Shirley wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:05 pmSo, it's cool when Hillary Clinton, Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd, and James Carville go on national news shows and say that Bernie is a do-nothing, unlikeable, Nazi, Castro who can't possibly win a national election. But if Bernie supporters fight back, they are portrayed as an angry mob. I guess it really IS valuable to control most of the national media.
FWIW, I'm not a 100% Bernie supporter (my wife is), but it's hard not to see this shit.
How about somebody notices that despite all of this apparently sanctioned national criticism (and it happened four years ago too), Sanders is kicking ass and gaining steam? It seems like that should be a good thing, right?
This is the problem...the victim complex...again, from the Trump playbook. Clinton and Carville are private citizens that can say whatever the fuck they want. Chris Matthews hosts an opinion show like Hannity or Tucker Carlson. Chuck Todd was reading/quoting an article (as has been pointed out before, nuance is dead btw). The notion that the Dems "control the media" is a tired trope that holds no water. The media as whole is biased towards one thing - eyeballs (or is that two things?). Ratings and $$$ trump all else.
The "gaining steam" is false as well. Prior to the primaries Bernie was the front runner until Biden entered the race. Once the real campaigning started more coverage went to Warren, Buttigieg, et. al. because of new blood/new stories...again...eyeballs. Bernie's been known nationally since 2015 so what new is their to cover or say about him? Just like the Dem field turned on Buttigieg when he turned into a front runner last week the media will soon follow. Bernie has been treated the same as everyone else.
It's often said policy doesn't matter...people vote for who they like, etc. but it does matter every April 15. Bottom line is Bernie has a math problem...the cost of what he wants to do. I agree that this country needs dramatic policy shifts in healthcare, taxation and priority spending and Bernie has the policies to do that. However, it does no good if he doesn't get elected and he is the scariest candidate for moderates and...like it or not...whoever gets the nomination needs moderates.
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
Right, so don't passively point out the disparity because that's playing the victim but also don't fight back because that makes you uniquely aggressive. Its almost like this is all intentional.
Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:08 pm
Right, so don't passively point out the disparity because that's playing the victim but also don't fight back because that makes you uniquely aggressive. Its almost like this is all intentional.
The “Hillary Clinton is a private citizen” line always cracks me up. Former First Lady, US Senator, Secretary of State and two-time Presidential candidate who still has close ties to many big donors and party officials — she’s just like you and me posting on message boards!
HaulCitgo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:51 am
Black and brown folks are going to sit this one out. There is nothing here for them. The white liberal elite movement doesn't speak to them and I don't think the policy helps much either. Minimum wage and student loan proposals will have unintended consequences that disproportionately hurt them. If the Democrats freeze out moderates and there is low turnout from brown people there won't be enough votes to beat even a weakened Trump.
All they have to do is run a moderate to stand there in a suit and the electorate can vote in a Trump referendum.
Do you think some of the black vote even goes to Trump? I hear blacks have been doing better in the last 4 years (true or not,
I'm not sure) and if Democrats flat out ignore them or their policies actually hurt them as you said....
It's not like it needs to be a big swing. If the GOP can get even 2% more of the national black vote, that might swing some states.
Look at the Canadian who actually thinks blacks can vote in America.
My avatar corresponds on my place in the Swamp posting list with the all-time Home Run list. Number 45 is Paul Konerko with 439.
If the Bernie Bots could just somehow harness that energy that goes into petty grievances every time someone disrespects them or King Bernie the tiniest little bit, the country would be energy independent.
Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:46 pmSo it's looking at the moment that Bernie is the most electable. But the establishment dictates otherwise, so he we are.
Bernie got about one-fourth of the votes among Democrats in two very white states. I don't think that says anything about who is more or less electable in a national election where Republicans and Independents get to vote also.
The most recent Quinnipiac national poll has Bernie one point better than Biden and one point worse than Bloomberg.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
On whether people are on board generally with going after Trump at the ballot box, I've seen some narratives trying to push the view that the turnout was down from four years ago.I don't know how Iowa ended up on that count (because, clusterfuck), but here's on NH:
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:08 pm
Right, so don't passively point out the disparity because that's playing the victim but also don't fight back because that makes you uniquely aggressive. Its almost like this is all intentional.
