2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by The Sybian »

govmentchedda wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 6:57 am
L-Jam3 wrote: Sun May 12, 2019 9:53 pm The Presidency is going to skip right over Generation X, isn’t it? Like there’s going to be not a single President who could recall all the lyrics from “Stay (I Missed You)” from memory.
I'm not so sure.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

The Sybian wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 5:03 pm
govmentchedda wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 6:57 am
L-Jam3 wrote: Sun May 12, 2019 9:53 pm The Presidency is going to skip right over Generation X, isn’t it? Like there’s going to be not a single President who could recall all the lyrics from “Stay (I Missed You)” from memory.
I'm not so sure.
You are clever.
That won't take me anyhow, or anywhere, with you.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by DaveInSeattle »

Elizabeth Warren calls out Fox News for what it is (read the thread):


Fox News is a hate-for-profit racket that gives a megaphone to racists and conspiracists
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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ETA: What would Uncle Joe do?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Something fucking dumb catering to the Boomers who want a palatable Donald Trump.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Well, Bernie already did one and Warren's criticism was lobbed his way but the fact that he more than stood his ground is what actually got covered.

Good for her for using her platform to call out Bernie (in a somewhat subtle way) and pointing out the obvious re: Fox = racism + evil.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Oh, and if anyone thinks I'm wrong...

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Pruitt »

His republican "friends" would shit in his mouth and tell him its hamburger.

Is his pollyanna bit there a complete act, or does he believe it?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »

Pruitt wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 pm His republican "friends" would shit in his mouth and tell him its hamburger.

Is his pollyanna bit there a complete act, or does he believe it?
He probably believes it. At various times in his career, Biden has opposed school desegregation and abortion rights and supported punitive criminal justice laws, preventative wars, financial deregulation and cuts to the social welfare safety net. So there are many areas where he has genuinely had common ground with Republicans. On the merits, Biden is probably the single worst nominee in the Democratic field but he’s probably going to get the nomination because most primary voters just view him as Obama’s buddy cop partner.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Pruitt wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 pm His republican "friends" would shit in his mouth and tell him its hamburger.

Is his pollyanna bit there a complete act, or does he believe it?
Probably a bit of both.

The people who I talk to who aren't obsessed with politics just want the "partisan bickering" to stop. They don't like what they think of as politics. Many of those people sometimes vote Republican and sometimes vote Democrat. They would much rather hear what Biden is saying than what I would say, which is that Republicans are completely batshit crazy at this point and a threat to our inclusive democracy.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Nonlinear FC »

Joe K wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 2:20 pm
Pruitt wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 pm His republican "friends" would shit in his mouth and tell him its hamburger.

Is his pollyanna bit there a complete act, or does he believe it?
He probably believes it. At various times in his career, Biden has opposed school desegregation and abortion rights and supported punitive criminal justice laws, preventative wars, financial deregulation and cuts to the social welfare safety net. So there are many areas where he has genuinely had common ground with Republicans. On the merits, Biden is probably the single worst nominee in the Democratic field but he’s probably going to get the nomination because most primary voters just view him as Obama’s buddy cop partner.
Let's have some debates go down and see what happens. First one is next month. Primaries start in, what February of next year? We've got lots of time for people that are not really paying attention to start tuning in and actually making some real choices on these candidates.

If Biden runs on some bullshit like this, primary voters (and that's key, a lot of polls are bullshit because they take in a lot of low information voters who don't even vote in primaries) will not put up with some backslapping "we're not so different, you and me" in this election. It will piss a lot of people off.

It's a huge miscalculation for Biden to be saying shit like this during primary season. It is probably how you want to message in the general, but he is going to get fucked up if he comes at Trump and the GOP from this weak sauce bullshit in the primary. We are pissed off and scared shitless, I don't want to hear about across the aisle bullshit right now. Fuck that.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Is it a huge miscalculation though?

Ya know when he's polling high, has enough name recognition to be linked to the Good Ol' Days of Obama, and he has to cater only to a bland slate of moderates with his "Awww shucks, can't we get over our differences, guys?" attitude.

It will have to be a Herculean outreach of Millennials and pissed off Gen Xers to outvote the Olds to send a message. I'm hoping that happens, but it's highly unlikely.

