The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

Post by wlu_lax6 »

Oracle v. NZ for the Cup. Oracles starts up 1-0

The NZ is the one team that did not agree to the framework for the next 2 races in advance of this competition. So NZ wins we can go back to lawsuits. If Oracle wins we will have have another cup in 2 years (with a world series for the time leading up to it). They will go foils again.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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I got a chance the races today...and I gotta say....It just doesn't seem like "Sailing" to me. Yes, the foiling cats are really cool, and the technology is amazing, but its just pretty much a drag race. No sail changes make things pretty boring.

That said, good on Oracle for at least winning one race. Clearly, they did something over the past week to get more speed out of the "boat", but Spithall really boned things up on the first race today. An OCS? And then a foul? Yuck.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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DaveInSeattle wrote:I got a chance the races today...and I gotta say....It just doesn't seem like "Sailing" to me. Yes, the foiling cats are really cool, and the technology is amazing, but its just pretty much a drag race. No sail changes make things pretty boring.

That said, good on Oracle for at least winning one race. Clearly, they did something over the past week to get more speed out of the "boat", but Spithall really boned things up on the first race today. An OCS? And then a foul? Yuck.
Saw an article that Dennis Conner is hoping the New Zealanders win. He thinks they will go back to monohulls and a more traditional cup, instead of the every 2 year thing that Oracle will put in if they win.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote:
DaveInSeattle wrote:I got a chance the races today...and I gotta say....It just doesn't seem like "Sailing" to me. Yes, the foiling cats are really cool, and the technology is amazing, but its just pretty much a drag race. No sail changes make things pretty boring.

That said, good on Oracle for at least winning one race. Clearly, they did something over the past week to get more speed out of the "boat", but Spithall really boned things up on the first race today. An OCS? And then a foul? Yuck.
Saw an article that Dennis Conner is hoping the New Zealanders win. He thinks they will go back to monohulls and a more traditional cup, instead of the every 2 year thing that Oracle will put in if they win.
I hope so. I want to see actual sailors out on the water. One of the "cyclors" on the Kiwi boat has never sailed before, but he's a gold medal winning track cyclist. And last cycle Oracle had a guy who was an Olympic gold medal rower as a grinder.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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I have a slight interest in the Sydney to Hobart race (guessing DiS may have some interest) after reading a book about the version of the race that ended in tragedy.

I know Wild Oats ended up not winning this race because of the near crash they talk about in this article.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/27/sport ... index.html
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote:I have a slight interest in the Sydney to Hobart race (guessing DiS may have some interest) after reading a book about the version of the race that ended in tragedy.

I know Wild Oats ended up not winning this race because of the near crash they talk about in this article.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/27/sport ... index.html


Wild Oats BONED that so bad. That was such a clear foul...they were trying to do a 'lee-bow' tack to stay underneath Comanche, but didn't do it quick enough, and Comanche (who were on starboard and had rights) had to alter course. That's something you learn in like the first week of sailboat racing.

And what really doesn't make sense is that Oats was clear ahead...they could have just crossed them and then tacked on top of them. The manuever really made no sense at all.

I can kind of understand not doing the turns. Doing a 720 on a conventional boat is a pain in the ass, and I can't imagine the choreography required to do it on a boat with canting keels.

SideNote: I met the skipper from Wild Oats in Hobart, and sat and talked with him for about 30 minutes. I had no idea who he was at the time (short of that he was from Oats..he had a Wild Oats shirt on), and he was drunk as hell. Nice guy though.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Speaking of Wild Oats, and the Sydney-Hobart race...looks like some funny business again.

Sydney to Hobart 2018: Protest lodged after Wild Oats XI victory
Four years in the making and still smarting from being stripped of its 2017 win, Wild Oats XI and its crew took line honors for a record ninth time in one of the tensest finishes to the Rolex Sydney to Hobart yacht race in its 73-year history, but then faced an uncertain wait after an official protest was lodged.

