Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Okay . . . let's try this again.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Followed 20 minutes later by...

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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This is going to be a shitshow.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Bill Taylor is absolutely fucking Trump's shit up.

You really are going to have to eat a massive shit sandwich to defend Trump on this. Like I said before, these fucking morons wanted public hearings.. Here you go, assholes.

They're big thing is to get the whistleblower out in public. WHO THE FUCK CARES, YOU FUCKING MORONS. Everything that person said is being completely validated by REPUBLICAN appointed diplomats.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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They're only doing that because the whistleblower clearly doesn't want to go public. Its a "see, they're resisting" effort and if s/he does agree, they'll discredit them and move on to the next distraction/obstruction.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Fox News has a plan for that.

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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Objective, rational people don't watch Fox News.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:34 am Objective, rational people don't watch Fox News.
Yeah, but it still means we're going to be in the same quagmire post-impeachment.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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God it’s so nice when you can lead a witness.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:11 amYou really are going to have to eat a massive shit sandwich to defend Trump on this.
I think the only legitimate defense is to argue that all of this just isn’t serious enough to warrant the unprecedented remedy of removal.
And his one problem is he didn’t go to Russia that night because he had extracurricular activities, and they froze to death.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Steve of phpBB wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:09 pm God it’s so nice when you can lead a witness.
Right? I love one question where Taylor wasn't sure what the Counsel was asking, so he basically told Taylor the quote he was looking for.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.
How many objective people who follow any of this are still on the fence or support Trump? Not many. Almost nobody will actually see any of the testimony, and while Taylor is as good a witness as I could imagine, he isn't saying anything that will go viral or capture attention, so it won't have any impact outside of people watching the testimony or already onboard the Impeachment Train.

The GOP, Fox and the rest will just flatly say "Taylor exonerated Trump, proves Trump innocent" and that will stick with Trump's base, and it will be enough that no more than 3 or 4 GOP Senators will vote to convict. Facts and evidence are meaningless.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:16 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.
How many objective people who follow any of this are still on the fence or support Trump? Not many. Almost nobody will actually see any of the testimony, and while Taylor is as good a witness as I could imagine, he isn't saying anything that will go viral or capture attention, so it won't have any impact outside of people watching the testimony or already onboard the Impeachment Train.

The GOP, Fox and the rest will just flatly say "Taylor exonerated Trump, proves Trump innocent" and that will stick with Trump's base, and it will be enough that no more than 3 or 4 GOP Senators will vote to convict. Facts and evidence are meaningless.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:16 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:24 am It's just not effective in the face of hours of credible witnesses.

Again, this isn't Meuller report where they can come up with a defense or a dodge for this stuff.

This would be a COMPLETELY different ballgame if you only had whistleblowers that wouldn't come forward. We're gonna have half a dozen credible witnesses come out here on the grand stage and say the same thing.

Objective people are going to see right through their bullshit.
How many objective people who follow any of this are still on the fence or support Trump? Not many. Almost nobody will actually see any of the testimony, and while Taylor is as good a witness as I could imagine, he isn't saying anything that will go viral or capture attention, so it won't have any impact outside of people watching the testimony or already onboard the Impeachment Train.

The GOP, Fox and the rest will just flatly say "Taylor exonerated Trump, proves Trump innocent" and that will stick with Trump's base, and it will be enough that no more than 3 or 4 GOP Senators will vote to convict. Facts and evidence are meaningless.

Here's where I'm at, as always:

* - I don't give a fuck about Trump's base, neither should anyone on here. Way too much time is spent talking about that band of fucking morons. Lost cause of about 25-30 percent of the electorate.

* - As I've said repeatedly, this is all about continuing to hammer the REST of the electorate with FACTS that make it damn near impossible to defend, let alone vote for not just Trump, but anyone that is out front supporting him.

That's the whole point of this exercise. Get them on the record.

And whether you listen to Taylor or not, he laid out today that NOT supporting Ukraine is blatantly advancing the interests of one of our key adversaries (just call 'em an enemy at this point.) This is a young democracy asking for help against an oligarchy run by a fascist tyrant.

