Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by mister d »

Put me on record Dem leadership would never impeach Pence, even if they had more evidence on him than they currently do on Trump.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by DaveInSeattle »

Ok...this story on the whole is batshit lunacy: Trump privately detailed the Soleimani airstrike to donors at Mar-a-Lago fundraiser

But this part really jumped out at me...
Instead, he spoke broadly about Soleimani as “the father of the road side bomb” responsible for “every young, beautiful man or woman who see walking around with no legs, no arms.”
Umm...walking around with no legs?????
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by Johnnie »

I was listening to Jimmy Dore on Joe Rogan and while he's a wild Lefty that calls out the left, he basically makes Trump sound like he'd be accepted by the Left but he's just vulgar and not as palatable.

He cannot reconcile the fact that the left will stand up and condemn him, but will blindly authorize another $131B in funds to fight wars. I get that. But then he's like "Oh, immigrants in cages at the border is an atrocity? Obama built those cages. The Russia thing was bullshit. And now you're going after him for going after Biden? He was fucking corrupt! His son gets an $83k a year job for some Ukrainian company? None of us can do that. So what the fuck?"

And it just makes me think that all my quiet anger with politics is just going to be a massive letdown come November.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by Joe K »

Johnnie wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:08 am I was listening to Jimmy Dore on Joe Rogan and while he's a wild Lefty that calls out the left, he basically makes Trump sound like he'd be accepted by the Left but he's just vulgar and not as palatable.

He cannot reconcile the fact that the left will stand up and condemn him, but will blindly authorize another $131B in funds to fight wars. I get that. But then he's like "Oh, immigrants in cages at the border is an atrocity? Obama built those cages. The Russia thing was bullshit. And now you're going after him for going after Biden? He was fucking corrupt! His son gets an $83k a year job for some Ukrainian company? None of us can do that. So what the fuck?"

And it just makes me think that all my quiet anger with politics is just going to be a massive letdown come November.
I unfollowed Dore on Twitter a while ago because I found him kind of annoying. On some level I get the critique he was making but the better argument isn’t that Obama/Biden were equivalent to Trump on issues like deportation or nepotism, because that’s not true. The issue is that Obama and many other Dems have been content to leave in place corrupt (or corruptible) programs that could be exploited by an amoral monster like Trump. One of the biggest mistakes Obama made was taking war crimes prosecutions/investigations of Bush officials off the table immediately. Once you establish that Executive officials have de facto immunity you open the door to all kinds of awfulness.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by Johnnie »

I was hoping you'd make heads or tails for me because I want to like the dude, but he's just so fucking annoying.

I simply couldn't equate Obama and Trump on a level like that. What you said makes sense to me though.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Johnnie wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 am I was hoping you'd make heads or tails for me because I want to like the dude, but he's just so fucking annoying.

I simply couldn't equate Obama and Trump on a level like that. What you said makes sense to me though.
All I know about Dore is hearing him twice on Rogan. I get the sense that he is just a contrarian, bordering on troll. I agreed with some of what he said, while finding him annoying. I think he was dead wrong on some of what he said, like the Russia investigation being a hoax. Mueller found crimes, but felt he, as a Special Counsel, didn't have the authority to indict a sitting President. Rogan gets this wrong all the time, too, and it drives me nuts.

Under Obama, kids were put in cages in very limited situations, when they crossed the border with adults who were criminals. It wasn't a strategy. Trump cruelly weaponized the idea of kids in cages to make it seem horrible for refugees to enter the US. Under Obama, the adult had to actually commit a crime in the US, under Trump the border crossing was the "crime." Illegally crossing the border isn't actually a crime, especially for refugees. The GOP rails against criminal "Illegals," saying they need to "follow the rules," but for a refugee, that is the rule! You cross the border and claim asylum. Then you get a hearing and either get admitted with refugee status, or your request gets denied and you are ordered to go back.

The Right bitches about the Left's hypocrisy over not having an issue with Obama keeping kids in cages, but the circumstances, purposes and volume are radically different. I've also seen a lot of arguments that the media never reported the cages until Trump was in office, which is mostly true, but it isn't a matter of bias against Trump, it was Trump creating a new policy that was extremely cruel, and intentionally cruel to try and prevent refugees from legally entering the US and seeking asylum.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by degenerasian »

This is where the definition of refugee crossing the border can be very vague.

