2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian »

Johnnie wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:03 pm It still, still fucking boggles my mind that Republicans can be physical manifestations of cognitive dissonance and living contradictions but they don't get called on it often enough.

Alt Right Nazis with tiki torches who are emboldened by Donald Trump's administration can chant Blood and Soil and Jews will not replace us yet still the GOP will rally around Israel and the Netanyahu regime and say anything said against them is antisemitic while simultaneously calling themselves the Party of Lincoln despite the fact that those same Nazis, and a significant portion of Trump supporters, will wave a Rebel Flag and rally around Robert E. Lee/Civil War statues.

My brain breaks every time I think of this.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Yeah Joe, you boring moderate palatable Trump, you really don't have to....

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Powerful stuff.

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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »



Trying to appeal to the “good Republicans” worked so well in 2016. (Remember Chuck Schumer’s line: “for every blue-collar voter we lose in Western Pennsylvania we’ll gain two in the Philadelphia suburbs”?) Let’s try it again with a less intelligent and articulate candidate!
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Joe K wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:00 amLet’s try it again with a less intelligent and articulate candidate!
Maybe they did do their homework on what worked in 2016.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

I'd really like to know what voting block really wants to choose him over the field. Because I feel like I'm in my own curated bubble where people are inspired for Warren, Sanders, or another candidate, yet there seems to be this massive amount of people who look at all the options and go "I'm with Joe!"

He offers nothing! There are no plans from him. He's an empty suit running on the "I'm likable! I can reach these rural voters! And I have a black friend!" platform.

I swear, there's this sect of non-progressive old white people who flat out insist that mayo is spicy and raisins belong in potato salad. And they always seem to be in power all the fucking time. They are just stuck in this comfortable little bubble and since they don't feel any sort of inconvenience in their lives it doesn't exist and they have the gaul to pretend that their ideas to "fix your problems" are to be grateful for what you have now. I fucking hate these people.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:47 am I'd really like to know what voting block really wants to choose him over the field. Because I feel like I'm in my own curated bubble where people are inspired for Warren, Sanders, or another candidate, yet there seems to be this massive amount of people who look at all the options and go "I'm with Joe!"

He offers nothing! There are no plans from him. He's an empty suit running on the "I'm likable! I can reach these rural voters! And I have a black friend!" platform.

I swear, there's this sect of non-progressive old white people who flat out insist that mayo is spicy and raisins belong in potato salad. And they always seem to be in power all the fucking time. They are just stuck in this comfortable little bubble and since they don't feel any sort of inconvenience in their lives it doesn't exist and they have the gaul to pretend that their ideas to "fix your problems" are to be grateful for what you have now. I fucking hate these people.
I think it's the people who still read an actual local newspaper, avoid national papers, and watch the evening news every night, (like my 69 (nice!) year old parents(ugh)). It's all name recognition, and surface level coverage, with absolutely nothing in depth. My parents aren't so bland re: food (although my dad would be if not for my mom). I wouldn't really say he's in power, but they are retirement age white folks who set themselves up to not really have to worry about finances in retirement.

That being said, I've been doing as much as I possibly can to email them and my Trump voting in laws Liz Warren stuff so that they're better informed. My fucking mother in law mentioned some sexist reason why she wouldn't vote for Warren to my wife (too shrill, pushy, something like that), and I nearly lost it. There's work yet to do with this generation.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »

Biden 2020 feels like Kerry 2004 all over again. Democratic voters are understandably desperate to defeat a despised GOP incumbent and are backing the establishment candidate they think other voters would like instead of candidates who they would actually prefer to be President. But voting based on perceived electability is a very imperfect science. Obama and Trump were both widely perceived to be “unelectable” and look how that turned out. And what makes it an even more dangerous gamble this time around is the obvious signs that Biden is slipping mentally. At least Kerry was more than capable of doing the job.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Joe K wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:20 am Biden 2020 feels like Kerry 2004 all over again. Democratic voters are understandably desperate to defeat a despised GOP incumbent and are backing the establishment candidate they think other voters would like instead of candidates who they would actually prefer to be President. But voting based on perceived electability is a very imperfect science. Obama and Trump were both widely perceived to be “unelectable” and look how that turned out. And what makes it an even more dangerous gamble this time around is the obvious signs that Biden is slipping mentally. At least Kerry was more than capable of doing the job.
Kerry was Swift-boated. Not sure Biden has the awareness or fortitude to withstand the inevitable attack.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Joe K »