I have to remember that with a voting age population in the 275+ million (I'm guesstimating), there simply aren't that many people like me going "fuck this dude" enough. They are passive political followers and probably don't think as badly about Trump in the grand scheme.

It's going to suck so fucking hard voting for him in the general next year. I'm already pissed about it.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Steve of phpBB »

Johnnie wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 4:41 pm Is it a huge miscalculation though?

Ya know when he's polling high, has enough name recognition to be linked to the Good Ol' Days of Obama, and he has to cater only to a bland slate of moderates with his "Awww shucks, can't we get over our differences, guys?" attitude.

It will have to be a Herculean outreach of Millennials and pissed off Gen Xers to outvote the Olds to send a message. I'm hoping that happens, but it's highly unlikely.

I have to remember that with a voting age population in the 275+ million (I'm guesstimating), there simply aren't that many people like me going "fuck this dude" enough. They are passive political followers and probably don't think as badly about Trump in the grand scheme.

It's going to suck so fucking hard voting for him in the general next year. I'm already pissed about it.
I really don't think Biden is going to win the nomination, though. He's never been a good campaigner, and he's going to look stupid in the debates. I think as people drop out and the field narrows, his share of the Dem vote will drop, and voters will coalesce around someone else.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

I hope you're right.

And I'm anticipating AOC's endorsement for whoever isn't Joe Biden. That thought just popped into my head.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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It'll be nice when this stupid clown car gets parsed down to a handful.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 pm I hope you're right.

And I'm anticipating AOC's endorsement for whoever isn't Joe Biden. That thought just popped into my head.
AOC is pretty strongly in Warren camp at moment I thought.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »

A_B wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
Johnnie wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 pm I hope you're right.

And I'm anticipating AOC's endorsement for whoever isn't Joe Biden. That thought just popped into my head.
AOC is pretty strongly in Warren camp at moment I thought.
AOC is closest to Sanders. She worked on his campaign in 2016 and they just co-drafted a major bill to reform the lending industry.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

Joe K wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:32 pm
A_B wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
Johnnie wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 pm I hope you're right.

And I'm anticipating AOC's endorsement for whoever isn't Joe Biden. That thought just popped into my head.
AOC is pretty strongly in Warren camp at moment I thought.
AOC is closest to Sanders. She worked on his campaign in 2016 and they just co-drafted a major bill to reform the lending industry.
Who's also pretty close to Warren.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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govmentchedda wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:54 pm
Joe K wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:32 pm
A_B wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
Johnnie wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 pm I hope you're right.

And I'm anticipating AOC's endorsement for whoever isn't Joe Biden. That thought just popped into my head.
AOC is pretty strongly in Warren camp at moment I thought.
AOC is closest to Sanders. She worked on his campaign in 2016 and they just co-drafted a major bill to reform the lending industry.
Who's also pretty close to Warren.
So if Sanders is close to Warren, and one's a Democrat and one isn't, and one deliberately weakened the last Democrat and one didn't, what's the case for Sanders - as long as Warren is in the race at least?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »

Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 10:49 am
govmentchedda wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:54 pm
Joe K wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:32 pm
A_B wrote: Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 pm
Johnnie wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 pm I hope you're right.

And I'm anticipating AOC's endorsement for whoever isn't Joe Biden. That thought just popped into my head.
AOC is pretty strongly in Warren camp at moment I thought.
AOC is closest to Sanders. She worked on his campaign in 2016 and they just co-drafted a major bill to reform the lending industry.
Who's also pretty close to Warren.
So if Sanders is close to Warren, and one's a Democrat and one isn't, and one deliberately weakened the last Democrat and one didn't, what's the case for Sanders - as long as Warren is in the race at least?
1. Sanders’ choice to not be a Democrat hasn’t made his policies, values or priorities worse in any meaningful way.

2. The whole “deliberately weakened” argument is meaningless nonsense that could be used against anyone who ever runs in a primary. Were you similarly mad at Obama for “deliberately weakening” Clinton back in 2008 when he chose to run against her and she was the presumptive nominee? Or, for that matter, Clinton for “deliberately weakening” Obama when she stayed in the race — and even prepared pitches to Superdelegates to override the public’s votes — even after it was clear he was the frontrunner?