A refugee cannot just cross the US border, that is indeed a crime. Refugees have to seek asylum and stay in the Mexican border town refugee camp that is already in place to house them, as dangerous as that is, and wait to receive the call to enter the US. By crossing the border, a refugee has in fact, jumped the line.

It is the same with Syrian refugees. Some Syrian refugees go to a refugee camp in Jordan or Lebanon. By spending extra money, another refugee gets on a boat to get to Greece or Turkey and then keep walking into Europe. They have in fact jumped the line knowing that the European countries won't return them. So the legal guy in Jordan is stuck.

Should the process to process asylum papers from the refugee camp be faster? Perhaps, depending on is the US even has an immigration policy and how many to allow in.

For example in Canada, we allow 300,000 immigrants per year. 1/4 investment (chinese), 1/2 sponsor (family or jobs), 1/4 refugee. I'm not sure the US has such a policy which is a problem. Canada has no border that people are crossing into so this process is easily streamlined.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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degenerasian wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:08 am A refugee cannot just cross the US border, that is indeed a crime. Refugees have to seek asylum and stay in the Mexican border town refugee camp that is already in place to house them, as dangerous as that is, and wait to receive the call to enter the US. By crossing the border, a refugee has in fact, jumped the line.
I've heard this multiple times, but it doesn't seem accurate. From Dept of Homeland Security
A refugee is a person outside his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her country of nationality because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. An asylee is a person who meets the definition of refugee and is already present in the United States or is seeking admission at a port of entry.
What you are talking about is detention of immigrants that have come to the border and requested asylum. They get detained until their status is determined. What many have an issue with is detaining children and others indefinitely. Call them illegals, criminals and job stealers. Toss in a shortage of judges. Then wrap it all up with an entire industry that can influence lawmakers and shift political ideals.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by degenerasian »

testuser2 wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:19 pm
degenerasian wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:08 am A refugee cannot just cross the US border, that is indeed a crime. Refugees have to seek asylum and stay in the Mexican border town refugee camp that is already in place to house them, as dangerous as that is, and wait to receive the call to enter the US. By crossing the border, a refugee has in fact, jumped the line.
I've heard this multiple times, but it doesn't seem accurate. From Dept of Homeland Security
A refugee is a person outside his or her country of nationality who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her country of nationality because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. An asylee is a person who meets the definition of refugee and is already present in the United States or is seeking admission at a port of entry.
What you are talking about is detention of immigrants that have come to the border and requested asylum. They get detained until their status is determined. What many have an issue with is detaining children and others indefinitely. Call them illegals, criminals and job stealers. Toss in a shortage of judges. Then wrap it all up with an entire industry that can influence lawmakers and shift political ideals.
Again, that's where it gets vague. If you're coming from a (shithole) country to the US, then yes.
But Mexico isn't a problem country where these people are fleeing from. I don't think there are Mexican asylum seekers unless it's a very special case.

I agree that the US system is not equipped for this and the GOP are twisting definitions to their benefit.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by The Sybian »

Wow, even for Kellyanne this is bad. First, acting(?) like she didn't know it was MLK Day, then spinning the message of MLK into saying he would have wanted to provide equal justice to Trump? The fucking balls on this one, oooohhh.


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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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The point to which Schumer will fight back being "shame on them, they'll have to live with what they did" sounds about right.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by L-Jam3 »

That'll teach 'em.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by tennbengal »

L-Jam3 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:16 pm That'll teach 'em.
For sure. They probably won't be able to sleep at night and what not.