Whose fucking side are you on matters here. That point is getting lost.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Trump's base matters as long as they are (solely) driving the Republican politicians actions. Its like say "ignore the centrists" without acknowledging they're all the Dem leadership cares about.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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mister d wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:31 pm Trump's base matters as long as they are (solely) driving the Republican politicians actions. Its like say "ignore the centrists" without acknowledging they're all the Dem leadership cares about.
This. Personally, I don't give a fuck about his base, but as long as the GOP Senators do, that is all that matters. As long as they get reelected and backed by the Party for supporting Trump, they will continue to support Trump. If the base cracks, I'd bet more than half the GOP Senators would love to turn on Trump, and probably a dozen more would turn on Trump if they thought it would help them politically.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:36 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:31 pm Trump's base matters as long as they are (solely) driving the Republican politicians actions. Its like say "ignore the centrists" without acknowledging they're all the Dem leadership cares about.
This. Personally, I don't give a fuck about his base, but as long as the GOP Senators do, that is all that matters. As long as they get reelected and backed by the Party for supporting Trump, they will continue to support Trump. If the base cracks, I'd bet more than half the GOP Senators would love to turn on Trump, and probably a dozen more would turn on Trump if they thought it would help them politically.
I may have too much faith in my fellow Americans, but I hope they make it a sham trial and keep him in office so he can be voted out next year and the rest of them can live in history as ignoring the crisis we are in. I feel that removing him would allow Republicans to say "see, we got rid of such a monster, vote for us in 2020!" because I think that's the actual line where my brain will literally explode.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.
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Post by tennbengal »

Having a prosecutor asking the questions rather than five minutes per dem rep was the obvious and correct call. Glad they made the right call.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.
And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Is Nunes going to just talk the whole time and ask no questions?
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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A_B wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:46 pm Is Nunes going to just talk the whole time and ask no questions?
Ha. TV is on mute while this turd gaslights the country.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.
And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.
We can agree to disagree. This is very cut and dry - The president asked for a favor and held up important aid when he didn't get it. If you're too dumb to process that (voter, not you, obvi) then you were going to vote like a fucking moron regardless.

The suburbs of America is where Trump is going to lose this election. If you don't think there are persuadable people in those pockets, again, we're going to agree to disagree. These people are educated and don't hang out watching Hannity for shits and giggles. But they didn't like Hillary (and she didn't court them enough) and they voted for Trump in many parts of the country.

As I've said for 3 years now, Trump's approach isn't sustainable. He is destroying the Grand Ole Party.

That's the point I'm making... Trump's base can go fuck itself with a bowling ball. These hearings and putting more Republicans in Congress on the record is, again, the point of this exercise.

And I'm with Giff... I hope they vote to keep him in office. Serve them fucking right next November.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:54 pm
The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.
And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.
We can agree to disagree. This is very cut and dry - The president asked for a favor and held up important aid when he didn't get it. If you're too dumb to process that (voter, not you, obvi) then you were going to vote like a fucking moron regardless.

The suburbs of America is where Trump is going to lose this election. If you don't think there are persuadable people in those pockets, again, we're going to agree to disagree. These people are educated and don't hang out watching Hannity for shits and giggles. But they didn't like Hillary (and she didn't court them enough) and they voted for Trump in many parts of the country.

As I've said for 3 years now, Trump's approach isn't sustainable. He is destroying the Grand Ole Party.

That's the point I'm making... Trump's base can go fuck itself with a bowling ball. These hearings and putting more Republicans in Congress on the record is, again, the point of this exercise.

And I'm with Giff... I hope they vote to keep him in office. Serve them fucking right next November.
I hope you are right, I really do, but after the last 3 years, I have absolutely no faith in the voters, the system or anything. I mean, Trump went on national TV and admitted to the offenses. Then he stood in front of the Press Corp and asked China to investigate the Bidens to get a favorable trade deal. He committed the exact same offense at a press conference where he was supposed to say he didn't make a quid pro quo with Ukraine! And we have Romney sort of not backing Trump, a few Senators refusing to answer, and the majority of the GOP outright defending Trump! Fuck, we had House members storming the committee hearings! It's fucking insane!
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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I'm with Syb, but I'm at the height of my cynicism these days. I'm hoping though that this is the crest of the wave, so to speak as far as that goes.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by tennbengal »

It was the suburbs in northern Kentucky that cost Bevin the governor’s race - nonlinear is right - the bleeding in the suburbs gets worse with stuff like today. And it is already pretty bad for Republicans.
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tennbengal wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:08 pm It was the suburbs in northern Kentucky that cost Bevin the governor’s race - nonlinear is right - the bleeding in the suburbs gets worse with stuff like today. And it is already pretty bad for Republicans.
Yeah, maybe the best thing that happens is the GOP continue to keep all their eggs in Trump's basket, and America gets fed up and votes them out in huge numbers. Not that I trust they won't cheat and cry foul. The level of dishonest fuckery in the GOP is astounding. They make Newt Gingrich look like a straight arrow.
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The Republicans using these hearings to smear Biden and not refute the allegations is honestly the best case scenario for the Dems. Not sure how the GOP still doesn't get that.
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Post by A_B »