More broadly, I like both Sanders and Warren. I think Sanders is better on foreign policy and Warren is better on domestic policy. Either one is far better than Biden and could persuade me.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by govmentchedda »

Well said. That's basically my position.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Joe K wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am2. The whole “deliberately weakened” argument is meaningless nonsense that could be used against anyone who ever runs in a primary. Were you similarly mad at Obama for “deliberately weakening” Clinton back in 2008 when he chose to run against her and she was the presumptive nominee? Or, for that matter, Clinton for “deliberately weakening” Obama when she stayed in the race — and even prepared pitches to Superdelegates to override the public’s votes — even after it was clear he was the frontrunner?
It wasn't merely the fact of participating in a primary. It was pushing false attacks for months during the primary - against both Hillary and the party whose nomination he was supposedly seeking - and continuing to do so long after it was clear Sanders had no chance to be the nominee. I don't recall either Clinton or Obama spending months falsely accusing the other of being quasi-Republican corporate shills or rigging the primaries, or pushing other false narratives. There were small things here and there, like you have in any contested election, but not a sustained negative approach. Even my mother, who has paid attention to Democratic politics for decades, was deceived into thinking that the only reason Hillary was ahead of Bernie was because of superdelegates.

And in all honesty, it was quite reasonable for Democrats in 2008 to fear that the country would never elect a black president, so that Hillary was a better choice in the general. And who knows what would have happened if Lehman Brothers hadn't imploded that September. Saying "you should nominate me because my opponent will lose to the Republican" is different from saying "you should not vote for my opponent because she's basically no different from a Republican."

Anyway, if Warren got the nomination, I'd be excited to support her (though I fear that she speaks so boringly that she will not be a good candidate for the masses).
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:35 am... quasi-Republican corporate shill...
I mean ... that one kinda fits her and Biden both, no?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:35 am
Joe K wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am2. The whole “deliberately weakened” argument is meaningless nonsense that could be used against anyone who ever runs in a primary. Were you similarly mad at Obama for “deliberately weakening” Clinton back in 2008 when he chose to run against her and she was the presumptive nominee? Or, for that matter, Clinton for “deliberately weakening” Obama when she stayed in the race — and even prepared pitches to Superdelegates to override the public’s votes — even after it was clear he was the frontrunner?
It wasn't merely the fact of participating in a primary. It was pushing false attacks for months during the primary - against both Hillary and the party whose nomination he was supposedly seeking - and continuing to do so long after it was clear Sanders had no chance to be the nominee. I don't recall either Clinton or Obama spending months falsely accusing the other of being quasi-Republican corporate shills or rigging the primaries, or pushing other false narratives. There were small things here and there, like you have in any contested election, but not a sustained negative approach.
How about this?
Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.

Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election". Obama has had to spend much of the campaign stressing he is a Christian not a Muslim and did not study at a madrassa. ...

Obama and Clinton go to the polls in the Texas and Ohio primaries next week. If Clinton loses either, her bid for the Democratic nomination could be over.

The picture showing Obama in a turban during a visit to Kenya in 2006 first appeared on the Drudge Report website today.

The site said it was circulated by Clinton's staffers and quoted one saying: "Wouldn't we be seeing this on the cover of every magazine if it were [Clinton]?"
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... aryclinton
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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mister d wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:37 am
Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:35 am... quasi-Republican corporate shill...
I mean ... that one kinda fits her and Biden both, no?
If you actually think that after watching a real corporation-friendly president, administration, and judiciary in action the past two and a half years (and after googling "Lamps Plus v Varela"), then sure.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Joe K wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:47 am How about this?
Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.

Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election". Obama has had to spend much of the campaign stressing he is a Christian not a Muslim and did not study at a madrassa. ...

Obama and Clinton go to the polls in the Texas and Ohio primaries next week. If Clinton loses either, her bid for the Democratic nomination could be over.

The picture showing Obama in a turban during a visit to Kenya in 2006 first appeared on the Drudge Report website today.

The site said it was circulated by Clinton's staffers and quoted one saying: "Wouldn't we be seeing this on the cover of every magazine if it were [Clinton]?"
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... aryclinton
I think that makes my point. How many speeches did Hillary give saying that Obama was a Kenyan Muslim?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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I'm with Joe K & G-Chedda on this one completely.