I still don't know why Pelosi bowed to pressure to send the articles over. She should still be sitting on them.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by The Sybian »

Fuck, is nobody watching the impeachment trial? Work is kicking my ass this week, and I was hoping you guys could fill me in. Otherwise, I can follow the Fox and Friends advice: The trial is soooo boring, nobody is capable of understanding it. DON"T WATCH, just let us tell you what happened. Jesus fucking Christ. They aren't even hiding the gaslighting. Not to mention, just outright blatantly insulting their audience's intelligence. OTOH, if you are dumb enough to watch these fucking morons, you aren't smart enough to follow the trial.



https://www.mediamatters.org/trump-impe ... al-its-too

ETA: Couldn't get the video to embed, but I scrolled further and see this was an orchestrated strategy across Fox shows. God dammit it's infuriating. You watch clips from CNN or MSNBC, they are all gloating over how great the Dems did presenting their case and how Trump's lawyers spouted lies and bumbled like morons, but this just shows it doesn't fucking matter. Most RW media consumers won't see the actual trial, they will just see the clips of Trump's lawyers lying, without hearing that it's a lie, then they will have Hannity and Ingraham et al saying the Dems have no case, and they will believe it. I read that Fox's coverage had pundits talking over the feed of Dems presenting their case, so the audience couldn't even hear them.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by A_B »

I didn’t get to watch much today but the parts I did are basically trying to put a guilt trip on GOP senators. Which isn’t a terrible idea but probably won’t work. The only thing that matters is if they can flip four votes for the calling of witnessss later. Seems like Collins will flip. Need Romney and two more.
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Of course I could see manchin doing a flip too in the event it got close.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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They’re not playing to those senators they’re playing to the people voting in Arizona, Colorado, Maine, Tennessee, Texas et al. Which is smart. Trump isn’t getting removed. But the senators from those states might.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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A_B wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:51 pm Of course I could see manchin doing a flip too in the event it got close.
And if he does, we need to be here for him. You have no idea how hard it is to receive endless Democrat support in order to win elections and then every once in a while have to publicly hesitate before voting in line with Republicans.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by tennbengal »

I'm not watching because the fix is in, I guess.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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tennbengal wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:55 am I'm not watching because the fix is in, I guess.
Kinda what I'm thinking as well.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by Johnnie »

This thread just saddens me.

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How the fuck...shit, there is no bottom. This is jury tampering IN THE FUCKING US SENATE!
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Post by L-Jam3 »

Specifically for Johnnie, this is a good thing. I think everyone here is aware that he wasn't going to get a fair trial and the deck was stacked for Trump. This impeachment is a way, and if the Dems know what they are doing, to show the abject shittiness of the Republican party.

Remember the end goal here: 70K more voters in PA, MI, WI, and OH. Every time the Reps do something vile in this trial, like kowtow to Trump's demands or block witnesses, is another bullet in the chamber to show that Republican leadership is simply a bunch of pussies. That's what we hammer them on. We're not getting a conviction, and we're not going to change the mind of those Fox News worshippers. Fuck them. They're already in Jonestown. We need to focus on the message. This trial is the perfect way to have the Reps start playing defense.

We're going to have video evidence of Reps being bullies and cowards during the trial. That's ample video to place attack ads painting them as pussies. This is going to force them to start trying to deny it and play defense. Get them in front of a camera and ask them why they are scared to go against Trump. Why are they scared if they think Trump's going to follow through on his threat to (metaphorically) put their heads on pikes? If anything, this can cause infighting. Which is good. Divide and conquer.

Rolll those fucking ads constantly in the swing states. Hell, start rolling them in easy lean states. Could you imagine the defense they'd have to play say in Texas if they can get Cornyn on video being a pussy? Even if you can't flip Texas or unseat him, every GOP dollar that goes to fight ads in Texas pulls it away from Big Ten country. That's where we get them.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by DaveInSeattle »

tennbengal wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:55 am I'm not watching because the fix is in, I guess.
I've been catching highlights on line (Schiff was especially masterful yesterday), but I'm not watching mainly for my own self-preservation. Its going to do nothing but piss me off even more than I already am, and I'm trying to avoid that.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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A_B wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:56 am


How the fuck...shit, there is no bottom. This is jury tampering IN THE FUCKING US SENATE!
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That Sekulow rant on "lawyer lawsuits" was high comedy. These people are such clowns.
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Jerloma wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:46 pm That Sekulow rant on "lawyer lawsuits" was high comedy. These people are such clowns.
I missed that, but was he confusing FOIA lawsuit with lawyer lawsuits?

