Death to the NCAA

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Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:56 am

I stole Deadspin's tag, and since this spans sports, new thread!

Anyway, Coach K is in on letting kids get paid for names and images licensing. I anticipate NC will have a bill passed by end of week.

Wonder how Lord Emmert is going to feel about likely his most recognizable name standding on the other side of the issue?
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by brian » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:02 am

A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:56 am
I stole Deadspin's tag, and since this spans sports, new thread!

Anyway, Coach K is in on letting kids get paid for names and images licensing. I anticipate NC will have a bill passed by end of week.

Wonder how Lord Emmert is going to feel about likely his most recognizable name standding on the other side of the issue?
Self-interest more than anything or else he was going to lose every elite recruit to a school in California, but better late than never.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:08 am

Absolutely, and Coach Cal has said some things about this before as well, but Coach K is generally unassailable in the NCAA's eyes, so this really puts them in a weird spot.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by L-Jam3 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:14 am

Mark Few, who apparently coaches Gonzaga pro bono, is not pleased with Gavin Newsom's grandstanding.










Oh wait. Mark Few is paid? How much? More than $1.7 million a year? Your thoughts, DiS?
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Rex » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:16 am

This is kind of like Walter Cronkite on Vietnam. I don't think Coach K is being ideological at all, he's a realist. And I think he's figured out over the last couple of years who is ultimately going to win on this issue and his comments have gradually moved towards what he's saying today.

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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by mister d » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:18 am

Every coach that relies on one-and-dones, the only kids who will really be profiting here, is going to have to lobby this side or end up fucked.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:19 am

Rex wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:16 am
This is kind of like Walter Cronkite on Vietnam. I don't think Coach K is being ideological at all, he's a realist. And I think he's figured out over the last couple of years who is ultimately going to win on this issue and his comments have gradually moved towards what he's saying today.
YES! That's the point that Jay Bilas has been making for a while. Just move on it, do something proactive for once. Don't stick your head in the sand and play the litigation game.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by mister d » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:20 am

(I should say "only kids who will be profiting" at first. I imagine the new norm would be 3 star recruits getting local car dealership ad spots to commit and other kinda funny and ultimately positive things like that.)
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:21 am

mister d wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:18 am
Every coach that relies on one-and-dones, the only kids who will really be profiting here, is going to have to lobby this side or end up fucked.
You see, I don't think this will be the case at all. I think there will be a case for a lot of kids to be able to make a little bit of money doing ads for their hometown car dealer or sports shop or what have you. In my high school, we had one guy who went to UK to play football. He was a local celebrity, everyone knew who he was, and I'd guarantee you he'd be at the car lot signing autographs and on a billboard.

Now, he flamed out because he couldn't hack the academics, but I'm just saying I think there will be more opportunities than for just the top guys. Not national deals by any means, but regional ads are totally in play.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 am

mister d wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:20 am
(I should say "only kids who will be profiting" at first. I imagine the new norm would be 3 star recruits getting local car dealership ad spots to commit and other kinda funny and ultimately positive things like that.)
YUP!
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by brian » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:22 am

mister d wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:20 am
(I should say "only kids who will be profiting" at first. I imagine the new norm would be 3 star recruits getting local car dealership ad spots to commit and other kinda funny and ultimately positive things like that.)
Oh, the sponsorship stuff at the MAC and Sun Belt level is gonna be the really awesome shit. I'm so ready for that. Can you imagine Antonio Brown shilling for the local Buffalo Wild Wings in Mount Pleasant in 2009?
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:23 am

I'm thinking Fun ads a la the Spurs HEB series would be pretty popular.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am

Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am
Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
From the stuff I have read, it's not a Title IX issue because the colleges aren't going to be the ones paying anyone. It's just that the kids will have the chance to earn money from outside entities through licensing their name and likeness or signing autographs for a fee. So the schools with legit stars in other sports ( a lot of them Olympic in nature) will be able to profit as well.

Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by sancarlos » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:52 am

Have you noticed a straw man in many of the arguments against the California law? People rail long and loud that you shouldn't pay players. But, as noted above, the law doesn't allow for paying players. It allows for letting kids get paid for names and images licensing, which is of course, different.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:57 am

A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am
Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
From the stuff I have read, it's not a Title IX issue because the colleges aren't going to be the ones paying anyone. It's just that the kids will have the chance to earn money from outside entities through licensing their name and likeness or signing autographs for a fee. So the schools with legit stars in other sports ( a lot of them Olympic in nature) will be able to profit as well.

Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.

Again, I am coming from a place of "Fuck yeah, they should get compensated." But, there's got to be SOME oversight here, or shit will go sideways very quickly.

You've got the prospect of a college player being on a billboard promoting a casino and/or a strip club, for example. You've got some kid getting $25k for an autograph signing at a car dealership owned by a booster. Etc etc and so on.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by brian » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:00 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:57 am
A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am
Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
From the stuff I have read, it's not a Title IX issue because the colleges aren't going to be the ones paying anyone. It's just that the kids will have the chance to earn money from outside entities through licensing their name and likeness or signing autographs for a fee. So the schools with legit stars in other sports ( a lot of them Olympic in nature) will be able to profit as well.

Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.

Again, I am coming from a place of "Fuck yeah, they should get compensated." But, there's got to be SOME oversight here, or shit will go sideways very quickly.

You've got the prospect of a college player being on a billboard promoting a casino and/or a strip club, for example. You've got some kid getting $25k for an autograph signing at a car dealership owned by a booster. Etc etc and so on.
They're getting that now, but at least now they'll have to sign the autographs to get it.

ETA: As well as a contract, maybe more importantly. There's going to be a paper trail now to differentiate between players getting cash for something and players getting cash for nothing.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by mister d » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:41 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:57 am
Again, I am coming from a place of "Fuck yeah, they should get compensated." But, there's got to be SOME oversight here, or shit will go sideways very quickly.

You've got the prospect of a college player being on a billboard promoting a casino and/or a strip club, for example. You've got some kid getting $25k for an autograph signing at a car dealership owned by a booster. Etc etc and so on.
I'm not seeing the sideways here.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by GoodKarma » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:49 am

A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am
Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
From the stuff I have read, it's not a Title IX issue because the colleges aren't going to be the ones paying anyone. It's just that the kids will have the chance to earn money from outside entities through licensing their name and likeness or signing autographs for a fee. So the schools with legit stars in other sports ( a lot of them Olympic in nature) will be able to profit as well.

Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.
I just wonder how it will apply to schools selling shirts or jerseys with a specific player number on it (I can't think of a time I've seen a school sell a jersey with a name on it). So if USC sells a jersey with #18 on it can JT Daniels lay claim to a cut of profits?
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:52 am

mister d wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:41 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:57 am
Again, I am coming from a place of "Fuck yeah, they should get compensated." But, there's got to be SOME oversight here, or shit will go sideways very quickly.

You've got the prospect of a college player being on a billboard promoting a casino and/or a strip club, for example. You've got some kid getting $25k for an autograph signing at a car dealership owned by a booster. Etc etc and so on.
I'm not seeing the sideways here.
Not really sure what else to say. Universities are stuffy, extremely conservative entities. It's one thing to say "pay the players for their name and likeness," it's a completely different animal when those names and likenesses are used to promote, say a bar where that player (and his college compatriots) aren't legally allowed to frequent.

I, personally, don't give a shit. But I'm also not the president of UCLA or whatever.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:53 am

GoodKarma wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:49 am
A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am
Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
From the stuff I have read, it's not a Title IX issue because the colleges aren't going to be the ones paying anyone. It's just that the kids will have the chance to earn money from outside entities through licensing their name and likeness or signing autographs for a fee. So the schools with legit stars in other sports ( a lot of them Olympic in nature) will be able to profit as well.

Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.
I just wonder how it will apply to schools selling shirts or jerseys with a specific player number on it (I can't think of a time I've seen a school sell a jersey with a name on it). So if USC sells a jersey with #18 on it can JT Daniels lay claim to a cut of profits?
That to me is one of the trickiest parts of it all, IMO. I remember when Tim Couch was at UK, there were #2 jerseys all over, but of course they didn't have the name Couch on them. A co-worker wanted to get a personalized jersey of a guy who shared her last name, but the system wouldn't let you use current player names on the jersey even though you could get the numbers of the player. A personalized had to be not a current player's name.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Rush2112 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:55 am