Wild Oats XI crossed the line first after a four-way battle with other supermaxi contenders, closely followed by Black Jack, last year's winner Comanche and Infotrack.

But Black Jack's owner Peter Harburg cast doubt on the victory by claiming Wild Oats XI had infringed race rules by not having its AIS tracker system on, making them invisible to rivals.
Harburg initially was reported as saying he would not be making an official protest and a statement from the Wild Oats XI team denied the tracker had been turned off.

But on Friday came confirmation on the official race website that a protest had been lodged with the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia, the race organizers.
If you really want to get into the nitty-gritty of it, this thread on Sailing Anarchy is all over it.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Pretty under the radar at the moment, but the first races for the next cycle happened yesterday in New Zealand.

Boats this time are planing mono-hulls...pretty goofy, but they do go fast.

Here's some highlights:

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Does the World Series have any impact on the actual challenger series or cup? Or is this just a chance to race these expensive boats more than a few times.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:52 pm Does the World Series have any impact on the actual challenger series or cup? Or is this just a chance to race these expensive boats more than a few times.
They are basically 'tune-up' races before they go into the 'Challenger' series (the Prada Cup) which selects the boat to go against the Defender (ETNZ).

From what I saw, the Great Britain team has got a lot of work to do. They kept coming off plane...which is bad.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:14 pm
wlu_lax6 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:52 pm Does the World Series have any impact on the actual challenger series or cup? Or is this just a chance to race these expensive boats more than a few times.
They are basically 'tune-up' races before they go into the 'Challenger' series (the Prada Cup) which selects the boat to go against the Defender (ETNZ).

From what I saw, the Great Britain team has got a lot of work to do. They kept coming off plane...which is bad.
So next questions.
*Historically the best engineering won the AC. You could make up from a get out maneuvered to hit the start line beginning of the race. Still the case?
* Also Stars & Stripes withdrew last Wed. Did they spend millions on a boat and then bail right before racing or never got the program put together and the withdrawal was a formality? Based on the setups I saw in Bermuda a few years back, they would have spent a ton getting that far just on the space at the docs, team store, branding, etc.
* Does Dennis Conner still sail competitively?
* Stellan Skarsgård's better sailing movie..Wind or Pirates of the Caribbean
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:49 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:14 pm
wlu_lax6 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:52 pm Does the World Series have any impact on the actual challenger series or cup? Or is this just a chance to race these expensive boats more than a few times.
They are basically 'tune-up' races before they go into the 'Challenger' series (the Prada Cup) which selects the boat to go against the Defender (ETNZ).

From what I saw, the Great Britain team has got a lot of work to do. They kept coming off plane...which is bad.
So next questions.
*Historically the best engineering won the AC. You could make up from a get out maneuvered to hit the start line beginning of the race. Still the case?
Yeah, definitely. That's usually the case with match racing anyways, and with shorter course/faster boats, its going to be really hard to recover from losing the start.
* Also Stars & Stripes withdrew last Wed. Did they spend millions on a boat and then bail right before racing or never got the program put together and the withdrawal was a formality? Based on the setups I saw in Bermuda a few years back, they would have spent a ton getting that far just on the space at the docs, team store, branding, etc.
From what I've read, Stars & Stripes just never had the funding level they needed. They were never able to raise enough to build a boat, so they tried to buy a "spare" boat from the ETNZ program, but that was ruled as against the 'rules', so they are out.

* Does Dennis Conner still sail competitively?
I'm sure he still does races around San Diego, but he's really old now (78) and way too old to be out on one of these things.
* Stellan Skarsgård's better sailing movie..Wind or Pirates of the Caribbean
Wind is a terrible movie, with great sailing scenes.



