The Swamp

Needed to happen. Assuming Cora gets a similar punishment (and the Red Sox similar team penalties) if MLB can show it was an organizational effort to cheat like this was.

Which teams will be paying the Astros' $5 million fine?

There has to be a chance that Cora gets more than Hinch/Luhnow if he took it from one franchise to the next, right?

Yeah, all the people I saw online defending this stuff and saying the video posted wasn't proof... Or, my favorite, saying that even if it was true, it wasn't providing that big of an advantage (!?) or along those lines everyone tries to get an edge, so this was all just part of that. That second one is infuriating because the stuff the Astros did is EXPLICITLY stated as against the MLB rules. It's not some unwritten code thing.

Stealing signs as a runner on second? Totally fine. That's on the battery for being too obvious. Figuring out a pitchers tell by his hand placement or his pre-wind up routine or whatever... Totally fine.

Using video surveillance? C'mon man.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:09 pm There has to be a chance that Cora gets more than Hinch/Luhnow if he took it from one franchise to the next, right?

You can argue that this is worse than what Pete Rose did to get a lifetime ban. I would accept arguments on either side, but I don't think that's a hot take (goes for Hinch/Luhnow as well BTW).

brian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:11 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:09 pm There has to be a chance that Cora gets more than Hinch/Luhnow if he took it from one franchise to the next, right?

You can argue that this is worse than what Pete Rose did to get a lifetime ban. I would accept arguments on either side, but I don't think that's a hot take (goes for Hinch/Luhnow as well BTW).

The circumstantial evidence that both teams that did this WON THE WORLD SERIES makes me think it's worse than Pete Rose being a dumbfuck.

I hadn't read everything. I think there's a really good chance Cora gets life here.

Sorry, I fell asleep with 8 minutes left in the second quarter of the game yesterday and just woke up. I'm sure everything's great in H-Town, right?

Baylor is ranked #2!

I'm sure there's a player whose death will be covered up by Drew any day now.

Missing Deadspin right now

Beltran obviously brought this from the Yankees. I'm sure this isn't over!

With tech and video and TV today, wouldn't it be easier to just open it up on both sides. Allow the pitcher and catcher to have mics and earpieces (encrypted communication with little orange dots on the helmets). Let everyone and their brother take video and go for it.

And now...they are fired. Astros ownership moved quickly there.

From reading the tea leaves, sounds like Cora is gonna get at least a two year ban, which essentially means the Red Sox might as well fire him (though they'll wait for MLB punishment at which time they can fire him for cause and not have to pay him).

I'll take the over. It looks like Hinch and Luhnow got institutional control; Cora was the key/only "management" piece of the video and that's just the Houston stuff.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:10 pm
Stealing signs as a runner on second? Totally fine. That's on the battery for being too obvious. Figuring out a pitchers tell by his hand placement or his pre-wind up routine or whatever... Totally fine.

Using video surveillance? C'mon man.

Also, I fall exactly in the camp. Signs are a dumb concept anyway but if you want to tip pitches on second base, that's competitive edge. Videotaping is a whole different animal.

Or just go full football and have the catcher bark out the play.

OMAHA!

I don't follow baseball, so this is the first I've really read about this.

so Wow!

So basically the Astros have more than made up for the $5 million fine by not having to pay their GM or manager or their first and second round picks the next 2 years.

Rex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:00 pm So basically the Astros have more than made up for the $5 million fine by not having to pay their GM or manager or their first and second round picks the next 2 years.

One presumes they will hire a Manager and GM this season, but the bonus money saved might prove you correct.

A_B wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:07 pm

Rex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:00 pm So basically the Astros have more than made up for the $5 million fine by not having to pay their GM or manager or their first and second round picks the next 2 years.

One presumes they will hire a Manager and GM this season, but the bonus money saved might prove you correct.

Going without a GM worked so well for the Texans, the Astros are going to go GM and manager-less in 2020!

Agree on the GM, but the Astros ought to try going without a manager. The time has come for that

degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:48 pm Or just go full football and have the catcher bark out the play.

OMAHA!

It's yellow weasel now.

Rex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm Agree on the GM, but the Astros ought to try going without a manager. The time has come for that

I can't tell if this is legit or not. I'm honestly wondering how that would work. Obviously baseball is a bit different from a "calling plays" type of deal but who is going to make calls to the pen or work a PH/PR situation? You gotta have a guy who has the final call on those things. If you didn't you'd have every starting pitcher refusing to leave the mound when they're getting shelled.

Unless you were kidding about it and then ignore me.

BSF21 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:46 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:10 pm
Stealing signs as a runner on second? Totally fine. That's on the battery for being too obvious. Figuring out a pitchers tell by his hand placement or his pre-wind up routine or whatever... Totally fine.

Using video surveillance? C'mon man.

Also, I fall exactly in the camp. Signs are a dumb concept anyway but if you want to tip pitches on second base, that's competitive edge. Videotaping is a whole different animal.

But is it okay to watch video of all the previous games and start learning the signs? Or have a bullpen guy with binoculars? And players are allowed to go and see video of previous at bats during a game. Fighting tech is the wrong idea.

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:27 pmBut is it okay to watch video of all the previous games and start learning the signs? Or have a bullpen guy with binoculars? And players are allowed to go and see video of previous at bats during a game.

In order, yes, no, yes.

We definitely cheated, i feel like a lot of people do it but its our time to get caught. it sucks to lose staff and draft picks but i'm glad the owner reacted as quickly as he did. Ugly situation, but i'm just gonna look at the world series win and ignore the rest.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:41 pm

wlu_lax6 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:27 pmBut is it okay to watch video of all the previous games and start learning the signs? Or have a bullpen guy with binoculars? And players are allowed to go and see video of previous at bats during a game.

In order, yes, no, yes.

Yeah, the bottom line is that doing anything mid-game that relies on anything other than the naked eye (or whatever other senses come into play) is wrong. Period.

If the bullpen is able to see the battery doing something that tips their pitches, I have no problem phoning that into the bench. Using binocs is bullshit.

Beltran out too now.

mister d wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:05 pm Beltran out too now.

UNDEFEATED!

When they do a 30 for 30 on this, they should play the piano part of Layla when they discuss these firings.

Yankees are lucky Beltran would never have done something like that when he was playing and "advising" there.

Agreed. Luckliy for you, the perfect storm of his willingness and Houston's lack of institutional ethics came together just one year later.

Probably a good thing Mahomes and Harden have stopped your fanbase from becoming New England south ; )