So now the tack appears to be "this isn't all that weird that all these randos were involved." "outlandish" seems to be the key word.
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brian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:17 pm The Republicans using these hearings to smear Biden and not refute the allegations is honestly the best case scenario for the Dems. Not sure how the GOP still doesn't get that.
Because the last time they turned a serious event into a referendum on a flawed legacy Dem it worked out pretty well?
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mister d wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:34 pm
brian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:17 pm The Republicans using these hearings to smear Biden and not refute the allegations is honestly the best case scenario for the Dems. Not sure how the GOP still doesn't get that.
Because the last time they turned a serious event into a referendum on a flawed legacy Dem it worked out pretty well?
No, I get that, but Biden isn't the nominee yet and preventing him from becoming the nominee probably helps the Dems.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

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The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:00 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:54 pm
The Sybian wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:45 pm
Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:40 pm BTW, there's new stuff coming out from today, so this will get "main stream" coverage.

The biggest thing is a phone call Sondland took from Trump that hadn't been revealed before.

Also, Taylor said that people were going to die due to the aid being held up. That's going to get a lot of coverage.
And people who read and think will get that info, and they are already sold on impeachment. I didn't see anything that would be a persuasive 1 minute clip people will pass along on Facebook. I hate that this is what our society has become, but a distinguished ambassador speaking in a very calm manner, taking an hour to lay out a very clear case doesn't move the needle. Many more people will see Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz railing about Shifty Schiff pissing on the Constitution by having the audacity to act as a check on Presidential corruption, and that will be much more persuasive to to people who need persuading.
We can agree to disagree. This is very cut and dry - The president asked for a favor and held up important aid when he didn't get it. If you're too dumb to process that (voter, not you, obvi) then you were going to vote like a fucking moron regardless.

The suburbs of America is where Trump is going to lose this election. If you don't think there are persuadable people in those pockets, again, we're going to agree to disagree. These people are educated and don't hang out watching Hannity for shits and giggles. But they didn't like Hillary (and she didn't court them enough) and they voted for Trump in many parts of the country.

As I've said for 3 years now, Trump's approach isn't sustainable. He is destroying the Grand Ole Party.

That's the point I'm making... Trump's base can go fuck itself with a bowling ball. These hearings and putting more Republicans in Congress on the record is, again, the point of this exercise.

And I'm with Giff... I hope they vote to keep him in office. Serve them fucking right next November.
I hope you are right, I really do, but after the last 3 years, I have absolutely no faith in the voters, the system or anything. I mean, Trump went on national TV and admitted to the offenses. Then he stood in front of the Press Corp and asked China to investigate the Bidens to get a favorable trade deal. He committed the exact same offense at a press conference where he was supposed to say he didn't make a quid pro quo with Ukraine! And we have Romney sort of not backing Trump, a few Senators refusing to answer, and the majority of the GOP outright defending Trump! Fuck, we had House members storming the committee hearings! It's fucking insane!

2018 - Historic Blue Wave, massive losses for GOP/gains for Dems.
2019 - Flip the VA House and Senate, take KY governor, extremely troubling losses in suburbs in battleground states.

What Trump and the GOP are doing is killing their party. Stuff like this doesn't USUALLY happen in one presidential cycle, but these idiots are flamethrowing their own party.

The beat down next November is going to be epic. I'm looking at voting RESULTS and polling trends in battleground states (and elsewhere) and this is pushing into historically bad for the GOP. I'm not an expert, just a schlub on a message board, but I've been a lot more correct than any of the doom and gloom stuff on here.
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All that said, there's a special cot in Hell for Jim Jordan.

What a cunt.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by P.D.X. »

Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:48 pm All that said, there's a special cot in Hell for Jim Jordan.

What a cunt.
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I think Dems take TX and GA in Nov. 2020 - and it won't matter what Michigan, WIsconsin and PA do at that point...
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by Nonlinear FC »

The other line of defense they are leaning on is that Zelensky didn't say publicly that there was any pressure being exerted, so of course there was never any pressure being exerted.

I really hope they go after this bullshit. Guess what you don't do when you're being pressured to do something? Publicly bitch about being pressured to do something.

God, it's like watching a bunch of monkeys figure out how to fling poo for the first time. It would be entertaining if you weren't, also, getting hit with poo while watching.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by BSF21 »

Nonlinear FC wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:48 pm All that said, there's a special cot in Hell for Jim Jordan.

What a cunt.
The "district" he represents has been Republican since the 1930s. He's a flaming pile of shit.
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Re: Trump Admin Meltdown Thread Part IV - Welcome to Stupid Watergate

Post by brian »

Love these GOP idiots going after Obama. He's definitely not gonna win a third term now.
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