot and they’re betting after the cases pile up over the weekend. Makes sense.
You’re probably right that it made sense to wait a bit because the whole situation has been insanely fluid over the past 10 days. But what I really like is the idea of making this a recurring thing.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:54 pm

Joe K wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:51 pm
brian wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:55 pm
It seems like a smart move.

I don’t think this is any different than what I was saying though. He was going to have to start doing something like this eventually and the cases are starting to accelerate fast. I said he had to pick his time to take his shot and they’re betting after the cases pile up over the weekend. Makes sense.
You’re probably right that it made sense to wait a bit because the whole situation has been insanely fluid over the past 10 days. But what I really like is the idea of making this a recurring thing.
Agreed. Almost a “president in exile” thing. Especially if he’s bringing great experts in these fields with him too to show he’s capable of consulting with experts instead of lackeys.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:10 am

My tweet recommendations are full of people mad Joe Biden isn't front and center (Joe Hiden, LOL!) while Bernie has transformed his campaign into a means to get people to donate to help fight the virus. This must be some subplot I've missed. I read the posts upthread, but I still don't get it.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:21 am

Johnnie wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:10 am
My tweet recommendations are full of people mad Joe Biden isn't front and center (Joe Hiden, LOL!) while Bernie has transformed his campaign into a means to get people to donate to help fight the virus. This must be some subplot I've missed. I read the posts upthread, but I still don't get it.
I don’t really care about the contrast with Sanders but my issue in the posts upthread is that Biden needs to make himself more visible to voters as a source of leadership on Coronavirus response. (And it sounds like he’s planning to do so beginning within the next couple of days.) Not so much with the public health issues because Biden isn’t currently an elected official working with government health authorities. But he could and should speak up about how to plan our economic response.

The last couple weeks have been the most disruptive period of my lifetime — even after 9/11 there was not the same total shutdown of social and economic activity. I suspect this will turn out to be the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression. The choices we make to addressing that crisis are critical as they may shape decades of American society. It’s not too early for Biden to provide leadership on that issue. As the presumptive nominee he’s the face of the Democratic Party. But he hasn’t appeared to the public (in person or on video) in almost a week at a key time when every major Federal, state and local official is giving daily press conferences.

Even if you don’t think he’s being “hidden” for health reasons, it’s an awkward position for Biden the more he waits. His whole candidacy was premised on a post-Trump “return to normal.” But “normalcy” will be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, given how difficult the next several months will be. That’s why I think it’s crucial that Biden make Warren his pick for VP (or at least Treasury Secretary). We’re going to need innovative and bold economic thinking to get a good recovery from this. Reversion to Bush/Obama-era policy is not nearly enough.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:25 am

That seems fair. If he was out doing what Bernie was doing or at least advising, that would make sense.

Maybe he took a week hiatus to get together with people and form a way forward? I have no idea. Being out for a day is one thing, but many consecutive ones is something else.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:06 am

Johnnie wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:25 am
Maybe he took a week hiatus to get together with people and form a way forward?
This is most likely what's been happening. There's no room at all for the Biden campaign to flub this. He is going to be the nominee (short of him literally dying) and he has to make sure he beats Trump. It's not the time for overconfidence or winging anything.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by HaulCitgo » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:01 pm

There's no time for politics. Just shut up and climb in a hole for 6 months. Wake up and the virus will have doomed trump and he walks into the white house. He benefits nothing from trying to deal with this. Stay quiet, make generalized statements of support for the good ol USA and then try to pick up the pieces in January.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:14 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:01 pm
There's no time for politics. Just shut up and climb in a hole for 6 months. Wake up and the virus will have doomed trump and he walks into the white house. He benefits nothing from trying to deal with this. Stay quiet, make generalized statements of support for the good ol USA and then try to pick up the pieces in January.
I don't think you're completely wrong (as you might have guessed based on my previous posts) and I think most of the people I see on Twitter whining about Biden's whereabouts are mostly bitter Bernie supporters trying to prove some point or another, but I think a combination of yours and Joe's suggestions are what's called for. Frankly, even with trying to do some daily briefings and getting himself out there some he's still not going to be able to "campaign" in the classic sense so he's naturally not going to be on the TV/news as much, especially with Trump sucking up most of the spotlight. For once, that's good though. Trump, for all his gifts as a politician, still hasn't learned one of the most important maxims of dealing with a PR crisis -- when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

