The Swamp

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:01 am**

The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:59 am
tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:58 am Hospitalizations are down, I think, if you take the US as a whole, as early hotspots that closed down hard like NY, NJ, WA, MD and a few others are seeing good results from the initial response. But if you take that group out and focus on the new hotspots that are are NOT responding with closures, hospitalizations are accelerating.
Yeah, I meant hospitalizations in the hotspots, not aggregate across the US.

Well, that's what makes it a hotspot, no?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:11 am**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:58 am Hospitalizations are down, I think, if you take the US as a whole, as early hotspots that closed down hard like NY, NJ, WA, MD and a few others are seeing good results from the initial response. But if you take that group out and focus on the new hotspots that are are NOT responding with closures, hospitalizations are accelerating.

As far as I can tell, it varies a lot by area. In Utah, cases have been way up. And the positive test rate is up, so it’s not increased testing; it’s definitely more cases. But I saw a graphic yesterday showing that ICU admissions are still really low. So who the fuck knows.

Apparently a lot more cases now are younger people? Which suggests maybe that more cases won’t lead to more serious cases?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:58 am**

tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:01 am
The Sybian wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:59 am
tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:58 am Hospitalizations are down, I think, if you take the US as a whole, as early hotspots that closed down hard like NY, NJ, WA, MD and a few others are seeing good results from the initial response. But if you take that group out and focus on the new hotspots that are are NOT responding with closures, hospitalizations are accelerating.
Yeah, I meant hospitalizations in the hotspots, not aggregate across the US.
Right. But the MAGA crew that is obfuscating this current problem are playing games with whole vs. hotposts in claiming things are fine. One benefit to the early closure of MD is that people here by and large do NOT complain about wearing masks in public indoor places like stores. Mask usage is 100% in those areas here, which is helping. We got used to it early.

Not to be repetitive, but the fact that Hogan has been so vocal and at times publicly taking on Trump has been huge here in MD.

Leadership matters.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:01 am**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:11 am
tennbengal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:58 am Hospitalizations are down, I think, if you take the US as a whole, as early hotspots that closed down hard like NY, NJ, WA, MD and a few others are seeing good results from the initial response. But if you take that group out and focus on the new hotspots that are are NOT responding with closures, hospitalizations are accelerating.
As far as I can tell, it varies a lot by area. In Utah, cases have been way up. And the positive test rate is up, so it’s not increased testing; it’s definitely more cases. But I saw a graphic yesterday showing that ICU admissions are still really low. So who the fuck knows.

Apparently a lot more cases now are younger people? Which suggests maybe that more cases won’t lead to more serious cases?

Our best friends in the hood had one of their daughters test positive this week. She has been like a lot of college age kids, running around South Carolina beaches the past 2 weeks, partying with various groups of friends. So far, looks like she's asymptomatic. Definitely not having happy hour with that crew for awhile.

(Meanwhile, we're on Day 6 of our self-quarantine after the Denver trip.)

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:32 am**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:11 amApparently a lot more cases now are younger people? Which suggests maybe that more cases won’t lead to more serious cases?

More confirmed cases are younger people because there's more access to testing. When it really blew up here in NJ, you couldn't get a test unless you were the stage right before a ventilator.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:50 am**

Also, old people are either now smartly at home, recovered, or dead.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:44 am**

I was at Costco this morning and didn't put my mask on when getting gas before going in the store. When the attendant came over to wipe down the keypad at the pump I was using, I was really embarrassed and turned away from him, covering my mouth and nose as best I could with the back of my hand and my arm.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:56 am**

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:44 am I was at Costco this morning and didn't put my mask on when getting gas before going in the store. When the attendant came over to wipe down the keypad at the pump I was using, I was really embarrassed and turned away from him, covering my mouth and nose as best I could with the back of my hand and my arm.

I forgot mine walking into a store the other day and ended up pulling my shirt up over my mouth the whole time. I looked more stupid than usual.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:06 am**

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:44 am I was at Costco this morning and didn't put my mask on when getting gas before going in the store. When the attendant came over to wipe down the keypad at the pump I was using, I was really embarrassed and turned away from him, covering my mouth and nose as best I could with the back of my hand and my arm.

how close were you to the attendant?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:14 am**

I wouldn't ever think to wear the mask just while gassing up.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:21 am**

Picking up a smoothie and they have chairs for waiting six feet apart. Douche nozzle is standing right in between two of them rendering those seats useless. People are standing in weird spots cause this guys clueless.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:29 am**

Giff wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:14 am I wouldn't ever think to wear the mask just while gassing up.

I wouldn't ever think to get out of the car just while gassing up.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:29 am**

rass wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:29 am
Giff wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:14 am I wouldn't ever think to wear the mask just while gassing up.
I wouldn't ever think to get out of the car just while gassing up.

Fucking jersey, man.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:13 pm**

mister d wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:32 am
Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:11 amApparently a lot more cases now are younger people? Which suggests maybe that more cases won’t lead to more serious cases?
More confirmed cases are younger people because there's more access to testing. When it really blew up here in NJ, you couldn't get a test unless you were the stage right before a ventilator.