The “Hillary Clinton is a private citizen” line always cracks me up. Former First Lady, US Senator, Secretary of State and two-time Presidential candidate who still has close ties to many big donors and party officials — she’s just like you and me posting on message boards!
Actual disparity vs. perceived disparity are two different things. Just because there are 10 negative stories about Bernie doesn't mean there have to be 10 negative stories about every Dem candidate. Bernie has bold ideas and, in true smart-real-world life, bold ideas should be questioned. People should try being motherfucking adults and if they hear criticism, address it in a professional fashion.
Here is a story from 3 days ago: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics ... index.html
The fact that there are not similar articles about Warren or Buttigieg doesn't mean bias...it can actually mean that their supporters are not engaging such behavior.
Also, I'm not saying Hillary is just like you and me. I'm saying she is beholden to no rules of conduct, law, etc. that prevent her from saying/doing things other than laws or social norms that apply to everyone else. But thanks for proving my point that nuance is dead. In true liberal fashion better to overreact and engage the circular firing squad than accept something that doesn't pass some sort of purity test.
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
Johnnie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:46 pmSo it's looking at the moment that Bernie is the most electable. But the establishment dictates otherwise, so he we are.
Bernie got about one-fourth of the votes among Democrats in two very white states. I don't think that says anything about who is more or less electable in a national election where Republicans and Independents get to vote also.
The most recent Quinnipiac national poll has Bernie one point better than Biden and one point worse than Bloomberg.
Sanders polls a hell of a lot better with minority voters than Buttigieg or Klobuchar. So not sure why you think the fact that IA and NH are very white states hurts him. Particularly if the Biden collapse continues.
Joe K wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:40 pmSanders polls a hell of a lot better with minority voters than Buttigieg or Klobuchar. So not sure why you think the fact that IA and NH are very white states hurts him. Particularly if the Biden collapse continues.
I'm not saying it hurts him. I'm saying getting a quarter of the vote among Democrats only in two non-demographically representative states doesn't establish electability.
I think it'll be interesting to see what happens in South Carolina. On the one hand, Sanders got crushed there last time. (He lost 73-26.) On the other hand, as you say, he is polling better among minority voters. If Biden's collapse continues and Buttigieg and/or Klobuchar keep moving forward ... ?
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
You crack me the fuck up. All these private citizens and their opinions are nothing more than petty grievances.
Hilarious.
It's so hilarious Trump rode it all the way to the White House.
Some of you are just as obsessed with Hillary as Trump is. Why pay her so much attention? Is she out there campaigning? Does she have an army political operatives working with a candidate to promote her agenda? She has the right to earn $$$...she gets paid now for being just for being her...just like hundreds of other pundits and former politicians.
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
Bernie and Liz combined to pull in around 35 percent of the vote in NH. Pete, Amy and Biden pulled in around 53 percent.
Let's say that trend continues, where Sanders (and what's left of Warren's dwindling followers) continue to win a plurality, while the combined moderate/centrist candidates are pulling in a majority.
I know this is obvious in bringing up a contested convention earlier today, but I don't know if people understand the fundamental math issues here. If Pete winds up pulling in the rest of the moderates, say, but Bernie went into the convention with 40 percent of the delegates.
I think we all know how that's going to go over with Bernie's supporters.
So, yeah, I'm tempering my optimism as I noodle this stuff out a bit more.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
For fun, says the whiny Bernie supporter, lets see how hard the mainstream goes after Buttigieg for his press release touting support from black leaders in South Carolina that was fabricated using the "I have your support unless you explicitly opt out" strategy, which included Bernie's state co-chair. Especially if he does well in Nevada.
Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
You crack me the fuck up. All these private citizens and their opinions are nothing more than petty grievances.
Hilarious.
It's so hilarious Trump rode it all the way to the White House.
