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Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pm
by Rush2112
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:21 pm He's in year 5 and you can't reasonably say "this guy definitely won't end up the best ever" so I think pretty solid. He's incredible on a shit franchise.
I wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:10 pm
by DaveInSeattle
Joe K wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:13 pm

Cross Brees off the list.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pm
by DaveInSeattle
As always...Don't Read The Comments!

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:15 pm
by Pruitt
DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pm
As always...Don't Read The Comments!
Why'd you do that?

Now I hate people.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:15 pm
by A_B
DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pm
As always...Don't Read The Comments!

"Thomas is going to see his throws cut way down." Yeah, let's see how that works out for them.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:12 pm
by DSafetyGuy


Dude pushes the pocket back into all the QBs.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:34 pm
by duff
A_B wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:15 pm
DaveInSeattle wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:12 pm
As always...Don't Read The Comments!

"Thomas is going to see his throws cut way down." Yeah, let's see how that works out for them.
Typical Purdue education on display.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pm
by sancarlos
Rush2112 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:21 pm He's in year 5 and you can't reasonably say "this guy definitely won't end up the best ever" so I think pretty solid. He's incredible on a shit franchise.
I wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
You have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.

In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:30 pm
by brian
I'll be WAY more impressed if he takes a knee, but I have to give credit where due.


Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:41 pm
by Johnnie
LeBron chewed his ass too.



Some white people just don't get it.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:49 pm
by mister d
sancarlos wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pmYou have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.
I don’t think his dominance is forgotten, but maybe questioned just a little. I guess from both sides ...
(1) Do you think Gretzky as a 2000 rookie would be routinely putting up 150+ point seasons in a league where the 120 mark has been crossed only five times in two decades?
(2) Check out these contemporaries, both from a quality of competition standpoint and a “this guy scored 100 points / who is this guy who scored 100 points???” standpoint.
(Would have made a good swampcrash question if 19 year old Lemieux had one less.)

THEREFORE ... is it fair to question of there’s a little Babe Ruth in the stats? Undeniable greatest of his era and all-time in terms of relative to competition, but fair to question if the competition did some of that work?

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:04 pm
by A_B
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:49 pm
sancarlos wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pmYou have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.
I don’t think his dominance is forgotten, but maybe questioned just a little. I guess from both sides ...
(1) Do you think Gretzky as a 2000 rookie would be routinely putting up 150+ point seasons in a league where the 120 mark has been crossed only five times in two decades?
(2) Check out these contemporaries, both from a quality of competition standpoint and a “this guy scored 100 points / who is this guy who scored 100 points???” standpoint.
(Would have made a good swampcrash question if 19 year old Lemieux had one less.)

THEREFORE ... is it fair to question of there’s a little Babe Ruth in the stats? Undeniable greatest of his era and all-time in terms of relative to competition, but fair to question if the competition did some of that work?

Yeah. Gretzky didn’t have to play against black players. Good point.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:37 pm
by brian
His goalie was black so it was doubly unfair.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:40 pm
by mister d
Accidentally made a great point AB ... check when Eastern Europe really started seeing their best players hit the NHL.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:24 pm
by A_B
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:40 pm Accidentally made a great point AB ... check when Eastern Europe really started seeing their best players hit the NHL.
All my points are great whether they are great or not.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:54 pm
by Pruitt
sancarlos wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pm
Rush2112 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:21 pm He's in year 5 and you can't reasonably say "this guy definitely won't end up the best ever" so I think pretty solid. He's incredible on a shit franchise.
I wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
You have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.

In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
Jordan was never as dominant as Gretzky was. Maybe only Babe Ruth ever was.

And while the Oilers were a great team,there were a lot of wingers who played with Gretzky who disappeared once they left Edmonton.

Now, as a Leafs fan way back when, I can say that there's no possible way he'd have scored 212 points in a season in with the shitty Toronto teams of that era. But there's no way he'd have ever scored less than 140 points. He was simply that much better than everyone else.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:07 pm
by Joe K
I don’t know nearly enough about hockey to compare Gretzky to modern guys like Crosby or Ovechkin. However, the best sports example I can think of for “untouchable stats due to his era but not the best ever” is Wilt Chamberlain. No one will ever average 50 ppg again or touch his rebounding stats, but virtually every smart basketball historian says Kareem was better. Shaq and Hakeem were likely also better centers (Anthony Davis too if you consider him a center).

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:19 am
by sancarlos
Joe K wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:07 pm I don’t know nearly enough about hockey to compare Gretzky to modern guys like Crosby or Ovechkin. However, the best sports example I can think of for “untouchable stats due to his era but not the best ever” is Wilt Chamberlain. No one will ever average 50 ppg again or touch his rebounding stats, but virtually every smart basketball historian says Kareem was better. Shaq and Hakeem were likely also better centers (Anthony Davis too if you consider him a center).
It’s tough to compare players from different eras. Tough to factor in defense, too. But, the huge degree by which Gretzky’s offensive statistics surpassed his peers every year, for eight consecutive years is mind-boggling.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 am
by mister d
Whoa sounds racist.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:44 am
by Rush2112
sancarlos wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pm
Rush2112 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:21 pm He's in year 5 and you can't reasonably say "this guy definitely won't end up the best ever" so I think pretty solid. He's incredible on a shit franchise.
I wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
You have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.

In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
Oh, I know how dominant he was. I am not arguing that at all. He's probably leading the league in those same categories if he played for Toronto, but he would've had a shitload of points, but would he have had 150+ assists if he had been passing to Greg Terrion instead of Jarri Curri? (yes I know Mike Krushelnyski scored almost 17% of his goals his first year with Gretzky.)