That's why they need to trot ol' Joe out for an hour a day for the TV cameras and then stick him back in bubble wrap until the next day where they do it again.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by mister d » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:22 pm

How’s Cuomo doing?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Shirley » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:35 pm

I think the most obvious answer for Biden's absence is the real reason. He's gotten a big lead and if wants the nomination, he just needs things to keep going as they are and not fuck up. Well, fucking up is kinda Biden's thing, so his team has him lying low. Especially because things are fraught right now, and it would be easy for Joe to say something stupid and possibly bring Bernie back into this thing.
Totally Kafkaesque

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:08 am

Biden's briefing today was fine (guess he's not sick or dead, huh?). More of this every day for the foreseeable future.

Trump talking about lifting the social distancing protocols (which he can't do at anything but the federal level) will continue to dig his own grave.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by The Sybian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:16 am

Sorry if this was posted and I missed it. Very interesting take on Biden's gaffes. This guy said Biden's gaffe's are actually the tricks of a stutter to avoid words he feels he is going to trip over.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... ter-speech
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by mister d » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:18 am

Like "detained"?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by GoodKarma » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:42 am

The Sybian wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:16 am
Sorry if this was posted and I missed it. Very interesting take on Biden's gaffes. This guy said Biden's gaffe's are actually the tricks of a stutter to avoid words he feels he is going to trip over.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... ter-speech
I am a stutterer whose story is similar to the author. I agree that some of his "gaffes" look that way but it is by no means all and I would not even say the majority...at least of the ones I've seen.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:46 am

I think the only good thing to come out COVID-19 is that a lot of people are going to realize that even a moderate Democrat who might have some issues with senility is a one million percent improvement over Donald Trump next time the shit hits the fan. Even if Biden spends most of his term drooling in a corner at least there will mostly be competent people at every level of the federal government again.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:46 pm

brian wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:46 am
I think the only good thing to come out COVID-19 is that a lot of people are going to realize that even a moderate Democrat who might have some issues with senility is a one million percent improvement over Donald Trump next time the shit hits the fan. Even if Biden spends most of his term drooling in a corner at least there will mostly be competent people at every level of the federal government again.
Yup. As an illustration of this, Andrew Cuomo is a very flawed politician but he now looks like a cross between Abraham Lincoln and FDR compared to Trump.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Ryan » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:26 pm

It would be talking into the void at this point, but that's why someone like Bernie, who probably loses a lot of support just based on demeanor and approach, should really hammer it home that we're not electing a friend or a team captain or a grandpa or even a glass-ceiling shatterer, but someone who can govern and decide and generally handle shit.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:34 pm

I mean, if the argument is that Trump has fucked this up enough already that the Dems could nominate Bozo the Clown and win, so wouldn't it be better to have someone more competent, then I'm right there with you.

The issue remains the same -- as bad as Trump has fucked this up, we're not there quite yet and even after the worst of it his, most of his cult members still form a pretty sizable chunk of the electorate so there's little room for error.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:38 pm

I think despite all the bickering we're all on the same page (and the virus really drives it home to everyone who considers themselves a liberal or progressive) -- the only major argument you can really make against Bernie is electability and we all agree that the truth about the answer to that argument is unknown. I buy the points on both sides of that debate.

Giving up a true progressive agenda for a watered down one sucks, but the price of not being united in November is at least four more years of <gestures around wildly> this.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:00 pm

"Electability" is a self fulfilling prophecy. You have it once you've been elected. We need to stop pretending it's anything but.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.

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