If the entire Democratic party was in fear of a black man becoming president in 2008 what exactly does that say about the Democratic party in the first place? That they are no better than...I'll let you finish that.

Regardless, the Old Guard Democrats are the palatable versions of the GOP. They insulate and cater to the voting old people who desperately need their present at the cost of their children's futures.

Bernie is the old guy non-Democrat with far more progressive, liberal policies who says "fuck that" and thinks about the future. He's a better version of what a Democrat should be and pushed the party left.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pmIf the entire Democratic party was in fear of a black man becoming president in 2008 what exactly does that say about the Democratic party in the first place? That they are no better than...I'll let you finish that.
The entire Democratic party wasn't in fear of a black man becoming president in 2008. They were in fear of a black man *not* becoming president, and John McCain becoming president instead.

I am happy that Sanders has pushed the Dems to the left. I am not happy that the effect of his 2016 campaign was to push the US government way to the right, enabling things like "removal forces" and wink-and-nod approval of cops shooting black folks and massive corporate tax cuts and Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and gutting of environmental regulation and increased employer power over workers and nationwide attacks on abortion rights.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Yes, it was Bernie's fault that Hillary Clinton is an insufferable human being and people thought she sucked leading to being defeated by Donald Trump. There's always gotta be a scapegoat to avoid besmirching the Godqueen.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 11:52 amIf you actually think that after watching a real corporation-friendly president, administration, and judiciary in action the past two and a half years (and after googling "Lamps Plus v Varela"), then sure.
Just replace the word "real" with "more" and we'll be on the same page.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:25 pm Yes, it was Bernie's fault that Hillary Clinton is an insufferable human being and people thought she sucked leading to being defeated by Donald Trump. There's always gotta be a scapegoat to avoid besmirching the Godqueen.
After conceding, Sanders did 41 public campaign events for Clinton as part of the 2016 general election cycle. It’s estimated that 88% of his supporters voted for her in November. In contrast, Clinton did 13 public events for Obama in 2008 and about 75% of her supporters voted for him. (Remember the “Party Unity My Ass” movement of anti-Obama Clinton backers?) So I’m thinking that Bernie wasn’t exactly the problem for her.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Joe K wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:39 pm
Johnnie wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 12:25 pm Yes, it was Bernie's fault that Hillary Clinton is an insufferable human being and people thought she sucked leading to being defeated by Donald Trump. There's always gotta be a scapegoat to avoid besmirching the Godqueen.
After conceding, Sanders did 41 public campaign events for Clinton as part of the 2016 general election cycle. It’s estimated that 88% of his supporters voted for her in November. In contrast, Clinton did 13 public events for Obama in 2008 and about 75% of her supporters voted for him. (Remember the “Party Unity My Ass” movement of anti-Obama Clinton backers?) So I’m thinking that Bernie wasn’t exactly the problem for her.
Hey, I have absolutely no qualms with Sanders' conduct after the convention. He came through. It was just too late by then, for enough people to swing the election.

I'd like to see more on that 88% vs 75% thing. Given the demographics of the Democratic Party in 2008, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people who didn't vote for Obama are just hard core racists who have since gone over to MAGA.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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The really good exchange in this clip:
Interviewer: You believe he faked a disability?

Buttigieg: Do you believe he has a disability?

*AUDIENCE LAUGHS*

Buttigieg: Yeah, I mean at least not that one.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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This is too good to leave in only the politics thread:

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »

Good thread on the folly of Biden’s campaign:



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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Pruitt »

As an old (technically) white man, let me just say that old white men suck.

ETA: I say "technically" because I know that a hell of a lot of old white men would have liked to see my grandparents incinerated at some point. Also, if the Klan hates you, how "white" can you be? That's the excuse I hang on to anyway...
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by mister d »

So the Biden/Dem slogan is "We're offering you a do-over!" to people who very clearly aren't asking for a do-over. Sounds like a winner.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

It's gunna be so great when AOC says "Fuck Biden. He's a Democrat Trump who wants to live in the past." and the Democratic establishment flips their shit.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian »

Every time Biden makes a dumbshit remark like this he bleeds support. Only need to look at polling from when he entered the race to now. By the time people actually start voting he'll be an afterthought. He's so out of touch he has no idea what the mood is really like in the country.
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