EnochRoot wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:48 am
Joe K wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:20 am Biden 2020 feels like Kerry 2004 all over again. Democratic voters are understandably desperate to defeat a despised GOP incumbent and are backing the establishment candidate they think other voters would like instead of candidates who they would actually prefer to be President. But voting based on perceived electability is a very imperfect science. Obama and Trump were both widely perceived to be “unelectable” and look how that turned out. And what makes it an even more dangerous gamble this time around is the obvious signs that Biden is slipping mentally. At least Kerry was more than capable of doing the job.
Kerry was Swift-boated. Not sure Biden has the awareness or fortitude to withstand the inevitable attack.
That's kind of my point (both sentences of your post). Dems backed Kerry in large part because they thought a bona fide war hero would have a shield against the Bush/Rove version GOP hatred machine. And obviously it didn't work that way. Just like nominating an older, "non-PC," white male who speaks fondly of Republicans sure as hell won't stop the hatred from the Trump version of the machine.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by degenerasian »

Its different now. It's not about being safe, its about passion. Who were the favorites in the GOP 4 years ago. Bush and Rubio. They were blah. Cruz was the first candidate to declare and was laughed at. Trump was a joke. But they showed passion. Not afraid to take chances.

Bernie also had passion and turned a formality into an actual race.

Dems need passion in 2020. That's probably Warren.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Why Bernie's website doesn't have flip flops with Kamala on them, I have no idea.

Kamala Says She’s Uncomfortable with Bernie’s Health-Care Plan Two Years After Cosponsoring It

She made the statement in front of her wealthy donors.

I swear to God we're gonna end up with Biden/Harris aren't we?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:24 pm Why Bernie's website doesn't have flip flops with Kamala on them, I have no idea.

Kamala Says She’s Uncomfortable with Bernie’s Health-Care Plan Two Years After Cosponsoring It

She made the statement in front of her wealthy donors.

I swear to God we're gonna end up with Biden/Harris aren't we?
Harris is a complete political opportunist. I honestly think she’s the most disingenuous candidate in the Democratic primary. She branded herself as a progressive at the start of her Senate career to build a national following but now that Warren and Sanders have blocked that lane in the primary she’ll just shift back to being an establishment centrist in case Biden falters (or more likely, to be Biden’s VP pick).

Considering that she built her California political career through social connections with rich donors in San Francisco and “tough on crime” challenges to more progressive prosecutors, I know which version of the Harris campaign is more believable.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Johnnie »

Bingo.

She can legitimately play the "I was directly affected by your politics, Joe" card on a debate stage and score political points.

But when it comes down to it, she's just greedy for power and will use that to try to one-up him. However, she is just another moderate who looks different but is basically more of the same.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by degenerasian »

At this point Warren is the choice. I can't see any other winnable option.

Who would be Warren's VP?
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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degenerasian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:47 am At this point Warren is the choice. I can't see any other winnable option.

Who would be Warren's VP?
Warren/Buttigeig would be a pretty formidable ticket. If it's Warren I'd be pretty surprised if the VP isn't a white man. I'd be further surprised if it isn't a young-ish, white man.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Feels like Booker is the logical pairing.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Yeah, I can see that logic too, though I think that ticket might be a little too "Northeastern". I realize the Veep spot isn't as important as many people think but it can shore up some minor holes here and there and help in reinforcing the campaign message. I think Pence helped Trump in the Midwest a bit more than most people think.