A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am
Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.
I just saw a kid with a CU Basketball shirt with a slick nickname most likely sold at the bookstore, so it's not just for universities with relevant sports teams!
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Shirley » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:06 pm

A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:56 am
Anyway, Coach K is in on letting kids get paid for names and images licensing. I anticipate NC will have a bill passed by end of week.
Coach K may not have the sway in NC government that you think. Not a lot of Dukies in state office. But, I expect Ol' Roy will join in before long and that will have a lot of impact. Plus, I'm sure there are a hell of a lot of local businesses who'd love to start using local athletes in their ads.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by GoodKarma » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:12 pm

A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:53 am
GoodKarma wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:49 am
A_B wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:45 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:43 am
Anyone familiar with the CA legislation? Does it provide an actual framework to carry this off, or just open it up as a possibility. I've been all for paying the players for a looooong time, but it really gets bogged down in the details.

Are there going to be Title IX issues? What type of money are we talking here (is there a cap of some sort?) What type of review process is in place -- IOW, who regulates what type of usage is going to be in place?
From the stuff I have read, it's not a Title IX issue because the colleges aren't going to be the ones paying anyone. It's just that the kids will have the chance to earn money from outside entities through licensing their name and likeness or signing autographs for a fee. So the schools with legit stars in other sports ( a lot of them Olympic in nature) will be able to profit as well.

Here at UK, there's been a dirty little industry spearheaded by the Late Jared Lorenzen that makes T-shirts that are obviously related to a player at the school (SNell Yeah, Fear the Brow, I'm a Bucket) but which the kids they are alluding to get nothing from. Now they can monetize that.
I just wonder how it will apply to schools selling shirts or jerseys with a specific player number on it (I can't think of a time I've seen a school sell a jersey with a name on it). So if USC sells a jersey with #18 on it can JT Daniels lay claim to a cut of profits?
That to me is one of the trickiest parts of it all, IMO. I remember when Tim Couch was at UK, there were #2 jerseys all over, but of course they didn't have the name Couch on them. A co-worker wanted to get a personalized jersey of a guy who shared her last name, but the system wouldn't let you use current player names on the jersey even though you could get the numbers of the player. A personalized had to be not a current player's name.
I'm sure the intent is for a kid not to profit from that but I can make a legal argument that a jersey number should be considered a likeness...I can easily see a kid pushing this issue.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by A_B » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:13 pm

Yeah I don't really follow NC state politics, just figured if Coach K is on board then the rest of the coaches will probably fall in line.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Nonlinear FC » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:17 pm

I think a university selling a jersey number and not paying a player would get shot down by the AD (via whatever head coach is involved.)

Think about the optics and internal politics of doing that.

I mean, they could TRY to pull that off, but as you guys are saying it will immediately be challenged and the PR on that is going to HAMMER that school to death.
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by HaulCitgo » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:17 pm

mister d wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:41 am
Nonlinear FC wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:57 am
Again, I am coming from a place of "Fuck yeah, they should get compensated." But, there's got to be SOME oversight here, or shit will go sideways very quickly.

You've got the prospect of a college player being on a billboard promoting a casino and/or a strip club, for example. You've got some kid getting $25k for an autograph signing at a car dealership owned by a booster. Etc etc and so on.
I'm not seeing the sideways here.
I want in. Very definitely a back door to funnel cash to recruits but that's ok. Low teens of real endorsement deal cash. The rest will be boosters paying to bring in freshmen. Thinking it might be better to swindle the rest of the kids versus trying to get in on the back door. For only $3500 I will peddle your bench sitting can't cover a lick ass to lawyers selling car wrecks around Atlanta?

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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by Pruitt » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:02 pm

Funny joke on "Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me" this week relating to this issue.

"Get ready for your 2023 national champion - the Bakersfield School of Cosmetology."
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Re: Death to the NCAA

Post by DSafetyGuy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:00 pm

Rex wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:16 am
This is kind of like Walter Cronkite on Vietnam. I don't think Coach K is being ideological at all, he's a realist. And I think he's figured out over the last couple of years who is ultimately going to win on this issue and his comments have gradually moved towards what he's saying today.
As evidenced by his 180 on one-and-dones.

Not backing this is going to put you at a competitive disadvantage, so everyone's going to start falling line right quick.
Stick this in your trophy case.

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