I don't think that's the case here, though. Utah has always had a really low positive test rate and case fatality rate, suggesting that they weren't missing too many cases before. The past couple of weeks, the positive test rate has doubled. The number of tests has not really gone up that much.

But even in situations where the increase in confirmed cases is because of more testing, doesn't that seem to defeat the argument that the number of *cases* is increasing?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:52 pm**

Your initial comment was "more cases are young people" and my response was that young people were, atleast here, not being tested at all.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:15 pm**

Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:06 am
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:44 am I was at Costco this morning and didn't put my mask on when getting gas before going in the store. When the attendant came over to wipe down the keypad at the pump I was using, I was really embarrassed and turned away from him, covering my mouth and nose as best I could with the back of my hand and my arm.
how close were you to the attendant?

I was pumping gas and he was wiping off the pump, so within three feet.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:32 pm**

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:55 pm**

Literally no shame.

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:28 am**

Steve of phpBB wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:39 am
Square Rob wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:23 am It’s getting bad here. Like really bad. Franklin county, about 25 miles south of me and where ~10-15% of our work force at the plant lives, has over 750 positive cases with a population of only 31k. That’s 1 in 40 people, which makes it one of (if not the*) hottest counties in the country. Our active count at the plant has doubled in a week, and I’m afraid it might do that again this week as we’ve had a number of people start calling off with symptoms.

I had to run out and take care of some crap last weekend and would guess mask wearing was ~20% of the people I saw. I just feel for most Americans they won’t react to this shit until it hits them personally, which means we will likely have wave after wave in different hot spots all year, up until we have a vaccine. Basically exactly what Fauci and the other experts were saying from day one if we didn’t stick to extreme measures.

*ok, never mind, just top 50.
That’s stressful. Are the workers set up at your plant with decent spacing? Is that even possible there?

Almost impossible in certain areas. Management is doing a good job with masks and spacing. But once the summer temps arrived, people on the production floor not so much. Company has decided they don’t want to make masks required; I suspect due to liability fears. That said, we’ve got signage all over the place asking to wear them. We’re disinfecting all control/break/bath rooms every couple of hours.

I don’t know what’s the right thing to do. I want to work, and think we can minimize transmission with discipline. But I’ve got no idea what these folks are doing away from work. Given what I see elsewhere here in town, I assume not much in the way of masks and distancing.

It’s no surprise we started spiking 10-14 days after Memorial Day. That’s right about when people gave up on quarantining here.

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:29 am**

DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:15 pm
Brontoburglar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:06 am
DSafetyGuy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:44 am I was at Costco this morning and didn't put my mask on when getting gas before going in the store. When the attendant came over to wipe down the keypad at the pump I was using, I was really embarrassed and turned away from him, covering my mouth and nose as best I could with the back of my hand and my arm.
how close were you to the attendant?
I was pumping ... and he was wiping off ... feet.

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:45 pm**

Umm....Cruising Chubby's?

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:58 pm**

DaveInSeattle wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:45 pmUmm....Cruising Chubby's?

Far more embarrassing than getting a disease at a strip club in the first place.

Posted: **Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:20 pm**

A whole lotta NW Illinois white trash are starting to get nervous.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:16 am**

I forget where things are supposed to go, but...

https://thehill.com/changing-america/we ... wear-masks

Waaaay back in March/April I was making a fuss about the fact that it made zero sense for the CDC to be saying masks were only necessary for health care workers.

Fauci just confirmed what I thought: They only said that because they were worried about a run on masks for essential personnel. For as much credit as that guy is given, this approach to public health is borderline criminal.

There is a way to message things that would've prevented a run on N95, but encouraged everyone to wear some kind of face covering. History isn't going to be kind to anyone involved in the national management of this pandemic. Tens of thousands of people died due to this incompetence.

Happy Monday.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:34 am**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:16 amFauci just confirmed what I thought: They only said that because they were worried about a run on masks for essential personnel. For as much credit as that guy is given, this approach to public health is borderline criminal.

Unless he had purchasing power to proactively build the stockpile while the admin wasn't doing shit, I'm not sure what Fauci could have done. I imagine the most dire situation would have been full hospitals shutting down over staff infections which would have been the case if there was even more mass public hoarding.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:46 am**

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:34 am
Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:16 amFauci just confirmed what I thought: They only said that because they were worried about a run on masks for essential personnel. For as much credit as that guy is given, this approach to public health is borderline criminal.
Unless he had purchasing power to proactively build the stockpile while the admin wasn't doing shit, I'm not sure what Fauci could have done. I imagine the most dire situation would have been full hospitals shutting down over staff infections which would have been the case if there was even more mass public hoarding.