Mayor Pete being from the Midwest, being gay and being a veteran helps Warren in a lot of little ways.

ETA: If he doesn't run for the Senate after dropping out of the race, Beto is another pretty obvious choice for a lot of similar reasons. Maybe having a Massachusetts/Texas ticket will harken people back to the glory days of 1960.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Buttigieg would be phenomenal for the optics of a VP debate with Pence.

But seriously though, who has the People of Color vote? None of the milquetoast white guys are it. And then you have Booker and Harris who just aren't there nationally at the moment. (Plus there is a strong lack of authenticity with those two.) And despite Bernie having the Killer Mikes of the world in his side, that's not enough.

The name that strikes me most? Stacy Abrams. She should be governor of Georgia right now and would be if it weren't for voter suppression. What's she's doing to combat that is subtly huge.

Warren/Abrams would be fucking amazing. (Even though Bernie is my #1. Just sucks he's going to get pushed into the scary "socialist" corner. And thus "not electable enough" which is bullshit.)
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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You could give me 100 pairings and that would almost assuredly be in the top 5 if I were the only vote, but the electability thing would make it a non-starter.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Johnnie wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:25 pm Buttigieg would be phenomenal for the optics of a VP debate with Pence.

But seriously though, who has the People of Color vote? None of the milquetoast white guys are it. And then you have Booker and Harris who just aren't there nationally at the moment. (Plus there is a strong lack of authenticity with those two.) And despite Bernie having the Killer Mikes of the world in his side, that's not enough.

The name that strikes me most? Stacy Abrams. She should be governor of Georgia right now and would be if it weren't for voter suppression. What's she's doing to combat that is subtly huge.

Warren/Abrams would be fucking amazing. (Even though Bernie is my #1. Just sucks he's going to get pushed into the scary "socialist" corner. And thus "not electable enough" which is bullshit.)
Buttigeig has put out a lot of social reform platforms for the AA community, though I'm not sure a ton of it has been picked up by the mainstream media. Any combination of Sanders/Warren/Pete would be fine. I don't care for Harris or Klobuchar as a nom but honestly I've just grown tired of it already. If the Democratic party's aim was to inspire apathy early by going 2016 Republican with the field, they've hit that nail on the head. It's time for a progressive candidate and we don't have to swing all the way to Sanders but we've got to do better than Biden. Pretty simple.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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I think the most likely outcome is that Biden gets the nomination (as bad as he has looked, his lead in the polls isn’t going anywhere) and picks Harris or Abrams as his running mate. An African-American woman would make sense for him to try to balance out his creepy behavior around women and questionable record on racial issues.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Spoiler alert: the VP nom is gonna be Tim Kaine.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Joe K wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:45 pm I think the most likely outcome is that Biden gets the nomination (as bad as he has looked, his lead in the polls isn’t going anywhere) and picks Harris or Abrams as his running mate. An African-American woman would make sense for him to try to balance out his creepy behavior around women and questionable record on racial issues.
I think it's entirely too early to even take a remote guess at who is going to get the nomination, but I understand what the polls are saying too.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Biden will pick Jeff Flake.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Could just be overly optimistic, but I think Warren's gonna win the nomination. But we'll have to be subjected to a lot of "bUt cAn a wOmAn wIn a nAtIoNaL eLeCtIOn!" bullshit for several months afterwards.

I do think Trump is afraid of Warren (not, like literally afraid -- electorally afraid) which is reason enough to nominate her even if her policies weren't almost all outstanding.

(And agreed on it being too early to really "worry" about it in any meaningful way.)
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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brian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:50 pm Could just be overly optimistic, but I think Warren's gonna win the nomination. But we'll have to be subjected to a lot of "bUt cAn a wOmAn wIn a nAtIoNaL eLeCtIOn!" bullshit for several months afterwards.