Some of you are just as obsessed with Hillary as Trump is. Why pay her so much attention? Is she out there campaigning? Does she have an army political operatives working with a candidate to promote her agenda? She has the right to earn $$$...she gets paid now for being just for being her...just like hundreds of other pundits and former politicians.
I pay her exactly zero attention until it's thrust into headlines that she's being a cunt in a new documentary. But that's just a petty grievance! I shouldn't be so would up over such a non influential private citizen! I'm such a victim!
All the feel goods about 'voting blue no matter who' better also resonate with her, Carville, Matthews, and Todd amongst all the other elitest Democrats like it does with people like me. I wonder if there's a Brian in her life going 'Now Hillary. The point is to beat Trump. If Bernie wins the nomination you better vote for him.'
Highly unfuckinglikely.
mister d wrote:Couldn't have pegged me better.
EnochRoot wrote:I mean, whatever. Johnnie's all hot cuz I ride him.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:38 pm
For fun, says the whiny Bernie supporter, lets see how hard the mainstream goes after Buttigieg for his press release touting support from black leaders in South Carolina that was fabricated using the "I have your support unless you explicitly opt out" strategy, which included Bernie's state co-chair. Especially if he does well in Nevada.
This is my thing about Pete, he just seems really smarmy to me.
I was out early worrying about his McKinsey background and just in general that everything he did seemed so nakedly and aggressively to be about eventually running for higher office.
I softened on that stuff, because saying a guy is essentially chasing his dream isn't really a negative in any other context.
But the fact that he appears to have created fake social media accounts to praise himself, and the way he acted coming out of Iowa, and if this now turns out to be true...
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:38 pm
For fun, says the whiny Bernie supporter, lets see how hard the mainstream goes after Buttigieg for his press release touting support from black leaders in South Carolina that was fabricated using the "I have your support unless you explicitly opt out" strategy, which included Bernie's state co-chair. Especially if he does well in Nevada.
This is my thing about Pete, he just seems really smarmy to me.
I was out early worrying about his McKinsey background and just in general that everything he did seemed so nakedly and aggressively to be about eventually running for higher office.
I softened on that stuff, because saying a guy is essentially chasing his dream isn't really a negative in any other context.
But the fact that he appears to have created fake social media accounts to praise himself, and the way he acted coming out of Iowa, and if this now turns out to be true...
You're 100% right. He fucking sucks, and I'll happily vote for him in November over the orange menace.
Warren-Sanders supporter, in that order.
Until everything is less insane, I'm mixing weed with wine.
You crack me the fuck up. All these private citizens and their opinions are nothing more than petty grievances.
Hilarious.
It's so hilarious Trump rode it all the way to the White House.
Some of you are just as obsessed with Hillary as Trump is. Why pay her so much attention? Is she out there campaigning? Does she have an army political operatives working with a candidate to promote her agenda? She has the right to earn $$$...she gets paid now for being just for being her...just like hundreds of other pundits and former politicians.
I pay her exactly zero attention until it's thrust into headlines that she's being a cunt in a new documentary. But that's just a petty grievance! I shouldn't be so would up over such a non influential private citizen! I'm such a victim!
All the feel goods about 'voting blue no matter who' better also resonate with her, Carville, Matthews, and Todd amongst all the other elitest Democrats like it does with people like me. I wonder if there's a Brian in her life going 'Now Hillary. The point is to beat Trump. If Bernie wins the nomination you better vote for him.'
Highly unfuckinglikely.
"The Dems are terrible!"
"The Dems are cunts!"
"The Dems are trash!"
"The Dems just want to line their own pockets!"
"The Dems would rather see Trump win!"
"Gosh, the Dems sure say a lot of mean things about people like me!"
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:38 pm
For fun, says the whiny Bernie supporter, lets see how hard the mainstream goes after Buttigieg for his press release touting support from black leaders in South Carolina that was fabricated using the "I have your support unless you explicitly opt out" strategy, which included Bernie's state co-chair. Especially if he does well in Nevada.
This is my thing about Pete, he just seems really smarmy to me.
I was out early worrying about his McKinsey background and just in general that everything he did seemed so nakedly and aggressively to be about eventually running for higher office.