For good sailing, I like Master and Commander.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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After watching the 4 days of the World Series...a few observations:
  • ETNZ has got the fast boat. And the best crew work.
  • America Magic is probably the second fastest.
  • Luna Rossa has a great skipper (James Spithill) who has won it before, but they are doing a weird thing where he drives on the starboard tack, and Francesco Bruni drives on the port tack. Strange setup.
  • INEOS Team UK is a dog of boat. And Sir Ben knows it. Will be interested to see if they can make any changes to get more boat speed.
  • It really seems to come down to which boat can stay up on the foils. When a boat screws up a tack/jibe and splashes down, it takes forever to get moving again.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Bit of a problem on ETNZ yesterday out training...

https://fb.watch/2Yd6ZvN_uM/
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Prada Cup racing, to select the Challenger that will go against ETNZ, started a couple of days ago. After getting smoked in the pre-Christmas races, the British boat has figured out their foil configuration, and have been dominate. And the Americans are all of a sudden the slow boat of the 3.

Then this happened yesterday:



The breeze was up yesterday, and it looks like they tried to jibe around the mark and got over-powered. Scary stuff.

ETA: Been talking with some folks, including a friend who works for North Sails in Auckland and was out on the course when this happened, the story is that when they went into the jibe rounding, the running backstay jammed up and so they couldn't depower the main when the puff hit.

There's a hole in the boat that was caused by a battery breaking loose and punching through the hull. The boat was sinking, but they managed to get floatation on it and tow it back to the team base. Supposedly going to be back on the water in 10 days.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Sorry about the size of this image, but here's the hull damage:

Image
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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After a few delays due to shifty breeze, good race going on (NBCSN) right now between Luna Rossa and the Brits.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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I'll keep updating this thread, even though I'm the only one who is reading it.

American Magic is out, losing in 4 races to Luna Rossa in the semi-finals of the Prada Cup. They just never seemed to get the boat dialed in, and after the mishap/damage a couple of weeks ago, they were super gun-shy about pushing the envelope too much...really conservative on the mark roundings and maneuvers. Then they had mechanical issues with the foil raising/lowering mechanisms. Just a complete disappointment.

So it will be Luna Rossa against Ineos in the Prada Cup finals for the right to go against ETNZ for the Cup. Best of 7 races...starts in 2 weeks.

Here's some video:

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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ETNZ was out practicing yesterday....and almost ate shit. Watch around the 0:20 mark, when they go into the darker patch of water, and are overpowered in a puff. That's a near-classic "round up", which is scary enough on a regular keel boat. I'm sure there were some white knuckles on that one.

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Italy wins the Prada Cup, beats UK 7-1, will take on NZ

https://www.espn.com/olympics/sailing/s ... aland-next
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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I see the listing in NBCSN when flipping channels and just don't even look in. And I like the event.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:54 am I see the listing in NBCSN when flipping channels and just don't even look in. And I like the event.
The coverage has been pretty good. The announcers know what they are talking about, and aren't too annoying.

Sir Ben did the port tack start on the final race, which is a totally baller move.

The Cup racing starts on March 6th, with the first to 7 wins taking it.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Cool story about the main sail technology...

FOILING CHANGES EVERYTHING
While sailing, the double-skinned mainsails can be trimmed to morph and move through the constantly changing demands the boat needs for straight-line speed, quick take-offs, and slick maneuvers. “The apparent wind angles are so small, we’re entering a whole new realm of sail design,” JB said. “Those sails need to be super flat, with low twist, to have the maximum efficiency at the higher speeds.”

That high level of versatility is a big part of why the double-skinned mainsail got the job, but it also demands precise and coordinated skills of the sailing crew. Never before have sailors trimmed to speeds so fast and loads so vast, all in a foiling boat in which a sudden lapse in the breeze can go to splashdown, race over.

“I think the biggest learning curve is going to happen with how the boats and sails and crews work together and manage the process of sailing the boats faster,” JB said.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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DaveInSeattle wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:24 pm Cool story about the main sail technology...