I agree with you, but they could have pushed for use of cloth masks, which didn't seem to become a thing until later. The problem I've seen, is so many people saying they refuse to wear masks because the CDC and WHO first said not to, so why believe them now? If we started wearing masks early, I think we would have drastically reduced the spread, but I also think people would have hoarded masks that were needed for hospitals. In the early days, I was calling friends with connections in construction to get masks, and another friend called every hardware store in the area and collected masks for hospitals. If the CDC was telling everyone to wear them, I don't know if we could have collected all those masks for the hospitals. And while the hospitals were in full panic mode, Jared refused to release the national stockpile to the states for distribution, as he thought it was "his" stockpile, and not for use by others. Fuck him. There needs to be a reckoning when this is all over.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:49 am**

They were protecting N95s. That has nothing to do with what the vast majority of Americans are wearing now. You can wear a silly bandana and that helps prevent the spread.

It was a really bad public health/messaging decision. Period.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:58 am**

Sure. But people just hoarded toilet paper and the federal government wouldn't enact the act that allowed companies to turn regular factories into ventilator factories. And I definitely remember early photos of health care workers wearing bananas because they didn't have enough masks.

So I can't fault the guy when you look at the scenario from a holistic perspective. He had to wade through a lot of shit under Trump and his fucked up administration.

And the mask doesn't prevent the spread of the virus. It prevents the spread of your germs getting onto others. So you know that would've been the meme had the situation been different.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 am**

We just don't live in a mask wearing culture. To say back in February that you should wear a mask that's not N95, even a silly bandana, would have been an over-reach.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 am**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:58 am
And the mask doesn't prevent the spread of the virus. It prevents the spread of your germs getting onto others. So you know that would've been the meme had the situation been different.

I don't really follow this logic.

What we're saying, at the end of the day, is that Fauci had to just eat the fact that Trump and the administration was SO BAD on the messaging and optics that we couldn't present a coherent and logical approach to the virus.

So take Fauci out of it, and my point stands. They lied to all of us about masks. I work on the comms field... There are ways to forcefully get the right message out, while preserving the higher end masks for those that need(ed) it.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:07 am**

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:49 am They were protecting N95s. That has nothing to do with what the vast majority of Americans are wearing now. You can wear a silly bandana and that helps prevent the spread.

It was a really bad public health/messaging decision. Period.

I get what you're saying, but like Johnnie said people were already starting to hoard the N95s and trying to buy and resell them at a profit. It was kind of a no-win situation for Fauci there.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:07 am**

degenerasian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 am We just don't live in a mask wearing culture. To say back in February that you should wear a mask that's not N95, even a silly bandana, would have been an over-reach.

Hard disagree.

Again, if they had presented a coherent message, millions of people were listening and would've tried to do the right thing.

You had entire city populations coming outside at 7pm to bang on pots. You don't think the majority of people (a lot of them listening to hour long press conferences from their governor/mayor) wouldn't have put on a bandana?

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:15 am**

Fauci would've been fired extremely early during the outbreak, so he had to tiptoe around Trump and make a calculated decision here.

One of those things was what he did -- withhold the face mask info -- and now we Monday morning quarterback everything else since it's months later and we can act like Americans would've acted different had he been completely truthful up front.

I mean Christ, Americans have literally grown tired of being under the thumb of the virus and shit is spiking because they just cannot live without going to bars and restaurants. Come on, man.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:20 am**

What Johnnie/Brian are saying ... if he announces masks are mandatory, this country isn't built for anything but a "what's best for me" mentality. So a material (pun) subset of the people wouldn't just say "medical grade is best but doctors and nurses need them so a bandana is fine enough for me", they'd need a lifetime supply of hospital quality, they'd have the money to get it and they'd use them to make their regular grocery and target runs with confidence while even more medical professionals got sick and died. There's no sacrifice here unless its someone else that's being sacrificed.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:24 am**

Yes that.

American culture is 'Fuck you. I got mine.' It honestly wasn't until people died where the rest went "Holy shit. I could die too! I better start listening to the experts."

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:31 am**

Johnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:24 am Yes that.

American culture is 'Fuck you. I got mine.' It honestly wasn't until people died where the rest went "Holy shit. I could die too! I better start listening to the experts."

Even then, someone had to die closely connected to you.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am**

Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:41 pm**

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I would say this about Denver, every store we went in, about 90 percent were wearing masks. And we bailed on going to Target, because they had an extremely long line outside for keeping numbers down in the store. So it wasn't, in my limited experience, a total shitshow for us.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:42 pm**

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

That's the problem here too. Locals are wearing masks almost everywhere and how I can tell is because mask usage in downtown Las Vegas is pretty high, but almost non-existent on the Strip.

Posted: **Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:43 pm**

P.D.X. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:59 am Boulder has actually been doing pretty well, despite the shitshow that Denver is. I'd guess mask-wearing is prob 60-70% among people just walking down the street. I went up to the national park this weekend and I'd guess mask wearing was like 5% (and clearly it was a lot of mid-westerners not letting a fake pandemic cancel their vacays.)

I don't know how crowded the national park scene is, but I have to say I'm not masking up in open air when I'm not around others. Patio for a beer? Absolutely. Walking the dogs? not doing it. That's not really unreasonable is it?

The Swamp

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