I softened on that stuff, because saying a guy is essentially chasing his dream isn't really a negative in any other context.
But the fact that he appears to have created fake social media accounts to praise himself, and the way he acted coming out of Iowa, and if this now turns out to be true...
You're 100% right. He fucking sucks, and I'll happily vote for him in November over the orange menace.
Got a LOL outta me.
You can lead a horse to fish, but you can't fish out a horse.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:38 pm
For fun, says the whiny Bernie supporter, lets see how hard the mainstream goes after Buttigieg for his press release touting support from black leaders in South Carolina that was fabricated using the "I have your support unless you explicitly opt out" strategy, which included Bernie's state co-chair. Especially if he does well in Nevada.
That story is three months old and, I guess, a campaign strategy? Is it stupid and and in poor taste? Sure. Does it warrant a segment on NBC news? Probably not so you'll probably get your way and be able to use it as another feather in your cap of bias against Bernie.
I would like expensive whiskey.
We only have beer & wine...
What am I, 12?
Even before delving into the racial issues, which are very relevant here, you don't think misinformation in the form of claiming the support of a rival candidate's co-chair is worthy of coverage?
Johnnie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 pmOh shit, you just reminded me about toilet paper.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:33 pm
Even before delving into the racial issues, which are very relevant here, you don't think misinformation in the form of claiming the support of a rival candidate's co-chair is worthy of coverage?
Who's the co-chair in this? (I'm not familiar with the story.)
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:33 pm
Even before delving into the racial issues, which are very relevant here, you don't think misinformation in the form of claiming the support of a rival candidate's co-chair is worthy of coverage?
It’s certainly not as newsworthy as random people on Twitter with no affiliation with the Sanders campaign being mean online.
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:33 pm
Even before delving into the racial issues, which are very relevant here, you don't think misinformation in the form of claiming the support of a rival candidate's co-chair is worthy of coverage?
Who's the co-chair in this? (I'm not familiar with the story.)
mister d wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:33 pm
Even before delving into the racial issues, which are very relevant here, you don't think misinformation in the form of claiming the support of a rival candidate's co-chair is worthy of coverage?
Who's the co-chair in this? (I'm not familiar with the story.)
I don’t know about that IG influencer crap but Bloomberg is absolutely trying to buy this election. Not only is he spending an insane amount on ads he’s also been hiring up tons of staffers in Super Tuesday states and paying them
well above typical rates. So it will be very difficult for the other candidates to build any kind of infrastructure in those states. Sanders will probably be okay because he has his army of deranged Bernie Bros but this is going to be a big challenge for Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Biden and Warren to deal with.
Honestly, win or lose this election, it's time to bail on this country. Trump losing buys me the three or so years I need to do it relatively comfortably.
brian wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:07 amBernie Bots not doing themselves any favors by attacking the Culinary Union. Unite Here, which controls the Culinary hadn't really taken a position and was still a nominal supporter of Bernie, but this could change things. You can't win an election for dogcatcher in Nevada without the Culinary.
Geoconda Arguello-Kline, the Union leader who put out that statement, sits on a Center for American Progress advisory board. CAP is run by Neera Tanden, a Clinton arch-loyalist who absolutely despises Sanders. Arguello-Kline worked directly with Tanden back in 2016 to try to brainstorm ways to hurt Sanders’ popularity with the union. So, like most stories about Big Mean Bernie Bros, this is more Astro-turfed bullshit.
I get that Bernie can't fail, he can only be failed, but at some point he's going to have to have a come to Jesus moment with his most rabid supporters or risk blowing everything in November. I've said all along he's got no chance against Trump in November and I very much hope I'm wrong, but at this point I doubt he'd even win the popular vote against Trump.
(All that said, I thought before he was going to win Nevada in a walk and I'd still put him as about a 60 percent favorite at this point, but the rank and file Culinary members don't like people shitting on their union. And like it or not, that's the message that's getting sent here. You guys are on Twitter. Are you really doubting that there wasn't some kind of vitriolic response from his supporters about the one sheeter?)