FOILING CHANGES EVERYTHING
While sailing, the double-skinned mainsails can be trimmed to morph and move through the constantly changing demands the boat needs for straight-line speed, quick take-offs, and slick maneuvers. “The apparent wind angles are so small, we’re entering a whole new realm of sail design,” JB said. “Those sails need to be super flat, with low twist, to have the maximum efficiency at the higher speeds.”

That high level of versatility is a big part of why the double-skinned mainsail got the job, but it also demands precise and coordinated skills of the sailing crew. Never before have sailors trimmed to speeds so fast and loads so vast, all in a foiling boat in which a sudden lapse in the breeze can go to splashdown, race over.

“I think the biggest learning curve is going to happen with how the boats and sails and crews work together and manage the process of sailing the boats faster,” JB said.
Isn't it all computers and ball bearings these days? Figure with AI/ML the boats would trim, optimize angles, predict wind changes, etc. Maybe restrictions during racing but like F1 or NASCAR where they rig them up during training and then let the teams work during the race per best process.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:35 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:24 pm Cool story about the main sail technology...

FOILING CHANGES EVERYTHING
While sailing, the double-skinned mainsails can be trimmed to morph and move through the constantly changing demands the boat needs for straight-line speed, quick take-offs, and slick maneuvers. “The apparent wind angles are so small, we’re entering a whole new realm of sail design,” JB said. “Those sails need to be super flat, with low twist, to have the maximum efficiency at the higher speeds.”

That high level of versatility is a big part of why the double-skinned mainsail got the job, but it also demands precise and coordinated skills of the sailing crew. Never before have sailors trimmed to speeds so fast and loads so vast, all in a foiling boat in which a sudden lapse in the breeze can go to splashdown, race over.

“I think the biggest learning curve is going to happen with how the boats and sails and crews work together and manage the process of sailing the boats faster,” JB said.
Isn't it all computers and ball bearings these days? Figure with AI/ML the boats would trim, optimize angles, predict wind changes, etc. Maybe restrictions during racing but like F1 or NASCAR where they rig them up during training and then let the teams work during the race per best process.
Oh no....its still all trimming by hand. Yes, they do have a lot of computers/electronics/hydraulics on board, but the guys on the crew are still doing the work.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Looks like the NZ are going to take this one. Up 6-3 in a first to 7. I find the process for setting up the next cup interesting. The moment the race ends the first challenger to get to the commandant for the defender (or something like that) is the challenger and gets to negotiate. So the defender is hidden away so they can pick who the challenger is. Crazy weird sportocracy.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:01 pm Looks like the NZ are going to take this one. Up 6-3 in a first to 7. I find the process for setting up the next cup interesting. The moment the race ends the first challenger to get to the commandant for the defender (or something like that) is the challenger and gets to negotiate. So the defender is hidden away so they can pick who the challenger is. Crazy weird sportocracy.
I haven't watched the racing from last night, but the previous night, Luna Rossa had the chance to tie things up, but then had an issue. The Kiwi's had come off the foils, and just sat in the water, and LR build up almost a 5 minute gap, but then they came off their foils after rounding the mark, and were completely screwed, and ended up losing the race by 4 minutes.
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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I caught up on the highlights...here's the Day 5 where LR just got screwed when they dropped off the foils with a huge lead (around 17:00):



And then here's Day 6. Probably the closest race of the series so far, but LR gave up the favored right hand side of the course on Leg 6, which allowed ETNZ to take the lead (around 19:00):

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Kiwis take it...

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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37th America's Cup challenge received and accepted
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/tea ... ricas-cup/
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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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Re: The WTF America's Cup Thread

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wlu_lax6 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:00 am Not America's cup but big boat
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/30/spor ... dinia.html
I know some folks who have done that regatta. All have said nothing but good things about the experience. My one friend was a navigator on one boat a few years ago, and he said that the coastal races were harrowing due to having to deal with all the rock outcroppings to deal with.
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