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:48 am
by Rush2112
Another related topic, those Oilers teams were amazing, but they were by far the best team in the league. The closest competition (especially later in the decade) was Calgary and they had the formula to beat the Flames for the most part..until the Oilers started to fall apart and the Flames hit their stride.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:35 am
by Johnnie

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:26 am
by Johnnie
This thread. Oh man.


Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:25 am
by EdRomero
Martellus went off too. Don't know if the thread I linked got it all.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:09 am
by Johnnie
Ooooh! Damn. That was outstanding.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:11 am
by rass

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:41 am
by brian
I gotta tell you guys. I've had more fun in the last two days with most of America turning on the racists than I've had in years.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:03 am
by Nonlinear FC
brian wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 1:20 am
Joe K wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 11:00 pm
mister d wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 10:08 pm Well right, and also him being firmly aligned on the other side. Most powerful QB that could do this would be ... I just googled starting QBs and I have no idea. They’re all either not white or white and mostly bland as shit relative to talent level. There’s no “whoa fuck Mike Trout / Connor McDavid said what???” level potential name.
Unless I’m missing your point, isn’t Aaron Rodgers the clear answer?
Sure. So would someone even like Matthew Stafford, but they're both MAGA turds.
Sorry, I'm very late to this thread... Didn't Rodgers sign a petition to recall Scott Walker? I know he's a devout Christian, I'm not so sure he's a MAGA turd.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:20 am
by DSafetyGuy
Aaron maybe ain't all the way there...


Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:21 am
by DSafetyGuy
EdRomero wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:25 am Martellus went off too. Don't know if the thread I linked got it all.
That thread has it all there. Obviously, he's posting a lot more than just that, but that thread is phenomenal.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:23 am
by Nonlinear FC
EdRomero wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:25 am Martellus went off too. Don't know if the thread I linked got it all.
The nfl is racist. The main reason they don’t have black coaches is because of racism not because they aren’t “qualified”. You already know how the white owners who hire coaches feel about black players. It’s the same way they feel about black coaches.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:21 pm
by Gunpowder
Pruitt wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:54 pm
sancarlos wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 pm
Rush2112 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 pm
mister d wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:21 pm He's in year 5 and you can't reasonably say "this guy definitely won't end up the best ever" so I think pretty solid. He's incredible on a shit franchise.
I wonder if Gretzky would be as GOAT if he wasn't on the Oilers back in their heyday but rather had gone to some moribund franchise. Glen Sather had an amazing team built in Edmonton. If the current FO had 70% of his success with all the super high picks as Sather had with picks in the 40s (Messier) they'd be hanging hell of a lot more banners in the rafters.
You have to be kidding. I guess people forget how singularly dominant was Gretzky.

In 1986-87 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1985-86 he led the scoring race, with 74 more points than the second place guy. 77 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1984-85 he led the scoring race, with 73 more points than the second place guy. 73 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1983-84 he led the scoring race, with 79 more points than the second place guy. 79 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1982-83 he led the scoring race, with 72 more points than the second place guy. 90 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1981-82 he led the scoring race, with 65 more points than the second place guy. 107 points more than the next highest Oiler.
In 1980-81 he led the scoring race, with 29 more points than the second place guy. 89 points more than the next highest Oiler.
Jordan was never as dominant as Gretzky was. Maybe only Babe Ruth ever was.

And while the Oilers were a great team,there were a lot of wingers who played with Gretzky who disappeared once they left Edmonton.

Now, as a Leafs fan way back when, I can say that there's no possible way he'd have scored 212 points in a season in with the shitty Toronto teams of that era. But there's no way he'd have ever scored less than 140 points. He was simply that much better than everyone else.
Antonio Brown was never nearly as dominant as Don Hutson. No QB was as dominant as Dan Marino. There is a point in there.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:07 pm
by brian
Pretty sweet "I Think You Should Leave" reference here.


Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:00 pm
by rass
Yeah... but that wasn’t a bad statement. Doesn’t matter unless games start in the fall and the pres goes all SOB again and RG maintains this, but it wasn’t really wishy washy.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:10 pm
by brian
It was a great statement but let’s see what happens when an entire team takes a knee during week 1 and all the conservatives starting flipping out and Trump melts down.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:17 pm
by mister d
Not watching, but unless there’s a direct apology to Kaepernick et all and an admission that policing their silent protest was a horrible mistake, it’s a bad statement.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:48 pm
by sancarlos
He’s never going to admit that they blackballed Kaepernick.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:51 pm
by The Sybian
Rush2112 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:16 pm
The Sybian wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 8:22 am I think Bapo! thought he was going to be the greatest player ever when he was drafted. How'd that turn out?
Don't you dare sully the great name of McDavid!
That was a legit question. I see the thread pop up every now and then, and I was wondering if the guy panned out.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:03 pm
by Joe K
The Sybian wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:51 pm
Rush2112 wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:16 pm
The Sybian wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 8:22 am I think Bapo! thought he was going to be the greatest player ever when he was drafted. How'd that turn out?
Don't you dare sully the great name of McDavid!
That was a legit question. I see the thread pop up every now and then, and I was wondering if the guy panned out.
League MVP (with two other top-5 finishes), two seasons voted best player in the league by other NHL players, and two seasons leading the league in scoring -- all before turning 23 years old.


What I'm tying to say is, the jury's still out on if he panned out.

Re: NFL Off-season 2020

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:06 pm
by A_B
Again I don’t follow hockey but he is one of the few players I know. That’s biased by the swamp but he’s not a bust by any stretch.