The best analysis I've heard (from several sources) is that there hasn't been a single defense of Trump that he wouldn't or didn't do what he was accused of. For all of the blatant lies and arguing completely inconsistent defenses Trump's team (including GOP Senate and pundits) get away with, nobody would get away with saying Trump didn't extort Zelensky, abuse power for personal political gain, subvert the will of Congress in violation of his authority... No, he undoubtedly did all of those things, but the REAL problem is that Joe Biden's son got a board position because of his name! Let's investigate THAT! What about Ivanka getting 30 Chinese patents approved days before Trump meets with Xi to negotiate a trade deal after getting rejected for years. Nope, nothing to see there.

It's funny to imagine Clinton's defense team attempting to bring in Bob Dole's daughter to grill her on how she got her college internship or something. These clowns are so fucking corrupt and pissing all over their offices and the Constitution for a fucking vile piece of shit most of them privately hate. What the fuck is wrong with these assholes? How do they live with themselves? Worst case scenario, you stand up to Trump, lose your reelection, and get a cushy gig on CNN. Just fucking get a spine!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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They're getting to pack the courts with judges nominated by a president appearing at the biggest March For Life event.
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Giff wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:08 pm They're getting to pack the courts with judges nominated by a president appearing at the biggest March For Life event.
Over/under on abortions Trump paid for or forced on women?
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The Sybian wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:09 pm
Giff wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:08 pm They're getting to pack the courts with judges nominated by a president appearing at the biggest March For Life event.
Over/under on abortions Trump paid for or forced on women?
I know. Out of all the bad faith arguments they've made over the years, for this person to be their hero.
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So, who is listening to Rudy Giuliani's podcast, live streaming during the trial? To provide an alternative to the fake allegations against Trump, Rudy is going to reveal the REAL scandal of the Biden family in Ukraine!

BTW, I love seeing what pops up in the Apple news feed on my phone. Impeachment trial from every outlet, and FoxNews lead story is about a guy who was caught kissing his side piece on the Kiss Cam at an exhibition soccer match in Peru. Six days ago. Hard hitting news! There was another day when a huge (well, should have been huge) scandal broke about Trump, and FoxNews' biggest story was about some woman's paternity test proves Hunter Biden is the father.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by DaveInSeattle »

The Sybian wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:54 pm
Jerloma wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:46 pm That Sekulow rant on "lawyer lawsuits" was high comedy. These people are such clowns.
These clowns are so fucking corrupt and pissing all over their offices and the Constitution for a fucking vile piece of shit most of them privately hate. What the fuck is wrong with these assholes? How do they live with themselves? Worst case scenario, you stand up to Trump, lose your reelection, and get a cushy gig on CNN. Just fucking get a spine!
This is what I can't get my head around. Mitt Romney has the spine of a jellyfish, but lets use him as an example*. He is NEVER going to lose his Senate seat (Mormon's are in love with him), and he clearly wants to run for President again in 2024. What doesn't he stand up and say 'Look, I support this President, and what he's done...what with the whackjob judges and throwing brown kids into cages and giving millionaires tax cuts...but he's gone to far, and he needs to go'. How does that hurt him? What is Trump going to do? Send a mean tweet about him? Will he lose the Trump supporters support? Maybe...but those slack-jawed yokels were never going to support him fully anyways (Cult followings are non-transferable).

Imagine finding yourself as one of 100 people in the country, sitting in the Senate Chambers, and willfully throwing away your good name and reputation in support of Donald Fucking Trump.

(*This example could also be used for Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz)
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Post by degenerasian »

Vanity over sanity. The Republic is broken.
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Post by DaveInSeattle »

And how are things going over at the State Department?

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We need more media people like her.
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Post by DaveInSeattle »

EdRomero wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:56 pm We need more media people like her.
Can Trump find Ukraine on a map? Highly doubt it.
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Post by A_B »

Ffs they used the star trek logo.
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Post by The Sybian »

Looks like Trump personally wrote Pompeo's response letter. Disgusting.


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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by L-Jam3 »

Of course Trump wrote it. There is absolutely no way Mary Louise Kelly, who in has a Masters in European Studies from fucking Cambridge, would point to Bangladesh and say it’s Ukraine. Of course those shitbag Trump would believe him.

Not counting countries he has properties in, how many countries do you think Trump can point out in a map with just outlines? I say 20. Maybe.
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