I do think Trump is afraid of Warren (not, like literally afraid -- electorally afraid) which is reason enough to nominate her even if her policies weren't almost all outstanding.

(And agreed on it being too early to really "worry" about it in any meaningful way.)
I don't think Trump is afraid of her at all. I think he's incapable of conceiving that he'd lose to anyone. He can't wait to unleash all of his Pocahontas jokes.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Shirley wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:13 pm
brian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:50 pm Could just be overly optimistic, but I think Warren's gonna win the nomination. But we'll have to be subjected to a lot of "bUt cAn a wOmAn wIn a nAtIoNaL eLeCtIOn!" bullshit for several months afterwards.

I do think Trump is afraid of Warren (not, like literally afraid -- electorally afraid) which is reason enough to nominate her even if her policies weren't almost all outstanding.

(And agreed on it being too early to really "worry" about it in any meaningful way.)
I don't think Trump is afraid of her at all. I think he's incapable of conceiving that he'd lose to anyone. He can't wait to unleash all of his Pocahontas jokes.
I think on an instinctual level he knows that his message is not going to play very well in the very places he needs to win (the Midwest, the "woke-ish" South (NC, VA, GA) against a true economic populist like Warren or Bernie.

The "Pocahontas" stuff might amuse the racists in his base, but I don't think it moves the needle with anyone else.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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I think he would refuse to debate most of these candidates except Biden.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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Oh man, did I predict that here or "in real life"? He's absolutely not going to debate, atleast not in anything resembling the standard format.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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mister d wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:19 pm Oh man, did I predict that here or "in real life"? He's absolutely not going to debate, atleast not in anything resembling the standard format.

I do feel like it's come up at least once before. ANd yes, I could see some kind of modified format where it's not a true debate but just a chance to answer different questions.

I still maintain that if he does agree to debate anyone, in the first response a democrat should call him Lyin Donnie or something. He can dish out the derogative nicknames, but I am positive he can't take it.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by degenerasian »

Wait, who determines the format of the debate? Not Trump.

The networks decide? and if he doesn't show up, it looks worse for him.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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degenerasian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:03 pm Wait, who determines the format of the debate? Not Trump.

The networks decide? and if he doesn't show up, it looks worse for him.
The candidates decide. So if one of them decides they don't want to debate that's how it is. Of course, the networks could force his hand by agreeing to air a town hall with the Dem candidate instead, for example.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by degenerasian »

Trumps ego thinks hes the greatest debater so I dont see this as a problem.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian »

Yeah, for whatever it's worth I expect he'll probably do at least one debate. I don't think that's something he's especially afraid of.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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The only thing he's been successfully managed on is mostly avoiding spontaneous nationally broadcast speaking of any kind.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

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"The Fake News Media determined yesterday that they want to LIE to the American public about my positions on [issue]. The debate will be full of terrible "journalists" who want to see America -- and ME -- FAIL. There will be no debate!"
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by mister d »

Its probably the right move strategically anyway. He's on this weird untouchable cloud right now, agreeing to debate a challenger acknowledges the challenger's status as worthy of sharing time/stage.
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by Shirley »

brian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:17 pm The "Pocahontas" stuff might amuse the racists in his base, but I don't think it moves the needle with anyone else.
One thing I think we've all learned by now is that that stuff DOES move the needle. It's easy and visceral, so it becomes part of the daily news story. Did she really claim Native American heritage? When did she do so? Did she gain any advantage? How do Native Americans feel about that? Is she fundamentally dishonest? Is it racist for Trump to call her that? Is it racist for her to pretend to be Native American? and on and on and on...
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Re: 2020: The Democratic Presidential Nomination Thread

Post by brian »

I honestly kind of hope he doesn't. Debates in the current climate are essentially no-win for the Dem candidate anyway. If Trump ducks it, he/she can just go full blast about what a wimp and a pussy he is.

What's gonna come up in a debate that is going to be some kind of major "gotcha" from Warren or Bernie or Biden or whomever?
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